Question

jcf

Ok , so I was talking to my uncle who liked Star Wars
the original (Ep 4) but doesn't like the new prequels .. fair enough...

BUT he said that these prequels were just made up to make more
money as the 1st movie was such a success ?
Didn't Lucas write 2 trilogies (or 3 ?)in the 70's and choose the 4,5 and 6th as
they were the best ?
or did he have a vague idea for the ep1,2 and 3 ??

Does anyone know if when in 1977 SW was released it said "Episode 4 A new hope" OR did it say Episode 1 ??
can anyone here remember seeing it in the cinema ?

I remember when I was a kid seeing "Return of the Jedi" around 1986/7
and seeing it said episode 6 , so i was thinking as a kid there must be more Star Wars ?
Can anyone clarify ??
just curious on this.
Cheers.

Laguna

jcf wrote:

BUT he said that these prequels were just made up to make more
money as the 1st movie was such a success ?

Sounds about right to me..

jcf wrote:

Didn't Lucas write 2 trilogies (or 3 ?)in the 70's and choose the 4,5 and 6th as
they were the best ?

No, he didn't release 4, 5 and 6 first as they were the best, they were released as they are the concluding episodes to the saga, I doubt people would've been prepared to wait the 16 year between 1983 (Return of the Jedi release date) and 1999 (Phantom Menace release date) to find out what became of Darth Vader if the newer trilogy had been released first.

jcf wrote:

Does anyone know if when in 1977 SW was released it said "Episode 4 A new hope" OR did it say Episode 1 ??

It was episode IV, come on man!, this is common Star Wars knowledge!.

jcf wrote:

can anyone here remember seeing it in the cinema ?

Nah, I was six years off being born (I'm only 22!)

Oh, your uncle is right by the way, the prequels are dirt in comparison with the original trilogy (Revenge Of The Sith was passable and is my third favourite Star Wars behind the Empire Strikes back and A New Hope)..

jcf

DID IT THOUGH !!! in the Cinema release did it say "Episode 4" ???

Or was that added in later video releases when Lucas knew he could make more after the amazing box office success it had, I would like to hear from
someone older who saw it on the silver screen and can remember it saying
Episode 4, and I apologise if it is a stupid question, but why else would I post ?

jcf

jcf wrote:

Didn't Lucas write 2 trilogies (or 3 ?)in the 70's and choose the 4,5 and 6th as they were the best ?

i remember reading somewhere last year that Lucas did have all 6 wrote in the 70's but decided to make 4,5 and 6 first as 1, 2 and 3 had more complex special effects to produce for that time.

Laguna

Here's a boring random fact for you, Lucas originally has the Star Wars saga called "the story of Mace Windu" but changed it, he later wrote in a character named Mace Windu in the newer trilogy for reasons best known to himself. I don't believe he had the scripts of the recent trilogy written already in the 70's, I belive he had the scripts of 4, 5 and 6 completed but had the scripts of 1, 2 and 3 as finished as a post-it note entailing "Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader - Develop" .

Pigman II

Just to clear a few things up

1. It is ep4 not ep1 and it was never ever called 'ep1' or considered as 'the begining'.

2. If you happened to see StarWars in a cinema in 1977 there was no "Episode IV : A New Hope" on the opening crawl. This line was not until a 1981 re-release of the movie. See even back then he was tinkering with them

3. He started with Ep4 because he felt that was the story that would work best as one single film.
Also the idea of dropping us in the middle of the story appealed to him was lifted from his own cinematic experiences. You see from watching Japanese movies in the 60's Lucas enjoyed the way that their culture was never explained to him and that it was up to him as a foriegn viewer to try and understand this world he was looking at. He wanted to apply this to idea his Star Wars universe. Hense you never get any real explaination of the technology, culture, politics or background to the story in general in ep4. You are just dropped until the middle of this strange universe and it's up to you to keep up. This technique is also used in his earlier film THX1138.

TerrorFirmer

When the first movie came out (what we know know as EpIV) it was simply called "Star Wars".

It was changed later to tie in with the later films, which originally no-one thought were actually going to get made

Roar

there's also a theory that Lucas's claims that he had the whole saga planned before he released the first movie were bollocks.

If you watch episode 4 on its own, you'll see that it comes to a definate end, all the story threads have been wrapped up and everyone's happy. and everyone got a medal. except for chewie, poor bastard.

then when he saw it was a success he suddenly had plans for a nine part saga, which he claimed were always part of the plan, while dollar bills replaced his eyeballs.

lucas never had a set plan for star wars, he winged it....

/awaits backlash....

iregk

What i read in empire mag as that he had all 6 written in the 70's also and thought that the 4th was the best standalone as was said above. if you watch the original it is simply called Star Wars then in the opening scene it comes up, A New Hope... So it gave the viewer the impression of a story.

I could be like the Matrix really. That was originally alwasy a thrilogy but no studio would give them the contract and budget for all 3 so they had to rewrite it to make 1 film. Hence the Matrix. After the huge sucess they studio came back and said, oh you have another two of these babies? Thats why they dont really flow well.

