Gay Rights

BoozyBabe

The marriage thread has sparked off a few thoughts in my head.

So, should gay people be allowed to marry, should they be recognised by the state as a properly married couple & should they be allowed to adopt children.

My answer to all the above is yes.

What's yours?

xzanti

absolutely Yes

super_furry

Of course they should. There is no valid reason why they shouldn't.

Lux23

They should have the same rights as straight couples. I don't think there are really any legitimate agruments against Civil Unions for Gay couples unless you can count bigotry.

el tel

I think all couples should have equal rights regardless however yesterday I heard the arguement that because gay couples chose a relationship that naturally precludes procreation they in effect are forfeiting their ability to have children and as such should not be allowed to adopt children. Anyone heard of this or any views?

Merrick

Yes, they have every right to get married.

LundiMardi

yes, it would be weird imo seeing a gay couple (men) raising a male child, don't ask me why, just the picture in my head looks weird!! heh...

But yeah sure why not!

declanoneill

Children should never be allowed to be placed in the care of a person or people that would result in their warping as they got older

http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/13950130.htm

BoozyBabe

el tel wrote:

I think all couples should have equal rights regardless however yesterday I heard the arguement that because gay couples chose a relationship that naturally precludes procreation they in effect are forfeiting their ability to have children and as such should not be allowed to adopt children. Anyone heard of this or any views?

Well my view on that is this:-

If I didn't find men attractive, I don't find them attractive. I did not CHOOSE that, it's just how I am, just like I didn't choose to be left-handed, but I am.

It's not my fault that mother nature didn't allow for a means for same-sex couples to procreate, therefore that's also not my fault.

So if I want to bring up a child in a loving caring relationship, I should NOT be excluded from doing so.

Just my opinion

BoozyBabe

Do you find it strange that those who are voting No in the poll won't post to explain their reasoning.

I know it's anonymous, & they're entitled to keep it that way, but to have such strong views & not state why.......??

Yes, of course they should.

skywalker

Your asking several questions there & lumping them in as one so might not be a simple yes/no. Id presonally answer yes to everything other than adoption, Im not sure Id agree with that, mainly as Im not sure it would be the healthiest of environments for the child.

Binomate

Nah, they should be our slaves (non-sexual) tbh.

ebby

skywalker wrote:

Your asking several questions there & lumping them in as one so might not be a simple yes/no. Id presonally answer yes to everything other than adoption, Im not sure Id agree with that, mainly as Im not sure it would be the healthiest of environments for the child.

why not? How many children do you know who've grown up with a gay couple as their parents and how has this affected them? Are you speaking from experience here are you just speculating?

I personally do know gay parents and children of gay parents and it's no more or less healthy than comparative straight parented families.

Rb

Of course they should have the same rights as hetrosexuals.

F*ck anyone who says otherwise.

skywalker

ebby wrote:

why not? How many children do you know who've grown up with a gay couple as their parents and how has this affected them? Are you speaking from experience here are you just speculating?

I personally do know gay parents and children of gay parents and it's no more or less healthy than comparative straight parented families.

no Im not talking from personal experience, doesnt make my view any less valid than yours. As was pointed out rather crudely above it will come & kids will have to deal with it at school etc.

skywalker

skywalker wrote:

no Im not talking from personal experience, doesnt make my view any less valid than yours. As was pointed out rather crudely above it will come & kids will have to deal with it at school etc.

Kids also have to deal with looking different, thinking different, etc.

Refusing to give someone the right to adopt children just to pander to potential bullies in school is pathetic.

Oriel

I think they should have every right a normal couple should have except for the fact that they should not be allowed to adopt a baby. This could only result in an unbalanced child.

sinecurea

sinecurea wrote:

I think they should have every right a normal couple should have except for the fact that they should not be allowed to adopt a baby. This could only result in an unbalanced child.

Wrong.
Someone on the thread has pointed out they know children with gay parents who turned out fine. I turned out fine.
So your claim that it could only result in an unbalanced child is false.

If you're going to start talking about role models, I think that would only apply if the child was kept at home with no outside contact for their entire childhood

Beruthiel

sinecurea wrote:

I think they should have every right a normal couple should have except for the fact that they should not be allowed to adopt a baby. This could only result in an unbalanced child.

considering the amount of unbalanced children there are out there from hetro couples, I don't really see your point.

skywalker

bluewolf wrote:

Kids also have to deal with looking different, thinking different, etc.

Refusing to give someone the right to adopt children just to pander to potential bullies in school is pathetic.

True kids have to deal with all kinds of things, but should they be put into an environement which might well give them other things to contend with.

bluewolf wrote:

Wrong.
Someone on the thread has pointed out they know children with gay parents who turned out fine. I turned out fine.
So your claim that it could only result in an unbalanced child is false.

