Luas A1

Victor

bigi wrote: »

good news! I see its the first project to be use the new Strategic Infrastructure planning act. I know the intention of this is to speed things up, but how exactly?

There are substantial changes. Essentially it goes to An Bord Pleanala instead of a public inquiry (ABP are still likely to hold an Oral Hearing) and the ABP Inspector makes a recommendation to the ABP board, whose decision is final, except on points of law (planning matters can't be appealed). It is then for ABP to issue the Railway Order if it sees fit, instead of the Minister.

The Clonsilla-Pace inquiry was held last week, under practically the same rules, although there were some minor procedural differences - no fees for submissions, no application form and a few other bits.

paulm17781

Victor wrote: »

There are substantial changes. Essentially it goes to An Bord Pleanala instead of a public inquiry (ABP are still likely to hold an Oral Hearing) and the ABP Inspector makes a recommendation to the ABP board, whose decision is final, except on points of law (planning matters can't be appealed). It is then for ABP to issue the Railway Order if it sees fit, instead of the Minister.

Hypothetically that is good Is it likely to save time? I find the public enquiries can be useful but getting the projects done faster is the real importance.

trellheim

It was a kneejerk response to the Carrickmines and impending M3 doom ... to avoid getting held up by the unwashed public.

AlekSmart

Gjim is astute enough to see beyond the PPP PR puff thereby allowing a discerning observer to get the presently faint whiff of sulphur seeping from the concept.

The meld between Public and Private is always going to be a fraught one in a society such as the Modern Irish one,which has never really come to terms with wild European Protestant concepts such as "The Greater or Common Good".

Our upbringing has always taught us to value our independence of mind and spirit above all else and bejapers we are sure not going to abandon our Traditions now ,are we ??

Very shortly now we will see the the Dublin Transport Authority Bill brought forward for debate and I believe it may well have one MAJOR alteration to what was proposed by former Minister for Transport Martin Cullen.

At the launch of the DTA Implimentation Group`s report Mr Cullen began by rejecting the Groups First recommendation on having a statutory role in Dublin`s Land Use and Planning Policies.
Not alone did he reject it,but he made it clear that rejection was a CABINET decision,albeit one which rendered any DTA virtually redundant as an integral tool of Public Transport progress.

Interestingly it`s now rumoured that the NEW Bill WILL include the Land Use provision which puts a totally different complexion on things...not least from the PPP perspective ...so we may yet get to live in interesting times....thanks to Noel Dempsey...although it could also be seen as a relative weakening of the "Traditional" friendly bonds between Fianna Fail and the Building/Development industry....

Victor

Luas Line A1 Railway Order Application

About Luas Line A1

Victor

bigi wrote: »

good news! I see its the first project to be use the new Strategic Infrastructure planning act. I know the intention of this is to speed things up, but how exactly?

The RPA have an explanation here: http://www.rpa.ie/luas/railway_orders

strassenwolf

DWCommuter wrote: »

Does anyone else think that the RPA should be concentrating on speedily linking up the existing lines and building new ones in other parts of the city, instead of playing best buddies with developers on extensions to existing lines. It looks to me that the current extensions will do feck all for traffic congestion, where as new lines could make some difference. Priorities look a little compromised.

Indeed.

I was passing through Prague during the week. Around 1.3 million inhabitants.

3 excellent metro lines and 26 tram lines, serving all parts of the city.

The various bodies in Ireland still haven't managed to get their heads around the idea of a network, where there are lines serving many parts of the urban area, allowing people to travel easily between these areas.

Instead, the priority over recent years has been, largely, to facilitate developers. This usually means extending lines, as these developments are more likely to happen on the periphery rather than in already built up areas.

Hopefully the current credit squeeze will slow down the sprawl somewhat, so that the various authorities will get a chance to take stock.

Hopefully it will. But I'm not very hopeful.:mad:

bigi

Victor wrote: »

The RPA have an explanation here: http://www.rpa.ie/luas/railway_orders

Thanks Victor

Victor

So, it goes on public display today, they've fixed a few glitches on the website. Go comment!

