Dublin Riots as an excuse to attack working-class people

HelterSkelter

I posted the below in response to many comments I've read on boards where people seem to be using the riots as an excuse to class all working class/people on the dole/people who wear track suits/football jerseys as scum. I'd like to hear people's opinions on this. Thanks.

I for one am sick of listening to people like you using this as an opportunity to attack the working class. Well well well, some people around here are showing their true colours now. Some of you try really hard to appear to believe in equality and all the PC bullshít but when you scratch the surface your real hatred for the working class comes out.

If I was to have the same viewpoint as you I would believe that all businessmen are parasites also, getting grants left right and centre, avoiding paying their fair share of tax through loopholes. IF they paid their fair share then I would not be screwed paying 42%. And the farmers, sure they're all a bunch of parasites as well, claiming benefits from the Government and EU, getting money for growing nothing in their fields, what a load of wasters.

In any case how can you possibly tell the majority of the rioters involved are on the dole? I recognised two people in the crowd on the indymedia video and both have jobs, in fact one of them has a respectable job and is a home owner (he's only 28). I also know several members of Sinn Féin and none of them are unemployed. I saw people in the videos who were well dressed, wearing shirts, etc and nobody commented on them, they apeared to be dressed like any middle class young guy. Only snidy comments about people wearing track suits, trainers, etc being the uniform of the scum. The majority of people on the dole and in lower paid jobs are honest decent people who would have nothing to do with what went on last Saturday. Believe it or not a lot of people on the dole are on it for a valid reason, it's not the picnic some people seem to think it is. If you think so why don't you quit your job and try it out for a few months. I guarantee your opinion will change then.

I get your point and ,tarring all with the same brush is so ridiculous.

However Working class,middle class..??

Those terms are so 19th century

samb

Yes I think your dead right.
The media seem to be saying now that the rioters were largely oppurtunistic scum-bags. But if so, why were so many wearing 'Irish' gear, celtic jerseys, flags and all that. Surely they all didn't go 'hey a riot, let run home and grap our green stuff. No, many (if not most) of the rioters had planned to be there and that is why they had all the green gear. Some local scum who happened to be around would have then joined in-but the media are over emphasising this.

meditraitor

The Celtic jersey is part of the official scumbag uniform, has been for a while.....

ionapaul

HelterSkelter wrote:

I posted the below in response to many comments I've read on boards where people seem to be using the riots as an excuse to class all working class/people on the dole/people who wear track suits/football jerseys as scum. I'd like to hear people's opinions on this. Thanks.

I was a temporary gawker on O'Connell Street on Saturday and, whatever about working class/people on the dole, the % of tracksuit and British soccer jersey wearing scummers in the 'action' does not closely track the % of the same in the wider population! I had never experienced such a concentration of Celtic jerseys, tacky gold and true blue inner city accents before in my life - I probably don't get out enough. That said, I am firmly with you on your concern about stereotyping...it is possible that many of the aforementioned rioters were from Sutton or Foxrock.

Ag marbh

Check it out

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74528

Prophecy Man

Ag marbh wrote:

Check it out

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74528

Very good article - excellent summary

mayordenis

well as far as i'm concerded it was the actions of these people that the define them as "scum" regardless of class,
it so happens that the people who give me hassle in town and such happen to come from somewhat under-privaliged backgrounds, and dress in what is considered the stereotypical manner.
Tollerence of people who are well-to-do isn't exactly fair either.

Dilly1

Try 'Plastic Brit' class

It was like being in the middle of Hackney Marsh, only difference was the
track suit / gold chain wearing fellas had Irish accents. :rolleyes:

ionapaul

Prophecy Man wrote:

Very good article - excellent summary

Amazingly biased, though, and obviously so? 'fantasist pathological liars of the Sunday Independent', 'every reactionary in the country', etc... Not sure about his / her assertion that the shoppers and passers by were 'clearly more sympathetic to the rioters than the Gardai', in fact, I will state that that is total rubbish. I spoke to many on O'Connell Street, Henry Street and a few up around Henry Street in the aftermath and not many would be classified as being in the 'pro-rioters' camp, even after it decended into an 'anti-police and anti-state' affair by the disenfranchised youths. The writer seems at times confused as to whether the rioters were republicans (attacking the anti-republican establishment figure in Charlie Bird) or brave anti-capitalists after his / her own heart. The 'rage of the excluded' is quite poetic, though

Nuttzz

socialist rubbish again from indymedia, if the people were to rise you might find it would number a bit more than 100/200

As for calling some of the robbing scum bags working class, you are having a laugh, the only job they have even know was a blow job.....

