Republican Riots in O'Connell Street

gandalf

Firstly eventhough I don't agree with the sentiment behind the Love Ulster march in a proper democracy they should be allowed to march to express their opinions.

To say they are to blame for the riots is misdirection of the most pathetic kind. The people responsible for the violence are the thugs that were encouraged to come out and the organisers of the "counter demonstration" whether they be Sinn Fein or RSF or "I can't believe its not Sinn Fein".

Matt I am not sure what your point is but imho the Gardai didn't bash enough of these scumbags. These idiots damaged businesses, maybe costing jobs, destroyed peoples personal property (how many cars burnt out?), injured people, Dublins image as a holiday destination tainted.

Ireland has moved on, shame these Neandertals haven't.

pork99

Matt Simis wrote:

The image, for those too lazy to click, is of a Garda bashing heads, baton raised in air and all.



Matt

Your problem being what precisely?

That's what we pay them to do - protect us by cracking scumbag's skulls (but only when they ask for it which this lot did )

Dakeyras

To start off i'm not a usual poster on politics but what's going on today in dublin is something that i've been discussing with my friends throughout the day and reading opinions here on boards.

Just to state from the start I'm from the north and am a liberal nationalist.

Now I have no love for Sinn Fein and am not a supporter, not of their politics nor of the majority of thier politicians, but I don't believe that the acts of a minority that is unrepresentative of any broad section of society should be laid at the door of any political party.

Protests may have been organised by republican Sinn Fein but that doesn't mean that the rioting should be laid at their door, nor at the door of Sinn Fein. I'm not defending the motives or intentions of either of those parties but blame without evidence should not be set on any one or any group, which is what i've heard and read today.

Todays march was, in my opinion, ill-advised but any person in Ireland is protected by the constitution of their right to demonstrate, and discounting the fact that the demonstraters were in the majority from a different country (from their view), i still respect their right to demonstrate and publicise their grievances, no matter what their political leanings may be.

Todays march should have been at worst met with a dignified protest and at best with indifference but, as is unfortunately only too familar when issues of Northern Ireland arise, today descended into the hands of mindless unintelligent thuggery. Scenes like these have been played out many times within the North and with this march issues were transported whole to Dublin.

But todays protests were led by idiots, as are all riots. Not only was attacking the guards sufficient but an element, which i would presume care little for politics, proceeded to loot and destroy the property of their capital city (granted there were those from the north but I'm assuming they consider Dublin as their capital too).

The thing about riots is that most of time rioters destroy the property and disrupt the lives of what they would consider 'their people', it is one of the most counter-productive activities, as was evidenced once again today.

What happened today should not have happened in a perfect world, but we dont live in a perfect world and this is certainly not a perfect island. Until we arrive at a political climate were march's like todays can take place peacefully and without blind hate we still have a ways to go.

Matt Simis

pork99 wrote:

Your problem being what precisely?

That's what we pay them to do - protect us by cracking scumbag's skulls (but only when they ask for it which this lot did )

Odd its assumed I had a problem with Gardai doing his job.. I was merely pointing out how this is looking and is being portrayed in the World media. I also thought it was an amusing caption when paired with the image.

Reefbreak, the quote text has nothing to do with what "side" Im on. If you clicked the article link and read it, you would see that quote was from Bertie.

Quite a defensive lot here eh?



Matt

Dakeyras

Dakeyras wrote:

But todays protests were led by idiots, as are all riots. Not only was attacking the guards sufficient but an element, which i would presume care little for politics, proceeded to loot and destroy the property of their capital city (granted there were those from the north but I'm assuming they consider Dublin as their capital too).

I've just seen the pictures on the news.
Totally disgracefull to put it mildly.
Gurriers is all they were,running down the street smashing cars and windows etc etc.

37 were arrested with plenty of evidence for court.
Lets see who these eejits are and no doubt we will know soon.

ReefBreak

Put their photos on the paper. Name and shame them.

Cork

Sand wrote:

Either way, todays events have underlined once and for all why a United Ireland would be a disaster. Wed have crap like this every second weekend.

Showed nothing with regards tolerance to an authorised march.


