Republican Riots in O'Connell Street

Sand

Sand wrote:

catholicireland said:


TBH catholicireland, seeing as Im making a point about the sectarian nature of Irish Republicanism youre not exactly in a position to disprove that catholicireland...with your "88.4% of Irish people are Roman Catholic" in big green type as a signature Im afraid it doesnt sell well catholicireland.

The sig implies two things catholicireland, one that you do not accept partition

I'd have thought it does mean he accepts partition because his 88% figure could only possibly be a figure for the 26 counties.
The island as a whole would be only 70% catholic at a push many of which are lapsed.

While I'm posting,I'll give a little direction here it seems valid to me to point out inconsistencies in a persons arguments but thats not a licence for any poster on the forum to get personal with another poster.
So I'd ask posters to bear that in mind when debating.
Lets all stick to the posts.

nlgbbbblth

oscarBravo wrote:

Charlie Bird is an Orange Bastard.

Apparently.

Charlie Bird was attacked because he is a Protestant.

Some of the rioters were on anti-Protestant crusade as opposed to anti-Orange Order / anti-Loyalist one.

A van from St Columba's College (Church of Ireland) was also vandalised on Nassau St.

Some quotes from the day.

Why are the Guards protecting the Protestants?

Protestant scum

You should be ashamed to be Irish. Supporting Prods and Brits

Other famous Protestants

Wolfe Tone
Robert Emmet
Henry Grattan
Charles Parnell
WB Yeats
Samuel Beckett
Sean O'Casey
JM Synge

Coincidentally Celtic are a Scottish team who play an English game.

A Dub in Glasgo

nlgbbbblth wrote:

Coincidentally Celtic are a Scottish team who play an English game.

Actually Celtic are a multi-national team based in Scotland of Irish origin and part Irish ownership. They play a brand of ball sports that origined in ancient China, the rules for which were later formalised in England

MrPudding

I was thinking about this Love Ulster march / parade. The interesting thing for me is this: If it was the Norths Parades commission deciding whether or not it should go ahead I believe they would have banned it.

I am not making excuses for the scumbags that rioted but seriously, anyone who thought there would not be trouble does not deserve to be in charge of cleaning the toilets in McDonalds.

MrP

Gurgle

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Actually Celtic are a multi-national team based in Scotland of Irish origin and part Irish ownership. They play a brand of ball sports that origined in ancient China, the rules for which were later formalised in England

Actually the scottish celts are decended from the Irish celts, not the scandanavian ones. So ultimately anyone declaring themselves to be 'ulster-scots' is Irish on both counts.

The Corinthian

Gurgle wrote:

Actually the scottish celts are decended from the Irish celts, not the scandanavian ones. So ultimately anyone declaring themselves to be 'ulster-scots' is Irish on both counts.

Logical fallacy. What you say is true only if Celts were the only ethnic group in Scotland, which they were not.

Additionally, AFAIR the (Irish) Celtic migrations / invasions were actually to Wales, not Scotland. There were much later (19th Century) migrations from Ireland to Scotland, but these would really be classified as Irish rather than Celtic. I’m certainly open to correction though on this.

Actually, there’s presently some debate on whether there were significant numbers of Celts in either Albion or Hibernia or whether what we think of as Irish, Scottish, etc Celts were largely indigenous peoples who had simply adopted aspects of Celtic culture as it migrated from Gaul and central Europe.

Seriously off topic, sorry

Akrasia

Gurgle wrote:

Actually the scottish celts are decended from the Irish celts, not the scandanavian ones. So ultimately anyone declaring themselves to be 'ulster-scots' is Irish on both counts.

but who cares? I know it's fun to play the descendants and racial superiority game, but it is meaningless for anything other than predisposition to certain medical conditions.

Republicans in the south who go on about 800 years of British oppression are just as annoying as zionists who go on about they 5000 year old claim to the state of israel. To the people of the present day all that suffering is academic because it hasn't happened to them personally and they are so far removed from the culture, lifestyle, beliefs and traditions of the people who actually suffered those injustices, simply because times have changed and society has evolved drastically, that what they claim to be fighting to return to, is something that never existed at all in the first place.