1. This link leads to a zero-sized file with no content. This may cause a procedural issue with An Bord Pleanála if not corrected by the date (2 January 2008) of the formal submission of this documentation.

Citywest Road to Carrigmore Way - (11-LA1000GA19009A) http://www.rpa.ie/cms/download.asp?id=493

Fixed

2. The following drawing is badly digitised and illegible.

Cheeverstown Stop - (30-LA1000TO19003A) http://www.rpa.ie/cms/download.asp?id=515

[EDIT] Not fixed

3. Draft Railway (Dublin Light Rail Line A1 -Belgard to Saggart) Order 2007 http://www.rpa.ie/cms/download.asp?id=454

Note difference in preamble compared to Dunboyne Railway application.

CIÉ: Section 43 of the Transport (Infrastructure) Act 2001
RPA: section 43 of the Transport (Railway Infrastructure) Act 2001 (No. 55 of 2001)

CIÉ: Regulation of Railways Acts, 1840 – 1893
RPA: Regulation of Railways Acts 1840 to 1889

4. Draft Railway (Dublin Light Rail Line A1 -Belgard to Saggart) Order 2007 http://www.rpa.ie/cms/download.asp?id=454

Irregular titles on schedules (check agaisnt contents page).

"SEVENTH SCHEDULE
EIGHT SCHEDULE <

---

spelling
NINTH SCHEDULE
SCHEDULE 10 <

---

format
SCHEDULE 11" <

---

format

5. There is no draft explanatory note (no legal meaning anyway, but it would be useful).

6. Draft Railway (Dublin Light Rail A1 - Belgard to Saggart) Order 2007 - Book of Reference http://www.rpa.ie/cms/download.asp?id=521

Check for stray Asian characters in text - they appear intermittantly on pafes 97 and 99.

Victor

Victor wrote: »

[EDIT] Not fixed

So they eventually put the last drawing up, but as an image, not a vectored drawing.

The are building a completely new stop at Belgard. Because the new track layout can't be done until after the existing south platform is demolished, it looks like Belgard stop will have to close for a time and this will mean severe restrictions from Belgard to Tallaght or even Red Cow to Tallaght.

As I read programme of work

1 Adjust service connections as necessary for the duration
2 Construct new technical cubicle
3 Make adjustments to columns for the OHLE
4 Build Tallaght platform including the lower part of the canopy structure
5 Construct western end of Tallaght track and connect new points to existing
6 Demolish existing southern platform
7 Construct eastern end of Tallaght track and connect new curve to existing, disconnecting existing track
8 Tallaght platform becomes live
9 Remove surplus track
10 Finish Saggart/Tallaght platform
11 Construct Saggart track and connect new points to existing tracks at west end with new curve and points
12 Construct Saggart/City platform
13 Finish canopy
14 Demolish existing northern platform
15 Finish hard and soft landscaping

Close southern platform - 1 week? Close line - 1 weekend?

roughan

whats the story with the luas extention to citywest is it still going ahead?

The Real B-man

Cherrywood is first then onto Bray AFAIK.

Dennis the Stone

Should be finished by 3210

roughan

Has it even started yet ?

funk-you

Go get 'em biko!

-Funk

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

helimachoptor

Yeah its still going ahead, The land is there and pretty flat so no bridges or anything like that so it should be constructed quickly enough. I'd say start of 2010 for launch.

Maybe a mod could move this to commuting and transport...

