Republican Riots in O'Connell Street

The_Minister

Nalced_irl wrote:

I actually recognised one person in one of the videos i saw online and i have to say, he is the type i would have put in this mess. I did Irish History in School with him and lets just say his interest in the class was very limited...then i see him here, supposedly acting on behalf of the republican people by hurling bricks and bottles?!? Well, **** him and anyone like him.

Will you report him?

Hobbes

Earthman wrote:

Yeah that was a very patriotic act alright beating up Charlie Bird :rolleyes: speaks volumes for the type of people involved yesterday.
Total Gurriers and nothing else.

Although I haven't seen another report of it, FM104 mentioned that some pregnant woman also got beaten up there.

rsynnott

Raskolnikov wrote:

Where was the racism on Saturday?

The word 'racism' is often (mis)used to mean any form of mindless bigotry, such as that demonstrated by those idiots throwing stones at the gardai on Saturday.

The Corinthian

rsynnott wrote:

The word 'racism' is often (mis)used

Full stop.

dbnavan

Zebra3 wrote:

Saturday was a disgrace, but at least everyone got to see what sort of people certain housing estates are producing.

Talk about narrow minded, stereotyping. I know some absolute gentlemen, that live in 'rough' housing estates, and the boys that killed that bloke outside annabells few years back where from 'upper class southside'. So that arguement is pure c**p and gets me going every time.

pork99

I saw one protester urinate in a bottle before running up to Garda lines and throwing the contents on to a female officer. Her colleagues were repeatedly spat upon.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1569887&issue_id=13730

Go n'Eiri An Bothar Leat indeed

For all their new cool & trendy Mary Lou McDonald/Ms Ferris in her microskirt image it's going to be hard for them to get away from the fact it's that sort of person who is the bedrock of their support

Some kept fighting on O'Connell Street, but the bulk of them moved southside, wreaking havoc in Nassau Street and its environs. It was truly frightening, as crowds of Saturday shoppers got caught up in the madness.

"It was deathly!" one little git was bragging to his mates, strutting down the street having put in a car windscreen.

Three pimply faced little bantams, chanting "I-I-I-IRA" and dancing for joy. An older man - the sort you wouldn't like to meet in a dark alley - came along and shouted "I told yis to leave the cars alone. Go up to Leinster House."

And, as a caller correctly reported on radio yesterday, the lads bounced on down Nassau Street, delighted with themselves. And one said to the other "Where is The Leinster House?"

"Dame Street," came the reply. And so another three brave young men are politicised. If nothing else, they should be good for handing out leaflets.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1569775&issue_id=13730

Just sums up the threat to democracy and civil society represented by subversives - republican activists organising street scum to do the dirty business.

dabhoys

Firespinner wrote:

All your idea would mean is that unpopular decisions could never be made. Every choice would have to be made based on public opinion and those able to spin well would get off. (think of the farmer who shot a traveller).

Why on earth would you think that? Judges in the state don't play a popularity game.

And, as a caller correctly reported on radio yesterday, the lads bounced on down Nassau Street, delighted with themselves. And one said to the other "Where is The Leinster House?"

They probably thought it was a pub :rolleyes:

dabhoys

dbnavan wrote:

Over 90% of people who live in the country agree, IMO cut it off and let them float to antartica for all I care.

Thats a nice mentallity to have. Once you got what you wanted foget about the rest. All my family is from Tyrone and everyone of them is as irish as you and me!!! I won't accept it any different.

Also I would like to point out the president of the country is from belfast. So that must mean she is not irish and that all her family should be let float away and forgotten about.

I studied irish history extensively in school and college and alot of people don't know the half of what there talking about. The scumbags who rioted the other day wouldn't have a clue about what happened in the past and understand the true extent of the troubles.

To be perfectly honsest the british government have had enough of the 'North' they'd love nothing more then to wipe there hands clean of the whole thing.

I just can't accept the fact the law enforment agencies and government officials of this country believed this parade weather it was legal or not was going to go down peacefully.

