Republican Riots in O'Connell Street

Dilly1

I never even bother going into town on Easter Sunday anymore after witnessing what the Republicans get upto. We were drinking in a pub and
group of them came in wearing their Republican Sinn Fein badges and scarfs. They had a few beers and then attacked some African students, heabutting one of them while shouting " get out of our country".

On Saturday night, the tracksuit wearing white-trash that were rioting turned on each other after a lot of drinking, and there was a mad punch up. the cops didnt bother breaking it up, i suppose they decided "let the idiots at it"
hopefully they will kill each other. I saw a girl get knocked out and a guy get hit with a bottle, and this was about 6 hours after the riot had finished.
These guys say "brits out" and all that other rubbish, but they all act like the National Front and English Football Hooligans.

Nice country we live in eh !

carveone

There is a difference between me not caring about the unionist march and any march being aloud to go ahead if there was fear of violence.

So no I don't care about them marching. I really don't, but if there is a threat to public safety gardai should not allow it.

Dunno, maybe the government felt that in modern inclusive Ireland people wouldn't really mind. Heck, maybe the thought was that a large public presence should have damped down the knacker element. Of course, the thugs were all clustered together.

There's always someone offended by something. Remember 93/94 and all those offended at condoms being sold in Virgin? Remember the abusive protests when sex ed started in schools; people screaming that teachers were pedos and molestors and punching some of them?
Who would even think about that stuff any more?

It wasn't confined to the City Centre either. I was standing opposite Sutton train station at 5pm when some scumbags in a passing white transit knocked me over with something thrown from the van that bounced off my head. Lucky I was wearing a woolly hat. Not injured but have a mildy sore head. Was really pissed me off is that there was a stream of traffic passing - noone even slowed down. One guy walked passed, locked in mobile phone conversation. Too busy selling houses and looking cool in mercs I suppose.
(Sorry, had to get that off my chest. I'm so angry that noone cared enough to even get a reg plate for me).

dabhoys

The political system at the time in the north was completely unbalanced and unfair. Hence why that government was devolved by the British government. There was alot more to it then them banning them on the ground of public safety. They didn't want to deal with the situation. The protests of the 60's in the north was a totally different time and different situation.

The catholics had no other choice. The marches on saturday had about a million other ways they could have met with MacDowell other then marching down dublin.

Intimadation shouldn't stop the march common sense should. But I dont care about the march and I don't care about the scumbag rioters. I don't agree with what they did.

Meh wrote:

Actually, I'm well aware of my history. The loyalists threatened and used violence against the civil rights marchers, and the unionist establishment used the loyalist violence as a pretext to ban the civil rights marches on the grounds of "public safety". And you're saying that this is fine, and that using intimidation and threats to prevent peaceful protests is just fine by you, and that democratic governments should give in to this tactic.

macguch

yes indeed the riots were terrible but how far would a "love Eire" march get walking by Belfast hall.Its just a pity that some inner city scumbags have been allowed hijack the Republican movement in an attempt to "have a bit of a laugh".I also woned how many of these "republicans" learned Irish in school or have ever read up on Irish history,culture etc.

Zombrex

dabhoys wrote:

The protests of the 60's in the north was a totally different time and different situation.

Dahboy, you are missing the point. In a democracy no government or group should be allowed say that one march is more important than another march.

You think the Catholic civil rights marches were important in the 60s, and should not have been banned because they might incite the Unionists to violence. I agree.

But you can't then decide that this march just isn't that important, or relivent, so its ok to block it because it might invite the local scumbags of Dublin to riot.

dabhoys wrote:

Intimadation shouldn't stop the march common sense should.

But who's common sense? Yours? The governments? The people who don't agree or care about the march?

I'm pretty sure the "common sense" argument has been used a number of times in the North to attempt to stop Catholics marching for civil rights, because common sense said their would be trouble.

Freelancer

dabhoys wrote:

I'm not saying to ban this march. If it had been an abortion rally on sat, I couldn't care about them marching. But if the gardai felt that this would lead to the harm of the general public then the parade shouldn't be aloud to going ahead.