Earthhorse

Whatever about having them all written in the 70s, I understood that Lucas agreed to make the prequels in exchange for 20C Fox* returning the rights to Star Wars (A New Hope) to him.

Apparently that was the only film he didn't have the rights too himself and he wanted them back.

*Not sure if it was Twentieth Century Fox. It was whatever studio released Star Wars.

Laguna

Roar wrote:

there's also a theory that Lucas's claims that he had the whole saga planned before he released the first movie were bollocks.

If you watch episode 4 on its own, you'll see that it comes to a definate end, all the story threads have been wrapped up and everyone's happy. and everyone got a medal. except for chewie, poor bastard.

then when he saw it was a success he suddenly had plans for a nine part saga, which he claimed were always part of the plan, while dollar bills replaced his eyeballs.

lucas never had a set plan for star wars, he winged it....

/awaits backlash....

No, I'd say this is completely plausible. George Lucas is full of ****, he's no great storyteller IMO, just excellent at hawking a franchise, he's more concerned with you buying the T-Shirt, game and lunchbox than you appreciating his artistic merits..

jcf

yeah, I remember reading in Empire years ago when the original trilogy was re released re-mastered, that there were plans to make TWO more trilogies,
episode 1-3 and 7-9, Lucas has since said that there will be no more.

The only characters being in all 9, C3P0 and R2D2 .

But did he write a story for 7-9 ? and why has he decided not to make the films, I'm sure theyd make money even if they would be ****e.

Also can another director make an ep7 or is he unable do to legal restrictions ?

Pigman II

Laguna wrote:

No, I'd say this is completely plausible. George Lucas is full of ****, he's no great storyteller IMO, just excellent at hawking a franchise, he's more concerned with you buying the T-Shirt, game and lunchbox than you appreciating his artistic merits..

No offense to you and the guy who brought it up originally but this is so much bs. Lucas's primary concerns from my own observations is that of (1) improving the technical facilities available to filmmakers (2) staying independent from the Hollywood system in order to make the kind of films he wants to make.

Sure he might hawk a t-shirt here and an action figure there but he does to get the funds necessary to make his movies and to invest in talent behind the camera in all aspects.

Despite his fortune he doesn't really live an extravagant or decadent lifestyle so I don't know where this idea that he just wakes up in the morning seeing $ signs comes from.

Believe me if all he was interested in was making money then there'd probably be about 15 star wars movies in the can by now instead of just 6 because it's not as tho the market isn't there for them.

Laguna

Pigman II wrote:

No offense to you and the guy who brought it up originally but this is so much bs. Lucas's primary concerns from my own observations is that of (1) improving the technical facilities available to filmmakers (2) staying independent from the Hollywood system in order to make the kind of films he wants to make.

Sure he might hawk a t-shirt here and an action figure there but he does to get the funds necessary to make his movies and to invest in talent behind the camera in all aspects.

Despite his fortune he doesn't really live an extravagant or decadent lifestyle so I don't know where this idea that he just wakes up in the morning seeing $ signs comes from.

Believe me if all he was interested in was making money then there'd probably be about 15 star wars movies in the can by now instead of just 6 because it's not as tho the market isn't there for them.

I know in more recent times Lucas bought back the rights to Episodes IV-VI, but it's common knowledge that to get A New Hope published/released, Lucas had to forgo his rights to the original trilogy (well, ANH at first but subsequent films too) and his pay in return for exclusive rights to merchandising to Star Wars, Empire did a huge spread on this a few years back and I've heard it mentioned on many Star Wars documentaries.

Back in the 70's, film merchandise was a moot point, hence why 20th Century Fox were happy to give Lucas exclusive rights to the merchandise for Star Wars as they thought there was no money to be made there, when Lucas ended up proving them wrong with immense sales of Star Wars action figures, bedspreads, curtains, games, lunchboxes et al. This sole reason alone makes me believe that Lucas is a merchandise man first and a movie director second. You only have to look at the huge range and diversity of Star Wars products and endorsements every time one of his prequel trilogy films came round... "Eat at Pizza Hut and get a Darth Vader helmet"...Pepsi bottles adorned with Star Wars characters etc etc

I know endorsements are part and parcel of every summer blockbuster, but the level at which Star Wars carries it off to is unmatchable... Lucas has made billions from the merchandise and comparatively little from the films directly, I'm still of the belief that the films are solely a vehicle to flog the toys/games etc.

TerrorFirmer

Lucas never once claimed to have written the entire two trilogies in the seventies. In fact he openly says he had a rough ideal for the core of his envisioned movies from the start but did not have any fine points worked out, or even the correct basic stories really until he set about writing TPM in 1996 or whenever it was when he started writing the scripts.

