diesel cheaper to run?

comanche

So am thinking of changing to a diesel coz I am finding myself doing between 3200km and 4000km (2000, - 2500m) a month in a 1.4 megane @ 41mpg. But then I started thinking that even though a diesel cost more you get it back in the resale but

1. Coz more on tax coz of bigger engine
2. Cos more on insurace (unless with FBD) coz most companies charge on engine size
3. Diesels need more frequent oil changes
4. Are heavier on tyres coz of the big lump up the front
5. Heavier on brake pads coz of above

So give all of the above is buying a diesel a false economy (say a 1.9 focus or A4)? Do you need to be doing mega miles to save money?

HashSlinging

I comanche,

Your on the mark regarding mileage, I cover roughly the same every month in a TDi and find it a lot easier on the pocket, insurance will be steep since your moving up a good bit CC wise. so maybe go for a smaller PUG 307 1.6 Hdi/Audi A2 1.4 tdi might be the best starting place.

Con9903

Your current car sounds like it's going well economically. If you want fuel economy then go for an old 1.6 diesel mk2 jetta or golf, 60MPG anyone? I have a 1.6 TD golf and it does 55MPG. Plus the 1.6 engine is bulletproof. My father had one with 300,000 miles on the clock and it was still flying.

Moanin

With the mileage that you are doing you will save in the long run.

1.Diesel will do more mileage long-term
2.With the miles you are doing you will do 25k average per year which is normal on a diesel but high on a petrol when you go to sell it.
3.On the matter of service I have an a4 1.9tdi and it needs to be serviced every 20k.
4.Regarding economy, I fill mine for €60 and get on average 600-620 out of a tank.This a mix of city and country driving.

Defo go for diesel and if your worried about insurance on a high engine go for the smaller peugeot 1.4hdi of Ford focus 1.6tdci or renault meagne 1.5dci

HashSlinging

I think the vag 1.4tdi returns something around 70mpg as does the pug 1.4 HDi.

HashSlinging

Moanin wrote:

or renault meagne 1.5dci

Great car, esp in the 100bhp guise.

ds20prefecture

comanche wrote:

1. Coz more on tax coz of bigger engine
2. Cos more on insurace (unless with FBD) coz most companies charge on engine size
3. Diesels need more frequent oil changes
4. Are heavier on tyres coz of the big lump up the front
5. Heavier on brake pads coz of above

1. Definitely higher tax, even if you go for the 1.5 diesel from Renault. The smaller 1.4 diesels will only be fitted to smaller cars than your megane. The Peugeot 1.6 (fitted to Fords, some Mazdas, Peugeots and Citroëns) is an excellent engine, as is the small 1.5 Renault. Having said that, the difference is only about €100 per year, not much compared to your fuel bill.
2. Insurance companies generally go on BHP. the Peugeot is 90bhp, same as a good modern 1.4 petrol.
3. The interval should be much less than 10000 miles, or the same as your Megane - its not that expensive anyway, particularly if you do it yourself.
4. Modern small diesel engines are only marginally heavier than their petrol equivalents. With the amount of foam and safety equipment in modern cars you won't notice the difference in a small diesel.
5. A modern diesel is no heavier on brake pads.

So overall there's not much difference in these elements.

My question would be if you are averaging 40mpg from your megane, and a modern diesel will return 55mpg, what are your savings over the life of the car? If you keep the car for 3 years, you'll do about 75000 miles. This is a fuel bill of 6136 litres (€6750) of diesel or 8437l of petrol (€9280) Thats a saving of €2530. Assuming you're changing the car anyway, you'll pay a €1000 to €1500 premium over the equivalent petrol. You should not lose much or any of this difference over the life of the car, so I would say with your mileage, a small diesel will definitely be cheaper to run.

It will also be more powerful in terms of overtaking oomph, but more noisy and a less pleasant noise than the petrol.

If you're looking at new cars, the Octavia, Focus and Megane are good choices.

BrianD3

ds20prefecture wrote:

1. Definitely higher tax, even if you go for the 1.5 diesel from Renault. The smaller 1.4 diesels will only be fitted to smaller cars than your megane.

There's also the 1.4 diesel (90 bhp) fitted to the Toyota Corolla which is Megane sized. If the OP is looking at 2nd hand vehicle this may not be an option as it's only newly introduced and any that come onto the 2nd hand market are likely to be snapped up instantly. The Pug 307 is also available used fitted with a 1.4 diesel (68 bhp IIRC) but I think this has been superceded by the 1.6 for a couple of years and with that power output in a heavyish car its v. slow.

comanche

Well to be honest I want to go higher than my current 98bhp, altough I find it nippy (thanks to the 16v engine) I find that it struggles at higher speeds - there's no such thing at cruising on the motorway, you're above 3000rpm in 5th @ 120kmph, and wouldn't mind getting something with six gears.

