Unseen footage of the riots.

ThatBloke

I heard from a Garda that the Bangarda (sp?) who was injured was dragged into a pub by a gang of scum, who locked the door behind them, kicked the **** out of her then threw her back out on the street.

Trotter

ullu wrote:

I wrote a lengthy response to this last night but my computer decided to randomly switch of and then refuse to reconnect to the internet. Basically, if you have a problem with the judicial system, that's fine. However, you said that you were ashamed to be Irish on the basis of yesterday's events. To use an analogy, if you drive a car and hear of yet another drink-driving related death, you're not going to be ashamed to be a driver. If you're ashamed to be Irish in general, that's your choice but if you're basing this feeling on two things as small as a faulty judicial system and cretinous filthbags running around causing havoc for a while in town, then I think you are mistaken.

Put it this way.. the pictures were on Sky News and I felt ashamed.. I didnt want people that share my nationality on people's TV screens in other countries burning cars out with my flag wrapped around them. So.. right or wrong.. I felt ashamed to be Irish at that moment in time. The rugby today is helping though!!

Guy:Incognito

SebtheBum wrote:

Then, essentially you and I (and most ppl) are in agreement.

Basically, what I'm trying to get across if that blaming Police/Security Force's inaction, indecision, and incompetence on political correctness, is frankly nuts.

If a Garda Commissioner, or TD, or Army Commandant fails to act because he fears Public Opinion, then he shouldn't be in the fcuking job. Pure and Simple.

What about fearing repercussions, like they did after the may stuff?

Trotter

SebtheBum wrote:

Basically, what I'm trying to get across if that blaming Police/Security Force's inaction, indecision, and incompetence on political correctness, is frankly nuts.

If a Garda Commissioner, or TD, or Army Commandant fails to act because he fears Public Opinion, then he shouldn't be in the fcuking job. Pure and Simple.

I agree!... and I think theres plenty of senior management that need to have a look at their own position today. Decisions needed to be made yesterday that were not made. Ive heard from people I know in the security forces that they think the same as me.. nobody wanted to be the one that gave the go ahead for may day part 2.. some of the ones who were involved in may day 1 are still in desk jobs. I believe people thought of their own careers first, and their obligation to the people second.

I think you can link that fear to make hard decisions back to the fact that ordering a baton charge leaves you in a position to be battered in the press, and I believe the writers that criticise such actions first and consider the actions second are working from a basis of political correctness.. eg If I write in the Independent tomorrow that I would have loved to see them being kicked up and down by 100 of our biggest narkiest Gardaí, I can assure you, I'd be criticised by a very vocal minority of "tree huggers".. who believe that violence is bad mmmkay.. and we should teach them yoga, not kick them.

Its my opinion... maybe Im the only one that links it all back to a fear of verbal and written attacks by the PC brigade. I think I am entitled to that opinion though. Anyone agree?? Anyone???

Cosine

murphaph wrote:

You're going off on a tangent there Cosine

Quite possibly but it is true.

Trotter

Irish Riot Police... Big gaps, outnumbered , defensive stance without having an offensive capability (due to lack of numbers).


Chinese Riot Police... No shortage of numbers there then..


Argentinian Riot Police..
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/mike.werner/BlogPics/Uniformed-Argentina-1.jpg
Now thats progress.


Not sure how to put the images straight into the post, sorry! The insert image option isnt there.

projectmayhem

Trotter wrote:

Chinese Riot Police... No shortage of numbers there then..

china ftw

muletide

Trotter wrote:

Irish Riot Police... Big gaps, outnumbered , defensive stance without having an offensive capability (due to lack of numbers).


Chinese Riot Police... No shortage of numbers there then..


Argentinian Riot Police..
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/mike.werner/BlogPics/Uniformed-Argentina-1.jpg
Now thats progress.


Not sure how to put the images straight into the post, sorry! The insert image option isnt there.

Public Order Tactics which we took on from Manchester Police no longer use compact lines. The Gardai are however missing a second and third rank behind the front line. The idea is to maintain momentum and canalise the rioters into a certain idea.
The gaps in the front rank are left there on purpose so that the 2nd and 3rd ranks can rush through and use the shock effect to drive back rioters and this process is repeated it is actually quiet effective.

If you form a solid base line like a roman legion you only invite attack and gain no ground.

So yes that is progress

Trotter

muletide wrote:

Public Order Tactics which we took on from Manchester Police no longer use compact lines. The Gardai are however missing a second and third rank behind the front line. The idea is to maintain momentum and canalise the rioters into a certain idea.
The gaps in the front rank are left there on purpose so that the 2nd and 3rd ranks can rush through and use the shock effect to drive back rioters and this process is repeated it is actually quiet effective.

