Finnan and Evra

ullu

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,1720499,00.html

Fairly shocking if it's true but the fact it's taken so long to surface plants a seed of doubt in my mind.

jesus_thats_gre

So one deaf person said they could see him see it but another one does not see it.. yeah..

masterK

I thought this was a wind up when I first read it.

galwaydude

why didnt the player complain then if there was remarks made to evra.

TheMonster

galwaydude wrote:

why didnt the player complain then if there was remarks made to evra.

He may not have known. noise,back turned etc

TBH don't think there is anything to it, but if it turns out there is he should be harshly dealt with.

Big Nelly

Think this is a bit of a joke, cant really see Finnan saying some racist comment! he is not the sort! hardly speaks during the game anyway to his own players, just gets about his job and does it well.

dirkey_wynne

Personally, I'd think it's all a pile of poo. Probably some nazi Utd fan, trying to get back at Pool over what happened to Nev.

BaZmO*

Daniel Taylor
Wednesday March 1, 2006
The Guardian


A police investigation has been launched after deaf football fans complained they had lip-read Liverpool's Steve Finnan making a racist remark towards Patrice Evra of Manchester United.

I think they might just be a month too early with their story.

PHB

Well Evra doesn't speak english, so he wouldn't understand it.

as always with this sorta stuff, I'll assume its bollocks until it's proven.

Big Nelly

PHB wrote:

as always with this sorta stuff, I'll assume its bollocks until it's proven.

Exactly!!!

How many footie players in last while have been accused of rape just for it to turn out to be bull****!! was just reading Metro from last week and there was 350 complaints made to Ofcom during the Live8 concert because someone cursed on stage. There is some right gobsh**ts out there and will always try and complain about everything!!

mike65

How good is the lipreader? bearing in mind Finnan is Irish maybe what he said and what the lipreader saw were completly different. As said Finnan is a quiet chap I've never seen he get verbally angry with an opposing player.

Mike.

Mitch Connor

mike65 - Finnan was fairly angry with Evra when Evra got the free kick which led to the Rio Ferdinand goal, he wasdefinately shouting something at him, maybe he said something he should not have, in the heat of the moment.

Also, i have heard two seperate and independent complaints were made.

mike65

Heres's something from football365

It's alleged that the incident took place in the closing moments of the two sides' Premiership clash five weeks ago. The two fans, who watched the match on television, made separate complaints. According to The Sun, the firsy claimed that Finnan told Evra: "You black b*****d. Why don't you f*** off?". The second reported that Finnan said: "You f****** piece of black s***. F*** off."

A spokesman for Greater Manchester Police confirmed: "We received two separate complaints. It has been reported one of the players made an offensive comment during the Manchester United versus Liverpool match at Old Trafford on January 22. Investigations are continuing."

Liverpool described the allegations as "an outrageous slur", with a club spokesman announcing that: "We have had the tape analysed by a lip-reader and there is no evidence to support the allegations."

and from icliverpool

LIVERPOOL FC has employed a lip reading expert to determine if one of their players racially abused a Manchester United star during last month's league game at Old Trafford, it was revealed yesterday.

Two deaf Manchester United fans watching the match on TV claimed they read the lips of the Liverpool player and alleged he racially abused an opposing player.

The alleged comment was said to have been caught by the TV cameras in the closing minutes of the game on January 22.

It is understood that police have been taking witness statements and been reviewing footage of the game.

Staff at Anfield heard about the complaint and took the extraordinary step of employing the lip-reader. A spokesman said: "The police have not made contact with the player or anyone else at LFC. The first either the player or a club became aware of this was through the media and not from the police.

"We had the video of the game analysed yesterday by a lip-reading expert and there is no evidence at all to support this outrageous slur.

"The player vehemently denies these allegations. He has not used any such language."

Manchester United's spokesman confirmed the club had received complaints from fans but could not comment on matters involving the police.

A Football Association spokesman said it had not been informed of the allegations but would investigate if contacted by the police.

Mike.

BaZmO*

Anybody got a clip?

And as for the piece posted on football365,

"According to The Sun, the firsy claimed that Finnan told Evra: "You black b*****d. Why don't you f*** off?". The second reported that Finnan said: "You f****** piece of black s***. F*** off."

The Sun? nuff said....

Kingp35

Also both complaints suggest that he said different things. Cant be great lip-readers then can they! Sounds like a load of rubbish to me

super_furry

It's absolute bollox. Two bitter United fans trying to use their disabilities to get a Liverpool player into the ****.

wheres me jumpa

super_furry wrote:

It's absolute bollox. Two bitter United fans trying to use their disabilities to get a Liverpool player into the ****.