So I was thinking of maybe a 130bhp 1.9 A4 or passat, so do the running cost on something like that offer savings?

Litcagral

Re Insurance Costs

The engine size only really makes a difference if you are young and inexperienced. When you move on a bit it doesn't really matter. My insurance for a 3 litre diesel is €600 PA. (I'm in my 30s).

Thomas_S_Hunterson

sorry for highjackin, but does having a Turbodiesel make much of a difference as opposed to a naturally aspirated diesel in terms of insurance costs for a new driver
Is it treated the same way as a Turbo petrol engine?

maidhc

comanche wrote:

Well to be honest I want to go higher than my current 98bhp, altough I find it nippy (thanks to the 16v engine) I find that it struggles at higher speeds -

I think you will find that a 100bhp diesel will be far better at higher speeds than a 100bhp petrol due to it having far more torque.

@sean_keevey: I think the simple answer is no, especially when any normally aspirated diesel is going to be an antique at this stage.

Con9903

sean_keevey wrote:

sorry for highjackin, but does having a Turbodiesel make much of a difference as opposed to a naturally aspirated diesel in terms of insurance costs for a new driver
Is it treated the same way as a Turbo petrol engine?

No it's not treated the same as turbo/N/A petrol costs. There was virtually no difference in 1.6 N/A and 1.6 TD quote with regards to my cars policy.

HashSlinging

ds20prefecture wrote:

but more noisy and a less pleasant noise than the petrol.

Have to disagree on this point, I think the diesel's (vag tdi) are as quiet or even quieter as petrol esp when cruising at 120kph, even the VW caddy that I had for a while was very quiet on the road. The A4 is a good choice, with quattro of course. Also theres someone selling a BMW 320D on the motors for sale section.

Johnny Storm

I hope this is on topic. How did diesel get to be the same price as petrol?

Thomas_S_Hunterson

It's called a kartel

maidhc

HashSlinging wrote:

Have to disagree on this point, I think the diesel's (vag tdi) are as quiet or even quieter as petrol esp when cruising at 120kph, even the VW caddy that I had for a while was very quiet on the road. The A4 is a good choice, with quattro of course. Also theres someone selling a BMW 320D on the motors for sale section.

...and the VAG diesels are definately the noiseist of the bunch at the moment. The Toyota D4Ds, and the Ford TDCis sound like petrols even at tickover once they are warm.

I'm not sure why you would want to go for a quattro though, the extra weight/power requirments/fuel consumption hardly makes it worth while for most people.

ds20prefecture

Well I have a VAG 1.6 petrol, and I've driven both old and new 1.9 VAG TDis. The TDis are good for diesels, but are just louder and more vibratory (is that a word?) than the petrol. I've driven the Peugeot 2.0HDI in both Citroen and Volvo guises. Very impressive, but still noticable. The 320d is even louder than the VAG 1.9 - but it is a very impressive engine.

HashSlinging

Hmm I must be lucky then and have driven some of the quietest VAG diesels around. I can only go with my personal experience from driving thousands of miles per month, you seem to have vastly superior experience with diesel technology so I stand corrected.

The quattro system is great, makes a huge difference to the A4 chassis, which is fairly ****e. IMO from driving one (180 bhp Tdi), its a way better driving experience than front wheel drive. So what your losing on mpg range you make up on smiles, which is also important.

Litcagral

Johnny Storm wrote:

I hope this is on topic. How did diesel get to be the same price as petrol?

It's usually relatively more expensive in winter - something to do with it's close connection with demand for home heating oil.

maidhc

Litcagral wrote:

It's usually relatively more expensive in winter - something to do with it's close connection with demand for home heating oil.

Most home heating boilers can run on diesel, but for obvious reasons people put in marked diesel rather than the stuff with tax. Cant see it being the reason for diesel getting so expensive though, especially when it should be cheaper to refine...

ds20prefecture

HashSlinging wrote:

Hmm I must be lucky then and have driven some of the quietest VAG diesels around. I can only go with my personal experience from driving thousands of miles per month, you seem to have vastly superior experience with diesel technology so I stand corrected.

No need to get snippy.

maidhc

HashSlinging wrote:

Hmm I must be lucky then and have driven some of the quietest VAG diesels around. I can only go with my personal experience from driving thousands of miles per month, you seem to have vastly superior experience with diesel technology so I stand corrected.

Certainly of three cars I have often driven including an 06 Passat 1.9, an 03 Focus TDCI, and an 02 Avensis D4D the passat is by far the noisiest. It is grand though, and isnt something which would bother me personally, and it is as quiet as the rest once you build up a bit of speed.