Anti-Union/Pro-Union

St_Crispin

What a bloody rag.
I spent 15 minutes flicking idly through the pages before I wanted to slit my throat.
There was nothing worth reading it it. The articles were drivel. The layout was atrocious. I would expect better editing from a retarded infant simian.

If anyone wants an example of how bad the paper actually is, take a look at the L&D section (Centre pages). For example, the word literature can be seen misspelled twice in the same paragraph. One of the authors arguments states that no-one likes exams because the author doesn't know anyone who likes exams. There are many more mistakes in that article which should have been picked up by the editor (who is either illerate or never read the article).

I have never been the most proficient at spelling. But I do have two skills worthy of note. Although when writing I will make mistakes, I will pick up on most of them when I review my work. And I can use a spellchecker.

I feel disappointed when I see the standard of writing/editing in the spoke. There are many errors which primary school children would be able to correct. And I can't help but wonder who blew who to get ahead. There are many contributers and the editor who don't deserve their jobs. Is this the best talent that maynooth can produce?

The real crime is that it's the students of maynooth who pay for it's publication.

Pherekydes

St_Crispin wrote:

One of the authors arguments...
...illerate...
...contributers...

The real crime is that it's the students of maynooth who pay for it's [sic] publication.

Hmmmm.

Is this the best talent that maynooth can produce?

Apparently so.

St_Crispin

Slow coach wrote:

Hmmmm.

I'm not a journalist.
I'm not pretending to be.
I'm also not editing a publication.
I'm unaware of any spell check on this site.

Now, would you like to comment on the quality of the spoke?

FunkyChicken

they should print the muhammad pictures next issue and throw in a few crosswords

Marco Polo

Yeah, the latest issue is a disappointment. Before Christmas, it was riddled with spelling errors, layout errors and shoddy writing. I remember the "white text on a light yellow background" issue as being the worst. They clearly don't spellcheck or proof-read the thing. After the editoral claiming they were sprucing it up, I had moderate hopes but it's still as poor as ever.

Except that they seem to have doubled the number of staff. They've thrown in more editors and asst. editors. Looks like a bunch of SU-heads want to bulk out their cvs coming up to the end of their terms in office and as a side-effect, are inflicting their "articles" on the rest of us.

When will they realise that their problem is quality not quantity?

archdukefranz

Marco Polo wrote:

Yeah, the latest issue is a disappointment. Before Christmas, it was riddled with spelling errors, layout errors and shoddy writing. I remember the "white text on a light yellow background" issue as being the worst. They clearly don't spellcheck or proof-read the thing. After the editoral claiming they were sprucing it up, I had moderate hopes but it's still as poor as ever.

Except that they seem to have doubled the number of staff. They've thrown in more editors and asst. editors. Looks like a bunch of SU-heads want to bulk out their cvs coming up to the end of their terms in office and as a side-effect, are inflicting their "articles" on the rest of us.

When will they realise that their problem is quality not quantity?

who do we write to and complain to
so we can get on our asses and write and complain

lordgoat

St_Crispin wrote:

What a bloody rag.
I spent 15 minutes flicking idly through the pages before I wanted to slit my throat.
There was nothing worth reading it it. The articles were drivel. The layout was atrocious. I would expect better editing from a retarded infant simian.

If anyone wants an example of how bad the paper actually is, take a look at the L&D section (Centre pages). For example, the word literature can be seen misspelled twice in the same paragraph. One of the authors arguments states that no-one likes exams because the author doesn't know anyone who likes exams. There are many more mistakes in that article which should have been picked up by the editor (who is either illerate or never read the article).

I have never been the most proficient at spelling. But I do have two skills worthy of note. Although when writing I will make mistakes, I will pick up on most of them when I review my work. And I can use a spellchecker.

I feel disappointed when I see the standard of writing/editing in the spoke. There are many errors which primary school children would be able to correct. And I can't help but wonder who blew who to get ahead. There are many contributers and the editor who don't deserve their jobs. Is this the best talent that maynooth can produce?

The real crime is that it's the students of maynooth who pay for it's publication.

Do something constructive about it then... as opposed to give out about it on the internet...

St_Crispin

I just went to nuimsu.com to try and find an email address I can complain to. The spoke isn't mentioned there. However on the main page in bold is job oppurtunitys. It's the only spelling mistake there. But I do find it amusing that it's also the only text on their main page in bold.