Everyone here has ignored my comparison to a KKK parade in Harlem!!! Think about it. Do you think the police or government officials in the states would allow such a rally even if its there right to have a parade??? It was a melting pot for disaster to be honest.

Zebra3

dathi1 wrote:

I think that statement is an insult to the 95% of law abiding citizens in "neglected areas"

dbnavan wrote:

Talk about narrow minded, stereotyping. I know some absolute gentlemen, that live in 'rough' housing estates, and the boys that killed that bloke outside annabells few years back where from 'upper class southside'. So that arguement is pure c**p and gets me going every time.

I wasn't talking about everyone from those estates, I was merely pointing out the lawlessness that some of the etates are engulfed in due to the actions of a minority and the abandonment of the estates by the Gardai to these thugs. Sorry if it was worded badly and came across the wrong way.

dabhoys

dabhoys wrote:

I studied irish history extensively in school and college and alot of people don't know the half of what there talking about.

I could easily say that my own opinion is that the North is part of British Territory, and that Irish (within the Republic) history ignores the north from the creation of the Republic onwards. Afterall it was only after I left School & college that I encountered any real information on the subject involving the north. Prior to the Republic's creation, the North was a huge part of it, but after? Not our history.

And I agree. The North has been a crapfest for nearly the whole time I've been alive. With the exception of the last 4-5 years. But I still don't really care all that much about the North. After a while you tune out the repeated violence, punishments, crime, and "freedom fighters".

dabhoys wrote:

I just can't accept the fact the law enforment agencies and government officials of this country believed this parade weather it was legal or not was going to go down peacefully.

Maybe, but what choice did they really have. If you're around here on these boards for long, you'll notice the amount of criticism that the Gardai receive regarding marches. To actually deny a political march? They'd be ripped to shreds.

And thats just on these boards. Irish political parties have willpowers that cave in at the least aggression. There's very little chance the Gardai would have received any support from the government of they had wanted to ban this march. Freedom of speech, freedom of expression etc.

dabhoys wrote:

Do you think the police or government officials in the states would allow such a rally even if its there right to have a parade??? It was a melting pot for disaster to be honest.

And you're comparing two very different governments, with very different resources. Perhaps use Neo-Nazi marches in Germany as an example~? But then even then the German governments tend to have more willpower, and intelligence than our own government.

dabhoys

I'm sorry I can't just tune out of the troubles that my family have had to go through. It part of my heritage and where I come from. I'm not going to forget that my grandad was not aloud to get work because he was catholic. I'm not going to forget my great grandfather lost his leg fighting for the very freedom you enjoy today. Excuse me but I'm not just going to forget it.

I'm all for peace and I've no problem with the march and I really dont care. I find the whole situation laughable. The gardai and the government signed themselves up for the mess. The gardai shouldn't be worried bout popularity if they feel that there is a threat to the general public the march shouldn't be aloud to go ahead. Wether it be an abortion rally, gay rights or whatever. The gardai should do what is in the best interests for the public. Not there popularity.

Any government with there head screwed on would stop a demonstration or organised protest that they deemed to be dangerous to the general public. Resources has nothing to do with it. I won't accept civil rights as a reason to be aloud to march when its obvious there is going to be trouble. Why did they have to march in dublin? I mean when did the last 'loyalist' die from the troubles in Dublin? In there views dublin isn't the capital either. Why didn't they march in london? I don't get it. The whole thing makes no sense. How is it their Civil right of this country to march here if they don't even consider themselves irish???

The people on sat don't represent me and my opinions or the opinions of many other people like me. They we're mostly a bunch of knackers looking to cause trouble. Sure 3 of the 40 arrested weren't even Irish!!!! Hmm wat does that say.

I also don't believe for one second that Sinn Fein had anything to do with the orchestration of any of sat events.