The narrow minded & bigoted mindset of the rioters was a disgrace.

The PDs office was lso attacked.

Disgarceful, unwarranted and dumb.

GerardKeating

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Correct that the riots are disgraceful but your thread title is also disgraceful

Yeah, the truth hurts donn't it.

SF show their true colours...

A Dub in Glasgo

GerardKeating wrote:

Yeah, the truth hurts donn't it.

SF show their true colours...

Please explain, I fail to see your point

trekkypj

I have to say I am really disturbed by this.

When was the last time there was a riot in Dublin? In OUR capital?

What right have any group to disturb the peace in such a foul, thuggish manner? I don't care if they style themselves Republican, Loyalist or any other color. I don't care that it was a Unionist march being disrupted. We have been made look like sectarian fools in the eyes of the world, and all thanks to a bunch of thugs who use politics as an excuse to have a go at some other group.

The fact is that those responsible for this outrage attacked anyone in sight of the parade, not just Unionists (who wisely legged it to their transport and got the hell out) but Gardai, journalists and bystanders going about their business. I could have been in town that day, doing my shopping. I could have been injured by these bastards who have the cheek to act 'on my behalf'. Well they don't represent me; I don't want those kind representing me, and if I thought that it was true, I'd emigrate.

They destroyed people's property, they have undermined the right of people to express their views and to celebrate who they are. And they have shown that they don't give a damn about free speech and democracy, for the law, or for their fellow human beings.

Let's not go down the road of 'ah shure they're Unionists, that's different.' Ideology is only so much bollox anyway. It is nothing more or less than an excuse to hit someone who doesn't agree with you. They are people too, and why shoud I even have to say that. Innocent people got hurt today and it was only through luck and the small size of the protesters that someone didn't get killed.

Sarsfield

I took a walk up O'Connell St at about 12:45 today. I got as far as Henry St.

Large numbers of typical Dublin scumbags were heading towards Parnell Square. There was nothing political about this riot. From where I stood it looked like nothing but an excuse for the scum of our city to have a go at the Gardai.

However I suspect this is what Republican Sinn Fein hoped for. RSF is the party of scumbags. They are pure filth.

I'm very angry today. I hope the Gardai cracked a lot of skulls.

As an aside, any geniune Celtic supporter would be ashamed today as the uniform of the rioting scumbags WAS the Celtic shirt/scarf combo.

NukaCola

Cant get "i predict a riot" from the kaiser cheifs out of my head. Anyway i condemn any acts of violence from any one but it was bound to happen, which is kinda sad.

DeVore

To say the marchers were to blame is silly. Perhaps (and probably) they deliberately set out to plan a march that would show us up as the narrowminded bigotted society they couldnt be part of. The rioters did a pretty good job of proving it and the unionists didnt even need to march. Perhaps we need to take a long hard look at our society because having some tolerant people isnt enough.

We might completely disagree with their march but we have to protect their right to do so or we risk becoming what they say we are.

There seem to be a disturbingly large number of people here who seem to have conveniently forgotten that little logical connundrum

DeV.

ReefBreak

As an aside, any geniune Celtic supporter would be ashamed today as the uniform of the rioting scumbags WAS the Celtic shirt/scarf combo.

The ironic thing, of course, is that Glasgow Celtic are a British team. If they were so "Irish" - and I believe these vermin should not be considered Irish - they would support an Irish team. How many of those scumbags will be watching Ireland play Wales tomorrow, or will they be watching some bullsh*t English premiership team/Scottish team. Ironic considering the Irish rugby team is the one side that is an All-Ireland, 32 county team with representatives from both sides of the so-called political divide.

The Corinthian

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

No one to blame but the people involved. Questions need to be asked and they are very valid questions

1. Who allowed this in O'Connell Street when O'Connell Street was a building site. Very handy for people to get their hands on things to throw

2. This is exactly what was predicted ages ago. This is exactly the type of reaction that LU wanted.

The whole thing is a farce

You’re quite the apologist, I see.