Akrasia

in otherwords, a child brought up in Ireland, who attends irish schools and has irish friends and an irish accent is just as irish as the purest bred 'O Brien' or 'Murphy', no matter what colour their skin is or what DNA heritage they might have

Gurgle

Akrasia wrote:

in otherwords, a child brought up in Ireland, who attends irish schools and has irish friends and an irish accent is just as irish as the purest bred 'O Brien' or 'Murphy', no matter what colour their skin is or what DNA heritage they might have

Which btw is the way it always was, until the numbers stepped up recently.
I know some born and bred irish people in their 30s of african and middle eastern descent, never mind the thousands from all over europe who have been coming here for centuries, and you couldn't even tell after a generation that they weren't original celts.
Very very few ever got any racial abuse.

muincav

hi all;
dont mean to interupt but i just wanted to get my point across-
it only seems to be the Irish politicians who want this biggoted loyalist march to go down O' Connell street.as far as i can tell, the majority of ordinary people dont want this triumphilist march to ever go ahead (so much for democracy).
if the cowards in the dail give in to these loyalists again, hopefully every able bodied person in IRELAND will descend on O' Connell street for a PEACEFUL PROTEST to show them we are not going to be marched over so they can play the sashe outside the GPO and laugh all the way back to their PSNI protected houses...

rsynnott

muincav wrote:

if the cowards in the dail give in to these loyalists again, hopefully every able bodied person in IRELAND will descend on O' Connell street for a PEACEFUL PROTEST to show them we are not going to be marched over so they can play the sashe outside the GPO and laugh all the way back to their PSNI protected houses...

A peaceful protest (a real one) would be fine. No-one would have issues with a peaceful protest. Nothing wrong with freedom of expression (like the original victims of republican violence march). There's a LOT wrong with that farce we saw on Saturday.

oscarBravo

muincav wrote:

as far as i can tell, the majority of ordinary people dont want this triumphilist march to ever go ahead (so much for democracy).

This being the politics board, you will (I'm sure) be happy to provide a link to the results of a plebiscite that support this view.

Mind you, I don't remember such a vote being held, so it must have been an opinion poll. You'll be linking to it, and providing detailed information on the methodology used to arrive at the results thereof, right?

Otherwise we're faced with the Appalling Vista (tm) of a "majority of ordinary people" that actually turns out to be "the three blokes I talked to about this down the pub last night".

And I just know you wouldn't do that to us.

Would you?

muincav

muincav wrote:

dont mean to interupt but i just wanted to get my point across-
it only seems to be the Irish politicians who want this biggoted loyalist march to go down O' Connell street.as far as i can tell, the majority of ordinary people dont want this triumphilist march to ever go ahead (so much for democracy)

So how many turned up to oppose it? Out of the whole of Ireland, a handful of scumbags intent on causing mayhem. And you are telling us that they represent the majority? Are you laughing while you type?

Maskhadov

Ive a question. why dont the Love Ulster et al march down O Connoll street on a Sunday when all the shops are closed ? It would reduce the odds of any protests. Of course they will never agree to it because they are religous extremests.

The Defence Forces may well have to rail road any future march down O Connoll street and all the bad press that it will give us.

MrPudding

Maskhadov wrote:

Ive a question. why dont the Love Ulster et al march down O Connoll street on a Sunday when all the shops are closed ? It would reduce the odds of any protests. Of course they will never agree to it because they are religous extremests.

The Defence Forces may well have to rail road any future march down O Connoll street and all the bad press that it will give us.

They will march on a Sunday. However, if you live in Ballymena or some other areas in the North and you decide to cut your grass or wash your car on a Sunday you will get a visit from some neighbours asking you not to spoil the sabbath day.

It is OK to setup a camp in a field and attack the police and the army while getting pissed on the sabbath day but not to wash your car. Strange belief system.

