When should the FAIR march be rescheduled for?

IrishAirCorps

Yesterday i was disgusted to Call myself Irish, just watching it on Sky News made me feel ill, have those fcukwits ever heard of "Europe" ? This type of thing should not have happened in our Great Country those people dont recognise the Irish Government who were voted in by the people and they dont recognise An Garda Siochana and The real Irish Defence Forces "Oglaigh na hEireann", i sincerely hope nobody here condones what we and quite possibly the world witnessed on Sky News.

murphaph

Commander Vimes wrote:

the point is that i don't want to wait three years or whatever to voice my dissatisfaction with the government. you're saying that the march was approved by the government so we should just have let it go ahead. doesn't that effectively make the right to protest pointless? if all we do is say "ooo that pissed me off. just wait until 2008. ill show them"

baring in mind i don't support any of the violence from yesterday

You can of course make your peaceful protestations to government by lobbying them, contacting your TDs, councillors or standing outside DE with a placard, whatever, so long as it's peaceful, but yes, ultimately in any functioning dmocracy, you only really get to 'show them' at the polls.

Freelancer

Bitter hatreds that underpin Love Ulster parade in Dublin

25/02/2006

The organisers of today's event have every right to come to Dublin to express their grief and anger at being bereaved by the IRA. But they must face some unpalatable truths, writes Susan McKay.

As soon as he heard that the Rev Ian Paisley had stood up in the House of Commons and said Eugene Reavey was responsible for the Kingsmills massacre, Alan Black went straight to the Reaveys' house in Whitecross, south Armagh. He told Reavey that he knew he was innocent.

This was in 1999. Black was the sole survivor of the sectarian massacre, which saw up to a dozen IRA gunmen ambush a bus carrying workmen home in January 1976. They lined the men up and raked them with automatic gunfire. Ten men died. Black was hit 18 times.

Families Acting for Innocent Relatives (Fair) is to hold a rally in Dublin today to draw attention to the suffering of the victims of terrorism. However, this is an organisation which has effectively branded an innocent Catholic man the mass murderer of his Protestant neighbours, causing him intense anguish and, inevitably, putting his life at risk.

The PSNI has stated that it had no reason to suspect Reavey of any crime, let alone of masterminding one of the worst atrocities of the Troubles. But Fair defiantly continues to carry the allegation through a link to Paisley's speech on its website, despite repeated demands by the police for it to be removed.

Reavey witnessed the immediate aftermath of the massacre, which took place near his home. He was driving to Newry and happened upon it. He and his family were on their way to Daisy Hill hospital to collect the bodies of two of his brothers, John (24) and Brian (22).

They had been shot dead the previous night when loyalist gunmen burst into the family home. Three members of another local Catholic family were also murdered that night.

Reavey was also going to visit his younger brother, Anthony, who had been badly injured in the attack. The bodies of the murdered workmen were being brought into the mortuary when he arrived. He went into the room where the shattered families were gathering, and wept with them. Alan Black and Anthony Reavey shared a hospital room. Black lived. Reavey died.

Black has said that earlier on the day they met their deaths, the men on the bus had spoken with horror about the murders of the young Reaveys. He has remained a close friend of the Reavey family since the events of those terrible days.

Paisley's Westminster claim, that Reavey was a "well-known Republican" who had "set up" the massacre, was made under parliamentary privilege.

He spoke of the "wild men" of the IRA who were free because the British government had not been ruthless enough in putting down terrorism. He said his information came from police files.

The deputy first minister, the SDLP's Séamus Mallon, expressed outrage. Reavey went to the chief constable of the RUC, Ronnie Flanagan. Flanagan said he had "absolutely no evidence whatsoever" to connect him with the massacre, and that no police file contained any such allegation.

Paisley has not retracted it, and on the 30th anniversary of the massacre this January, Willie Frazer, Fair's leading spokesman, and DUP MP Jeffrey Donaldson claimed once again to know the perpetrators.

The Reavey murders were carried out by a gang which included men who were dual members of the illegal UVF and the British security forces. This gang was responsible for multiple sectarian murders, including the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombs, which killed 33 people.

Evidence including the testimony of a former member of the gang suggests that Robert McConnell, a UDR soldier, was a member. Before he died, Anthony Reavey described one of the gunmen who shot him. It was an accurate description of McConnell.