Marco, it is rather distressing that the contributers will be able to add this to their cv's. And that if a prospective employer rang, they will get a glowing reference.

Anyone happen to know the email address of the spoke? I intend grab a copy and to write to them and list all the errors in one article (I haven't got the time for the whole paper).

St_Crispin

Double post

europerson

You haven't even been mentioned for a Smedia! Pathetic!

Time Magazine

St_Crispin wrote:

I just went to nuimsu.com to try and find an email address I can complain to. The spoke isn't mentioned there. However on the main page in bold is job oppurtunitys. It's the only spelling mistake there. But I do find it amusing that it's also the only text on their main page in bold.

Oh grow up. It's a student newspaper that is free and done completely voluntarily. Have you any idea the amount of work that has to go into making a newspaper? Europerson has seen me lay out a few pages (not for The Spoke, mind) and he can confirm it can genuinely take anything up to six hours to layout a somewhat-compilcated page correctly.

Marco, it is rather distressing that the contributers will be able to add this to their cv's.

Why? Are you really that petty?

And that if a prospective employer rang, they will get a glowing reference.

Rightly so.

Anyone happen to know the email address of the spoke? I intend grab a copy and to write to them and list all the errors in one article (I haven't got the time for the whole paper).

I can almost guarantee they're aware of them. What one sees on a screen does not correspond to what one sees on a page. And from a personal point of view, there's nothign more disheartening than pouring so much time into a page and it coming out crap. I've pretty impeccable grammar and spelling, usually. But when it comes to newspaper pages you've no idea how difficult it is to maintain. The average broadsheet page contains two- to two and half thousand words. That's a whole essay worth. For my paper, it's all 9pt font. When you print it out, it comes out on an A4 page so you're basically wading through a 2,500 word essay at 4pt font. Multiply that by say thirty pages and you're looking at 75,000 words at 4pt font. And no, there's no effective spell-checker on Quark, the industry-standard for publications.

I gave a more detailed analysis of why it's so hard to spellcheck newspapers on the TCD SU board (www.tcdsu.org) but I can't be arsed checking it for you when you seem to be so ignorant of how much work this takes, all done voluntarily. At least show some respect before you ask me to point out all the intricacies.

If you're so pressed to complain, write an article yourself. I'm sure they'd love to have one less to write.

trekkypj

archdukefranz wrote:

who do we write to and complain to
so we can get on our asses and write and complain

Er, the editor???

While I agree that the quality of the punctuation and spelling can always be improved, you're overlooking the time and effort required to do a newspaper. It is far from perfect, true, but it's a heluva lot better than no paper. And over the course of the year it has become a lot better actually.

A newspaper needs huge time spent on layout, design and sorting it for the
printers. I know the current VP works bloody hard to get the paper out, and I know for a fact she has stayed till all hours to get the paper finished on time.

The only person paid for the paper is the VP Comms & Dev, and the paper is only one of many responsibilities. The rest are volunteers and it's mean-spirited to throw it back in their faces and say it's not good enough, while not contributing one whit to the production of what is a volunteer effort.

Most of the stuff, although sometimes needing another go with proof reading, is relevant, factually accurate and it isn't long winded. What you're being critical of is a minor issue. It does what it is supposed to do, and that is inform people.

If you think you can do better, then write articles yourself. They haven't enough writers because nobody except the same few people submit anything. If your work is better it will be printed.

Angry Banana

Angry Banana wrote:

Oh grow up. It's a student newspaper that is free and done completely voluntarily. Have you any idea the amount of work that has to go into making a newspaper?

And do you have any idea about the amount of work it takes to get a spellcheck done? Oh yeah, none.

I don't care if it's done voluntarily or they're all forced to do it by law, rubbish like that "canteen correspondant" piece does not belong in any paper.
Recording a conversation from the canteen, describing the people who took part in it, throwing in a few attempts at wit, and finishing with the conclusion that the author is an idiot who drinks too much and snogs random girls is a joke. And I don't mean in the way he intended. Trying to make it sound like it's deep and meaningful was worse.
If they can't do it properly, they shouldn't be doing it.

