Developmental Terrorism, Limerick's Urban Wetlands under threat

Amazotheamazing

I'm sure most people have read of the plans to destroy Westfields Wetlands, a special EU conservation area. Is Limerick to lose another park, after how the city mismanaged the People's Park nothing should be discounted. By my reckoning the following streets; Catherine, Roches, William, Wickham, Parnell, Gerald Griffin, Broad, Nicholas, Upper Henry, Cecil, Mallow and O'Curry are all in need of some serious redevelopment. Not to mention the derilict sites around Arthur's Quay and the Docklands. With such an abundance of suitable sites available within the city, why should Limerick suffer the loss of Parklands to make some developers rich and the city as a whole poorer?

I think we're all proud of the strides forward Limerick has made in the last 10 years but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Lets work on the existing city sites before we attack another public amenity. These parklands are not only a unique habitat within the British and Irish Isles, they are unique amenity within the city, capable of enjoyment by any Limerickman or woman. To lose them, to even risk losing them, would not be progress by any measure.

(I'm the poster justnotbothered on archiseek.com incase any of ye are regulars there too)

Limerick Dude

hey im limerick guy on archiseek and i saw your post on there. the hting is about those streets you have mentioned, tbh i cannot see people being brought back to them, there is just nothing there tbh except for solicitors offices etc and other little businesses. what do you think the council should do with these streets?
the things is about the wetlands, its such a good location right along side the river and would be perfect for apartments etc. and i just want to say that its not going to be all the wetlands destroyed, i say its just the bits from the condell road to the river, like the lake will still be there i say and isnt that the main part of the wetlands?

Inge Binge

what is the story about the "brown envelops"

just innocent asking...

How much do i have to pay for building permission in a public park? How much do i have to pay to get permission to build in a nature reserve?

It's just unbelievable!

IB

Amazotheamazing

If I follow you correctly you're suggesting ignoring run down streets and in favour of destroying the Wetlands? Why do you think it's easier to drain part of the Shannon than revitalise a street? Why should we, as Limerick people, have to put up with run down streets and the destruction of a public amenity? I see how the developers benefit from this, I don't see how they city or it's citizens benefit though.

The wetlands have already been badly damaged by the Condell road, though obviously, that was a necessary development. This new one isn't, it's a way of making a handful of people rich and the city as a whole poorer.

Surely, the strip of land adjacent to the Clarion (where the scrap heap is) is a much better site if you insist on riverviews, it's already land, it's in need of development, it's nearer the city centre, it won't involve destroying an EU special conservation area.

The Wetlands exist as a whole, you don't pick and choose what parts you want to keep. It's a delicate balance. It took years to revive after the Condell road was built, I gaurantee this plan will lead to the ultimate destruction of the area

Amazotheamazing

Inge Binge wrote:

what is the story about the "brown envelops"

just innocent asking...

How much do i have to pay for building permission in a public park? How much do i have to pay to get permission to build in a nature reserve?

It's just unbelievable!

IB

Welcome to Ireland Inge, anything's legal as long as you don't get caught.

We've done our best to knock or damage Limerick's medieval and Georgian hertitage, I view destroying Limerick's environment as the next logical step.

Inge Binge

Amzo, i love this country. I love the people here. Thats why i'm here now for about 2.5 years. In Limerick. And i defend Limerick where i can.

But politics - it's just an operetta! Why - why don't irish people see this? Is it the irish mentality?

I'm far away from saying "In my country where I come from..." but I can compare. In Germany would be an outcry if someone tries to take some natural land away for a building site. People *protest* even against cutting down a single tree in a street. Why don't care so less people here for their country? Are they deaf from the roaring of the Celtic Tiger?

It's sad.

IB

Amazotheamazing

I don't know Inge, I can't understand how someone could believe this development is good for the city. Think about it, I've listed 12 streets and 2 areas that could be great for the city if they were developed properly. How class would it be to have Arthur's Quay Park as the centre of a new living area, a highrise replacing the old Dunnes and behind Roches Stores, over looking the weir and the Park? Or a whole new district where the mostly obsolete docks are, plenty of space for considered development, could add a whole new quarter to the city. But instead, in Limerick, we feel the need to destroy parklands, why?

Inge Binge

It reminds me to Scrooge McDuck: see the $-signs in his eyes?

Or is it pure stupidity? Or blank ingnorance. Or just peasants on the throne? Reigning chulchies? You wont find a rational answer...

IB

Amazotheamazing

I think it's mostly greed and ignorance but I don't rule out the power of incompetence either.

The more I think of sites in town that need redevelopment, the more depressing this new disaster seems.

Inge Binge

In Germany we have the expression "heilige wut" - "holy anger" which means that you are very angry about something so obviusly stupid and you can't do anything to change it...

IB

jonski

Could it be that , and I am not well up on this , the areas that you mention are already owned privately and would therefore cost more , whereas the wetlands would be money into the corpos coffers .

Either way , it is as you say . A few people will make alot of money from this and the rest of Limerick will be poorer due to its demise .

thehungrysloth

1 agree with all sentiments above regarding the stupidity of even considering development in Westfields Wetlands.

I think we should be looking to close the Condell Road from the Salesians to the Clonmacken roundabout as soon as the proposed tunnel opens. Then let the developers have the first 300 yards or so from Clonmacken back and build as many flats as they like. Most will still have a good view and better still, a real park on their doorstep, one that isn't choking on the fumes of the daily tailback through it.

gaf1983

Amazotheamazing wrote:

If I follow you correctly you're suggesting ignoring run down streets and in favour of destroying the Wetlands? Why do you think it's easier to drain part of the Shannon than revitalise a street? Why should we, as Limerick people, have to put up with run down streets and the destruction of a public amenity? I see how the developers benefit from this, I don't see how they city or it's citizens benefit though.