If you form a solid base line like a roman legion you only invite attack and gain no ground.

So yes that is progress

But if you know that you dont have the numbers to gain ground.. i.e. the 2nd and 3rd rows are missing.. then surely you revert to compact line tactics until your support arrives? Its hardley progressive to stand there defensively (right leg behind the left, left leg bent etc), using an offensive tactic that needs three rows for it to work?

muletide

Trotter wrote:

But if you know that you dont have the numbers to gain ground.. i.e. the 2nd and 3rd rows are missing.. then you revert to compact line tactics? Its hardley progressive to stand there defensively, using an offensive tactic that needs three rows for it to work?

You would think that but they obviously were under orders to clear the street so they had to make do with what they had. In that picture they are not beng defensive they are working their way down O Connell St.

In fairness they are some brave gardai to advance in that formation without any depth

robinph

muletide wrote:

The gaps in the front rank are left there on purpose so that the 2nd and 3rd ranks can rush through and use the shock effect to drive back rioters and this process is repeated it is actually quiet effective.

Shame that they only read the first paragraph of the training manual then where it said to leave gaps in the first line and missed the rest of the plan out that would actually make it an effective method. Going in like that its pretty much every man for himself with all the gaps in the line and no backup.

arbeitsscheuer

robinph wrote:

Shame that they only read the first paragraph of the training manual then where it said to leave gaps in the first line and missed the rest of the plan out that would actually make it an effective method. Going in like that its pretty much every man for himself with all the gaps in the line and no backup.

Yep, spot on.

Even the dimmest scumbag would identify how to isolate and annihilate (for want of a better word) each Riot Garda in turn.

Divide and Conquer... Doesn't work on a Roman legion-esque solid front line, built for defence, which is what the Riot police should've done. But it's hardly they're fault that they're so outnumbered, isolated, and underequipped - what the fcuk happened to the Water Cannon they used on peaceful protesters (myself included) in the Protest Against Bush March of June 2004??? Surely that woulda been a lot more fcuking use this time.

Trotter

muletide wrote:

You would think that but they obviously were under orders to clear the street so they had to make do with what they had. In that picture they are not beng defensive they are working their way down O Connell St.

In fairness they are some brave gardai to advance in that formation without any depth

Absolutely.. Fair play to the Gardai for doing what they could.. again its the commanders that F'd up here. Who decided to move down O'Connoll St in a formation like that with one third of the force needed?? One person made that call.

SebtheBum wrote:

what the fcuk happened to the Water Cannon they used on peaceful protesters (myself included) in the Protest Against Bush March of June 2004??? Surely that woulda been a lot more fcuking use this time.

We dont own any water cannons.. they borrowed the ones they used in June from the PSNI as far as I remember.

riptide

Trotter wrote:

Irish Riot Police... Big gaps, outnumbered , defensive stance without having an offensive capability (due to lack of numbers).


Chinese Riot Police... No shortage of numbers there then..


Argentinian Riot Police..
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/mike.werner/BlogPics/Uniformed-Argentina-1.jpg
Now thats progress.


Not sure how to put the images straight into the post, sorry! The insert image option isnt there.

Legend.!! Those Argentian guys are like a line of terminators

gandalf

SebtheBum wrote:

what the fcuk happened to the Water Cannon they used on peaceful protesters (myself included) in the Protest Against Bush March of June 2004??? Surely that woulda been a lot more fcuking use this time.

They borrowed that from the PSNI, we don't own one.......figures really.

muletide

I agree it was a risky call but it had to be done. The alternative was to sit and wait for re-enforcements to arrive, and in the meantime O Connell St would have burned to the ground.

The army would have taken at least an hour to deploy and at that they would only have 100 troops max ready to go at that short notice. Soldiers dont sit in barracks all weekend waiting for riots. It would have taken up to 12 hours before any serious amount of troops could be on the streets.

So someone made a call thats what they are paid to do and it worked out. they cleared O Connel st with only 4 casualties while being seriously oiutnumbered thats a fair achievement. Someone will be getting alot of praise monday morning at work and he/she deserves it

arbeitsscheuer

gandalf wrote:

They borrowed that from the PSNI, we don't own one.......figures really.

Since we had a march which was basically from a political movement based in Northern Ireland yesterday, surely we should've turned to the PSNI for advice, tactics and equipment, given that they have a fcukload more experience of such events than an Garda Siochana.

Jesus, do I have to do all the thinking for our Police force?!?!:eek: :rolleyes:

muletide

SebtheBum wrote:

Since we had a march which was basically from a political movement based in Northern Ireland yesterday, surely we should've turned to the PSNI for advice, tactics and equipment, given that they have a fcukload more experience of such events than an Garda Siochana.