There is a difference between me not caring about the unionist march and any march being aloud to go ahead if there was fear of violence.

So no I don't care about them marching. I really don't, but if there is a threat to public safety gardai should not allow it.

I think this is a valid study of Gardai reaction, the no one predicted the level of violence or that there would be a violent protest.

http://indymedia.ie/article/74528#comments

The Garda intelligence reports in advance of the march would have told them that Sinn Fein were trying as hard as they could to keep their members away from the protest - I believe that they announced that anybody who was seen in the city centre on the day would be banned from their functions for 6 months and this largely worked, I only saw a single shinner in the city throughout the day and he was obviously there as a sanctioned observer and remained behind police lines (where I also inadvertently found myself). Similarly, the Gardai know that the 32CSM had called off their protest and were not interested in provoking a confrontation. While Republican Sinn Fein did organise a counter protest, the gardai pretty much know what their membership has for breakfast and are well aware that they are a tiny organisation based around a small number of traditional republican families who are completely incapable of mobilising more than a few dozen die-hards. The 4th significant Republican group, the IRSP, are virtually non-existant in the south and are incapable of organising anything. Besides the Gardai were well aware of the fact that the march was intended as a provocation, a trap for republicans to fall into and that the various republican groups were intelligent enough to recognise this and avoid falling into it.

The other political current that regularly causes the Gardai security worries in Dublin is the anarchists and the Gardai would have been well aware that the anarchist organisations were not at all interested in stoking the flames of sectarianism. The Gardai read indymedia for their intelligence like the rest of us and they would have been aware that the anarchists were not planning trouble for this march - being more interested in taking the piss out of the bigots than getting into a ruck with them. They knew that neither the WSM nor Organise! the two formal anarchist organisations in the country were simply not going to get involved in organising a protest that would be seen as nationalist and sectarian. Thus the Gardai came to the same assesment that I did - no political organisations who were capable of causing trouble were mobilising to oppose the loyalist march and they were right. From the long years that I have spent attending and covering protests I recognise a lot of faces from these various groups and they simply weren't involved in the confrontation - those whom I saw were bemusedly observing the whole thing from the sidelines. The people who are claiming that the events were orchestrated by this or that political group are simply liars who are pursuing various agendas and cynically using the riot to attack their political opponents. From the fantasist pathological liars of the Sunday Independent to the PDs, every reactionary in the country will use any such event as this to smear their opponents and they can be safely ignored by anybody who is seeking to understand these events.

Intelligent critical analysis from indymedia, people remain calm......

So as you can see, it would be perfectly reasonable and understandable for the Gardai to police this event and beforehand work under the assumption that any counter demo was going to be peaceful.

The_Minister

dabhoys wrote:

So in your opinion what can this irish government do to help them?

Its not my opinion thats what they want.
The government can put pressure on Sinn Fein to put pressure on the IRA tosay where thay hid the bodies, so the families can get closure.

astro

macguch wrote:

yes indeed the riots were terrible but how far would a "love Eire" march get walking by Belfast hall.Its just a pity that some inner city scumbags have been allowed hijack the Republican movement in an attempt to "have a bit of a laugh".I also woned how many of these "republicans" learned Irish in school or have ever read up on Irish history,culture etc.

A lot of people from the inner city are not scumbags and let us not forget that many of the people involved were foreigners out to take advantage. This is evident as percentage of people being arrested were foreigners caught looting.

Snickers Man

macguch wrote:

yes indeed the riots were terrible but how far would a "love Eire" march get walking by Belfast hall.Its just a pity that some inner city scumbags have been allowed hijack the Republican movement

There have been plenty of republican marches in Belfast.
and there is an annual Bloody Sunday commemoration in London.

Which usually passes off peacefully because it's properly policed.

The Gardai were an embarrassment on Saturday. All that riot gear and they let a bunch of CIRA low-lifes and provo floating voters run rings around them.

What happened to spirit of the great victory over the unwashed hordes at the British Embassy back in 81? Now that was a baton charge and a half.

Dilly1

astro wrote:

A lot of people from the inner city are not scumbags and let us not forget that many of the people involved were foreigners out to take advantage. This is evident as percentage of people being arrested were foreigners caught looting.