Deleted User wrote:

I could easily say that my own opinion is that the North is part of British Territory, and that Irish (within the Republic) history ignores the north from the creation of the Republic onwards. Afterall it was only after I left School & college that I encountered any real information on the subject involving the north. Prior to the Republic's creation, the North was a huge part of it, but after? Not our history.

And I agree. The North has been a crapfest for nearly the whole time I've been alive. With the exception of the last 4-5 years. But I still don't really care all that much about the North. After a while you tune out the repeated violence, punishments, crime, and "freedom fighters".



Maybe, but what choice did they really have. If you're around here on these boards for long, you'll notice the amount of criticism that the Gardai receive regarding marches. To actually deny a political march? They'd be ripped to shreds.

And thats just on these boards. Irish political parties have willpowers that cave in at the least aggression. There's very little chance the Gardai would have received any support from the government of they had wanted to ban this march. Freedom of speech, freedom of expression etc.



And you're comparing two very different governments, with very different resources. Perhaps use Neo-Nazi marches in Germany as an example~? But then even then the German governments tend to have more willpower, and intelligence than our own government.

dabhoys

dabhoys wrote:

I'm sorry I can't just tune out of the troubles that my family have had to go through. It part of my heritage and where I come from. I'm not going to forget that my grandad was not aloud to get work because he was catholic.

Fine. Don't. Thats your choice. Your history. Nothing to do with me.

I'm not going to forget my great grandfather lost his leg fighting for the very freedom you enjoy today. Excuse me but I'm not just going to forget it.

Nice try at a guilt trip. :rolleyes: My family had its own share of grief during the War of Independence. You'll be hard pressed to find many families that didn't have some involvement.

But that was your grandfather's choice. How does your family choosing to live in the North affect my freedom?

The gardai and the government signed themselves up for the mess. The gardai shouldn't be worried bout popularity if they feel that there is a threat to the general public the march shouldn't be aloud to go ahead. Wether it be an abortion rally, gay rights or whatever. The gardai should do what is in the best interests for the public. Not there popularity.

Good speech. Lets talk about reality now. Not going to happen. The Gardai will look to where their purse strings are held. Those politicians will in turn look to their supporters and the media. And considering the Media, and other citizens opinions of previous marches, they're going to avoid stepping on too many toes if they can avoid it.

Why did they have to march in dublin? I mean when did the last 'loyalist' die from the troubles in Dublin? In there views dublin isn't the capital either. Why didn't they march in london? I don't get it. The whole thing makes no sense. How is it their Civil right of this country to march here if they don't even consider themselves irish???

Man, I totally agree. But then I have very little patience with people that moan about civil rights, when we have plenty already. I also didn't believe that Unionists should be marching in Dublin. After all we're not even part of the Union. lol

The people on sat don't represent me and my opinions or the opinions of many other people like me. They we're mostly a bunch of knackers looking to cause trouble. Sure 3 of the 40 arrested weren't even Irish!!!! Hmm wat does that say.

They don't really represent anyone in particular. thats the problem. They just represented the increasing amount of violence thats becoming fashionable these days.

I also don't believe for one second that Sinn Fein had anything to do with the orchestration of any of sat events.

Me Neither. And personally I despise SF and think they're complete morons.

hmmm

dabhoys wrote:

Any government with there head screwed on would stop a demonstration or organised protest that they deemed to be dangerous to the general public.

I'm really sorry to break it to you but I didn't see anyone in the march on Saturday rioting.

Stones don't throw themselves. I don't think it was Fine Gael supporters out there hurling petrol bombs at the police. The danger to the public came from the activities of those who were trying to stop the parade.

We can't allow the activities or "concerns" of a bunch of undemocratic thugs to dictate what we can and can't do as a state.

Akrasia

there is some very good and honest coverage on indymedia for anyone who is interested.

LORDOFDOOM

dbnavan wrote:

Talk about narrow minded, stereotyping. I know some absolute gentlemen, that live in 'rough' housing estates, and the boys that killed that bloke outside annabells few years back where from 'upper class southside'. So that arguement is pure c**p and gets me going every time.