Wow. Just wow.

justsomebloke

sinecurea wrote:

I think they should have every right a normal couple should have except for the fact that they should not be allowed to adopt a baby. This could only result in an unbalanced child.

from what are you basing this assumption on, it seems like a very sweeping generalisation and to me it points that the problem is with the public view or gay couples as opposed to any real knowledge about gay couples

skywalker

skywalker wrote:

True kids have to deal with all kinds of things, but should they be put into an environement which might well give them other things to contend with.

What environment?
I would hope that kids would be put into a loving family rather than a hostile one, regardless of gender. If you put them into a family situation with a not so wonderful hetero couple, they're being put into an environment which will give them other things to deal with.
For goodness' sakes, kids get teased about anything at school, whether it's schoolbags, your parents' names (yes, it has happened), hair colour...
Should we take measures to make sure this can't happen as well - dying their hair- or should we just deal with it and try to stop all bullying?

Wow. Just wow.

Well, s/he was making an absolute claim. Whether they have reason to justify a "in the vast majority of cases" claim or not, it's pretty obvious the "only" part was false

netwhizkid

Gay Couples should not be allowed to marry or adopt Children. It goes against Nature, Our Moral Catholic Ethos and against family values which we hold so dearly in Ireland. I am also against Civil-Partnerships, however Homosexuals should have have a facility where they can avail of services available to Married people, eg. any tax breaks based on marriage or "next-of-kin" rights should one member of the Homosexual relationship die entitling the other half of the relationship rights to their partners assets unless otherwise directed by the deceased partner. Homosexuals should be glad they have made so much gains in recent years, up until recently Homosexuality was illegal afaik. As a society Ireland is not ready for full integration Homosexuals into Mainstream society just yet. Maybe in 50yrs. The Idea of Homosexuals adopting Children is terrible, Imagine the kids going to school, The psychological damage to Children would be awful. Children have grown up fine in families where one parent has died or left but Children need balance and most definitely not two mothers or fathers.

ebby

netwhizkid wrote:

Gay Couples should not be allowed to marry or adopt Children. It goes against Nature, Our Moral Catholic Ethos and against family values which we hold so dearly in Ireland. I am also against Civil-Partnerships, however Homosexuals should have have a facility where they can avail of services available to Married people, eg. any tax breaks based on marriage or "next-of-kin" rights should one member of the Homosexual relationship die entitling the other half of the relationship rights to their partners assets unless otherwise directed by the deceased partner. Homosexuals should be glad they have made so much gains in recent years, up until recently Homosexuality was illegal afaik. As a society Ireland is not ready for full integration Homosexuals into Mainstream society just yet. Maybe in 50yrs. The Idea of Homosexuals adopting Children is terrible, Imagine the kids going to school, The psychological damage to Children would be awful. Children have grown up fine in families where one parent has died or left but Children need balance and most definitely not two mothers or fathers.

Firstly, not all of us are Catholic. . Psychological damage is something which I think the Catholic Church has far more to reason to be ashamed of than any perceived psychological difficulties encountered by children of gay parents (birth or adopted).

There are already a lot of gay parents in our society, which is perhaps something that not many people realise as the parents spend more time living their lives and raising their children than shoving their viewpoints in other peoples faces. They are quietly proving to the world that gay people are just as valid as parents as straight people.

You also should take into consideration the fact that if gay couples want to conceive or adopt, then they are making the conscious decision to have a child, to prepare their lives for the arrival of a child and to really make that commitment. It's not as if they get pregnant by accident and are then lumped with a child that they prehaps resent initially as perhaps they didn't want to have children at this point in their lives / with that man/woman.. .

BoozyBabe

Beruthiel wrote:

considering the amount of unbalanced children there are out there from hetro couples, I don't really see your point.

Exactly what I was thinking when I read that post!

Like a child born to heroin addicts who steal to feed their addiction, who lives in squaler with practically no food, but the parents are hetro would of course be far more balanced to a child brought up in the exact opposite conditions but the parents are homo:rolleyes:

mise_me_fein_V2

I'm happy enough with the way it is at the moment.

If gay people were given the right to marry, I wouldn't object but I'm not gonna be screaming for it to come in.

Dyr

I dunno, if i was a nipper and i found out that i was being adopted by two gay daddies rather than a mammy/daddy arrangement i'd feel pretty ripped off

It's seems kind of selfish to me to decide for some nipper that he's going to grow up in a non-standard issue family just because you want a babby.


:v: < my da's could batter your da!!...ehh...maybe not

Oriel

But what sort of example is it going to set when the child starts to develop a sexual identity?

netwhizkid

ebby wrote:

Firstly, not all of us are Catholic. . Psychological damage is something which I think the Catholic Church has far more to reason to be ashamed of than any perceived psychological difficulties encountered by children of gay parents (birth or adopted).

