lvl60 Rogues

dlofnep

Jimeatsmenu wrote:

The best pre-epic daggers (as I've said) are the Barman Shanker (which you can get solo) and the Distracting Dagger (in off hand) which comes off the prince in WDM. And yes the majority of good raid guilds wont take a lvl60 rogue that is now played as an alt or money maker for someone elses main.

Barman shanker is not the best pre-epic dagger. Electrified dagger probably is. Just requires a bit of AV grinding. Barman Shanker's proc breaks gouges all the time.

As far as rogues go - Learn how to play the class. Rogues are brilliant! When you are in AV and there are lot of opposing faction around, chances are - Your 3 - 4k health won't do you much good. Besides, your use in AV is to ninja flags - Not to stand toe to toe with warriors.

Lose the sword BTW - Dagger rogues FTW. Switch to daggers and watch cloth wearers instantly love you.. And by love I mean not like at all.

Caliden

Dustaz wrote:

If ever the phrase l2p applied......

i lol'd irl

Jim

dlofnep wrote:

Barman shanker is not the best pre-epic dagger. Electrified dagger probably is. Just requires a bit of AV grinding. Barman Shanker's proc breaks gouges all the time.

As far as rogues go - Learn how to play the class. Rogues are brilliant! When you are in AV and there are lot of opposing faction around, chances are - Your 3 - 4k health won't do you much good. Besides, your use in AV is to ninja flags - Not to stand toe to toe with warriors.

Lose the sword BTW - Dagger rogues FTW. Switch to daggers and watch cloth wearers instantly love you.. And by love I mean not like at all.

As I said before the shanker was the best when I my rogue was at that level. Just looked up the leccy dagger and it beats the shanker hands down. Procs ftl tbh.

Horsefumbler

I kind of thought the same thing about my druid when i just dinged 60 and only had blues and was fighting epic equipped 60s in bgs. Infact I remember thinking that rogues were a bit overpowered and very hard to kill.

The problem is with the way items from end game instances are such high levels( eg. tier 2 set is item level 76 or something) its effectively like playing against a higher level class when you have to fight one of these guys.

Now that I have decent gear I can kill even epic equipped rogues pretty easily, you'll find the same thing when/if you get some nightslayer gear and a decent weapon like labotomizer, gutgore ripper, perditions blade etc.

Bartonprince

Horsefumbler wrote:

I kind of thought the same thing about my druid when i just dinged 60 and only had blues and was fighting epic equipped 60s in bgs. Infact I remember thinking that rogues were a bit overpowered and very hard to kill.

The problem is with the way items from end game instances are such high levels( eg. tier 2 set is item level 76 or something) its effectively like playing against a higher level class when you have to fight one of these guys.

Now that I have decent gear I can kill even epic equipped rogues pretty easily, you'll find the same thing when/if you get some nightslayer gear and a decent weapon like labotomizer, gutgore ripper, perditions blade etc.

Ye, i just need to get him into a decent guild and then i can do some runs to get some of those better daggers and i'll be grand. I don't really want to PvP with him as it's not my work thats been put in, but i would like him to be strong enough to take down 53+ elites alone like in Tyrs hand.

abccormac

Bartonprince wrote:

t i would like him to be strong enough to take down 53+ elites alone like in Tyrs hand.

In all fairness you should be able to do that in crappy green gear. And with either the Krol blade or shanker, and 5 pieces of shadowcraft gear you should have no problems at all. Lots of people have said it already, and I'm not trying to be an asshole or anything, but the only way to really learn how a particular class works is to level it yourself.

Getting all of a classes abilities at once can be pretty overwhelming, levelling introduces them gradually and gives you a chance to learn when to use them etc. I made several characters on the test realms every time they were up, but the only one I could play properly were the warlocks, as they were the only class I had levelled myself. If you want to use the rogue to make cash for your mains, better gear will make very little difference if you cant kill an elite mob 7 levels lower than you with what you already have. Also, most decent guilds wouldn't take someone who's playing a character they haven't levelled themselves.

Bartonprince

abccormac wrote:

In all fairness you should be able to do that in crappy green gear. And with either the Krol blade or shanker, and 5 pieces of shadowcraft gear you should have no problems at all. Lots of people have said it already, and I'm not trying to be an asshole or anything, but the only way to really learn how a particular class works is to level it yourself.