Scruff

I for one am sick of listening to people like you using this as an opportunity to attack the working class. Well well well, some people around here are showing their true colours now. Some of you try really hard to appear to believe in equality and all the PC bullshít but when you scratch the surface your real hatred for the working class comes out.

If I was to have the same viewpoint as you I would believe that all businessmen are parasites also, getting grants left right and centre, avoiding paying their fair share of tax through loopholes. IF they paid their fair share then I would not be screwed paying 42%. And the farmers, sure they're all a bunch of parasites as well, claiming benefits from the Government and EU, getting money for growing nothing in their fields, what a load of wasters.

Thats the spirit! PC is ****e enforced by 90's liberals which means theres no good jokes any more and equality should only be for those who deserve it! Stereotype everyone and then let the individuals you meet\know from each demographic either prove you pleasantly wrong or reinforce your stereotyped opinion. Works for me!

constitutionus

OP does have a point, alot of people on the board have displayed amazing hyprocacy on this issue. on the one hand these individuals are " republicans" and "scumbags" and "inner city scum" who are dispalyed as moral degenerates, intollerant and ill educated unemployed and overpopulating facist thugs . and then in the very same sentence say they should all be round up and shot or beaten greiviously by the gardai, whom have rules of engaging this sort of behaviour, in a manor inconsistant of a civilised society and at which they would be appalled if it was leveled against them

anyone notice the irony?

im not supporting the rioters but how we deal with these situations is what defines us as a society. heaping prejudices and gross generalisations on a body of people doesnt do anything to assure the situation doesnt happen again. indeed it just illustrates just how biggoted certain people are in this country now.i.e this is your area code? this is what you are.

need i remind you people still have to be prosecuted over this so i suggest we wait till then before we start smearing and entire section of irish society. remember at this point theres as much proof to say it was all managed by micheal macdowel in an effort to ease the introduction of his 4000 yellow pack gards and that the whole riot was orcharstrated by "slumming" PD supporters putting on accents as there is to say it was all a bunch of unemployed scumbags from sherif street and summerhill:D

we really should wait untill the evidence and the reports are released to the public ,as they used to say on dragnet "just the facts ma'm":)

Time Magazine

If the OP's quoter is working-class, why is he paying in the highest tax-band?

HelterSkelter

The tax band cut-off for 20% is fairly low, I think a significant percentage of working-class would be paying 42%. In any case I have what some would call a middle-class job but I'm from a working-class background and still live in a working-class area.

Akrasia

ionapaul wrote:

Amazingly biased, though, and obviously so? 'fantasist pathological liars of the Sunday Independent', 'every reactionary in the country',

What's biased about that? The Sunday Independent is an appalling newspaper. They are still blaming Sinn Fein for the Riots even though clearly they had nothing at all to do with it. In fact this has been another example of reactionism, people on both sides have rushed to blame their natural enemy for all the trouble last saturday regardless of who that enemy is. S.Indo and the anti republican papers blame Sinn Fein and Anarchists despite all the available evidence. That is not a shocking development, it is business as usual for the Tabloid in Broadsheets clothing that is the irish Independent

fly_agaric

constitutionus wrote:

OP does have a point, alot of people on the board have displayed amazing hyprocacy on this issue. on the one hand these individuals are " republicans" and "scumbags" and "inner city scum" who are dispalyed as moral degenerates, intollerant and ill educated unemployed and overpopulating facist thugs . and then in the very same sentence say they should all be round up and shot or beaten greiviously by the gardai, whom have rules of engaging this sort of behaviour, in a manor inconsistant of a civilised society and at which they would be appalled if it was leveled against them

anyone notice the irony?

Yeah. The thread on the TCD board for example has some really vile half-jest-wholly-in-earnest stuff in it (pity some rioters didn't die, rioters should be executed for their crimes or at least put on a chain gang, families should have kids taken into care by the state).
Anyone remember that Reclaim the Streets thing and the bleatings about fascist guards when that went down?

billy the squid

fly_agaric wrote:

Yeah. The thread on the TCD board for example has some really vile half-jest-wholly-in-earnest stuff in it (pity some rioters didn't die, rioters should be executed for their crimes or at least put on a chain gang, families should have kids taken into care by the state).
Anyone remember that Reclaim the Streets thing and the bleatings about fascist guards when that went down?

If parents cannot control their kids and don't know where they even are when they are out behaving in an anti-social manner then they should indeed have their custody rights of their children looked into.