Time Magazine

bluewolf wrote:

And do you have any idea about the amount of work it takes to get a spellcheck done? Oh yeah, none.

Did you read the rest of my post? Had you, you might have seen:

Angry Banana wrote:

And no, there's no effective spell-checker on Quark, the industry-standard for publications.

Do you think I'm stupid? Really, like? Well let's assume you'll pick the right answer, and with that answer fresh in your mind answer me this: why, then, do I print off any page I send to print and manually read through for spelling errors? Might it be that you don't know the details of spell-checkers for a product (I assume) you've never used? Just maybe? Maybe it might be that. But I'll take your word on it, you seem to be very knowledgeable on all things publications - God knows you wouldn't be so uppity if you didn't.

Tripe tripe tripe, blah blah blah ... If they can't do it properly, they shouldn't be doing it.

:rolleyes:. Don't get me started on the political parties - how many elections have they swung? I bet it's probably less than one. The should be gone, definitely.

A those damn DanceSoc members are crap at dancing too. You know, they should be disbanded. Bunch of amatuers the lot of them.

Though the treasurer's hot.

Angry Banana

Angry Banana wrote:

Did you read the rest of my post? Had you, you might have seen: -snip-

My sincere apologies, but surely they could find a way around that. Seeing "literareture" written a couple of times in one article is a bit much, not to mention the other typos.

Do you think I'm stupid? Really, like?

Nope.

Well let's assume you'll pick the right answer, and with that answer fresh in your mind answer me this: why, then, do I print off any page I send to print and manually read through for spelling errors?

That's good for you. But from what I've read in the spoke, such a practice is not evident.

Might it be that you don't know the details of spell-checkers for a product (I assume) you've never used? Just maybe?

I have used it, but it's been a while.

Maybe it might be that. But I'll take your word on it, you seem to be very knowledgeable on all things publications - God knows you wouldn't be so uppity if you didn't.

Publications, no. Good English and awareness of typos - I hope so.

A those damn DanceSoc members are crap at dancing too. You know, they should be disbanded. Bunch of amatuers the lot of them.

Though the treasurer's hot.

Aw, I thought they were ok.

Time Magazine

bluewolf wrote:

My sincere apologies, but surely they could find a way around that. Seeing "literareture" written a couple of times in one article is a bit much, not to mention the other typos.

Yeah typos are a pain, but they're even harder to wean out. My page in the last edition of the paper was ridiculously bad.

That's good for you. But from what I've read in the spoke, such a practice is not evident.

Yeah it can be done, but it can literally double to amount of time it takes to produce a paper. And sometimes that just isn't physically possible, so feel free to give them a break.

Publications, no. Good English and awareness of typos - I hope so.

I've a fairly good grasp of the foreign tongue alright, and despise typos (there's a bloody apostrophe in Students' Union people!) but I now appreciate there is a massive difference between checking a post on boards or an essay and publishing a newspaper.

Aw, I thought they were ok.

Yeah, like I said, the treasurer's hot . I might be biased though .

St_Crispin

trekkypj wrote:

Er, the editor???

While I agree that the quality of the punctuation and spelling can always be improved, you're overlooking the time and effort required to do a newspaper. It is far from perfect, true, but it's a heluva lot better than no paper. And over the course of the year it has become a lot better actually.

A newspaper needs huge time spent on layout, design and sorting it for the
printers. I know the current VP works bloody hard to get the paper out, and I know for a fact she has stayed till all hours to get the paper finished on time.

The only person paid for the paper is the VP Comms & Dev, and the paper is only one of many responsibilities. The rest are volunteers and it's mean-spirited to throw it back in their faces and say it's not good enough, while not contributing one whit to the production of what is a volunteer effort.

Most of the stuff, although sometimes needing another go with proof reading, is relevant, factually accurate and it isn't long winded. What you're being critical of is a minor issue. It does what it is supposed to do, and that is inform people.

If you think you can do better, then write articles yourself. They haven't enough writers because nobody except the same few people submit anything. If your work is better it will be printed.

I love the way it's mean spirited to criticise a badly done job because it's done by volunteers. Are all volunteers immune from any criticism. Whenever I see someone criticising a badly done job, I'm always told that they should give ppl a break and do it themselves. I don't have to. If I volunteered for something I'd make damn sure I was able to do it.

