Republican Riots in O'Connell Street

Prophecy Man

Prophecy Man wrote:

I agree that this march had to be stopped. Thank God that someone protected what our ancestors died for although I am dissappointed that it took scum to do so. Shame on all the political parties for allowing the orange march go ahead, and that includes Sinn Fein.

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are Pro British Pro Unionist parties - De Valera and Collins must be turning in their graves. Its all about money nowadays and everyone is forgetting their roots. We should unite together with a united ireland in mind. Personally I dont think I will ever vote again. Not only because of the lact patriotism but also down to the fact that Bertie , Enda and Michael and other are pussyfooting around Tony Blair and George Bush.

The armchair republican test...

1. Do you have more than 4 Wolfe Tones albums?

2. Have you now, or ever had, a teeshirt with Bobby Sands picture on it?

3. Do you have facial hair, to wit a tache or beard.

4. Does 'Some Mother's Son' give you a lump in the throat?

5. Did you think the 'you are now entering free Derry' sign was soooo daring?

is_that_so

Prophecy Man wrote:

Just came across this forum today - very good.

I agree that this march had to be stopped. Thank God that someone protected what our ancestors died for although I am dissappointed that it took scum to do so. Shame on all the political parties for allowing the orange march go ahead, and that includes Sinn Fein.

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are Pro British Pro Unionist parties - De Valera and Collins must be turning in their graves. Its all about money nowadays and everyone is forgetting their roots. We should unite together with a united ireland in mind. Personally I dont think I will ever vote again. Not only because of the lact patriotism but also down to the fact that Bertie , Enda and Michael and other are pussyfooting around Tony Blair and George Bush.

It was an Irsh government who was doing the same thing with Maggie Thatcher and she turned turned out to be responsible for crimes against humanity as she sent weapons and support to General Pinochet of Chile. Come on Irish people wake up and make these political parties stand up for what is right not what lines their own pockets.

Hmm Maggie Thatcher, Pinochet, Bush and Blair. Wonder if there is anyone else we can add to the list of people, to blame? I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Hagar

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054896630

catholicireland

Not all republicans will publicly endorse the rioting, but theyre all happy that the rioting took place and the march was curtailed to marching past the Dail instead of the GPO. They have repeatedly argued that marches should only be allowed if they agree with the message of the marchers. The reasoning behind any decision to not oppose the march is tactical, fearing to fall into a Unionist trap - never actually accepting that they have a right to march, just accepting it would be damaging to try and stop them publically.

What a load of rubbish. There damed if they do and damed if they dont. People like you just take every opportunity to attack republicans. I bet you think 9/11 was caused by republicans.

btw, when you talk about 'republicans', do you also include the current party in power - fianna fail. Cos they are republican if you dont know.Please be more specific when you use the word republicans.

The whole Republican idealogy is deeply hateful and sectarian

The "whole"?? see my above point.
You sound like Ian Paisley btw, I remember a remark he made about our president.

Your whole arguement sand is one big sad rant. You entirely focus on one side of the arguement while not even once mentioning the other, who is just, if not more, responsible for hatered. You tar an entire group of Irish people who are republican as one, not realising that there is more then one type of republican. You appear to be firmly on one side - and this makes what you say biased and not very factual.

Stromecek

Why Minister McDowell, who lets face it seems pretty good at insider knowledge of criminal and political activities, bank robberies etc claimed he didn't forsee any violence, even after RSF declared a counter demonstration?
two nefarious, extremist, anti belfast agreement factions coming within yards of each other, it doesn't it take a genius to work out there'd be violence.
Of course one aim the organisers of the "love Ulster" was to provoke a reaction reflected in their decision to carry a placard depicting a man suspected of being involved in the Dublin bombings and the participation of the blantantly sectarian, racist orange order and loyalists bands and of course the blinkered few were going to react violentley, directly or indirectly recruting angry, non represented, young hoods to the cause
What I wonder is:
Is there an obvious political agenda at work? from the lack of policing, to the media reaction, the goverments supposed lack of foresight and warning in contrast to previous marches eg Mayday (where plenty of gardai were on hand to beat people of the street)
Is it another stick to beat Sinn Fein with in light of the obvious growth in their support?
Is McDowell's anti-republican agenda so extreme he'd deliberatley let a situation like this play out?
Are Celtic shirts official uniform for RSF?

mike65

A cop e-mailed Pat Kennys programme today and said the reaction to the Mayday riots was one reason so few gardai were on duty, the chiefs were determined to keep everything as low key as possible. He also noted that policing here is done on the cheap.