There are already a lot of gay parents in our society, which is perhaps something that not many people realise as the parents spend more time living their lives and raising their children than shoving their viewpoints in other peoples faces. They are quietly proving to the world that gay people are just as valid as parents as straight people.

You also should take into consideration the fact that if gay couples want to conceive or adopt, then they are making the conscious decision to have a child, to prepare their lives for the arrival of a child and to really make that commitment. It's not as if they get pregnant by accident and are then lumped with a child that they perhaps resent initially as perhaps they didn't want to have children at this point in their lives / with that man/woman.. .

Point 1: It is simply unfair to have Children living in a homosexual relationship they will grow up with a feeling of loss and chances is that they too themselves may grow up Gay as a result of living in such a Gay Environment. As I said already there is no reason why Gay people can't have limited legal rights but not Marriage/Adoption Rights. While certain "Liberal" countries like Holland, Spain and the state of Massachusetts in the USA have legalised Homosexual Marriage, I cannot see it becoming an Issue here. There is no political party willing to play that card (except the Pds) as the backlash from Voters would erode any gains resulting from it.

ebby wrote:

You also should take into consideration the fact that if gay couples want to conceive or adopt, then they are making the conscious decision to have a child

As for this statement, While it may be a conscious decision, It is usually short-sighted and not fully thought through. Hollywood and MTV are pushing the Gay Agenda with films like "Brokeback Mountain" and "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" These tv shows have epitomised Gay culture and are showing Children to be the latest fashion accessory for Homosexuals, Similar to Paris Hilton and her pet Chihuahua. I have never heard of Homosexuals Conceiving, Could you please enlighten me as to how a Gay Man/Woman could conceive? Unless of course assisted by the opposite sex.

BoozyBabe

Would that not be better that the 'nipper' being brough up in an orphanage along with lots of other children with no mammy/daddy, mammy/mammy, daddy/daddy to love them.

I think any child in an orphange would prefer to have a home to call their own, with loving parents to call their own regardless of the sex of their parents than just being another "I'm an orphan, get me outta here" hopeful.

BoozyBabe

sinecurea wrote:

But what sort of example is it going to set when the child starts to develop a sexual identity?

If it's a loving relationship then the example it'll set is to how to be open-minded about people, how to treat people, how to love people etc, etc, etc

Most gay people grew up with hetro-sexual parents, however they did not get their sexual identity from their parents did they?

So it's wrong to assume that a childs sexuality will be confused because the parents are gay.

I'm not saying you, or anyone else is wrong, I'm just stating what I think about the views being put forward.

Hobbes

netwhizkid wrote:

It goes against Nature,

Think Nature might disagree with you there...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnMJU9RrNhQ&search=gay%20penguins

As a society Ireland is not ready for full integration Homosexuals into Mainstream society just yet. Maybe in 50yrs.

Thanks for telling everyone, ok all back into the cupboard. Better close up all those gay bars and lets revert the law that makes it legal.

netwhizkid

netwhizkid wrote:

Point 1: It is simply unfair to have Children living in a homosexual relationship they will grow up with a feeling of loss

Based on what?

and chances is that they too themselves may grow up Gay as a result of living in such a Gay Environment.

Yes, because everyone knows straight people only have straight children.

Incidentally, if they do grow up to be gay, it's not a problem.

As I said already there is no reason why Gay people can't have limited legal rights but not Marriage/Adoption Rights. While certain "Liberal" countries like Holland, Spain and the state of Massachusetts in the USA have legalised Homosexual Marriage, I cannot see it becoming an Issue here. There is no political party willing to play that card (except the Pds) as the backlash from Voters would erode any gains resulting from it.

We'll see how the gay couple's court case goes then, eh.

As for this statement, While it may be a conscious decision, It is usually short-sighted and not fully thought through. Hollywood and MTV are pushing the Gay Agenda with films like "Brokeback Mountain" and "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" These tv shows have epitomised Gay culture and are showing Children to be the latest fashion accessory for Homosexuals, Similar to Paris Hilton and her pet Chihuahua.

Those who would have children as a fashion accessory are as shallow as those who would refuse to let them have children based on this possible reason.

I have never heard of Homosexuals Conceiving, Could you please enlighten me as to how a Gay Man/Woman could conceive? Unless of course assisted by the opposite sex.

You know this has nothing to do with the point in the quoted post.

BoozyBabe

netwhizkid wrote:

Point 1: It is simply unfair to have Children living in a homosexual relationship they will grow up with a feeling of loss and chances is that they too themselves may grow up Gay as a result of living in such a Gay Environment.

OMG!!!:eek: The thought of it!:rolleyes:

I'm not gay, but why do you have such a negative view of gay people?

As I already said, gay people to hetro parents didn't turn out hetro, so it's unfair to say that children of gay people would more than likely be gay too.