Should a volunteer in a soup kitchen be allowed to get away with burning stuff? Should a volunteer on a help line have a stammer? There are certain standards that they should meet. I would consider literacy to be a priority in journalism.

Angry Banana wrote:

Oh grow up. It's a student newspaper that is free and done completely voluntarily. Have you any idea the amount of work that has to go into making a newspaper? Europerson has seen me lay out a few pages (not for The Spoke, mind) and he can confirm it can genuinely take anything up to six hours to layout a somewhat-compilcated page correctly.

Why? Are you really that petty?

Rightly so.

I can almost guarantee they're aware of them. What one sees on a screen does not correspond to what one sees on a page. And from a personal point of view, there's nothing more disheartening than pouring so much time into a page and it coming out crap. I've pretty impeccable grammar and spelling, usually. But when it comes to newspaper pages you've no idea how difficult it is to maintain. The average broadsheet page contains two- to two and half thousand words. That's a whole essay worth. For my paper, it's all 9pt font. When you print it out, it comes out on an A4 page so you're basically wading through a 2,500 word essay at 4pt font. Multiply that by say thirty pages and you're looking at 75,000 words at 4pt font. And no, there's no effective spell-checker on Quark, the industry-standard for publications.

I gave a more detailed analysis of why it's so hard to spell-check newspapers on the TCD SU board (www.tcdsu.org) but I can't be arsed checking it for you when you seem to be so ignorant of how much work this takes, all done voluntarily. At least show some respect before you ask me to point out all the intricacies.

If you're so pressed to complain, write an article yourself. I'm sure they'd love to have one less to write.

So, you're telling me that every contributor writes every article in quark? And that they're all submitted in a quark format? Where do they get all the licenses? Sorry, that's just me being pedantic. Of course they don't write it in that. They'd write in word or lotus or WordPerfect. And they can use the bloody spell checker there. The editor should read the articles first and they should notice the worst of the spelling mistakes. They're making mistakes that they would get penalised for when writing an essay or an exam. They are elementary grammar/spelling mistakes that a primary school child would be chastised for. Are you telling me I shouldn't expect primary school literacy from a college student? Seriously, tell me how that's acceptable?

I'm aware that it's a lot of hard work making a paper full of drivel (Despite myself being ignorant. Well done on the judging there). So maybe they shouldn't bother with the drivel. Are the reports from the canteen correspondent or that debate really necessary? If they can't do it properly they shouldn't do it at all. They can release it without all the extra stuff and let it just be an informative news letter. Alternatively, they could try to maintain some standards. They seem to have very low standards at the moment and a lack of respect for their readership if they'll allow any illiterate crap to be printed.

And remember, it takes money to print that drivel too. Money that comes from students.

St_Crispin

Angry Banana wrote:

:rolleyes:. Don't get me started on the political parties - how many elections have they swung? I bet it's probably less than one. The should be gone, definitely.

A those damn DanceSoc members are crap at dancing too. You know, they should be disbanded. Bunch of amatuers the lot of them.

Though the treasurer's hot.

What the hell has that got to do with anything? Besides the treasure being hot (I'll take your word on it).

If the dance soc decided to put on a professional show every month, and fecked it up every month, how long would it be before they were told to stop?

But we're not talking about something like that. We're talking about an extreme lack of professionalism. All it takes is a spell checker (or literacy).

If a professional journalist/editor allowed those mistakes in articles they'd be a laughing stock. Because it is the most basic skill nessecary. I'm not expecting pulitzer award winning exposes. I'm not expecting the most eloquent prose. I'm expecting literacy.

Time Magazine

St_Crispin wrote:

What the hell has that got to do with anything? Besides the treasure being hot (I'll take your word on it).

If the dance soc decided to put on a professional show every month, and fecked it up every month, how long would it be before they were told to stop?

A long, long time. It's a student publication. They're not professionals. It is, by and large, a recreational activity.

But we're not talking about something like that. We're talking about an extreme lack of professionalism.

In a student publication? You.can't.be.serious.

All it takes is a spell checker

Please read the thread. Or lose some of the hypocricy. Of all people in the thread you've the worst spelling record.

(or literacy).

I'm fairly sure they're all literate. Read the thread.

If a professional journalist/editor allowed those mistakes in articles they'd be a laughing stock.