:eek:

Wont believe it until I see proof. But at the same time I think people should acknowledge that it is possible Finan made some comment. Id imagine it happens quiet a bit in football at all levels.

People with disabilities hardly have a track record of bringing this stuff up. If this was a rape case I would understand the scepticism.

BaZmO*

super_furry wrote:

It's absolute bollox. Two bitter United fans trying to use their disabilities to get a Liverpool player into the ****.

That's a bit ironic. You try to dismiss a story as being totally fabricated and then you go and make up your own story. How do you know if it's two Utd. fans?
And besides, so what if it was, either way it was just two people with way too much time on their hands. Or maybe the two deaf people were just narky from have to stay up late the previous night to watch all their subtitled shows.

super_furry

From the above story

"LIVERPOOL FC has employed a lip reading expert to determine if one of their players racially abused a Manchester United star during last month's league game at Old Trafford, it was revealed yesterday.

Two deaf Manchester United fans watching the match on TV claimed they read the lips of the Liverpool player and alleged he racially abused an opposing player.

The alleged comment was said to have been caught by the TV cameras in the closing minutes of the game on January 22............."

BaZmO*

Fair enuffski

They're still clowns though.

Big Nelly

super_furry wrote:

It's absolute bollox. Two bitter United fans trying to use their disabilities to get a Liverpool player into the ****.

Was this not in the game when Utd won? I didnt think it was in the FA Cup so the Liverpool fans would be the bitter ones!!

Davei141

"You black b*****d. Why don't you f*** off?".

"You f****** piece of black s***. F*** off."

Cmon guys, is it one or the other...:rolleyes: Bull**** story.

Jimi-Spandex

Well, at least we know that Finnan told him to **** off. that's pretty certain.

I can remember him cursing at Evra but I highly doubt that it was racist. I'm assuming it's grade-A bollocks.

eyerer

"the alleged remark was picked up by fans watching the game on television. Two contacted the police"

i find this to be disgusting anyway, what business is it of theirs (just my opinion)...get on with your own life

Big Nelly wrote:

during the Live8 concert someone cursed on stage.

lol, i heard about that. i was dissappointed i didn't see it
snoop dogg i believe it was

as for the rape crap, i think the liars should be severely dealt with. they attempt to ruin someone unjustly for dirty money, additionally it casts doubt over the cases where something did actually happen.
of course nothing will be done to them though:rolleyes:

PHB

If it was a racist remark, then I hope he gets a 5 match ban, eyerer, as he deserves it. People shouldn't have that sort of mentality towards another person, and in whatever field it is personal abuse, even if the guy can't understand it.

The problem lies in that if these guys are just making it up, then the next time an allegation like this comes along, its dismissed and ignored, which is why all rape cases against footballers are now seen as automatic fakes, when some might not be.
To an extent, I hope they are telling the truth, cause making it up just damages the cause more.

of course nothing will be done to them though

Find a solution which allows for girls who were actually raped but couldn't prove it not to be in any danger of that, and you'll be a hero to the entire world. It's not possible.

eyerer

i didn't say racism is good

ullu

Some points have been made that require comment.

bearing in mind Finnan is Irish maybe what he said and what the lipreader saw were completly different.

Finnan was born in Ireland but brought up in England and has an obviously English accent so this is irrelevant.

It's absolute bollox. Two bitter United fans trying to use their disabilities to get a Liverpool player into the ****.

It's totally out of order to assume that. The article implies that the complaint was made by the fans shortly after the match so bitterness would have little or nothing to do with it.

i find this to be disgusting anyway, what business is it of theirs (just my opinion)...get on with your own life

Do you think the photographer who took the pictures of the Asian shop workers being dragged from their shop and beaten and kicked during the riots the other day should have kept them to himself because it was none of his business?

My responses might lead people to believe I think Finnan is gulity. I don't. I have no opinion on it other than the fact that it took this long to be released in the media makes it seem a bit far fetched, though this is not a precedent for a story being false. Objectivity is necessary in cases like this and it hasn't been particularly abundant in this thread.

cruiserweight

Finnan has came out and denied all of the allegations

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4768652.stm

evad_lhorg

and what of evra? has he nothing to say?

Big Nelly

evad_lhorg wrote:

and what of evra? has he nothing to say?

"Bonjour, my nnnnaamme is Paddy"

TheMonster

evad_lhorg wrote:

and what of evra? has he nothing to say?

It was a utd/pool match so very loud so he possible didn't hear it or had his back turned.

He doesn't have to hear it or know about it to be a racist comment.:rolleyes:

rahim

TheMonster wrote:

It was a utd/pool match so very loud so he possible didn't hear it or had his back turned.