He was murdered by the IRA later in 1976. When Fair was set up in 1998, to remember what "Irish republican death squads" had done to south Armagh Protestants, "without justification or reprisal", his nephew, Brian, became a prominent member.

Willie Frazer is open about his belief that the loyalist paramilitaries were a necessary part of the war against the IRA. During a protest against the release of republican prisoners as part of the Good Friday agreement, he was asked about loyalist prisoners. "They should never have been locked up in the first place," he replied.

He told me once that, while he didn't condone the murder of "innocent Catholics", he had "a lot of time for Billy Wright", who "called a spade a spade". The notorious loyalist broke away from the UVF to form the Loyalist Volunteer Force in 1996 to kill Catholics in support of the Orange Order's right to march through the Catholic part of Portadown.

Another Drumcree supporter said of Wright, "He may be a psychopath, but he's our psychopath". Since 1996 at least 12 people, including three children, have been murdered in parades-related violence.

Frazer, who is an Orangeman and an Apprentice Boy, said he understood why soldiers and police passed information about republicans to loyalists. He applied for a weapon for his personal protection and was turned down in 2003 because, according to police, of "reliable intelligence" that he "associated with loyalist terrorist organisations". He denied it and sought a judicial review - it was refused in 2004.

The Orange Order welcomed the UDA leader, Johnny "Mad Dog" Adair to the Portadown protest in 2000.

Last summer, after the Parades Commission put restrictions on the Order's Whiterock Road parade, Paisley declared: "This could be the spark that kindles a fire there will be no putting out." The UVF offered to force the march along the order's preferred route (past Catholic homes).

The order called the people out to support it. Days and nights of violence followed. Orangemen lunged with pikes and ceremonial swords at policemen. There were shouts of: "Are youse Fenians in disguise?"

Today's event is billed as a Love Ulster rally. This campaign was launched last July with the symbolic landing at Larne harbour of bales of newspapers, bearing the title "Love Ulster". This recalled 1914 when the UVF ran guns to Larne to arm unionists against Home Rule. At least one loyalist paramilitary leader was among those unloading the papers, smiling cheerfully for the invited cameras.

The July publication is full of harrowing accounts by victims and survivors of IRA atrocities, including Bloody Friday, La Mon, Kingsmills, Enniskillen and Shankill.

There are photographs of carnage. Alan McBride, whose wife died in the Shankill bomb in 1993, said of the paper: "Blood was pouring from it".

However, it saddened him that there was no acknowledgment that the unionist community had "caused pain and grief as well".

Catholics feature in "Love Ulster" as IRA killers. Paisley declared at an Independent Orange Order gathering in 1997 that "the entire pan-nationalist front is united behind the beast of fascism, the IRA".

Love Ulster warns that Ulster is at "crisis point" and on the verge of being "sold out" into a United Ireland. It calls on Protestants to unite. This call for ethnic solidarity and militancy is the core of DUP politics. It was also a founding principle of the Orange Order.

Soon after its formation at the end of the 18th century, an Armagh squire wrote of his reliance on the local "Bleary Boys". These were "stout Protestants of a character somewhat lawless", but loyal.

Fair and the DUP insist the war is not over and that the enemy can still be defeated. A previous effort led by Drumcree stalwarts to rally Protestants around a new Ulster covenant was launched in Ballymena in 2001 with calls from one speaker for "B52 bombers over Dublin".

Willie Frazer is a hurt man. The IRA murdered his father and four of his relations. Michelle Williamson, whose parents were killed in the Shankill bomb, expressed the intensity of this pain when she said of the surviving bomber, Seán Kelly: "You are like a disease in my bones, and the only cure is justice. To say I hate you doesn't begin to describe how I feel."

Robert McConnell may have murdered the Reaveys but to his family he was the man who looked after his sick brother and disabled sister.

The families bereaved by the IRA have every right to their grief and their anger, and every right to come to Dublin to express it. The news that the bands which will accompany today's parade will not play as they pass the sites of the Dublin bombs is welcome.

Fair, Frazer admitted to a House of Commons select committee hearing last year, is controversial. "We are seen as the bad boys within the victims sector," he said.

This is largely because of its aggressive insistence that there are "innocent" and "genuine" and "real" victims, and there are others who have no right to call themselves victims at all.

According to Fair and the DUP, Eugene Reavey is in the latter category. It is an appalling lie.