Lucas made A New Hope at a time when everyone thought the film would tank and as such merchandise would be worthless. If Lucas was solely after merchendising fortunes he could have easily made 10x more movies after his original trilogy, given others the right to make spin offs, or god knows what else. Making Star Wars was a huge gamble for Lucas which happened to pay off big time, enabling him to make the trilogy he wanted to.

Lucas is all about being independant from the way Hollywood usually works and his companies have been have the forefront of the latest technologies in various areas for years.

Whatever people may call George Lucas, calling him a man that makes films to primarily further merchendise sales is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Pigman II

Laguna wrote:

I know in more recent times Lucas bought back the rights to Episodes IV-VI, but it's common knowledge that to get A New Hope published/released, Lucas had to forgo his rights to the original trilogy (well, ANH at first but subsequent films too) and his pay in return for exclusive rights to merchandising to Star Wars, Empire did a huge spread on this a few years back and I've heard it mentioned on many Star Wars documentaries.

Does Empire really say all that because I do have to as where are you getting this from? Whilst Fox financed IV, GL made V and VI with his own money and owned the rights to the SW franchise so what exactly was he 'buying back the rights to' in your opinion?

Back in the 70's, film merchandise was a moot point, hence why 20th Century Fox were happy to give Lucas exclusive rights to the merchandise for Star Wars as they thought there was no money to be made there, when Lucas ended up proving them wrong with immense sales of Star Wars action figures, bedspreads, curtains, games, lunchboxes et al.

Again, where do you get the idea that SW ep4 was some business venture for Lucas? His reason for taking the merchandising was so that he could sell/promote/advertise SW the movie (and any sequels) himself because he had no faith in the studio doing it for him after his expieriences at WarnerBros with THX1138. He saw t-shirts and posters as the way of getting the word out about SW. He did not take the merchandising because he thought 'oooh I could make a load of money here!'. Nobody guessed there could be such a demand for movie related products themselves at the time and this is demonstrated by the limited range of products you could actually buy at the time of SW release in May 77. For example most people forget that the toy range didn't even happen until 1978. This is not the sign of a meticulously thought out marketing strategy.

Basically the guy got lucky.

This sole reason alone makes me believe that Lucas is a merchandise man first and a movie director second. You only have to look at the huge range and diversity of Star Wars products and endorsements every time one of his prequel trilogy films came round... "Eat at Pizza Hut and get a Darth Vader helmet"...Pepsi bottles adorned with Star Wars characters etc etc

Again I'm not denying SW makes a fortune from merchandise. My point is this was not a premeditated venture on the part of Lucas at the time and I still believe that it's is not his concern today.

I know endorsements are part and parcel of every summer blockbuster, but the level at which Star Wars carries it off to is unmatchable... Lucas has made billions from the merchandise and comparatively little from the films directly, I'm still of the belief that the films are solely a vehicle to flog the toys/games etc.

Star Wars is not only a series of films primarily for kids but it's also as big and as blue-chip as movies get. Why shouldn't it naturally be the biggest merchandise tie-in also?

johnnyivan

A - ha! So I was actually obsessed with Star Wars for a whole year, and had to wait until Xmas '78 until I got my 3 miniatures/figures?

I didn't realise. So, that's why I took my 'Maskatron' (6 million dollar man) figure and tried to make him look like Han Solo. Used a black permanent marker on his white shirt to make it look like solo's outfit!

Any idea when the first film was released in Ireland? Was it just before Xmas '07?

John

http://johniwhite/starwars/

evil-monkey

Awww I hate these quibbles about what Lucas had planned. What does it matter if he planned it this way or not?? PROJECTS EVOLVE!!

The first thing is this; in 1977 A New Hope was simply Star Wars. No episode I, no nothing. Just Star Wars. I wasn't even a sperm then lads and even I know that.

Secondly, Lucas obviously had plans to make a sequel, that's obvious from the open ending. But whether or not he planned to make six movies, well only Lucas himself knows the answer to that. But you can be damn sure all his plans were hooked on the success of the franchise. He may have said to himself, if this turns into a huge success, I'll make more, if not, I won't. Same as any movie franchise. As I said, projects evolve, they react to the reception they get from the public.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

When the first movie came out (what we know know as EpIV) it was simply called "Star Wars".

It was changed later to tie in with the later films, which originally no-one thought were actually going to get made

My point exactly. At the time, nobody, plans or no plans, knew how this thing was going to pan out. Intentions are grand but is box office success that counts.

Pigman II wrote: »

No offense to you and the guy who brought it up originally but this is so much bs. Lucas's primary concerns from my own observations is that of (1) improving the technical facilities available to filmmakers (2) staying independent from the Hollywood system in order to make the kind of films he wants to make.

I'd agree with this. The deal he signed with Fox at the time being proof.

Pigman II wrote: »

Sure he might hawk a t-shirt here and an action figure there but he does to get the funds necessary to make his movies and to invest in talent behind the camera in all aspects.

Another valid point I've made on many an occasion. The more money Star Wars makes from merchandise, the more quality productions we are likely to see in the future. Money makes the world go around; it's no different in the Galaxy far away...