Yeah lets blame the foreigners !!
Actually I think the foreign staff in Schuh started the whole thing !! :rolleyes:


I saw lots of trouble right into the night, and they were all scumbags
from Dublin. they even started on their own when they got drunk.

dabhoys

Deep down I think the Kieser Chiefs knew alot more then they let on There to blame for the whole thing to be honest

Dilly1 wrote:

Yeah lets blame the foreigners !!
Actually I think the foreign staff in Schuh started the whole thing !! :rolleyes:


I saw lots of trouble right into the night, and they were all scumbags
from Dublin. they even started on their own when they got drunk.

Hobbes

astro wrote:

This is evident as percentage of people being arrested were foreigners caught looting.

Where did you pick that fact up from?

lostexpectation

there only 3 out of the fourteen charged

you definitly can see what looks one lithuanina man trying to loot footlocker

although you could nearly include foreigner and inner city as being the same people these days?

Freelancer

lostexpectation wrote:

there only 3 out of the fourteen charged

you definitly can see what looks one lithuanina man trying to loot footlocker

although you could nearly include foreigner and inner city as being the same people these days?

How on earth can you tell if someone is lithuaninan just by looking?

lostexpectation

pitfalls pitfalls, eh a lithuianian man was charged for looting, and it looked like he got caught redhanded, so im guessing, I've done this before I could have said Eastern european or african or something but I hazarded a guess at particular country but I reckon that better then ascribing him to areas/countries that don't really exist like AFRICA and EASTERN EUROPE

astro

astro wrote:

A lot of people from the inner city are not scumbags

most lets say 99.99% arent at a rough guess

and let us not forget that many of the people involved were foreigners out to take advantage. This is evident as percentage of people being arrested were foreigners caught looting.

Rubbish

2 non nationals were caught looting.
The gurriers throwing paving stones and burning cars were not non nationals

rsynnott

The Corinthian wrote:

Or if you want to save yourself the trouble of reading said "good and honest coverage", the punchline is that global Capitalism is apparantly to blame for the riots :rolleyes:

But of course! What else?

lostexpectation

whats the story with this,


Loyalist bandsmen returning from Saturday’s Love Ulster rally ran riot in Portadown, Co Armagh.
The PSNI said six police officers had been injured. The force said the violence could have been triggered by the riots on the streets of Dublin that afternoon.
Sinn Féin councillor, Brian McKeown, said loyalist bandsmen had attacked taxi ranks owned by Catholic drivers.
“It seems that bandsmen returning from the march chose to make their way and attack taxi drivers who are known to be Catholic. It was a disgraceful act,” he said.
“A loyalist crowd attacked people leaving two Catholic-owned premises in Woodhouse Street. Several people were assaulted and beaten by the mob, and a number of others were struck by bottles and other missiles thrown by the attackers.
“The loyalist crowd, which included several loyalist bandsmen who had earlier been in Dublin at the Love Ulster rally, is believed to have emerged from premises in the town centre where a loyalist function was being held.
“A number of Catholic-owned taxis were also subjected to attack.”
Loyalists ran riot in the centre of Portadown firing stones, bottles and bricks at the PSNI, taxis and nationalists.
At one stage, a policewoman was dragged to the ground by a group of men, who kicked and punched her repeatedly.
The PSNI said another officer had suffered serious facial injuries in a suspected hammer attack. Two men were later arrested.
It is believed that up to 100 loyalists emerged from a bar in the town at around 1am yesterday.
David Simpson, the Democratic Unionist Party MP for Upper Bann, said he had seen the disorder in the town. He said the PSNI had offered only one explanation for the outbreak: “They could only think it was sparked off by what happened in Dublin,” he said.
Mr Simpson said he was “horrified” by the street fighting. He claimed nationalists had started the trouble before loyalists, spilling out at pub closing-times, became involved. The rioting was concentrated in the High Street and Edward Street areas.
A 30-year-old man was charged with disorderly behaviour and assault. He is to appear at Craigavon Magistrates’ Court next month.
A 34-year-old man was arrested but released on bail while the PSNI carries out further inquiries.

clonycavanman

There is an appalling culture in Northern Ireland of ritualised, provocative marches that has done enormous harm to that society.Do not import that culture into the south. Realise there is an agenda of hostility to your State, founded by Irish rebels, which has become prosperous and stable. 'Love Ulster' is an attempt to bring the conflicts of Northern Ireland southwards. Reject the attempt.