And perhaps that's a reason why they're not professionals. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but they're not even journalism students? Do NUIM do a journalism course?

Because it is the most basic skill nessecary. I'm not expecting pulitzer award winning exposes. I'm not expecting the most eloquent prose. I'm expecting literacy.

They're literate. And if you'd like to proof-read for them I'm sure they'd be delighted. Not everyone can say "I'm expecting literacy" and do nothing about it, somebody has to actually do the hard slog. G'wan ahead, a marginal increase increases the average. G'wan.

St_Crispin

Angry Banana wrote:

A long, long time. It's a student publication. They're not professionals. It is, by and large, a recreational activity.

In a student publication? You.can't.be.serious.

Please read the thread. Or lose some of the hypocricy. Of all people in the thread you've the worst spelling record.

I'm fairly sure they're all literate. Read the thread.

And perhaps that's a reason why they're not professionals. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but they're not even journalism students? Do NUIM do a journalism course?

They're literate. And if you'd like to proof-read for them I'm sure they'd be delighted. Not everyone can say "I'm expecting literacy" and do nothing about it, somebody has to actually do the hard slog. G'wan ahead, a marginal increase increases the average. G'wan.

If you're sure they're all literate, you haven't read the paper.
NUIM do a media studies course. They also study English. And as I said, they're making mistakes that not even primary students would make.
Yes I expect a certain amount of professionalism from them. I never said that I'm expecting cutting edge journalism. I'm expecting them to correct an abnormal amount of spelling/grammar mistakes. Or are they allowed to write any drivel at all? Because that would mean that they put feck all work into the publication. This pretty much kills your point about the amount of work they do.
It would also imply that all the executive officers are just playing around at their posts. I mean we can't expect them to work to a certain standard can we? They're volunteers and thereby exempt from it all.

I also said that if they can't do it right, they shouldn't do it at all (which does remind me. How come you managed to ignore where I said that. In fact you ignored the whole post). It's a waste of their/our time and money to do it.

As for saying I should do it... That's just a cop out. I've said I'm not a journalist, or pretending to be one. I also never signed up to do that job. It's not my responsibility, it's theirs. And you cannot remove the blame from them and put it on me. It's no excuse for their ineptitude.

Does the trinity su newspaper allow people to publish any drivel they want? Do they publish any and all errors that may crop up in articles? Or do they have standards?

St_Crispin

Angry Banana wrote:

Please read the thread. Or lose some of the hypocricy. Of all people in the thread you've the worst spelling record.

Please read the thread. Or lose some of the hypocrisy. I have said that I make mistakes. I never said that I didn't. And for what it's worth you'll be hard pressed to find any spelling mistakes in my last three or four posts. Because I used a spell checker. :P
G'wan, find those mistakes. G'wan.

Time Magazine

St_Crispin wrote:

you'll be hard pressed to find any spelling mistakes in my last three or four posts. Because I used a spell checker. :P
G'wan, find those mistakes. G'wan.

Right, when it reaches the stage when an argument has declined to that level of impotence I step out knowing I've made my point.

brianthebard

Angry Banana wrote:

Oh grow up. It's a student newspaper that is free and done completely voluntarily. Have you any idea the amount of work that has to go into making a newspaper? Europerson has seen me lay out a few pages (not for The Spoke, mind) and he can confirm it can genuinely take anything up to six hours to layout a somewhat-compilcated page correctly.

Isn't the editor of the spoke a sabbatical officer? I was told they get paid for the work they do.
I've used/helped/watched Quark being used to make a paper and it really is a bitch.
I thought that the first issue of the spoke out last semester was really good, but it's gone downhill since then.
Still at least they are getting a paper out.

Pherekydes

St_Crispin wrote:

G'wan, find those mistakes. G'wan.

You asked for it:

• ppl

• licenses

• treasure

• pulitzer

• exposes

Happy? Come on back with the corrections.

I also said that if they can't do it right, they shouldn't do it at all...

This is your quote. Surely critics should be held to the same standards?

They are elementary grammar/spelling mistakes that a primary school child would be chastised for. Are you telling me I shouldn't expect primary school literacy from a college student? Seriously, tell me how that's acceptable?