© The Irish Times

---

I'm appalled by the rioting, and it's inexcusable we should have the maturity to allow loyalists to have their bloody march, but to suggest the FAIR lads are a bunch of sweethearts making a protest about IRA violence is fooling themselves, and they should not be protrayed in a postive light at the end of this.

GuanYin

I was sickened by the violence and to be honest, I think an awful lot of it was opportunistic scum wrecking havoc (looting and assaults). I hope that those arrested getthe harshest punishment available.

That said, I'm pretty dubious of the "love ulster" brigade. I heard the march organiser interviewed on the last word and despite his pleads of ignorance to many of the accusations put to him, he didn't in anyway come across as innocent. Her personally attacked a church or ireland reverent who took an opposing view to him, which didn't endear me to him either.

Most notably, he fluffled his explanation/justification of starting the march within 100 metres of

1) The Sinn Fein Offices
2) The Garden of Rememberance
3) Seomra 1916 in Colaiste Mhuire.

The whole acting upon their "constitutional right" etc etc also seemed pretty hollow, especially seeing as he dodged the question about seeing himself soley as an English citizen and not recognising the Island or Ireland or his claims as an Irishman (he called himself British at leats once).

Now, given that mentality, I'd find it hard to believe that the march was innocent.


That said, the people of Dublin should know better. Sad day for Ireland on the international stage.

Another question that has to be asked is: "How did Garda Intelligence miss this?"

I wouldn't personally have any problem with a second march, but I'd want to see serious restrictions on it.

Sir Oxman

Sand wrote:

Ive seen the photos of the Love Ulster parade as it set up getting ready to march - all it was was those old folks at the front, some parade bands, and a few union jacks and what looked like an orange lodge banner. Harmless enough, and certainly no violence came from them.

I contrasted that with the republican counter demonstrators with their "Remember Bloody Sunday" banners all dressed in heavy coats, covering their faces and looking like complete and utter scumbags. Who started the rioting again? Those patriots wasnt it? Pure scum.

As for LoveUlster.com, eh....who cares? Dont you get it? It doesnt matter if you dont like the view held by the marchers, they still have the right to express it peacefully. There are limits on free exspression, but none of them are "expressing unpopular views is illegal".

I wanted to have a read of it as I've been reading posts about this organisations beliefs etc and I'd like to find out for myself what they are about.
In that respect, I do think it's relevant as I want to understand why our Govt, as you say, on the balance of probabilities and common-sense, approved that this organisation should be allowed organise a march in Dublin.

Your "KKK should be allowed to march through an appropriate part of NY" is the same as someone opining the Love Ulster march should go ahead, but not necessarily through the heart of Dublin, and not necessarily waving union jacks and OO banners about which could be construed as provocative. Is putting restrictions on such marches (applying common sense and upholding safety of marchers and residents) against 'free speech' or just being wise?

The big annoyance I have is the inadequacy of the preparation of the authorities and the planning of this march and of course, the utter scum who took advantage of the situation.

Elmo

A "FAIR" march would be one where all sides marched together to comerate the DEATHS of innocent civilans by the British Army, Loyalist and Nationalist Paramilataries.

The loyalist seem to think that they where the only people effected by the death and destruction of the troubles.

While I disagree with people who stopped the march going a head, I can see their point of view.

Let us not forget Bloody Sunday where the british army shot dead innocent marchers.

Someone tell me how the Dublin march was a civil rights march?

It is time for us all to move on and this is not the way.

LOVE ULSTER ALL NINE.

murphaph

delah wrote:

Your "KKK should be allowed to march through an appropriate part of NY" is the same as someone opining the Love Ulster march should go ahead, but not necessarily through the heart of Dublin, and not necessarily waving union jacks and OO banners about which could be construed as provocative. Is putting restrictions on such marches (applying common sense and upholding safety of marchers and residents) against 'free speech' or just being wise?

The Union Flag flies from half the hotels in Dublin and doesn't bother anyone.

O'Connell St. is a traditional route for protests to run along. The FAI people didn't pick out as many 1916 shrines as possible to pass by, Dublin just happens to have a compact city centre where everything happens.

Elmo

The Union Flag flies from half the hotels in Dublin and doesn't bother anyone.

There are rules about foreign flags on buildings.

The Irish Flag must be the highest flag.

Sir Oxman

murphaph wrote:

The Union Flag flies from half the hotels in Dublin and doesn't bother anyone.