St_Crispin

dabhoys wrote:

I'm sorry I can't just tune out of the troubles that my family have had to go through. It part of my heritage and where I come from. I'm not going to forget that my grandad was not aloud to get work because he was catholic. I'm not going to forget my great grandfather lost his leg fighting for the very freedom you enjoy today. Excuse me but I'm not just going to forget it.

I'm all for peace and I've no problem with the march and I really dont care. I find the whole situation laughable. The gardai and the government signed themselves up for the mess. The gardai shouldn't be worried bout popularity if they feel that there is a threat to the general public the march shouldn't be aloud to go ahead. Wether it be an abortion rally, gay rights or whatever. The gardai should do what is in the best interests for the public. Not there popularity.

Any government with there head screwed on would stop a demonstration or organised protest that they deemed to be dangerous to the general public. Resources has nothing to do with it. I won't accept civil rights as a reason to be aloud to march when its obvious there is going to be trouble. Why did they have to march in dublin? I mean when did the last 'loyalist' die from the troubles in Dublin? In there views dublin isn't the capital either. Why didn't they march in london? I don't get it. The whole thing makes no sense. How is it their Civil right of this country to march here if they don't even consider themselves irish???

The people on sat don't represent me and my opinions or the opinions of many other people like me. They we're mostly a bunch of knackers looking to cause trouble. Sure 3 of the 40 arrested weren't even Irish!!!! Hmm wat does that say.

I also don't believe for one second that Sinn Fein had anything to do with the orchestration of any of sat events.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the deputy director (or deputy something) of SF was at the counter protest in Dublin. I have no idea if he was involved in the rioting, or if he tried to stop it. I just remember reading about his presence.

If you want peace in the north forget about your grandfather. Might sound harsh, but if ppl keep bring up the past, then nothing will ever get sorted.

For what it matters, my grandfather fought from 1916 onwards. He always said that the IRA in the north weren't the IRA. The ira was disbanded after the civil war and never called up again. The guys in the north were "just gurriers with guns". They used tactics and attacked targets the the original IRA would have found repulsive.

There are two countries on this island. The unionist recognise that (unlike the republicans who actually only recognise the british government. As far as they are concerned the government in the republic is an illegal organisation with no authority).
Both countries have rights regarding the politics of the north. The anglo irish agreement recognises this. Therefore if the the unionists with to petition anyone about their problems it does make sense to bring it to the attention of both (legal) governments.

dabhoys wrote:

I don't consider the 6 counties part of the UK. I had this very same debate about the queen making a royal visit a few years ago and its the same principal.

The 6 counties are in the UK. The majority of the ppl in the 6 counties are in favor of it staying that way. I have no idea why you think they aren't. Every map says they are. Both governments think they are. And the majority of the population think so too.
And it has nothing to do with being irish. Everyone in the north is irish. They are also british. Just like being in the united kingdom makes a scotsman any less scottish (I'd like to see anyone walk into a bar in glasgow and tell the patrons that they're not reall scotsmen). Ppl get political and ethnic identity mixed up. And others use it to their advantage.

St_Crispin

lostexpectation, do you have a source for that story? Especially the stuff that says it was loyalist protesters from dublin that did it.

And ppl, why does everyone insist on quoting indymedia as a valid news source? It isn't. There have been many occasions where they have been shown to have published stories which were outright fabrications. I have no doubt that a lot of actual news that wouldn't make it into the mainstream does get published there. But so does an awful lot of rubbish. I have to take anything that I see published there with a pinch of salt. Please try to use regular vetted news sources.

pete

jeffrey donaldson, on Q&A wrote:

I would rather have walked down O'Connell Street than have the way forced by hundreds of Gardaí

garvaghy road, anyone?

oh and apparently Sinn Fein are to identify any of their supporters who took part and expel them from the party.