Jesus, do I have to do all the thinking for our Police force?!?!:eek: :rolleyes:

your some man seb tell us more about the time you fought the law

Yawn

Trotter

muletide wrote:

I agree it was a risky call but it had to be done. The alternative was to sit and wait for re-enforcements to arrive, and in the meantime O Connell St would have burned to the ground.

The army would have taken at least an hour to deploy and at that they would only have 100 troops max ready to go at that short notice. Soldiers dont sit in barracks all weekend waiting for riots. It would have taken up to 12 hours before any serious amount of troops could be on the streets.

So someone made a call thats what they are paid to do and it worked out. they cleared O Connel st with only 4 casualties while being seriously oiutnumbered thats a fair achievement. Someone will be getting alot of praise monday morning at work and he/she deserves it

Yes.. whoever commanded those Gardai on the ground deserves commendation, as do the front line themselves. Its the lad in Harcourt Square who decided there were enough police on duty that needs to have a little think. There was an announcement on the radio that all off duty Gardai were to report to their stations.. that certainly filled me full of confidence in their senior management!

As for the army.. they'd have been there in 10 minutes. They had good numbers that were sitting ready to move.

riptide

gandalf wrote:

They borrowed that from the PSNI, we don't own one.......figures really.

Ah jesus. Typical. With all the Celtic tigers and the rest would ya not think that we'd have some fully equip unit for civil control. This country needs a shakedown from the top to bottom.

riptide

The War Dept. wrote:

he he he

Thats great man!

The War Dept.

he he he

arbeitsscheuer

Trotter wrote:

As for the army.. they'd have been there in 10 minutes. They had good numbers that were sitting ready to move.

Concur.

They had already been activated (again, for want of a better word) since early yesterday morning. That is to say, a large force were ready in the barracks in the (at the time unlikely) event that the situation surrounding the march would become so dire that they would be called in.

I spoken to those who know or are related to some of those soldiers (altho admittedly no soldiers themselves as yet, worse luck) and all who spoke to them said that they got the impression that the troops were disappointed and annoyed that they were never called upon - or at least weren't called upon until the stage when the riots were subsiding anyway.

Note, the riots were not quelled - they subsided. There is a crucial difference, it ain't just semantics: Quelled means that the Gardai got on top of the riots and dissipated them. Subsided means the Rioters smashed the place up, satisfied their lust for carnage, and then bogged off home.

Shrimp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zUof-Q3i3k

Here's some of my own footage from it, It's been slightly dramatised, but I'm going to upload a clip of unedited material too..

The War Dept.

he he he he

riptide

The War Dept. wrote:

he he he he

Thats good and so is yours shrimp....!

county

gets funnier every time i see it

Trotter

SebtheBum wrote:

Concur.

They had already been activated (again, for want of a better word) since early yesterday morning. That is to say, a large force were ready in the barracks in the (at the time unlikely) event that the situation surrounding the march would become so dire that they would be called in.

I spoken to those who know or are related to some of those soldiers (altho admittedly no soldiers themselves as yet, worse luck) and all who spoke to them said that they got the impression that the troops were disappointed and annoyed that they were never called upon - or at least weren't called upon until the stage when the riots were subsiding anyway.

Note, the riots were not quelled - they subsided. There is a crucial difference, it ain't just semantics: Quelled means that the Gardai got on top of the riots and dissipated them. Subsided means the Rioters smashed the place up, satisfied their lust for carnage, and then bogged off home.

Trust me.. they were fired up and ready to go.. they were gutted to miss out on showing the public they're highly trained for this and wanted to fix the problem. I think they should have been given the chance.

The War Dept.

didn't show in my browser

usual suspects he he

Alkers

HelterSkelter wrote:

Call me a cynic but...

- why were the weapons (bricks, poles, etc) left in O'Connell Street?
- why were there so few riot cops?
- why were the "protestors" allowed take control of much of the city centre for up to three hours?
- why were they not contained in O'Connell Street?
- why were the army not sent in?
- why was the march allowed happen at all?

With Sinn Fein's popularity growing in the Republic this will cost them votes. People who might have been fooled by the Sinn Fein PR machine will think twice when they see the photos in the papers tomorrow.

Bertie & co must be very happy about that.

No weapons were left in O'Connel street. It's a builing site FFS. It was cordened off as any building site is and it was simply broken into. It was a very stupid decision to let a march go around a building site, never mind this sort of march, never mind to let it happen in the first place. As a result of the riot, the building work on the site has been delayed by a minimum of 2 weeks and approx. €50,000 damage has been done on that site alone. Never mind the cars which are probably around €20,000 each so the initial figures of estimated damage are way off the mark. Whoever gave the go ahead for this march has a lot to answer for imho.