I agree completely with you. Does anyone know what sort of public consultation there will be? When can objections be lodged against the development?

Here's the Irish Times' piece on it that appeared yesterday:

€1.5bn development planned for Limerick site on banks of Shannon
Karl Hanlon
28/02/2006


Plans to transform a wetland area in Limerick city along the banks of the Shannon with a €1.5 billion riverfront development are progressing swiftly, according to the consortium behind the project.


Promoters of the development confirmed that Limerick City Council had welcomed the project "in principle" and that other statutory bodies would now be consulted to move it to the next stage.

The project, which is being promoted by the Riverdeep Consortium, would mark the biggest development ever carried out in Limerick.

If it goes ahead it would also become the biggest infrastructural development on the river Shannon since the construction of the Ardnacrusha power station in the 1920s.

It is proposed that the massive development would be built on a narrow 50-acre site which stretches nearly a mile along the banks of the Shannon in Limerick city. Up to half of this wetland area, which is subject to flooding, would have to be reclaimed from the river with the construction of a massive dyke.

Five piers would be built in separate units, linked by a boardwalk, with each unit featuring 12-storey high pods housing apartments, a hotel, offices, a shopping complex and a gymnasium.

One of the biggest obstacles facing Riverdeep will be the preservation of a designated conservation area adjoining the site. However, it is understood the developers are proposing to set aside a significant budget to protect the area during construction.

Engineer Ned Sheedy, who is fronting the Riverdeep consortium, said the project was very much in keeping with the city council's stated aim of promoting Limerick as a riverside city.

"There are a few hurdles to be negotiated, but this will bring life back into the city," he said.

The other members of the consortium have not been publicly identified, but it is understood it also includes local auctioneers and solicitors.

It has not been revealed how the consortium aims to finance the development which property sources estimate could cost €500 million to build, with a finished value of up to €1.5 billion.

"At this point in time we can't disclose details of the financial operation, but financing this operation will not be a difficulty," Mr Sheedy said.

Following their meeting with council officials, the consortium must now open negotiations with the Office of Public Works, the Department of the Marine, the Department of the Environment and the EU.

The council currently owns some of the land in the proposed site, while the title of the mud flats along the riverfront is currently unclear.

Councillor Jim Long, who was approached by the developers for advice, said he would back the ambitious project as long as the consortium fulfilled all its statutory obligations.

The Riverdeep consortium said that construction work could start within 18 months.




© The Irish Times

limerick_man

Yeah, they dont want to take much outta the reserve!!! The land is mainly reclaimed land from the shannon river!!

Amazotheamazing

limerick_man wrote:

Yeah, they dont want to take much outta the reserve!!! The land is mainly reclaimed land from the shannon river!!

When they say they expect half the land to be reclaimed from the river, where do you suppose they'll find the other half?

Limerickman, why should this development be built ahead of developing so many other sites in the city? How does Limerick gain by losing it's already scarce Wetlands? Surely the best option is to develop the other side of the river, having highrise stretching from the ESB site to the end of the Docks? This is just people being dazzled by development for development's sake, without any long term consideration of how this will impact on the city.

cornbb

I totally agree with you Amazo. In 10-20 years these new apartments will be derilict holes and that beautiful stretch of riverbank will be gone for ever. These "developments" are not progress and they are not helpful to the city

TipTopToe

Inge Binge wrote:

I'm far away from saying "In my country where I come from..." but I can compare. In Germany would be an outcry if someone tries to take some natural land away for a building site. People *protest* even against cutting down a single tree in a street. Why don't care so less people here for their country? Are they deaf from the roaring of the Celtic Tiger?

Yeah the council did the rounds last month and cut down a half dozen beautiful old trees on my street. No one knew what was going on till the woodchipper drove off... :mad:

sioda

Any chance the reason theryare doing it is coz that site is within the city border thus will raise the inner city population?

As they aint getting the extension to the border they wanted this could explain it

Secret lump

People are saying that they have started clearing the land here already. Is this true?

Amazotheamazing

Not as far I know. Where did you hear such a rumour?

I honestly think this project, which hopefully will never happen, is years from even the planning stage. The guys behind it are bluffers and charltans, as far as I can see, they've no definate plans or funding.

Parsley

They say "It'll bring life back to the city". By destroying wetlands and getting rid of wildlife? YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT YOUR MONEY YOU SELFISH ****, CRAWL BACK INTO THE HOLE YOU CAME OUT OF AND DIE.

Venting is fun.

Limerick Dude

Parsley wrote:

They say "It'll bring life back to the city". By destroying wetlands and getting rid of wildlife? YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT YOUR MONEY YOU SELFISH ****, CRAWL BACK INTO THE HOLE YOU CAME OUT OF AND DIE.

Venting is fun.

he makes a good point

Parsley

Thank you. I think I should join a debating team.

Amazotheamazing

Bumping for Mysterious.

I'm even more opposed to this development now than I was last Feb. In no sense could it be viewed in a positive light for the city.

irishguy

Why dont they just put the money towards developing the docklands and green park making it a very desirable place to live with great amenites which are well designed. Otherwise they will have too many poor quality cheap units in the city which they cant fill/sell.

Crea

Is anyone planning on logging your concerns with the City Council and your local TD? It might be an idea.