MrP

Skalragg

now let me start by saying that there was no need to riot and behave like they did, HOWEVER i for one do not agree with loyalist union jack waving orangemen parading around dublin with their bands.they complain about the IRA, ive news for them, if the protestants had been fair, respectful and given catholics their BASIC and Civil rights from the start(1960s onwards),and treated them as equal citizens the IRA and terrorism would not have grown to the level it did. people were queueing to join it in the 70s because of the poor and unfair treatment they recieved from loyalists
they seem to forget that fact.
i dont mind anyone of another religion,im not racist or anything however i do not feel orangemen marching in the republic is something the country is ready for just yet, it is in my mind too contraversal and the orangremen have made no effort to calm things, but just blame republicans for their problems once again

GOAT_Ali

I think the legitimate rioters or opponents of the March should be damn well congratulated. I know it seems insane to use legitimate and rioter in the same sentence but this March was a little bit more sensitive than your average. If these Loyalists want to march, why don't they do it where the are wanted, by people who want them and by a land that wants them. They despise the Tricolor, the land of Ireland and its people, so why should we allow such a dangerous enemy to freely march our streets, inciting hatred and breathing hate towards Irish citizens.

If we as Irish went to London and attempted to march down their main streets preaching hatred to all that is British, do you believe British people would peacefully protest?? I'd say we'd be shot down there and then, and who could blame them. These marchers were using the victims of the troubles to incite hatred on O'Connell street, carrying their Union Jacks and George's cross flags and daring to sing offensive anti Irish songs. What the hell did our Government expect the people to react like??

As for the general random violence of looting and the burning of cars, this is unfortunately inevitable when you get this mass protest and deep anger from a protesting crowd. This was more than a protest over unemployment or high taxes, it was an extremely sensitive issue

Snickers Man

GOAT_Ali wrote:

If we as Irish went to London and attempted to march down their main streets preaching hatred to all that is British, do you believe British people would peacefully protest?? I'd say we'd be shot down there and then, and who could blame them.

I don't think you know what you're talking about. There are regular 'anti British'marches in London that are protected by the British police from the yobs in the BNP/NF that want to take them on. I know. I;ve been on them.

As long as the marchers behave themselves they are unmolested by the authorities. And that's the way it should be.

Those rioters should have been batoned off the streets and back into the pubs whence most of them came.

GOAT_Ali

Really, like our friends in Garvaghy were beaten off their own streets for protesting, and that was peaceful by the way. What marches happen in London which are highly anti British, apart from the anti war marches, which have nothing to do with anti British

Skalragg

adding to my origanil post,i dont see the loyalists should be arragont enough to come down,they HATE the irish,the tricolour and everthing about us. stay up the north, cuase all you do is create trouble, i wouldnt mind if it was for a cuase that benifited people, but like i said in previous post,

they think it aint their fault at all

A Dub in Glasgo

Snickers Man wrote:

I don't think you know what you're talking about. There are regular 'anti British'marches in London that are protected by the British police from the yobs in the BNP/NF that want to take them on. I know. I;ve been on them.

Regular marches? How regular and what marches? Were you part of the march or part of the BNP/NF demo?

gurramok

Skalragg wrote:

adding to my origanil post,i dont see the loyalists should be arragont enough to come down,they HATE the irish,the tricolour and everthing about us. stay up the north, cuase all you do is create trouble, i wouldnt mind if it was for a cuase that benifited people, but like i said in previous post,

they think it aint their fault at all

Well said.
All incitement to hate marches whether its a loyalist/Nazi/KKK march should not be tolerated in a civilised society.

catholicireland

dont mean to interupt but i just wanted to get my point across-
it only seems to be the Irish politicians who want this biggoted loyalist march to go down O' Connell street.as far as i can tell, the majority of ordinary people dont want this triumphilist march to ever go ahead (so much for democracy).

Exactly, and of course unionists like Sand.

samb

GOAT_Ali wrote:

. If these Loyalists want to march, why don't they do it where the are wanted, by people who want them and by a land that wants them. They despise the Tricolor, the land of Ireland and its people, so why should we allow such a dangerous enemy to freely march our streets, inciting hatred and breathing hate towards Irish citizens.

I don't think most British people want them really. It is Irish people who want them to live within an all-Ireland republic. If you want a united Ireland then you will have to live with them, no? Where did you get the impression they were going to be 'inciting hadred and breathing hate towards Irish citizens'? I think you are being blinded by the same prejudice that fuelled the oppression of catholics in the north.

