My new wheels...

BeardyGit

colm_mcm wrote:

I've driven a Defender 90. compare it to a Land Cruiser....

The Discovery is Land Rovers serious On and Off roader, while the Defender is an antique which despite everything, still finds homes. I would find it very difficult to part with 50 odd grand. considering the fairly dodgy safety standards

Hmmmm. Which landcruiser? Which Defender? What's the basis for comparison? You're comparing apples and oranges mate. If you were to suggest a new Amazon LC is a better all-round vehicle than a Disco 3 we might have a chance to have a rational discussion.

But to argue the Defender is an antique and expect that to be some sort of a valid criticism of its continued production/sale/whatever is ridiculous. People who buy Discos/Pajero's/LC's are different creatures to those who will opt for the Defender. Defender owners are generally quite passionate about the vehicle they chose to buy and for the most can't be compared with those who would buy a Disco 3/Freeloader etc. Whether it's just for looks or for the flexibility in terms of customisation they offer their owners, we each have our reasons for choosing the motorised Meccano set that a Defender is over other offerings, even within the Landrover marque.

I could be wrong but you seem to have something against Defenders in particular. Is there a reason for this that you can actually explain rather than taking pot-shots purely on the basis that you claim to have driven one at some point in the past? Do you actually KNOW what the differences are between a D90 and a Defender? I think not.

I wouldn't pretend to know about LC's any more than I've read. I once drove a SWB LC, back in 1997. But even if I were inclined to criticise an excellent vehicle such as the model I drove (which is justifiably popular) I wouldn't presume that my one-off experience and any heresay I'd been party to would be enough to provide any valid input. I wouldn't presume that my 'audience' on boards would be foolish enough to take my mumblings for granted.

And a final point (for now) - You refer to Safety Standards. Care to elaborate? Exactly what is your criticism? Oh, I'd appreciate some supporting references if we're to be thorough in reviewing the safety characteristics of vehicles with which we are obviously not familiar. Perhaps you could refer to the same source with particular comparable information related to the same characteristics in the Landcruiser range. Many thanks.

Gil

colm_mcm

Gil_Dub wrote:

Hmmmm. Which landcruiser? Which Defender? What's the basis for comparison? You're comparing apples and oranges mate..................................................................................................................................... Many thanks.

Gil

Firstly, my comment was in reply to spartacus93 who was comparing a Defender with an X5, a Cayenne, and a Range Rover. and quite accurately suggested that the Defender was a better machine for serious off roading. In "defence" (no pun intended!) of the more modern machines, I said that while the Defender was excellent off road, it couldn't cut it on road. If you put the Defender in the same company in an on road test (fair or not) the Defender will obviously be outclassed by the road-orientated machines.

I quite admire the Defenders and Defender owners, in much the same way as I admired the old Mini. and I do not have anything against the Defender. I don't however see how it is value for money.

As for "taking pot-shots purely on the basis that you claim to have driven one at some point in the past?" I am in the motor trade, and driving diffrerent makes and models of cars and off-roaders is part of my work.



On to safety. My main reasons for doubting the Land Rover's safety credentials are as follows:

1) It doesn't meet USA minimum safety standards

2) To the best of my knowledge, it doesn't have any airbags.

3) If it was NCAP tested, it would prove hazardous to both drivers and pedestrians

I am not, and don't claim to be an expert on Land Rovers, but i feel that my earlier posts are completely true. and don't show any unnecessary dislike towards the Defender






If we must compare safety equipment on the Defender with the Land Cruiser, here is some of the equipment Toyota will offer you:

Front, Side and Curtain Airbags.
Vehicle Stability Control
Anti Lock Brakes with Brake Distribution
Brake Assist

BeardyGit

Pardon me so, I missed where your earlier post was aimed.

On the safety point - I'll agree that the Defender certainly has some shortcomings (which I'm acutely aware of). The absence of airbags is something that worries many of us and I doubt anyone would fork out thousands for a new saloon or supermini if it didn't come with them as standard. ABS is available on all Defenders either as standard or as an option - And depending on what you're doing, you may not want ABS in the first place of course.

US safety standards are laughable in the first place. One of the primary reasons the Defender doesn't meet them is the lighting layout! The north american spec Defenders from 1995 and 1997 were either soft-tops or County spec with a FULL external roll-cage. Madness really. But driven by the type of use the average American consumer would put the vehicle to on a daily basis. The Defender is seen in America as a very fashionable alternative to a Jeep Wrangler or similar. The rest of the world see the Defender as a work-horse for the most part and realise that as such it shouldn't be driven at high speed in heavy traffic. There will always be tossers out there who go for the Defender as a hard-core alternative to a Rav4 - More money than sense. They're not inherently a safe vehicle (although the ladder chassis will always help in a front/rear collision) and offer NO protection for side impacts. But used responsibly in the environments for which they are designed there's little reason for more protection for the driver as standard. If someone's overlanding, then by all means fit a roll-cage - That's the beauty of a Defender - It's not a major job to have one fitted or indeed make any other modification to better match the tool to the job at hand.

Anyway - I think we're reading from the same page to an extent.

Goodnight lads,

Gil