Weekend Prem Match Thread

Necronomicon

I'm hoping for a closer battle at the top next year, assuming United and Liverpool sort out their respective problems. It shouldn't be this easy for Chelsea.

el rabitos

And (granted Mhyre was on top form) they still managed to screw it up.

thats like the liverpool mantra these days. "(insert keepers name) had the game of his life today)"

its not even funny anymore. players come to liverpool and lose their touch or something, i have no idea what it is. during the evans era, houllier era, i thought it was down to lack of pressure put on the players to perform, like as if being at liverpool was an easy ride....but now i have no idea what it is.

maybe rafa needs to lose the plot and develop his own version of the hair-drier treatment? chelsea were doing fairly awful today, and at half time apparantly jose went nuts at them - they come out 2nd half and win the match. liverpool dont seem capable of that.

True, but then any United fan could counter with "if scholes were around.." "if Keane hadn't left..." etc etc. Once we start straying into "if" territory, it's clear that we're desperate

i said it before, and i'll say it again...finishing behind that particular man united team this year is shamefull no matter how many points we were behind them last year. theres only 1 other team in the premiership that can play liverpool off the pitch and its not man u imo

NotWormBoy

Sometimes though, that height works against him. Once or twice today, he found himself in space and with the ball coming to him for a header on goal. And he actually had to duck his head to get any decent contact, and when he did, it was off the top of his head... and so another chance goes a begging.

I've been a defender of Crouch thus far this season, and I still will be for the rest of it. He is a good team player, but needs to find the scoring touch. And while it is really frustrating, I'm still willing to give him some time. Hopefully, he just needs to get a bit of a run going. Yeah, I know, its all been said before.

Cisse annoys the hell out of me though. He can get around players on the right, but then his crossing is dire. And when no one gets onto the end of it, because its too far forward... he looks sulky.He gets a few more chances too though. Its like managers. You don't keep on replacing them with a run (read: season) of bad form. You give them a chance.

Ah, shag it.

Necronomicon

NotWormBoy wrote:

Cisse annoys the hell out of me though. He can get around players on the right, but then his crossing is dire. And when no one gets onto the end of it, because its too far forward... he looks sulky.He gets a few more chances too though. Its like managers. You don't keep on replacing them with a run (read: season) of bad form. You give them a chance.

Ah, shag it.

Cisse was Liverpool's main threat for most of the second half, he had a decent game on the right wing. As I said earlier, he put the ball on a jewel-encrusted plate for Crouch, who should have scored. Later on he had a good run which brought him to the edge of the box and he chipped a great ball around head-height across the six-yard box, which Morientes didn't attack at the far post. If he threw himself at it, I think he would have scored.

While Liverpool absolutely dominated possession, it was never really backs against the wall stuff for Charlton, bar one or two brief periods near the end. They impose themselves better against Benfica.

Villain

Liverpool fail to score again!!! Oh my they really are struggling to score goals lately. It's very simple if you don't score you won't win so having a top class defence, keeper and midfield is not worth anything unless your strikers can finish.

The goal scoring facts speak volumes about Liverpool, i.e. Gerrard is the top scorer by a mile.

Meanwhile Baros scores for Villa again

KdjaCL

irish1 wrote:

Liverpool fail to score again!!! Oh my they really are struggling to score goals lately. It's very simple if you don't score you won't win so having a top class defence, keeper and midfield is not worth anything unless your strikers can finish.
D

Except Chelsea.


kdjac

Villain

KdjaC wrote:

Except Chelsea.


kdjac

Well to be fair Kdjac thats more to do with the system Chelsea, i.e.with one out and out Striker and an attacking Midfielder and two attacking wingers.

Also Crespo has 9 league goals while Drogba has 8, thats more than double the amount of league goals any of the Pool strikers have!!!

Or are my stats wrong??

KdjaCL

irish1 wrote:

Well to be fair Kdjac thats more to do with the system Chelsea, i.e.with one out and out Striker and an attacking Midfielder and two attacking wingers.

Also Crespo has 9 league goals while Drogba has 8, thats more than double the amount of league goals any of the Pool strikers have!!!

Or are my stats wrong??

Lampard has how many? And last season when they won the the league a mid and defender had more goals than one or both of the strikers.