O'Connell St. is a traditional route for protests to run along. The FAI people didn't pick out as many 1916 shrines as possible to pass by, Dublin just happens to have a compact city centre where everything happens.

There are many other routes this okayed march could have taken - considering it's obvious sensitivity and potential for trouble.

That's my point, no foresight from our elected leaders which exacerbated the carnage in town yesterday.

The city authorities and our govt need to be brought to book and made explain why ordinary citizens going about their business were put at risk yesterday.

The scum who rioted/looted need to have the full weight of the law brought to bear against them (which probably means a suspended sentence knowing this country...)

Elmo

The scum who rioted/looted need to have the full weight of the law brought to bear against them (which probably means a suspended sentence knowing this country...)

Did the Loot? I thought to Loot was to Rob. Did the Rob anything?

Ah well I am sure the Minister for Justice will take special care for these rioters. lol

Sand

In that respect, I do think it's relevant as I want to understand why our Govt, as you say, on the balance of probabilities and common-sense, approved that this organisation should be allowed organise a march in Dublin.

The government would have to think of a good reason why they couldnt.

Your "KKK should be allowed to march through an appropriate part of NY" is the same as someone opining the Love Ulster march should go ahead, but not necessarily through the heart of Dublin, and not necessarily waving union jacks and OO banners about which could be construed as provocative. Is putting restrictions on such marches (applying common sense and upholding safety of marchers and residents) against 'free speech' or just being wise?

I didnt say they should march through "an appropriate part" of NY. Whats an appropriate part of NY for a white supremacist march exactly? If they want to march through Harlem, then other than dividing the city into White and Black areas, or Straight and Homosexual areas, or Republican and Democrat areas, theres no grounds for stopping them. NI is a ****ed up sectarian cess pit of a society, it is not the norm to only allow people to express their views in *their* areas. So long as they ( the marchers) co-operate with the police in planning the route then theyre merely exercising their rights responsibly. If others choose to use violence to attack the march, then theyre breaking the law and should be arrested. End of, tbh.

And this thing about provocation - a union jack is not provocation to anyone semi-reasonable. Are England supporters wearning jerseys and flying flags taking their lives into their hands if they attend rugby or football games here? Is a Cork man looking for a beating if he ventures into Dublin wearing his countys colours? People here were outraged when Trimble dismissed the Republic as a mono-cultural society, but we seem intent on proving him right.

murphaph

Elmo wrote:

There are rules about foreign flags on buildings.

The Irish Flag must be the highest flag.

They are called flag protocols, but there are not rules. Anyway-that's irrelevant. The Union Flag flies from many locations in Dublin every day of the week, so a few british nationals carrying one around shouldn't make the blood boil now should it? :rolleyes:

Elmo

a few british nationals carrying one around shouldn't make the blood boil now should it?

I actually find the fashion of wearing Union Jacks on tee shirts and hand bags etc. really offensive.

The Union Jack is as bad as the Staticka IMO. Why because the British also tried to take over the world, and actually got away with it.

DOLEMAN

Sarsfield wrote:

If Republicans are allowed march in Dublin then so should Unionists.

But Republicans are from our Country. Unionists are from a different Country.

I agree with a "remember the dead" march. Divisions should not exist in death.

Sir Oxman

Elmo wrote:

Did the Loot? I thought to Loot was to Rob. Did the Rob anything?

Ah well I am sure the Minister for Justice will take special care for these rioters. lol

1. Yes.
2. Probably not.

Elmo

But Republicans are from our Country. Unionists are from a different Country.

Strangly most of the TD's didn't want the Republicans marching and they did not organise that the Gardi be out and about making sure that the Republicans where safe. strange.

They will all want this Unionist march to go ahead.

What did they rob? A burger from MCs

But sure the MoJ is a unionist.

SeanW

I abhor the violence of yestarday and think very poorly of those involved, I will say this much ...

If you wanted to organise a "remember the victims of Loyalist terror ... long live 1916 ... Love Eveything Green" parade through a Loyalist area of Belfast or Derry or wherever, do you think that

1: You'd be allowed and:
2: If you did march, there wouldn't be people killed?

I agree with the whole KKK march through Harlem thing ... the group involved seem totally imbalanced in their "victim representation" and it looks like they just hate Irish people or something, so trouble should have been expected.