Beruthiel

Bambi wrote:

It's seems kind of selfish to me to decide for some nipper that he's going to grow up in a non-standard issue family just because you want a babby.

an awful lot of kids in ireland today have been brought up in "non-standard issue families"

But what sort of example is it going to set when the child starts to develop a sexual identity?

a kid will grow up to be what it's going to be - after all, if you think that one through, how come some people are gay regardless of their hetro parents?

they too themselves may grow up Gay as a result of living in such a Gay Environment.

you truly have not got a clue

Hobbes

Beruthiel wrote:

they too themselves may grow up Gay as a result of living in such a Gay Environment.

you truly have not got a clue

Indeed. I always wondered those so anti-gay get hung up on the sex part. They seem to think gay couples are continual shag-fests where the child will be enforced to watch because they are in the way of the telly.

justsomebloke

Bambi wrote:

I dunno, if i was a nipper and i found out that i was being adopted by two gay daddies rather than a mammy/daddy arrangement i'd feel pretty ripped off

what about single single hetrosexual couples, should they also not be allowed to adopt as the kid would feel ripped off

hot2def

skywalker wrote:

Your asking several questions there & lumping them in as one so might not be a simple yes/no. Id presonally answer yes to everything other than adoption, Im not sure Id agree with that, mainly as Im not sure it would be the healthiest of environments for the child.

shall we take kids away from every parent that doesn't provide a healthy environment? all the single parents, or the smokers, or the people who cant afford a fancy education. or the vegetarians and vegans? or the parents who can't read?

Dyr

Beruthiel wrote:

an awful lot of kids in ireland today have been brought up in "non-standard issue families"

Probably, but as far as I know we dont have orphanages brimming to the brim with little timmys and tammys looking for home's so the powers that be are spoiled for choice when it comes to foster parents.


I know if i was running an orphanage and (all other factors being equal) had to choose between an application from mr/mrs smith and one from mr/mr jones i'd feel duty bound to take the former.

justsomebloke

hot2def wrote:

shall we take kids away from every parent that doesn't provide a healthy environment? all the single parents, or the smokers, or the people who cant afford a fancy education. or the vegetarians and vegans? or the parents who can't read?

Don't forget the hippies and politicians:D

hot2def

what if mr and mrs smith have religious views that prevent the child getting certain medical treatments, food or schooling? what then?

skywalker

hot2def wrote:

shall we take kids away from every parent that doesn't provide a healthy environment? all the single parents, or the smokers, or the people who cant afford a fancy education. or the vegetarians and vegans? or the parents who can't read?

Taking kids away from someone & not allowing them adopt are 2 differant things no?

& to answer your leading question why should kids be in an unhealthy environment?

hot2def

hot2def wrote:

what if mr and mrs smith have religious views that prevent the child getting certain medical treatments, food or schooling? what then?

Or likes to keep them in cages

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1273177

Or not adopted, not biological:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4743354.stm

Or, for non adopted, bio:
http://www.fox5ny.com/_ezpost/data/34894.shtml

hot2def

netwhizkid wrote:

I have never heard of Homosexuals Conceiving, Could you please enlighten me as to how a Gay Man/Woman could conceive? Unless of course assisted by the opposite sex.

for some of us, getting knocked up is not rocket science. and you can't stop us either. will you becoming around with the Morality Police to take kids away from gay and bisexual women>

hot2def

skywalker wrote:

Taking kids away from someone & not allowing them adopt are 2 differant things no?

& to answer your leading question why should kids be in an unhealthy environment?

not to be twee, but life is an unhealthy environment. the leading question was who gets to decide what is an unhealthy envirnoment?

Dyr

jsb wrote:

what about single single hetrosexual couples, should they also not be allowed to adopt as the kid would feel ripped off

Well no, they shouldnt, unless theres a chronic shortage of married couples who are suitable for adopting. I'd give the nod to a mammy/daddy setup over mammy or daddy doing it by themselves tbh.

imright

Gays shouldnt be let any where near children

You wouldnt let a Gay man look after animals?
You wouldnt let fat people look after your plate of burgers would you?
So we shouldnt trust gays with kids...end of story

BoozyBabe

imright wrote:

Gays shouldnt be let any where near children

You wouldnt let a Gay man look after animals?
You wouldnt let fat people look after your plate of burgers would you?
So we shouldnt trust gays with kids...end of story

Get a life!!!

Like I said I'm not against people who believe homosexuality is wrong, but your argument above is just pathetic!

imright

wow you dont say...your very bright

connundrum

imright wrote:

Gays shouldnt be let any where near children

You wouldnt let a Gay man look after animals?
You wouldnt let fat people look after your plate of burgers would you?
So we shouldnt trust gays with kids...end of story

Jesus Christ