Getting all of a classes abilities at once can be pretty overwhelming, levelling introduces them gradually and gives you a chance to learn when to use them etc. I made several characters on the test realms every time they were up, but the only one I could play properly were the warlocks, as they were the only class I had levelled myself. If you want to use the rogue to make cash for your mains, better gear will make very little difference if you cant kill an elite mob 7 levels lower than you with what you already have. Also, most decent guilds wouldn't take someone who's playing a character they haven't levelled themselves.

Ok i've respecced to a Hemo Dagger build with improved ambush and backstab. this works much better. i just have the shanker and a decent green dagger with +35 attack power in the off hand. I'm doing much better now that i set everything up myself. I even started getting some kills in AV and WSG.

Thanks for the constructive feedback.

Ivan

You didnt listen to a word we said, did you?...

/me sighs.

Bartonprince

Ivan wrote:

You didnt listen to a word we said, did you?...

/me sighs.

Didn't matter what i said m8, you would have said something like that. Thanks anyway.

Caliden

o_O what the hell are you talking about.....

Drakar

I've an idea, how about if people who want to advise BartonPrince on his tactics or specs post here, and everyone who wants to vilify him for inheriting a lvl60 character from someone else shush up.

Evac101

Recently got my rogue to 60 (beat ya 'plata! ) and I have to say if you think that taking a Tyrs Hand mob out using a rogue is difficult, esp in blues with a Krol, that you aren't familiar with any of the playstyles whiich rogues excell at. My, mostly green, rogue is still using a thrash in main hand and can take out a couple without having to heal/eat/bandage (sequentially, not simultaneously). As regards battles I've found a rogues greatest strengths to be encouraging paranoia in the enemy. Nothing like the fun of seeing a group of mages still AoEing in the distance trying to getcha after you sapped one of them or purposefully stealthing up within their view while heading towards them, even if you have no intention of going anywhere near them. Priests in particular seem suseptable to the second tactic, almost like they've been indoctrinated into believing they are rogue fodder.......

Final note is that my more experienced guildies inform me that the shanker has been nerfed a little but is still a very good choice.

Bartonprince

Evac101 wrote:

Recently got my rogue to 60 (beat ya 'plata! ) and I have to say if you think that taking a Tyrs Hand mob out using a rogue is difficult, esp in blues with a Krol, that you aren't familiar with any of the playstyles whiich rogues excell at. My, mostly green, rogue is still using a thrash in main hand and can take out a couple without having to heal/eat/bandage (sequentially, not simultaneously). As regards battles I've found a rogues greatest strengths to be encouraging paranoia in the enemy. Nothing like the fun of seeing a group of mages still AoEing in the distance trying to getcha after you sapped one of them or purposefully stealthing up within their view while heading towards them, even if you have no intention of going anywhere near them. Priests in particular seem suseptable to the second tactic, almost like they've been indoctrinated into believing they are rogue fodder.......

Final note is that my more experienced guildies inform me that the shanker has been nerfed a little but is still a very good choice.

Ok it's taking a while, but i am very slowly getting the hang of using him. I have done some duels with an epic equipped Rogue who was making mince meat of me at the start, but now i have more experience...he's still making mince meat of me .

I am also lvling up the priest as well, this is quite fun as i like the idea of healing everyone, i've done loads of PVE questing and stuff with him and he's lvl34 now, i'm quite used to using all of his spells now.

I also got my OWN Warlock lvl'd up to lvl37 on another server which is cool. The warlock seems more powerful and seems better in WSG at the moment for his lvl. But i am liking the whole priest thing.

Any suggestions for any leveling builds for him? At the moment i have the priest points all in the Shadow tree

NeoSlicerZ

Lol... chinese farmers kill the mobs at Tyr's hand with ease. Try stunlocking.

Bartonprince

NeoSlicerZ wrote:

Lol... chinese farmers kill the mobs at Tyr's hand with ease. Try stunlocking.

hehe doesn't seem true, they hit very hard and i can't heal, i am starting my attacks like this... stealth > improved ambush > Hemo > Gouge > Backstab > Backstab > Kidney Shot > Backstab > combo move (can't remember.. but it uses the combo points. And they still have loads of health left and have started beating on me then.