SEPT 23 1989

its being privately funded by jim mansfield(citywest hotel) and the owners of citywest business park so it will take a quarter of the time then if it was a government run job

roughan

Ok its just u have a house up there that um thinking of selling
and the proposed station is right outside the estate
but i dont think they have even started it yet
supposed to be ready in 2009
http://buckplanning.blogspot.com/2007/04/work-begins-on-luas-extension.html

helimachoptor

roughan wrote: »

Ok its just u have a house up there that um thinking of selling
and the proposed station is right outside the estate
but i dont think they have even started it yet
supposed to be ready in 2009
http://buckplanning.blogspot.com/2007/04/work-begins-on-luas-extension.html

Same as myself but hopefully the market will rebound a bit and the LUAS line will add some more value to properties in the area.

stovelid

A railway order application has been made for the Saggart extension. AFAIK, The spur is now from the Belgard stop, and will terminate in Saggart itself, near the junction of Garter and Fortunestown Lanes. It's still mooted for 2010.

The Cherrywood extension seems to definitely underway as I've seen parts of the bridge construction.

Commuting and transport would be a better bet for Luas info.

The Scientist wrote: »

Is it going to be extended to Cork? cos if not i dont care very much for this thread.

Stop viewing it, then?

RobAMerc

my name is Vincent Salafia - I think this should not go ahead for a coupla years - I will therefore hold it up on the grounds that I wish to be a pain in the ass to every infrastructural project in Ireland.

On a different note if I hear one more announcement about transport 21, I will kill someone - how many times can they trot out the same auld shi*t without actually doing anything about it ?

AlmightyCushion

Moved from After Hours.

Victor

It is currently with An Bord Pleanála awaiting a report from their inspector which will lead to a railway order.

Sherifu

Tago Mago wrote: »

Should be finished by 3210

Someone's optimistic.

OTK

roughan wrote: »

Ok its just u have a house up there that um thinking of selling
and the proposed station is right outside the estate
but i dont think they have even started it yet
supposed to be ready in 2009
http://buckplanning.blogspot.com/2007/04/work-begins-on-luas-extension.html

The railway order application is listed here with a decision date of 17/June/2008
http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/NA0002.htm

RPA say they will complete the line by end 2010 and start services in 2011.

SteM

So how will this work in conjunction with the existing line? Someone told me that it would link with the existing link in Cookstown. Does that mean in the future if you get a Luas from from the Square they'll go less frequestly than now because they'll have to share the track with ones leaving from Citywest.

Victor

The proposal is that:

1. Heuston-Belgard will increase from 12/hour to 15/hour.
2. Belgard-Tallaght will decrease from 12/hour to 10/hour.
3. Heuston-Citywest will start with 5/hour. A shuttle will operate from Citywest to Belgard at 5/hour meeting Heuston-Tallaght trams, giving a total of 10/hour Heuston-Citywest.

dazberry

Victor wrote: »

The proposal is that:

1. Heuston-Belgard will increase from 12/hour to 15/hour.
2. Belgard-Tallaght will decrease from 12/hour to 10/hour.
3. Heuston-Citywest will start with 5/hour. A shuttle will operate from Citywest to Belgard at 5/hour meeting Heuston-Tallaght trams, giving a total of 10/hour Heuston-Citywest.

Victor - any idea why it was quoted as Heuston to [destination]? Is it just to avoid the additional confusion of any Connolly to Heuston shuttles (could any actually fit if the normal peak freqency was every 4 minutes?) or whatever other schedule changes are required when C1 comes online??

D.

loyatemu

Victor wrote: »

The proposal is that:

1. Heuston-Belgard will increase from 12/hour to 15/hour.
2. Belgard-Tallaght will decrease from 12/hour to 10/hour.
3. Heuston-Citywest will start with 5/hour. A shuttle will operate from Citywest to Belgard at 5/hour meeting Heuston-Tallaght trams, giving a total of 10/hour Heuston-Citywest.

so 15 an hour through the city centre on-street section - Tramageddon!!

weehamster

Tramageddon

I can just imagine a film of the same title starring Bruce Willis and Ben Affleck, where the two stars are on Middle Abbey Street and are running (in slow-mo of course) from a huge explosion caused by 2 trams hitting each other.