Assuming you're a college student yourself, you should be able to answer that yourself. Without spelling or grammar mistakes. And you'll see from mistake #2 above that a spell checker won't pick up certain mistakes; you just have to be literate.

St_Crispin

Slow coach wrote:

You asked for it:



Happy? Come on back with the corrections.



This is your quote. Surely critics should be held to the same standards?



Assuming you're a college student yourself, you should be able to answer that yourself. Without spelling or grammar mistakes. And you'll see from mistake #2 above that a spell checker won't pick up certain mistakes; you just have to be literate.

For what it matters pulitzer is spelt correctly. http://www.pulitzer.org/ (I have a cousin who's both been nominated for it and judged it so it's a competition I'm very familar with)

So is exposes http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=exposes

Ppl is a very commonly used abbreviation in the internet. I wouldn't use it in a professional piece. But it is perfectly acceptable online.

And http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=licenses to finish off. Yes, there are two ways to spell that word. BUt the way I did it is acceptable.

I made some mistakes. But I found many more. It took only a minute to spell check it. I've never said that I have great spelling ability. And I also never claimed I could do any of the other sabbatical/executive positions. However if I see something wrong I'm still entitled to comment on it.

If you do nothing else in your reply could you at least tell me what, if any, standards you think the spoke should have. And if it shouldn't have standards, are all executive officers exempt from standards too? In fact can any volunteer be held accountable for the work they produce?

St_Crispin

Anyways, you can take a low route to debating and attack my spelling and me. But all you're doing is avoiding the issue. If you have a problem with what I'm saying then debate it. A handy rule of thumb is attack the post not the poster.

Pherekydes

St_Crispin wrote:

For what it matters pulitzer is spelt correctly. http://www.pulitzer.org/ (I have a cousin who's both been nominated for it and judged it so it's a competition I'm very familar with)

It's Pulitzer. Proper names are capitalized. We must have some standards, after all.

So is exposes http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=exposes

I think you meant exposés, though.

Ppl is a very commonly used abbreviation in the internet. I wouldn't use it in a professional piece. But it is perfectly acceptable online.

But not in a critique about spelling and grammar.

And http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=licenses to finish off.
Yes, there are two ways to spell that word. BUt the way I did it is acceptable.

Perfectly acceptable. In the USA. Over this side we use licences.

To be honest, none of this is in any way improving the quality of articles in the Spoke. You can pick at each other's posts all you like, but this is not a published newspaper, nor is it going to be.

Pherekydes

St_Crispin wrote:

Anyways, you can take a low route to debating and attack my spelling and me. But all you're doing is avoiding the issue. If you have a problem with what I'm saying then debate it. A handy rule of thumb is attack the post not the poster.

Listen pal, you take the low route to criticising the publication of the Spoke. Why not write to the editors? When you criticise their spellings and grammar, make sure your own is top notch. Have a read of the Evening Herald or Irish Times. You can pick up spelling and grammar mistakes in those fully professional publications. Yet an amateur publication is held up to perfection.

For the record, I have no link with the Spoke or its publishers.

In conclusion, write to the editors.

trekkypj

St_Crispin wrote:

If you're sure they're all literate, you haven't read the paper.

So everyone who writes articles is equally guilty eh? :rolleyes:

St_Crispin wrote:

NUIM do a media studies course. They also study English. And as I said, they're making mistakes that not even primary students would make.

Yes I expect a certain amount of professionalism from them. I never said that I'm expecting cutting edge journalism. I'm expecting them to correct an abnormal amount of spelling/grammar mistakes.

Firstly, your point is flawed. Media students don't study print journalism, they study broadcast journalism and media theory. And I don't recall that English students were taught how to spell, or to use grammar in third level.

Also English is only one of the options for media.

And re your comment that primary students wouldn't make mistakes like that, well evidently they do in college. Let's not blame the SU for people's poor spelling. Most people in third level English, myself included, make mistakes with grammar, punctuation and spelling. It's one of the biggest issues lecturers have with students.

And do you know why? Because writing for a newspaper is a lot like writing essays in the sense that there are tight deadlines and sometimes people simply make mistakes under pressure of time and can't correct them or don't see them because they're stressed enough about getting it done and dusted.

In an ideal world there would be no mistakes at all, but the pressures of time mean that if you spent all your time making sure every last thing in the paper was perfect you'd get a paper that was way out of date. You couldn't have a regular paper if you obsessed on getting these things perfect.