It just shows the lack of substance you have to those arguements when the only case of "upper class southside" thuggery is one from 2 years ago.

Fair enough it happened, but compared to that one case of someone being beaten to death outside a club, how many times a week do you hear of people from working class areas beating each other to death outside clubs/pubs etc?

The arguement hold's no water. I didn't see too many "poshies" overturning cars in any videos. Maybe it was just a coincidence :rolleyes:

Hobbes

This is a good piece..
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74528

Whats interesting of note in this is that SF were actively telling members not to show up.

The Corinthian

Akrasia wrote:

there is some very good and honest coverage on indymedia for anyone who is interested.

Or if you want to save yourself the trouble of reading said "good and honest coverage", the punchline is that global Capitalism is apparantly to blame for the riots :rolleyes:

The_Minister

Akrasia wrote:

there is some very good and honest coverage on indymedia.

:rolleyes:

The_Minister

dabhoys wrote:

Why did they have to march in dublin? I mean when did the last 'loyalist' die from the troubles in Dublin? In there views dublin isn't the capital either. Why didn't they march in london? I don't get it. The whole thing makes no sense. How is it their Civil right of this country to march here if they don't even consider themselves irish???.

Why do people keep asking this? The whole point of the march was to force the IRISH government to deal with the missing bodies etc. from SF past.

lostexpectation

this image fills in another bit of the timeline i was confused about riot gaurds coming over the millenium brigde

go to her main page for a few more

http://lorraine.thewonderoflight.com/Most%20Recent/images/riot%20018small.jpg

Zombrex

dabhoys wrote:

Everyone here has ignored my comparison to a KKK parade in Harlem!!! Think about it. Do you think the police or government officials in the states would allow such a rally even if its there right to have a parade??? It was a melting pot for disaster to be honest.

Groups like the KKK are allowed to march in the States, even through black areas.

There are laws in the USA to protect marches against being banned on the grounds that they might cause a public disturbance. Why? Because it is a tactic that is used around the world to stifle marches of unpopular view points. If a government wants to stop an march they, or the public in general, don't agree with they can just say it will cause a disturbance and bob's your uncle, march stopped.

This was a tactic used by New York police after 9/11 when a number of Muslims, and Islamic groups tried to protest against discrimination against Muslims following the attacks. The police arrested the protestors because a large crowd of angry non-Muslim New Yorkers had started stoning the tiny group of Muslim New Yorkers protesting. The case against the protesters was thrown out, because you cannot blame a protest if it causes a volient response from those observing the protest.

It flies against the indea of democractic decent and protest.

dabhoys

It's indirect relationship don't misquote what I said. I'm not agreeing with the rioters and I never said it was the marchers. I'm saying the government and gardai are to blame for the way the whole thing was handled and approached from the get go. Gotta love politics in this country its really a joke. I've never had any faith in the gardai or the government. It's quite sad but I just get on with things and have a good laugh at all this to be quite honest. To top it all off were going to make the gardai even worse by getting volunteer law enforcement. As if the Gardai wasn't enough a Mickey Mouse Club as is. The people on saturday did what they did because they were hell bent on causing trouble and have no fear of the gardai and to be honest why should they. I have no faith in them.

Sorry to break it to you hmm. I'm not some stupud yuppy yob or some idiot. I'm entitled to my opinion and I will stand by it. I'm not blaming the marchers like I said I couldn't care let them march away. It's the government and gardai I'm talking about here.

hmmm wrote:

I'm really sorry to break it to you but I didn't see anyone in the march on Saturday rioting.

Stones don't throw themselves. I don't think it was Fine Gael supporters out there hurling petrol bombs at the police. The danger to the public came from the activities of those who were trying to stop the parade.

We can't allow the activities or "concerns" of a bunch of undemocratic thugs to dictate what we can and can't do as a state.

lostexpectation

Wicknight wrote:

Groups like the KKK are allowed to march in the States, even through black areas.