Jamiege1

What's disgraceful is the fact that the Irish Government would allow a march through the streets of Dublin by an organization publicly celebrating the invasion of Ireland. An organization which is known for it's connections with violence just as much as any Republican organizations. The main problem here today is the fact that poorly educated men had no real outlet to protest this abominable display of arrogance by the "Orangemen". To think that they can travel down to our capital city, which our ancestors had to fight and die to be able to govern freely, and rub in our faces the fact that their invasion was a success. Is that what the Irish freedom fighters fought and died for in the past? Really? Wake up Bertie & co., what did you expect from this section of our citizens.?!? What happened today was unfortunate yes, but what was more unfortunate was the fact that nobody gave these men a peaceful alternative. Now, some of you will say, well these men would never have chosen a peaceful alternative and I ask you, how do you know that? How do we know what these men are capable of if given a realistic choice for protest? It's a sad day for our Republic of Ireland. However, we will bounce back from this, this nation has fought back from far lower lows and this will be just one more.

A Dub in Glasgo

Having the march in a building site did not help either. The people who allowed today to happen are very naive to think that the scummier side of society would not revel in it.

A Dub in Glasgo

The Corinthian wrote:

You’re quite the apologist, I see.

Apologist for the riot? please show

Hobbes

Why is everyone so indignant.. everyone has been saying something exactly like this was going to happen today.

I was there btw when it broke out. The missus was on the middle of O'Connell street with my son waiting for her friend when everyone started running (I guess from the cops grabbing people). They both went into the nearby shop (shoe shop) which closed the shutters once they were in, and let the people out of the shop out the back way sometime later.

As for myself, I was driving up parnell street (trying to get past Ilac center). Redirected down to the quays, worked over the bridge only to be stopped by about 30 or cops who were escorting all the coaches to ferry out the people. Then told to turn back around again, back all the way up to parnell street again but find away around (thanks to a cop). Speaking to the cop he said it was more or less localised to one end of O'Connell street at that point. 10 minutes later further on again told to stop moving while a huge number of bike cops escort the coaches full of people out of Dublin.

TBH I'd say there were a lot of skangers there just taking the piss along with some republican rioters. I didn't see any Irish type stuff splattered on those I did see rioting that you see with the usual Republican head. Parnell area isn't generally a great place to begin with.

trekkypj

Jamiege1 wrote:

What's disgraceful is the fact that the Irish Government would allow a march through the streets of Dublin by an organization publicly celebrating the invasion of Ireland. An organization which is known for it's connections with violence just as much as any Republican organizations. The main problem here today is the fact that poorly educated men had no real outlet to protest this abominable display of arrogance by the "Orangemen". To think that they can travel down to our capital city, which our ancestors had to fight and die to be able to govern freely, and rub in our faces the fact that their invasion was a success. Is that what the Irish freedom fighters fought and died for in the past? Really? Wake up Bertie & co., what did you expect from this section of our citizens.?!? What happened today was unfortunate yes, but what was more unfortunate was the fact that nobody gave these men a peaceful alternative. Now, some of you will say, well these men would never have chosen a peaceful alternative and I ask you, how do you know that? How do we know what these men are capable of if given a realistic choice for protest? It's a sad day for our Republic of Ireland. However, we will bounce back from this, this nation has fought back from far lower lows and this will be just one more.

What a load of nonsense. Some republican you are if you can't even acknowledge the key tenet of democracy, the right to express unpopular viewpoints without violent reprisals.

And they don't want to 'invade'; judging by today's events they couldn't leave fast enough. Don't blame them either. If you were a Unionist, would you want to 'invade'? They'd sooner invade Soviet Russia.

EireRoadUser

We were quite clearly made fools of on this one.
Whoever sent them lads down here were more knowledgable about riot conditions than we ever will be.
It doesn't take a genious to work out what the slightest bit of anger and 3 tons of projectiles means.
I think personally a lot of people were to blame on this ,i don't think political parties are interested in goods from shops on O'conell street. And the orange men aren't religous people as far as i see, there just a group of people who like banging a drum in other peoples areas.

Freelancer

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Having the march in a building site did not help either. The people who allowed today to happen are very naive to think that the scummier side of society would not revel in it.

Exactly at what point do you start to admit that the responsibility for picking up a paving stone and hurling it at someone starts and stops with the guy who throws it, and not with the builder who put it there?