These people were scum not because they came from disadvantaged areas, I dont know any of them personally so i dont know where the **** they came from. These people were scum because they caused millions of euro in damage to innocent people.

I watched the 13 minute indymedia video last night and got the impression that had the riot police not shown up when they did that PDs office would have went up in smoke. you could hear calls for it to be torched after its windows were put in.

To claim that this is being used as an opportunity to knock the working class is bollix. Not all of the people involved came from working classes.

As well as that if one can afford a branded tracksuit and branded tackies they can buy a cheap pair of shoes in shoezone, a shirt pants and tie in pennies and go for a job interview.

The people in town last weekend had more money than you think.

metrovelvet

Wait.... aren't guards also classifiably working class.... as are teachers, plumbers, etc....? Is class solely about income or is it complicated by other factors? Were these people actually working and employed? What industries would you say?

Could this thread be rephrased to say.... "riots ..excuse by sectors of the working class to attack dublin...."

Is it possible the guards were afraid of them?

Should this be used as an opportunity to evalutate the rage which lies at the heart of this sector of Irish life? Compare and contrast it to lets say, the LA riots, the riots in Paris.... how it ties into identity, how it ties into how history is taught? To me this is a serious case of letting your enemy define you. [If indeed there is any enemy to begin with].

HelterSkelter

metrovelvet wrote:

Wait.... aren't guards also classifiably working class.... as are teachers, plumbers, etc....? Is class solely about income or is it complicated by other factors? Were these people actually working and employed? What industries would you say?

Could this thread be rephrased to say.... "riots ..excuse by sectors of the working class to attack dublin...."

Is it possible the guards were afraid of them?

Should this be used as an opportunity to evalutate the rage which lies at the heart of this sector of Irish life? Compare and contrast it to lets say, the LA riots, the riots in Paris.... how it ties into identity, how it ties into how history is taught? To me this is a serious case of letting your enemy define you. [If indeed there is any enemy to begin with].

Why are you afraid of stating your opinion? Why do you have to dress it up as a series of questions?

sovtek

Earthman wrote:

However Working class,middle class..??

Those terms are so 19th century

However so relevant today...unfortunetly.

fly_agaric

billy the squid wrote:

If parents cannot control their kids and don't know where they even are when they are out behaving in an anti-social manner then they should indeed have their custody rights of their children looked into.

You have the wrong end of the stick here. The person was advocating that the kids of the adult Dublin rioters/criminals be taken from them and put into state care. I could link to the post on that thread (on the TCD board) but I'm too lazy.

billy the squid wrote:

These people were scum not because they came from disadvantaged areas, I dont know any of them personally so i dont know where the **** they came from. These people were scum because they caused millions of euro in damage to innocent people.

I watched the 13 minute indymedia video last night and got the impression that had the riot police not shown up when they did that PDs office would have went up in smoke. you could hear calls for it to be torched after its windows were put in.

To claim that this is being used as an opportunity to knock the working class is bollix. Not all of the people involved came from working classes.

As well as that if one can afford a branded tracksuit and branded tackies they can buy a cheap pair of shoes in shoezone, a shirt pants and tie in pennies and go for a job interview.

The people in town last weekend had more money than you think.

What are you replying to me for? I don't know what all that has to do with anything I wrote. I'd agree with most of what you wrote. Would you like a round of applause?

I was agreeing with the point being made concerning the hypocrisy of some of the suggestions on what should be done with the rioters (battling street thuggery with extreme right-wing policies).

I also found it especially ironic to see so much of this coming from a bunch of students (who are usually quite left-wing)! Just goes to show how a witnessing riot can change your perspective I suppose.

Ganjdalf

meditraitor wrote:

The Celtic jersey is part of the official scumbag uniform, has been for a while.....

LOL:D

jdwals

There is one thing that the writer gets absolutley spot on in that article and that is who the rioters were, how the riot developed and how it all just snowballed.
Reading the papers, even today, it is clear that neither the politician's or the Gardaí have managed to get a grasp on those very points and are still scratching their heads to find a "political" or "subversive" reason for why the riot happened when there is not one.
It was a group of people who have no fear or respect for the Gardaí or authority, given a item to focus their anger and energy on and provided with a ready supply of ammuntion to use.
I keep on reading in the papers how the Gardaí had no intelligence that there were riots planned by any of the most likely suspect groups. But the Gardaí and those who gave the go ahead for the march to take place overlooked one crucial group - the common folk.
It's a lesson that has been thought to governements and politicians down through the ages but one they never seem to learn.