It flies against the indea of democractic decent and protest.

yes they may be allowed but they still get a reaction and trouble enuses with the police, this happened this week in some town in america and remember those videos of riots with police last autumn in the US too.

i keep hearing how they should have used tear gas they should have used water cannon, they should have charged more

water cannon on that street would have hit so many innocent people and can you imagine what would have happened if the water cannon hit a pile of debris and sent that flying at crowds,

tear gas might have been seemingly less violent but still would have affected thousands of passersby and baton charges too,

the GRA rep said that oconnell street was specificaly cleared of works and debris in may 2004 for the EU protest even though it was never going to be a clash point

the only thing that would have made a difference were bigger numbers of police to corale riotors but again on o'connell building site full of shoppers this would not have worked properly

only solution don't have a loyalist march on o'connell street

hmmm

dabhoys wrote:

Sorry to break it to you hmm. I'm not some stupud yuppy yob or some idiot. I'm entitled to my opinion and I will stand by it. I'm not blaming the marchers like I said I couldn't care let them march away. It's the government and gardai I'm talking about here.

You've changed your tune then, a page ago you wanted the march banned if there was a threat of a disturbance.

Wicknight posted an excellent explanation as to why causing offence to someone is not a good enough reason (on its own) to ban anything. Particularly important is not allowing a mob to decide what can and cannot go ahead.

I don't like the anti abortion protesters outside the GPO. If I went up and started firebombing their little group, should they be the ones arrested or should they be banned from protesting because of my reaction?

dabhoys

Firespinner wrote:

Why do people keep asking this? The whole point of the march was to force the IRISH government to deal with the missing bodies etc. from SF past.

So in your opinion what can this irish government do to help them?

Meh

dabhoys wrote:

I won't accept civil rights as a reason to be aloud to march when its obvious there is going to be trouble.

So you think the unionist government was right to ban civil rights marches in Northern Ireland during the 1960s, because of intimidation by loyalist rioters? After all, it's clear there was going to be trouble at Burntollet and in Derry on Bloody Sunday!

dabhoys

I'm not saying to ban this march. If it had been an abortion rally on sat, I couldn't care about them marching. But if the gardai felt that this would lead to the harm of the general public then the parade shouldn't be aloud to going ahead.

There is a difference between me not caring about the unionist march and any march being aloud to go ahead if there was fear of violence.

So no I don't care about them marching. I really don't, but if there is a threat to public safety gardai should not allow it.

hmmm wrote:

You've changed your tune then, a page ago you wanted the march banned if there was a threat of a disturbance.

Wicknight posted an excellent explanation as to why causing offence to someone is not a good enough reason (on its own) to ban anything. Particularly important is not allowing a mob to decide what can and cannot go ahead.

dabhoys

It wasn't loyalist protesters that stopeed the civil rights march's in the north it was the RUC and the B-Special, they tried to silence the unrest of catholics in the north as they were persecuted and discriminated against and were holding a peaceful demonstration. Totally different situation.

Your going to tell me that democratic, you needed to baton charge a peaceful protest with police and army.

Meh wrote:

So you think the unionist government was right to ban civil rights marches in Northern Ireland during the 1960s, because of intimidation by loyalist rioters?

Meh

dabhoys wrote:

Learn your history, it wasn't loyalist protesters that stopeed the civil rights march's in the north it was the RUC and the B-Special, they tried to silence the unrest of catholics in the north as they were persecuted and discriminated against and were holding a peaceful demonstration. Totally different situation.

Your going to tell me that democratic, you needed to baton charge a peaceful protest with police and army.

Actually, I'm well aware of my history. The loyalists threatened and used violence against the civil rights marchers, and the unionist establishment used the loyalist violence as a pretext to ban the civil rights marches on the grounds of "public safety". And you're saying that this is fine, and that using intimidation and threats to prevent peaceful protests is just fine by you, and that democratic governments should give in to this tactic.