Sand

What a load of nonsense. Some republican you are if you can't even acknowledge the key tenet of democracy, the right to express unpopular viewpoints without violent reprisals.

Well it is nonsense, but I dont see how you can accuse him of betraying Irish republicanism refusing to condemn violent reprisals against unpopular viewpoints. Its not exactly as if republicans are pacifists or staunch democrats.

pork99

Sarsfield wrote:

However I suspect this is what Republican Sinn Fein hoped for. RSF is the party of scumbags. They are pure filth.

Agreed. Its time they were permanently put out of business.

trekkypj

It depends on what you consider republicanism.

I tend towards the classical definition anyway. You know, Greeks in robes, meeting in the town centre, making decisions, all views heard, that kind of thing.

Rather than mob rule and the 'Brits out' mentality.

Edit: And the yanks consider republicanism as being right wing conservative for the most part... that doesn't tally with his use of the word either.

gandalf

Jamiege1 wrote:

snipped apologist tripe

What a pathetic response, what you don't realise is eventhough you don't like the idea Orangemen are actually just as Irish as the rest of us.

What I am fed up with is the fact we as a country are held back by the backward inward looking middle age politics of Northern Ireland. At this stage we as a country should cut off all but the most basic resources to Northern Ireland and until the "Communities" up there can show they can get on, leave them to it. At the moment Northern Ireland does not deserve to be part of this country.

Sarsfield

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The people who allowed today to happen are very naive to think that the scummier side of society would not revel in it.

So we should allow the scum element of our society dictate what is allowed?

I don't want filth like that telling me what I can and can't do.

The biggest mistake of today was not having more Gardai with batons.

Another thing I noticed after the riot was that much of the broken glass all over the streets was alcohol bottles.

trekkypj

gandalf wrote:

What I am fed up with is the fact we as a country are held back by the backward inward looking middle age politics of Northern Ireland. At this stage we as a country should cut off all but the most basic resources to Northern Ireland and until the "Communities" up there can show they can get on, leave them to it. At the moment Northern Ireland does not deserve to be part of this country.

I don't agree but I can understand the sentiment. It's tempting to respond by saying 'A plague on both your houses' and just have nothing to do with the petty squabbles at all.

But it's not the people of N. Ireland at fault. It's the same old twopence hapenny thugs who keep things going. Most people don't give a toss in that they are more concerned with living, working and looking after their families. It is RARELY the majority of people that do this sort of thing.

The sad truth is that small groups can and do create havoc in communities where the vast majority are content to keep things calm. That's why we need civic police forces. They keep the troublemakers in line. So why did this get out of control in the way it did? The Gardai did not expect, and did not prepare adequately for, this eventuality.

Dyr

gandalf wrote:

What a pathetic response, what you don't realise is eventhough you don't like the idea Orangemen are actually just as Irish as the rest of us.

Funny thing is that the orange men dont like the idea that they're just as orange as the rest of us, which is what today's coat dragging excercise was all about.

murphaph

Jamiege1 wrote:

What's disgraceful is the fact that the Irish Government would allow a march through the streets of Dublin by an organization publicly celebrating the invasion of Ireland. An organization which is known for it's connections with violence just as much as any Republican organizations. The main problem here today is the fact that poorly educated men had no real outlet to protest this abominable display of arrogance by the "Orangemen". To think that they can travel down to our capital city, which our ancestors had to fight and die to be able to govern freely, and rub in our faces the fact that their invasion was a success. Is that what the Irish freedom fighters fought and died for in the past? Really? Wake up Bertie & co., what did you expect from this section of our citizens.?!? What happened today was unfortunate yes, but what was more unfortunate was the fact that nobody gave these men a peaceful alternative. Now, some of you will say, well these men would never have chosen a peaceful alternative and I ask you, how do you know that? How do we know what these men are capable of if given a realistic choice for protest? It's a sad day for our Republic of Ireland. However, we will bounce back from this, this nation has fought back from far lower lows and this will be just one more.

It's all well and good for you to sit in NYC and blame the orangies. The orangies didn't burn your car out today pal.