I presume the DUP did the same after the Drumcree riots?

gurramok

pete wrote:

garvaghy road, anyone?

oh and apparently Sinn Fein are to identify any of their supporters who took part and expel them from the party.

I presume the DUP did the same after the Drumcree riots?

Did you see the long front banner of the Orange march on Saturday?

It was shown on UTV and BBC NI news this evening, it read the following..
'If we can walk in Dublin, we can walk the queens highway'

Further proof that it was not a victims march, it was politicised from the start by 6 sectarian Orange bands with Mr Frazer at the helm.

oscarBravo

dabhoys wrote:

I'm not saying to ban this march... the parade shouldn't be aloud to going ahead.

What was it Brian Lenihan said about the futility of consistency?

Begs

gurramok wrote:

Did you see the long front banner of the Orange march on Saturday?

It was shown on UTV and BBC NI news this evening, it read the following..
'If we can walk in Dublin, we can walk the queens highway'

Further proof that it was not a victims march, it was politicised from the start by 6 sectarian Orange bands with Mr Frazer at the helm.

That really does show that there were hidden agenda's to be displayed on the day - not a surprise at all. But that doesn't make the violence in any way acceptable. It may though have a bearing on the validity of the march, ie. submitting an application to the authorities labelling it as a victims march and then hijacking it for other means? Regardless they didn't march...

The thing is this walking the queens highway rubbish comes from being refused a handful of marches out of thousands each year, and the reason that those are refused is not sectarian, political, racist, republican or the like. It is simply a local social issue, that people were being held prisoners in their streets for hours on end whilst these marches passed, and eventually said, quite rightly, we've had enough and claimed their own civil rights to go about their day to day business. But as the residents group contained a SF member they OO refused to take part in any talks.

And these people call themselves christians - there's not a christian bone in their bodies!

Voipjunkie

St_Crispin wrote:

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the deputy director (or deputy something) of SF was at the counter protest in Dublin. I have no idea if he was involved in the rioting, or if he tried to stop it. I just remember reading about his presence. .

No you are wrong the person you are reffering to is Des Dalton who is the Vice President Of Republican Sinn Fein which is a completely different organisation to Sinn Fein( provisional)

St_Crispin wrote:

If you want peace in the north forget about your grandfather. Might sound harsh, but if ppl keep bring up the past, then nothing will ever get sorted.

For what it matters, my grandfather fought from 1916 onwards. He always said that the IRA in the north weren't the IRA. The ira was disbanded after the civil war and never called up again. The guys in the north were "just gurriers with guns". They used tactics and attacked targets the the original IRA would have found repulsive. .

Well I would never suggest forgetting anyones Grandfather or Grandmothers either
But your Grandfather was wrong the IRA was not disbanded after the civil war

As for the IRA during the period 1919- 1922 they were no angels either I suggest you read the book the good old IRA for an insight into actions carried out by the (old) IRA

St_Crispin wrote:

There are two countries on this island. The unionist recognise that (unlike the republicans who actually only recognise the british government. As far as they are concerned the government in the republic is an illegal organisation with no authority)..

What republicans are you talking about FF describe themselves as The Republican Party SF describe themselves as Republicans Micheal Mcdowell and the PDs describes themselves as an Irish Republicans. The SDLP recently described themselves as the Real Republican party in the North none of these parties as far as I am aware hold the position you have suggested.

The only parties that I am aware of with those views are the party RSF or perhaps the 32csc and maybe the IRSP. Are these the "republicans you are refering to .

Please be more specific than just using the term Republican and presuming it is obvious who you are speaking about.

Hobbes

St_Crispin wrote:

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the deputy director (or deputy something) of SF was at the counter protest in Dublin. I have no idea if he was involved in the rioting, or if he tried to stop it. I just remember reading about his presence.

He wasn't in the rioting, and he was there as an observer. As all SF members were told well before the event started that if any SF was seen in Town that day (let alone rioting) they would be banned from the party for at least 6 months.