Mike.

moomoothegeek

The police will be vindicated the next time they get the oppertunity in a riot situation to wade in against protesters as a result of the actions of the petrol bombers rock throwers looters etc.

What charges will be brought and how many people will be convicted will there be any sin shamers convicted

Stromecek

As I pointed out, Love Ulster parade was obviously going to end in violence between the two factions,
the Mayday protests was a peaceful protest which descended into police brutality on behalf of the state
Two different agendas at work perhaps.

moomoothegeek

I do not know when I last heard of a peaceful protest on May 1 I still think that it only takes one rock thrown next May and I will hear the cry remember
O Connell St.

Prophecy Man

Deleted User wrote:

The armchair republican test...

1. Do you have more than 4 Wolfe Tones albums?

Certainly not - not really my type of music

Deleted User wrote:

2. Have you now, or ever had, a teeshirt with Bobby Sands picture on it?

No

Deleted User wrote:

3. Do you have facial hair, to wit a tache or beard.

No

Deleted User wrote:

4. Does 'Some Mother's Son' give you a lump in the throat?

Maybe.

Deleted User wrote:

5. Did you think the 'you are now entering free Derry' sign was soooo daring?

No - I thought it was a political statement.

I guess Im a republican that does not match your sterotypical representation of such political views. You would be surprised at how many middle to upper class people who are now getting behind the inevitability of a united Ireland. Will it happen by 2016 though or even 2022?

is_that_so

catholicireland wrote:

You entirely focus on one side of the arguement while not even once mentioning the other, who is just, if not more, responsible for hatered. You tar an entire group of Irish people who are republican as one, not realising that there is more then one type of republican. You appear to be firmly on one side - and this makes what you say biased and not very factual.

Make your case. TBH this is just another "rant".

is_that_so

Prophecy Man wrote:

Will it happen by 2016 though or even 2022?

Why would it? Forgive me if I don't believe you.
Far from wanting to damn you ,you make no case whatsoever for it.
You make no case for your political beliefs and more importantly why should a large enough proportion of the population accept it as a possible reality? What is this premise honestly based on?
You employ vague genaralisations that suit your own point of view or shoot down counter views. If you truly hold a point of view make a genuine case for it.
The purpose of arguments and questions is to check the validity of a premise. Anything that does not do this is merely dogma.

Prophecy Man

is_that_so wrote:

Hmm Maggie Thatcher, Pinochet, Bush and Blair. Wonder if there is anyone else we can add to the list of people, to blame? I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

My point is that we should act Irish instead of been yesmen to nations who have promoted human right abuse and genecide under the name of protecting us.

Our ancestors fought and died for what! Politicians who sit in their hotels with their fat arses, a leader that supports British foreign policy. Brown enevelopes and corruption wider than any other European nation. Wake up and smell the coffee - Irish people are been made a fool of by the fat cat politicians.

Unification of Ireland is a natural must for everyone. If you support FF, FG Labour, SF etc you must be favour of a united irland as all those parties started out from the republican movemnet

is_that_so

Prophecy Man wrote:

Unification of Ireland is a natural must for everyone. If you support FF, FG Labour, SF etc you must be favour of a united irland as all those parties started out from the republican movemnet

That is a false premise a bit like this.

We are Irish
88% of Irish people are Catholics
The Catholic Church believes that homosexuality is a sin
Therefore 88% of the population believe it is a sin.

Prophecy Man

Sand wrote:

Not all republicans will publicly endorse the rioting, but theyre all happy that the rioting took place and the march was curtailed to marching past the Dail instead of the GPO.

What are you basing this general statement on?
How many republicans have you spoken to since Saturday that hold this view?