Sam Vimes

that article mentions anarchist organisations. isn't that an oxymoron?

Time Magazine

HelterSkelter wrote:

The tax band cut-off for 20% is fairly low, I think a significant percentage of working-class would be paying 42%. In any case I have what some would call a middle-class job but I'm from a working-class background and still live in a working-class area.

The cut off point for a single person is €32,000. That's more than the industrial wage in Sweden (link). You really call that working-class?

We have differing opinions on what working-class is.

The standard 100% Maintenance grant for a student is €23 a week.

Working class my arse. Nobody in Ireland will be happy until everybody is better off than anybody else.

GOAT_Ali

The protests occurred simply because Irish people were disgusted at the sight of the Orange/Loyalist bigots attempting to march down their streets singing anti Irish songs and preaching pure hate towards our Citizens. Anyone who seems to think it was in some way connected to the scumbag dole element is not tuned in. When I ask has Dublin seen such a mass display of anger on the streets because of unemployment of injustices on those is disadvantaged areas?. I cannot recall, so now all of a sudden it's a reason for the riots. Oh yes, and it just happened to coincide with the most Anti Irish, Anti Catholic group of People attempting to march down a street they despise, a land they despise and incite a people they despise.

How does anyone explain this?

seamus

There's no such thing as the working class anymore. There are people in Darndale earning more than GPs.

If you were saying that what would have typically been 1980s-early 90s working class areas, then I for one have never hidden my belief that a higher proportion of scum come from those areas. I don't tar them all with the same brush, but looking at the last general election, Sinn Féin's only real support came from the "working class" areas, and for the last ten years while the rest of us have been realising that the North is eating itself, they have only themselves to blame, the "working class" areas have still been chanting and fighting in the name of some long-dead soldiers who would turn in their graves at the sight of the ill-bred moronic monkeys who have no idea about Irish history past "Tiocfaidh ár la".

So, in summary, "working class" areas* = higher % of scum = higher proportion of Sinn Féin voters, therefore since a large amount of rioters were scum and Sinn Féin supporters, it stands to reason that a large amount of them were from "working class" areas.

* I use the term "working class" areas as a way of referring to these areas. The working class no longer exist except in tiny pockets of the community, and they're generally nice people struggling to put a roof over their families.

A Dub in Glasgo

seamus wrote:

There's no such thing as the working class anymore. There are people in Darndale earning more than GPs.

If you were saying that what would have typically been 1980s-early 90s working class areas, then I for one have never hidden my belief that a higher proportion of scum come from those areas. I don't tar them all with the same brush, but looking at the last general election, Sinn Féin's only real support came from the "working class" areas, and for the last ten years while the rest of us have been realising that the North is eating itself, they have only themselves to blame, the "working class" areas have still been chanting and fighting in the name of some long-dead soldiers who would turn in their graves at the sight of the ill-bred moronic monkeys who have no idea about Irish history past "Tiocfaidh ár la".

So, in summary, "working class" areas* = higher % of scum = higher proportion of Sinn Féin voters, therefore since a large amount of rioters were scum and Sinn Féin supporters, it stands to reason that a large amount of them were from "working class" areas.

* I use the term "working class" areas as a way of referring to these areas. The working class no longer exist except in tiny pockets of the community, and they're generally nice people struggling to put a roof over their families.

So to clarify, are you calling SF voters scum? Are the people of Cavan/Monaghan, Dublin South Central, Dublin South West, Kerry & Louth scum?

ishmael whale

jdwals wrote:

There is one thing that the writer gets absolutley spot on in that article and that is who the rioters were, how the riot developed and how it all just snowballed.

Indeed, if you edit out the 'lumpen proletariat' style jargon, its actually a very insightful piece. This is a small country, but we seem to manage to comparmentalise ourselves in some way so that we're insulated from what's happening only yards from streets we walk down every day.

On a lighter note (yes, at some stage we have to drop the po face) these tickled me, particularly the 'down with this sort of thing' one.

http://ricksbreakfastblog.blogspot.com/2006/02/dublin-riots-photos-you-never-saw.html
http://ricksbreakfastblog.blogspot.com/2006/03/photoshop-riots-part-2.html
http://ricksbreakfastblog.blogspot.com/2006/03/photoshop-riots-part-3.html

seamus

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

So to clarify, are you calling SF voters scum? Are the people of Cavan/Monaghan, Dublin South Central, Dublin South West, Kerry & Louth scum?

Did I say that?