As far as they are concerned the government in the republic is an illegal organisation with no authority)..

rofl. If it had no authority why ask for permission from the government to march?

Prophecy Man

breandan wrote:

I think the violence against public property and innocent individauls was bang out of order and should be condemned outright.
But as for the orange scum and the gardai who were willing to protect them as they engaged in their fascist behaviour, well done the rioters I say.
I'll admit that it did play into the hands of the march organizers and Loyalism in general but so what, the cause of Ireland has waited 800 years so another few wont make much difference in the grand scheme of things.
The orange fascist wanted to be allowed march through the streets of Dublin, the Irish establishment gave permission and instructed the Gardai to allow them to engage in their vile activities.

A splinter group of Irish Republicanism apposed this.
They took to the streets and confronted the fascists and those who would protected the fascists and they won.

Just came across this forum today - very good.

I agree that this march had to be stopped. Thank God that someone protected what our ancestors died for although I am dissappointed that it took scum to do so. Shame on all the political parties for allowing the orange march go ahead, and that includes Sinn Fein.

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are Pro British Pro Unionist parties - De Valera and Collins must be turning in their graves. Its all about money nowadays and everyone is forgetting their roots. We should unite together with a united ireland in mind. Personally I dont think I will ever vote again. Not only because of the lact patriotism but also down to the fact that Bertie , Enda and Michael and other are pussyfooting around Tony Blair and George Bush.

It was an Irsh government who was doing the same thing with Maggie Thatcher and she turned turned out to be responsible for crimes against humanity as she sent weapons and support to General Pinochet of Chile. Come on Irish people wake up and make these political parties stand up for what is right not what lines their own pockets.

Sand

I think its good to see the true face of Republicans. Im not even talking about their voters who were out in force on Saturday. Republicans have repeatedly made clear that any symbol or exercise of political rights or freedoms by Protestants is a gross provocation. What they consider to be a gross provocation is a legal, approved victims march flying a Union Jack going through Dublin. Not all republicans will publicly endorse the rioting, but theyre all happy that the rioting took place and the march was curtailed to marching past the Dail instead of the GPO. They have repeatedly argued that marches should only be allowed if they agree with the message of the marchers. The reasoning behind any decision to not oppose the march is tactical, fearing to fall into a Unionist trap - never actually accepting that they have a right to march, just accepting it would be damaging to try and stop them publically.

So the next time Republicans talk about parity of esteem, no heirarchy of victims or indeed that Northern Protestants have nothing to fear in a United Ireland, remember its complete crap. The continued existence of Northern Protestants and their culture or political movements is deeply provocative to Republicans and they consistently indulge in their base hatreds. From deliberate atrocities like Enniskillen, to attacks on victims marches. We also saw hints of their bitter hatreds in their reaction to the SDLP upsetting their predicted victory on the back of Protestant votes.

The whole Republican idealogy is deeply hateful and sectarian. Its adherents might claim Republicanism doesnt imply hatred of Protestants, shure wasnt Wolfe Tone a Prod? In fairness, the KKK and White supremacist groups claim (publically) that their idealogy is about White pride, not Black hatred. Who believes that? Fintan O Toole (A man I consider to be a complete moron, but a stopped clock is right twice a day) mentioned today in the Irish Times that the IRA attacked Northern Protestant socialists trying to visit Wolfe Tones grave at Bodenstown. Guess that must have been provocative too. Also noted that Charlie Bird is Protestant, something I didnt know, but it does explain why in the warped idealogy of Republicanism that he comes under the description "orange bastard" and was beaten. He must have been provocative too.

Saturdays events are the best argument for the border - we dont need the level of political discourse we saw on Saturday seeping into our political system here. Scumbags+Plastic Celtic nationalism is not something we need.

Cork

Prophecy Man wrote:

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are Pro British Pro Unionist parties - De Valera and Collins must be turning in their graves. Its all about money nowadays and everyone is forgetting their roots. We should unite together with a united ireland in mind.

The future of NI is in the hands of those living in NI.

Trubalisim and bigotry will not bring a United Ireland.

Intolerace is ugly and we saw it on Saturday.

Thugs attacking the Garda.

Dev would not be impressed