Its very easy to make a random statement like this without any facts.

It would be the same as me saying that all all priests are child abusers.

Prophecy Man

is_that_so wrote:

That is a false premise a bit like this.

We are Irish
88% of Irish people are Catholics
The Catholic Church believes that homosexuality is a sin
Therefore 88% of the population believe it is a sin.

FF and FG were established to setup a United Ireland - this was their basis. They have failed so far big time and seem to have given up on what Michael Collins and Eamonn De Valera set out to do.

The Corinthian

Prophecy Man wrote:

FF and FG were established to setup a United Ireland - this was their basis.

What Mickey Mouse history book did you read this in?

dbnavan

Prophecy Man wrote:

FF and FG were established to setup a United Ireland - this was their basis. They have failed so far big time and seem to have given up on what Michael Collins and Eamonn De Valera set out to do.

LOL, proof of this, I have to see.

I am a member of FG for last 4 years, never heard calls for united Ireland once

StupidLikeAFox

One question though, if this really was a parade to remember the victims of the northern troubles, why did they have to march with a Union Jack flag?

Prophecy Man

Prophecy Man wrote:

You would be surprised at how many middle to upper class people who are now getting behind the inevitability of a united Ireland.

So the rich support it too? Well obviously that makes it so much more legitimate. Presumably they were throwing their champagne flutes at the Gardai last weekend!!

Nothing like a good old bank robbery to bump people up the class divisions...

lynchiered

Lets Get Something very clear for all those mindless shinner bashers out there.

Sinn Fein Supported this march going ahead. Sinn Fein asked it members not to attend this march or any protest around this march. The Shameful events on O' Connell Street on saturday were noting to do with Sinn fein. Saying that this march was noting to do with victims of the troubles or Religous beliefs, it was about Willie Frazer Trying to provoke people and yes it worked.

I think we as people of this State have to ask our Goverment Questions!!

1) Why a Orange Order March was planned to go down O' Connell Street while Construction work was going on.

2) Why An Garda Siochana were under resourced.

3) Who in Dublin city Council gave the go ahead to this march and why?

moomoothegeek

Sinn Fein are to blame for nothing over the years they have never been involved in Murder organised crime rioting Kneecaping Drug running etc So I beleive they had absolutely nothing to do with saturdays debacle because they say so

BuffyBot

why did they have to march with a Union Jack flag?

At a guess it's because some of the victims happened to feel that they were British/were British..

Akrasia

moomoothegeek wrote:

Sinn Fein are to blame for nothing over the years they have never been involved in Murder organised crime rioting Kneecaping Drug running etc So I beleive they had absolutely nothing to do with saturdays debacle because they say so

look, that line of reason is stupid. All of the eye witness evidence states that the Sinners stayed away on saturday. All the documentary evidence states that they publically called on their members to stay away. Are you suggesting that they all disguised themselves as young inner city men and boys and went in to cause the riots? Are you saying they paid those kids to fight the cops?

Just because they were involved in violence in the past doesn't mean they are involved in all violence that happens in the country

dabhoys

I can't believe you went to all the effort of mis quoting what I said.

You left out the begining of the second statement and the first. I said that I don't have a problem with the march and I couldn't care if they march.

The second point was if any march, I don't care what it is if it is considered dangerous to public safety it should be aloud to go ahead.

So why did you go to all the effort to quote my arguments out of context and try make me look like I'm clueless. I don't understand people with your mentality.

oscarBravo wrote:

What was it Brian Lenihan said about the futility of consistency?

LordSutch

I was out of Dublin over the weekend, got back last night and went for a jar in the Porterhouse (Nassau St) got talking to the the Czeck Barman and asked him what had happened, and he told me (and the rest of the table) that those Protestant/ Orange bastards came down here for the day and wrecked the place! Then I picked up a couple of Newspapers on the way home and learned from them that the street rioters were "so called" Republicans - then finally later last night I listened to the repeat of the Dunphy show on (Newstalk 106) and was surprised to hear that it was mostly "Football Hooligans" responsible for all the rioting and mayhem in the City Centre, with no mention at all of Republicans being involved.

Who should I believe?