Most of us realise, as I do, that within limits, people have the right to be sad, bitter, backward, pathetic, hate-filled morons, those rioters obviously didn't. That's probably the saddest thing of all.

Sir Oxman

Sand wrote:

The government would have to think of a good reason why they couldnt.

I understand that.


I didnt say they should march through "an appropriate part" of NY.

Oops, apologies Sand - I misquoted, that was Snickers Man. Again, apologies :eek:


Whats an appropriate part of NY for a white supremacist march exactly? If they want to march through Harlem, then other than dividing the city into White and Black areas, or Straight and Homosexual areas, or Republican and Democrat areas, theres no grounds for stopping them. NI is a ****ed up sectarian cess pit of a society, it is not the norm to only allow people to express their views in *their* areas. So long as they ( the marchers) co-operate with the police in planning the route then theyre merely exercising their rights responsibly. If others choose to use violence to attack the march, then theyre breaking the law and should be arrested. End of, tbh.


I agree. Common sense should prevail though in decisions like this. I'm on a hunt now for any marches not allowed by our Govt and the reasons why...

And this thing about provocation - a union jack is not provocation to anyone semi-reasonable. Are England supporters wearning jerseys and flying flags taking their lives into their hands if they attend rugby or football games here? Is a Cork man looking for a beating if he ventures into Dublin wearing his countys colours? People here were outraged when Trimble dismissed the Republic as a mono-cultural society, but we seem intent on proving him right.

Everything should be in context. Marching to highlight death of loved ones and accusations of Irish Govt complicity...did they really need to bring their emblems? Really? (Of course, that is just my opinion)
The Corkman may be ill-advised to do so after all there are mountains of scumbags out there. That's his decision on weighing up the pros and cons...same with the English supporters. That is just life as we live it, unfortunately.

Freelancer

SeanW wrote:

I agree with the whole KKK march through Harlem thing ... the group involved seem totally imbalanced in their "victim representation" and it looks like they just hate Irish people or something, so trouble should have been expected.

Its been said before and will be said again the number of people with "support denmark" sig" who start talking about "limits" to free speech are just funny.

SeanW

Freelancer your post is rubbish. Did you even READ my post? I didn't say they were to blame. At no time did I suggest that they should not have been allowed to make their march. I just pointed out that if you let a whole bunch of "we hate Ireland" people march throught Dublin City Centre, trouble should have been expected.

That said they had the right to MAKE their protest and I'm all for them being cleared to try another one, just preferably with better security. It's the exact same as the Jyllands Posten affair, people have the right to be offensive etc.

murphaph

Elmo wrote:

I actually find the fashion of wearing Union Jacks on tee shirts and hand bags etc. really offensive.

The Union Jack is as bad as the Staticka IMO. Why because the British also tried to take over the world, and actually got away with it.

Have you written to your TD's and government representatives about the Union Flags which fly daily from Dublin's hotels to complain about them? Or are you not really that offended?

Freelancer

SeanW wrote:

Freelancer your post is rubbish. Did you even READ my post? I didn't say they were to blame. At no time did I suggest that they should not have been allowed to make their march. I just pointed out that if you let a whole bunch of "we hate Ireland" people march throught Dublin City Centre, trouble should have been expected.

That said they had the right to MAKE their protest and I'm all for them being cleared to try another one, just preferably with better security. It's the exact same as the Jyllands Posten affair, people have the right to be offensive etc.

The implication of your position is that since trouble should have been expected, what should have been done? The march banned?

You make a litany of tedious points about the KKK and how this was a one sided demostration and how trouble should have been expected, but offer nothing constructive, and then expect to be not laughed at while doing so with that pompous support denmark sig.

SeanW

I EXPLICITY stated in both posts that I did NOT blame the marchers for the trouble.

First post:

SeanW wrote:

I abhor the violence of yestarday and think very poorly of those involved

Most of us realise, as I do, that within limits, people have the right to be sad, bitter, backward, pathetic, hate-filled morons, those rioters obviously didn't. That's probably the saddest thing of all.

Second Post:

That said they had the right to MAKE their protest and I'm all for them being cleared to try another one, just preferably with better security. It's the exact same as the Jyllands Posten affair, people have the right to be offensive etc.

That seems very clear yet your response is to accuse me of hypocrisy and refute arguments I never made presumably so that your ridiculous rebuttal will be the only thing to stand.

I would ask you to withdraw the above.