All incitement to hate marches whether its a loyalist/Nazi/KKK march should not be tolerated in a civilised society
if we allow desent to be outlawed then how can we guard/protest if a group we don't want such as loyalist/Nazi/KKK ruling. I believe that we must accept freedom of speech at all times.

i dont see the loyalists should be arragont enough to come down,they HATE the irish,the tricolour and everthing about us. stay up the north, cuase all you do is create trouble,
Perhaps most/many of them do hate the Irish (would make an intersting pole, to gauge the hatred) but I think you are showing yourself to be making a big generalisation and guilty of same irrational hatred. Again, do you not want them to be part of this country? Re-partion? What is your solution?

Gurgle

Hmmm, just thinking.
There weren't any rebublican riots in O'Connell street, the thread title is inaccurate.
Just skanger riots.

Freelancer

Gurgle wrote:

Hmmm, just thinking.
There weren't any rebublican riots in O'Connell street, the thread title is inaccurate.
Just skanger riots.

Republican skangers are still republicans. It'll help SF members remember who the real support base of SF really are.

GOAT_Ali

GOAT_Ali wrote:

Really, like our friends in Garvaghy were beaten off their own streets for protesting, and that was peaceful by the way.

So you've gone from making generalisations about what happens in London, to making generalisations about London based on the particular circumstances at the Gervaghy Road?

ivan087

i was in italy during the riots, sitting around a table with people from all over europe i had to explain why these people were rioting. i've never felt more ashamed of my country. i had to explain that an organisation of prodestants wished to hand in a letter of complaint to the irish government and that an element of irish catholics wanted to stop them from doing this. really embarresing and pathetic.
having said all that - why did this organisation feel the need to fly the union jack, play loylist songs etc. there was no need for that. wouldnt it have been better for the love ulster organisation to get catholic victims of IRA trouble to march along with them. make it more inclusive. they made it into a political parade. it was a shame and a waste. there could have been a bigger and more meaningful protest. now all that will be remembered is the riot.

Sand

dont mean to interupt but i just wanted to get my point across-
it only seems to be the Irish politicians who want this biggoted loyalist march to go down O' Connell street.as far as i can tell, the majority of ordinary people dont want this triumphilist march to ever go ahead (so much for democracy).

Exactly, and of course unionists like Sand.

Catholicireland, I dont want them down here. You Provos want them down here. You continuously demand that they come down here and join us. I dont. I want the border to remain in place and if possible it should be fortified. However, despite not wanting them down here Ive no stronger feelings on the marchers than I did about the Provo march a few months before that. I didnt go out to stone the Provos, and I didnt go out to stone the LoveUlster marchers. Assuming they keep within the boundaries of the law, then theres not a lot I can do about either bunch. Now either you want them down here, and you want Orange Order men running your affairs in your government, or you dont. Im clear on where I stand. Are you?

I hope everyone is getting a good idea of how great a United Ireland would be if it ever come about. Provos insist on uniting with people they hate and despise, who they attack practically on sight and who they cant even share the same city with for a few hours of one day. The most pathetic bigots pretending to be interested in unity. Whats truly sad is that whilst the scum rioting were only the tip of the iceberg - an SI poll found 32% of people blamed the marchers for bringing the violence on themselves.

And the main reason Republicans hated and feared this march so much is because it might portray the IRAs victims as something other than "brits" or "prods". Hence the desperate attempt to portray it as an orange order march. They have a monopoly on the portrayal of the Troubles in the Republic, and as demonstrated by their street scum supporters, theyll fight hard to ensure that monopoly is never challenged by a different view. The only good outcome from the riots was that it underlined once and for all the complete stupidity of the Republican project - trying to unify rioters with their victims so they can meet up every weekend to continue the feud.

nlgbbbblth

catholicireland wrote:

Exactly, and of course unionists like Sand.

Why do you have such a username?

Is it something you want this country to aspire/revert to?

Either way it makes you sound pretty intolerant. As if your posts didn't already.