Even The Times of London makes typos and spelling mistakes, and they have the cream of writers.

You expect too much from a FREE, student produced newspaper.

St_Crispin wrote:

... Or are they allowed to write any drivel at all? Because that would mean that they put feck all work into the publication. This pretty much kills your point about the amount of work they do.

Wow, what a way to generalise. So they just mooch about doing **** all eh?

St_Crispin wrote:

It would also imply that all the executive officers are just playing around at their posts. I mean we can't expect them to work to a certain standard can we? They're volunteers and thereby exempt from it all.

(Why do I have the feeling you have it in for the Union?)

So you expect a former student, who hasn't produced a newspaper before, who is using a program they have limited training for, to be able to produce a paper that meets all of your discerning standards?

And you expect the articles, which are written on a volunteer basis, and have to be because it's a student paper, to be consistently perfect? Get a grip. The paper can only publish the stories submitted to them by the (regrettably few) volunteers.

That's why I keep saying write stories yourself, if you want them to be better. The quality of stories isn't as high as it could be because plenty of people moan if it isn't right, but on the other hand have nothing to offer to improve it. There is a major shortage of contributors on campus. That's not the fault of the SU, who have done a LOT to promote the need for writers.

The fact of the matter is that the interest isn't there. Only a few people who have an interest are submitting stories. Most don't want to volunteer their time because they have 'better things to do'. Yet often they are the loudest critics.

St_Crispin wrote:

I also said that if they can't do it right, they shouldn't do it at all. [snip...] It's a waste of their/our time and money to do it.

In fact the Spoke is funded by advertising and doesn't cost the students anything. If anything, on a good year it makes a small amount for the SU and that pays for materials etc. If you knew anything about how the paper operated, you'd know that.

St_Crispin wrote:

As for saying I should do it... That's just a cop out. I've said I'm not a journalist, or pretending to be one. I also never signed up to do that job. It's not my responsibility, it's theirs. And you cannot remove the blame from them and put it on me. It's no excuse for their ineptitude.

They are far from inept. Failing to produce a paper regularly, or at all, is ineptitude. And the people who do produce the paper volunteered (or were elected in the case of VP Comms/Dev). I might point out that we used to have two newspapers on campus. The other one, TONIC, no longer exists.

Why? Because nobody was submitting stories and there was no matetial to publish. The problems with the Spoke stem from the same problem: not enough interest or committment among the students themselves to submit articles.

St_Crispin wrote:

Does the trinity su newspaper allow people to publish any drivel they want? Do they publish any and all errors that may crop up in articles? Or do they have standards?

TCDSU has far greater resources, a far larger campus population, actually does offer journalism as one of their courses, is based in Dublin... I could go on but let me sum up.

That's an idiotic argument to make. Anyone who starts an argument with the words" In Trinity or in UCD or in DCU... x does y" has already undermined their argument. Trinity is not NUI Maynooth and the two newspapers can't be compared because they operate under different circumstances.

St_Crispin

Slow coach wrote:

Listen pal, you take the low route to criticising the publication of the Spoke. Why not write to the editors? When you criticise their spellings and grammar, make sure your own is top notch. Have a read of the Evening Herald or Irish Times. You can pick up spelling and grammar mistakes in those fully professional publications. Yet an amateur publication is held up to perfection.

For the record, I have no link with the Spoke or its publishers.

In conclusion, write to the editors.

Have you even read the articles I'm talking about?
In case you hadn't noticed I've asked for the email address to write to here. I even looked on the NUIM website.

And I'm not allowed comment on it on a discussion board? That is the most ridiculous thing you've said so far. If I'm talking about the insurgency in Iraq should I make sure to write every comment I've made to all the countries involved?
I'm not expecting articles to the standard found in the Irish times (or even the Evening Herald). But I am expecting primary school literacy levels.

And you've yet to say what you consider their standards should be. Or do you honestly think that they shouldn't have any? Like I said, should all volunteers be excused any and all mistakes they make?

And dude, stop trying to belittle me by attacking my spelling. From the first post on this thread I've admitted I have failings in that area. You're not proving anything. All you're doing is using cheap tricks to deflect away from the matter at hand.