Chelsea only do one thing different thats their mids take their chances and shoot when they have a chance, only Gerrard at pool shoots when he has a chance.

kdjac

Lemlin

Whoever wins between Spurs and Blackburn tomorrow is going to be at a big advantage in the race for fourth. Bolton and West Ham failed to win today, and Wigan are fading fast.

Arsenal won 4-0 but how many times have they done that this season only to lose a week later? They've Liverpool next week too, and that's not going to be an easy game.

Villain

Lampard has 14, but as I said Crespo and Drogba have more than double that of Liverpools strikers. Plus Cole and Robben have 6 and 7 league goals respectively, Garcia is the only other Liverpool midfielder to have more than 2 league goals with 5.

Liverpool need a 20 goal striker if they want to Challenge Chelsea imo.

el rabitos

tbh, i wouldnt be suprised to see rafa keep the strikers he has until january at least, and just get mark gonzalez in and a right winger. he probably figures the strikers just need better service

KdjaCL

irish1 wrote:

Liverpool need a 20 goal striker if they want to Challenge Chelsea imo.

Only Man U and Arse have one of those Chelsea certainly dont, Chelsea manage to defend very well and still scorefrom every position, so its not just a decent striker Pool need. How many goals have pool scored from corners/set pieces? They prolly buy Baros back in the summer :v:



kdjac

el rabitos

a "Bring back Milan Baros" campaign should be started

mike65

I hav'nt seen any of the game yet and I dont think MOTD is going to feature it much but was watching the Fulham/Arsenal game on The Premiership and the movement of the Arse front line was impressive - quick, incisive, varied. Pools forwards are not spliting/stretching defences with clever runs and well angles passes, and you'd think Rafa was smart enough to see there's a problem in that area.

Mike.

eyerer

eyerer wrote:

i dont see arsenal winning at fulham, the forms books certainly dont indicate it
that said i tend to jinx these things

hmmm :rolleyes:
thats unusual. probably a good thing i dont gamble.

unfortunately cant watch MOTD but sounds like the familiar story with liverpool
second place is slipping away

Royale with Cheese

Just watching motd there. My god Gareth Southgate is ugly. The ugliest player in the premiership? He gets my vote.

ButcherOfNog

el rabitos wrote:

maybe rafa needs to lose the plot and develop his own version of the hair-drier treatment? chelsea were doing fairly awful today, and at half time apparantly jose went nuts at them - they come out 2nd half and win the match. liverpool dont seem capable of that.

i seem to remember a certain final of some cup thingy ..........

eyerer

Royale with Cheese wrote:

Just watching motd there. My god Gareth Southgate is ugly. The ugliest player in the premiership? He gets my vote.

time for a poll?

Royale with Cheese

eyerer wrote:

time for a poll?

Yeah I was thinking that but since the days of Martin Keown and Luke Chadwick playing in the Premiership are long gone there aren't too many people to compete with Southgate that I can think of.

Edit: Still watching motd, Robbie Fowler's definitely up there.

el rabitos

i seem to remember a certain final of some cup thingy ..........

the term, "build a bridge and get over it" springs to mind.

that was last year

Yeah I was thinking that but since the days of Martin Keown and Luke Chadwick playing in the Premiership are long gone there aren't too many people to compete with Southgate that I can think of.

robbie fowler tbh

<edit> arjen robben too

PHB

If Liverpool intend to play like Chelsea do, in the continental way, they need to buy 2 wingers and 1 top class striker who can hold up the ball in at a top level.
Liverpools midfield can score as much as Chelsea, but their wing forwards and forwards aren't there, and with their current crop of Kewell/Garcia/Zenden/Morientes/Crouch they have the squad to work off, but they need 3 top class players to make it.
Liverpools squad has been completely reworked, and up front is left, and its going to be costly.

---

Arsenal once again prove they have the class to preform.
If Spurs lose tomorrow, I expect Arsenal definally to finish top 4. If they win, I still think Arsenal can do it, but it'll require a lot more work.

el rabitos

Liverpools squad has been completely reworked, and up front is left, and its going to be costly.

not half as much as its going to cost united to buy a new midfield :v:

wheres me jumpa

el rabitos wrote:

not half as much as its going to cost united to buy a new midfield :v:

Im not sure I enjoy your attitude. Liverpool need a better attack, United need a better midfield. Theres not much in it in fairness. United have had a horrible season. Injuries and departures have forced us to field some of the worst line ups I have seen in a United shirt.