He doesn't have to hear it or know about it to be a racist comment.:rolleyes:

He doesn't have to have heard it to make a comment on it, its quite possible that he would come out and say he is aware of the allegations, he heard nothing and he will leave it up to the police to investigate, that he has no time for racism in football etc etc......also i'm sure he has seen the footage of the incident plenty of times being the one on the receiving end of the comments.

TheMonster

rahim wrote:

He doesn't have to have heard it to make a comment on it, its quite possible that he would come out and say he is aware of the allegations, he heard nothing and he will leave it up to the police to investigate, that he has no time for racism in football etc etc......also i'm sure he has seen the footage of the incident plenty of times being the one on the receiving end of the comments.

United have refused to comment(which I assume includes Evra) as it is possible criminal matter.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,1720499,00.html

cruiserweight

TheMonster wrote:

It was a utd/pool match so very loud so he possible didn't hear it or had his back turned.

He doesn't have to hear it or know about it to be a racist comment.:rolleyes:

Sounds like you think he is guilty! What about innocent until proven guilty???? But if he is found guilty he should get a huge ban, but I don't think he is!

Liverpool had a tape of the game reviewed by a lip reader, and he said he saw nothing to support the claims! The club has no reason to lie as no club would want to be associated with such comments or defending some one who made such comments!

BaZmO*

cruiserweight wrote:

The club has no reason to lie

cruiserweight wrote:

no club would want to be associated with such comments or defending some one who made such comments!

Is that not a reason to lie?

TheMonster

cruiserweight wrote:

Sounds like you think he is guilty! What about innocent until proven guilty???? But if he is found guilty he should get a huge ban, but I don't think he is!

Liverpool had a tape of the game reviewed by a lip reader, and he said he saw nothing to support the claims! The club has no reason to lie as no club would want to be associated with such comments or defending some one who made such comments!

I already said above that I don't think there is anything to it. What I am merely pointing out that Evra did not have to hear it or even be aware of it for it be true.

cruiserweight

BaZmO* wrote:

Is that not a reason to lie?

No because it could be quite easily found out if they lied further tarnishing the club! If they believed he had made such comments, they would probably not say anything!

rahim

TheMonster wrote:

United have refused to comment(which I assume includes Evra) as it is possible criminal matter.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,1720499,00.html

That makes sense, sorry.

mike65

http://media.putfile.com/lipread

Finnan deffo gets all anglo-saxon with FVck Off but I certainly could'nt read anything that comes before (bear in mind what you've read may colour your interpretation!).

Mike.

Chucky the tree

Its very very difficult to judge from that clip what he said. Lip reading isnt 100% perfect either.

Going by how finann usually acts i think its bollox.

PHB

Its goes something something **** off.

zAbbo

I think i can hear him mention PHB **** off, he may have also mention rose tinted and annoying, difficult to make out.

dr zoidberg

It looks a bit like "F***in black c***t, f*** off!" as far as I can make out anyway.

KdjaCL

zabbo wrote:

I think i can hear him mention PHB **** off, he may have also mention rose tinted and annoying, difficult to make out.

Clever use of thread to abuse someone, next time it will be 1 week ban.


kdjac

The_B_Man

looks like he sez "...u black sh*te, F**K off!".

tho it also coulda been "...ur bleedin sh*te, F**K OFF!", "u bolll*x, ur ****e, f**k off", or "u bag of sh*te, **** off!". all thats definate is that he told him to foook off. the camera catches him in mid sentence so he could be sayin anything.

also, if it tunrs out he did call him black, that still donest make him a racist. if i wanted to piss someone off, i'd call them something i knew would piss them off. u know how it is when ur angry. however, in this crazy PC world, he'll probably be branded a racist if this gets any decent publicity.

PHB

Greater Manchester Police have confirmed that no action will be taken against Liverpool star Steve Finnan after allegations that he racially abused Manchester United's Patrice Evra.

The Reds' right-back was accused by two deaf viewers who claimed they lip-read Finnan using an abusive term towards the French defender.

However after an investigation the former Fulham star, who strongly protested his innocence, has been cleared of any wrong-doing.

The Premiership side welcomed the developments, stating regret that Finnan's reputation had been put on the line.

"Obviously we welcome the news," said a Liverpool spokesman.

"Our own analysis of the television footage proved there was no evidence to back up these claims.

"It's very unfortunate that Steve's good name has been dragged through the mud in the meantime and we are glad this matter has now been resolved."

As expected

mike65

Typical! Good news of course but I wonder about the motivation of the complainers. Did they just read it wrong?

Mike.