There was a couple of Paladins get owned there as well! hehe

Evac101

Uhm - I can solo with a cheapshot, ss, ss, (possible third ss if needed to hit 5 points), Evis, ss until the last 20-30% has been removed, rinse and repeat. This is as a 'weak' talent build sword rogue (weak referring to the lack of any 21 or 31 point talents in the build I play;D).

anonymous_joe

Use poison! Always fun...

Thren

Evac101 wrote:

Uhm - I can solo with a cheapshot, ss, ss, (possible third ss if needed to hit 5 points), Evis, ss until the last 20-30% has been removed, rinse and repeat. This is as a 'weak' talent build sword rogue (weak referring to the lack of any 21 or 31 point talents in the build I play;D).

This is almost exactly what I do - although I do throw in Riposte a fair few times and a few SnD. If you aggro more than one for whatever reason, Evasion and Blade Flurry are great. Also, Evasion and Agility potions are damn handy, whatever you are doing. As for your gear - go grind DM for the blue drops there - Evil Eye Pendant, Bracers of the Eclipse and Flamescarred Shoulders are all pretty nice...

Evac101

*shiver* DM grind - must do that for the shoulders to start FR'ing my rogue up

Luckily I'm in a guild which allows us to bring alts in on guild AQ/ZG/MC runs so the NR and FR must rise....

swiss

As a lvl 60 rogue I did grind occasionally in Tyr's hand, if the battle got tough I just used one of my cooldowns. I don't know what tactics other people use but I tend to ambush then use gouge and backstab as much as I can, and use kidney shot when I reach 5 points. Using poisons helps take them down more quickly too, instant poison VI does the trick nicely I find.

Also I would also recommend the barmans shanker as a relatively easily obtainable good blue dagger. I hated the proc on the weapon (bleed over 30 seconds) as I use gouge and blind. I now use the glacial blade (you need to get to revered in AV for this item) but keep the shanker as a backup.

Bartonprince

swiss wrote:

As a lvl 60 rogue I did grind occasionally in Tyr's hand, if the battle got tough I just used one of my cooldowns. I don't know what tactics other people use but I tend to ambush then use gouge and backstab as much as I can, and use kidney shot when I reach 5 points. Using poisons helps take them down more quickly too, instant poison VI does the trick nicely I find.

Also I would also recommend the barmans shanker as a relatively easily obtainable good blue dagger. I hated the proc on the weapon (bleed over 30 seconds) as I use gouge and blind. I now use the glacial blade (you need to get to revered in AV for this item) but keep the shanker as a backup.

OK, i went there last night and took on board some of your info and i can solo them now. I sometimes have problems with the ones that heal (i try to kick when they are casting but it has a cooldown). I let a couple of them heal which hurt... Vanish ftw!

Evac101

As a rogue you have three different options to interrupt casters:

Gouge: Costs around 35 energy, interrupts all actions, dodgable.
Kick: Costs around 40 energy, interrupts casting and prevents spells being cast for 5 seconds.
Kidney Shot: Costs around 40 energy, requires 'combo points', interrupts all actions.

You shouldn't ever, in 1v1 PvE, run out of these options. Even if Kick and Kidney Shot are on cooldown, Gouge will still be available, etc.

Jim

Kick only prevents spells being cast in the same school as the one you interuptted for 5 secs. Imp Kick will silence completly.

Bartonprince

Jimeatsmenu wrote:

Kick only prevents spells being cast in the same school as the one you interuptted for 5 secs. Imp Kick will silence completly.

haha it's funny, you lvl up and become a master rogue, with fire swords and daggers dripping with poison, you can vanish into thin air when there are 10 mobs hopping off you... yet one of your main moves to stop getting hurt is a kick in the minerals

Jim

The magic minerals to be exact. I try to use kick as often as possible as a finisher if people are on 1%.

dlofnep

Tyr's hand is easy to grind. Don't ever start off with ambush. Start with a cheap shot and keep them locked down. Spellcasters are easier as you can just kick them if you lose lock.

dlofnep

Evac101 wrote:

Recently got my rogue to 60 (beat ya 'plata! .

Lies, I've been 60 for a month or more!