Victor

dazberry wrote: »

Victor - any idea why it was quoted as Heuston to [destination]? Is it just to avoid the additional confusion of any Connolly to Heuston shuttles (could any actually fit if the normal peak freqency was every 4 minutes?)

Thats just me simplifying things, they hope for another 3 shuttle trams Heuston-Connolly/The Point in the am peak.

dazberry wrote: »

or whatever other schedule changes are required when C1 comes online??

The hope for Tallaght-The Point and Citywest-Connolly or vice versa.

spacetweek

roughan wrote: »

Ok its just u have a house up there that um thinking of selling
and the proposed station is right outside the estate
but i dont think they have even started it yet
supposed to be ready in 2009
http://buckplanning.blogspot.com/2007/04/work-begins-on-luas-extension.html

That article is wrong. It still hasn't started.

bigi

OTK wrote: »

The railway order application is listed here with a decision date of 17/June/2008
http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/NA0002.htm

Anyone heard anything on this decision (due yesterday)?

OTK

bigi wrote: »

Anyone heard anything on this decision (due yesterday)?

The order was granted.

bigi

Thanks OTK, where did you hear this? I can't find any news on it.

OTK

Bord Pleanala has the decision and the conditions of grant available in their offices, they just haven't published it on their web site. They don't always get around to updating their site.

scab-e

Story now being carried by RTE
http://www.rte.ie/business/2008/0618/luas.html

spacetweek

Another urban sprawl nightmare (Citywest of course!) falls to public transport. As Faith No More said, "It's the small victories...."

Victor

I got a copy of the order yesterday.

Nothing major, the conditions are essentially a bunch of agreements between the RPA and SDCC. The oddest one is that SDCC is retaining ownership of land under the tramway and hte trams will operate on a public right of way.

Giblet

All we need now is Saggart to Blessington and we're away.

Ste.phen

Victor wrote: »

I got a copy of the order yesterday.

Nothing major, the conditions are essentially a bunch of agreements between the RPA and SDCC. The oddest one is that SDCC is retaining ownership of land under the tramway and hte trams will operate on a public right of way.

Would this mean that the tramway is free for public access (for example, by cyclists?)

stovelid

bigi wrote: »

Thanks OTK, where did you hear this? I can't find any news on it.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/luas-red-line-extension-on-track-after-green-light-1414661.html

scab-e

Has An Bord Pleanala refused permission for any infrastructure projects in the past 5 years? From what I can see they approve everything and are just a final delay in the system.

spacetweek

scab-e wrote: »

Has An Bord Pleanala refused permission for any infrastructure projects in the past 5 years? From what I can see they approve everything and are just a final delay in the system.

I'd like to think they they (a) realise the important of this infrastructure and don't put obstacles in the way and (b) that the projects are so carefully thought through that all potential objectionable details have already been removed by the time they reach ABP.

Well? Am I right?

L1011

Victor wrote: »

I got a copy of the order yesterday.

Nothing major, the conditions are essentially a bunch of agreements between the RPA and SDCC. The oddest one is that SDCC is retaining ownership of land under the tramway and hte trams will operate on a public right of way.

Hope someone tells Veoila's fine-giver-outers that...

Victor

Additional information added.

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/NA0002.htm

http://www.rpa.ie/luas/railway_orders/line_a1 (Preamble and Authorization and schedules seem to have been revised).

spacetweek

This one has been very quiet since they approved it. Anyone know what's going on ? It's being built with private money so the Gov's financial probs aren't an issue.

helimachoptor

spacetweek wrote: »

This one has been very quiet since they approved it. Anyone know what's going on ? It's being built with private money so the Gov's financial probs aren't an issue.

I live and work in citywest, the last few days they've had a crowd from an Archaeologists out with equipment where the line is going (looking for dead bodies/shopping trollies):D

paulm17781

spacetweek wrote: »

This one has been very quiet since they approved it. Anyone know what's going on ? It's being built with private money so the Gov's financial probs aren't an issue.

True, the developers financial probelms however will be an issue.