Elmo

Have you written to your TD's and government representatives about the Union Flags which fly daily from Dublin's hotels to complain about them? Or are you not really that offended?

No. I don't over mind the union jack that much but I do view it has a symbol that I don't respect all that much.

but I was talking also about people wearing the Union Jack. (I actually feel like telling those people to stop parading around Ireland with such an Item)

IMO Wearing your national flag is disrespectful to that flag.

Cork

Binomate wrote:

I can't wait for the next march. Next time the real Irish people can show themselve to be more tolerant rather than these scumbags giving them a false representation of Ireland.

The march should be rescheduled or else the rioting scumbags would have won.

The Union Jack is as bad as the Staticka IMO. Why because the British also tried to take over the world, and actually got away with it.

This country has moved on.

What annoys me about partys like SF is that they seem to be going around with massive chips on their sholders about the Brits.

They are in a complete time wrap.

ishmael whale

SeanW wrote:

If you wanted to organise a "remember the victims of Loyalist terror ... long live 1916 ... Love Eveything Green" parade through a Loyalist area of Belfast or Derry or wherever, do you think that

1: You'd be allowed and:
2: If you did march, there wouldn't be people killed?

I think a reflection on Drumcree might be timely. When it was decided that the Garvaghy Road route was lawful, the march went ahead in the face of much stronger and more valid opposition than a few skangers. Equally, when it was decided that it was unlawful, the march was prevented from taking the route. That's what's missing in yesterday's situation - the simple ability to enforce the rule of law.

SeanW wrote:

Most of us realise, as I do, that within limits, people have the right to be sad, bitter, backward, pathetic, hate-filled morons, those rioters obviously didn't. That's probably the saddest thing of all.

I would not use your words, and feel you might even reflect on whether there's a better way of making your point. But I can largely agree with where you're coming from.

axer

Snickers Man wrote:

You're being very stupid. The rule of law, which is essential for any democracy, does make allowances for the application of common sense and the finding of a balance between the right to protest and assemble peacefully and the likely effects on inflaming local tensions.

How am I being stupid? Obviously the rule of law (and its application of common sense) failed in this instance.

Snickers Man wrote:

Comparing a march through the business district of Dublin with a march by a bunch of white supremacists through a black neigbourhood is not comparing apples with apples.Yes the KKK should be allowed to march through a suitable area of New York, (ie NOT Harlem) adequately policed and if any of their banners or speeches infringe laws against race hatred or incitement to violence, then the perpetrators should be arrested.

It is a fair comparison. The Love Ulster parade was organised to cause trouble and nothing else and one would have to be a fool to think otherwise. The application of freedom of speech would mean that the KKK would have no problems getting permission to march through harlem and I suppose the black community there would be expected to be civil.

Again, I think it was an absolute disgrace and a black mark on the Rep. of Ireland the violence that happened in Dublin. However my point is merely to show that whole freedom of speech and democracy spiel that the op spat out is just a load of sh1te.

I would support a parade whereby both sides of the divide come together and parade down o'connell street in commemoration/protest over the innocent victims of the northern troubles.

murphaph

axer wrote:

However my point is merely to show that whole freedom of speech and democracy spiel that the op spat out is just a load of sh1te.

Hmmm, I wonder would you say that if you were prevented from airing your views. Freedom of speech means defending the right of people you totally disagree with to say their peace in the manner of thir choosing, not on your terms.

axer wrote:

I would support a parade whereby both sides of the divide come together and parade down o'connell street in commemoration/protest over the innocent victims of the northern troubles.

Nobody's even asking you to support the LU parade axer. You can turn your back on it, wave black flags at it, whatever, so long as you remain peaceful I'll defend your right to free speech too.

catholicireland

They should neverbe allowed near Dublin again, it was a terrible mistake to allow them to march in the first place.
The idea of allowing this whole fiasco to take place again is mad, I can never see it happening. What would be the point? Ok, we can go on about freedom of speech, but even if there was the slightest chance of a repeat of saturday then it would simply be not worth it.

Also, from what I saw on the news of this so called "love ulster" march, all I could see was orange men in their orange uniform with drums etc. Exactly the same as an orange parade!

catholicireland

I had a post here but it was deleted. And talk about freedom of speech!

What i say is that if there is even the chance of the same carry-on as what happined on saturday then it should not go ahead. It is a joke to say that the orange men should be allowed near Dublin again!