LordSutch

Prophecy Man wrote:

Unification of Ireland is a natural must for everyone. If you support FF, FG Labour, SF etc you must be favour of a united irland as all those parties started out from the republican movemnet

everyone?
Fair enough if you are an Irish Republican - but always remember those of us who are not Irish Repulicans and who do not want a United Ireland (not because of hatred) but because we are different & we have different cultural and historical backgrounds on this island, and please also remember that the DUP/ UUP/ plus 15% of Northern Nationalists/ and the rather large percentage of people in the South simply do not want to "force" Irish-Unity when it is not required .....................

A Dub in Glasgo

ArthurF wrote:

Who should I believe?

Who ever blames the group/people that fits neatly into your viewpoint. That is what a lot of people do anyway.

Sand

catholicireland said:

stuff

TBH catholicireland, seeing as Im making a point about the sectarian nature of Irish Republicanism youre not exactly in a position to disprove that catholicireland...with your "88.4% of Irish people are Roman Catholic" in big green type as a signature Im afraid it doesnt sell well catholicireland.

The sig implies two things catholicireland, one that you do not accept partition - Ireland is the entire island in your book catholicireland. The green text underlines your views catholicireland. Secondly, that Ireland is a Catholic country - definining the country and your ideal Republic on sectarian grounds catholicireland. A Catholic Republic for a Catholic people right catholicireland? What sort of freedoms would non-Catholics have in your United Catholic Ireland, catholicireland? The freedom to shut the hell up and not provoke decent honest catholic Republicans catholicireland?

Thanks, catholicireland, of all the Provos who post on the board I simply couldnt have asked for a better person to try and challenge my view that republicanism is sectarian. I didnt even have to note how IRA meetings were often opened by a Catholic prayer session well into the 70s,or expand on delibrate sectarian murders by SFIRA, and indeed republicans since 1916.

You entirely focus on one side of the arguement while not even once mentioning the other

Yeah, whatabout the whataboutery. As another poster noted a while back, Provos are simply incapable as defending their views other than claiming someone else did worse.

Unification of Ireland is a natural must for everyone. If you support FF, FG Labour, SF etc you must be favour of a united irland as all those parties started out from the republican movemnet

Youre not on the IRBB anymore. Youll have to explain why a United Ireland is better than the open borders and free movement we have now? All the benefits -assuming there are any- and none of the pain.

Moving on, I said:

Not all republicans will publicly endorse the rioting, but theyre all happy that the rioting took place and the march was curtailed to marching past the Dail instead of the GPO.

Prophecy reponded:

What are you basing this general statement on?
How many republicans have you spoken to since Saturday that hold this view?

Its very easy to make a random statement like this without any facts.

It would be the same as me saying that all all priests are child abusers.

Hilarious stuff, because Prophecy at 15:43 yesterday said (in this very same thread.....:rolleyes: )

I agree that this march had to be stopped. Thank God that someone protected what our ancestors died for although I am dissappointed that it took scum to do so. Shame on all the political parties for allowing the orange march go ahead, and that includes Sinn Fein.

Thats the thing about Provos, theyll always bring a smile to your face with their faux outrage and "how dare you think we Provos support violence!!!".

lynchiered

lynchiered wrote:

1) Why a Orange Order March was planned to go down O' Connell Street while Construction work was going on.

Was it an actual Orange Order march? What's all this Love Ulster stuff? I appreciate that the Love Ulster might be a tag for something less savoury, but everyone seems to get so upset when the scumbags were described as Republicans that surely accuracy is needed throughout this discussion.

I presume the decision was made that either (i) we are a mature democracy that should protect freedom of expression or maybe (ii) they heard Prophecy Man's theory about the new upper class shinners and figured all the troublemakers would be at cello lessons.

lynchiered wrote:

2) Why An Garda Siochana were under resourced.

That's a different issue entirely, but as the money going into the gardai has gone through the roof since 1997 I don't think funding or resources are the issue - maybe management?

lynchiered wrote:

3) Who in Dublin city Council gave the go ahead to this march and why?

Again, maybe someone who thought about that whole mature democracy/freedom of expression thing.