Liverpool on the other hand have been in full flight this season. But yet (an im tempting faith here) if United win their two games in hand they are five points ahead of Liverpool. So im struggling to understand this feeling of superiority here.

I still see Arsenal as a much better team than Liverpool and even United. Watching them yesterday and I think United and Liverpool will be looking over their shoulders on the run in.

At the end of the day both teams are struggling to keep up with Chelsea. And thats the embarrassing thing at times. Both teams are 17/18 points off Chelsea. But yet we are arguing over who is better Liverpool or United.

mike65

Thats cos we both know (read hope) that Chavski are a passing phenomenon! Liverpool are not that short of where they need to be, Gonzales will join in the summer as will Paletta, add one sh1t-hot striker and the team should be about right.

Mike.

Necronomicon

Only just got around to seeing MOTD. The West Brom/Chelsea game was ridiculous at times. Drogba did what he usually does, reminds people what he can do by scoring a very good goal, then reminds me why I hate him. His reaction under Greening's "challenge" was totally uncalled for. Does he have no shame?

eirebhoy

I was working yesterday so missed the Celtic match but have watched it this morning and Roy Keane is as good as he's ever been. People say he lost a lot after his knee injury but I don't think he's lost anything. After his injuries he was just playing in a more conservative role and Ferguson was playing safe but with Celtic he's the box to box Roy Keane of old. He must have had 4 or 5 shots on goal and set up a goal. This is only against Aberdeen so I can imagine what he'll be like against the European teams. He's as fit as ever.

btw - Drogba should be getting abused at every away ground. He must be the worst diver to ever play in the premiership. Most foreign players quit it after a few months in Britain but Drogba is still embarrassing himself.

And another thing. Damien Duff gets man of the match with Ireland on Wednesday (4th motm in a row for friendlies). He goes back to England and he forgets how to take on his man. "Not at his best" is what most Chelsea fans would use to describe yesterday's performance (and the last 20 in a Chelsea shirt).

redspider

Another poor return for Liverpool in a game where they totally dominated. In league terms, its games like these and the 1-0's which show that Liverpool are just not good enough to finish teams off and get all 3 pts. Charlton had an opportunity or two to nick it. And its behind what we should be aiming for, 2-0 wins or more.

In terms of the positives from yesterday, Kromkamp had a good game and would be an ideal back-up for Finnan. However, as I said when he was signed, we have holes in the starting-11 in other positions of the pitch, right-side attacking midfielder and up-front.

It was an unusual selection, with Cisse playing wide right. Fowler tried and came close on a couple of occasions. The offside "goal" at the end was touch and go and could have gone either way but Liverpool have only themselves to blame for dropping the 3 pts. One positive was that the forwards were mixing it up and quite mobile, interchanging positions, etc. Fowler went right at times, Cisse in the middle, even Kewell was to be seen popping up on the right. Kromkamp provided width and overlap and made some good crosses. Crouch though mssed yet another sitter.

Overall though, the result doesnt matter too much in the general scheme of things, as everyone probably has an eye on Wed, which is now the biggest game of the season so far for Liverpool. We need to score and that will be hard as that is the area where we have the most difficulty. Its plainly evident to see from our league scoring record for example, which reads 33 goals in 28 games - thats barely more than 1 goal a game!


There is one issue which I'd like to discuss, and thats Stevie Gerrard. As we all know he is a great footballer, one of the best Liverpool have. He is fast a quick thinker, makes sensible passes and is a live spark in the team. However, I think he now needs to think about his wider game. He needs to be able not to play where he delivers quick incisive passes, makes runs and expects good passes back. As by-and-large, that doesnt happen. In effect, he is too good for the Liverpool team. None of Morientes, Crouch and Fowler can keep up with him. Cisse can, but his passing is poor quality.

I think what Gerrard needs to do is slightly adapt his play to work with the material that he has. ie: not expect the good pass coming back, but try and make things easier.

Do people know what I am getting at? Its sort of hard to explain, but Gerrard is a key to Liverpool getting through the next big barriers. We also need him to be getting in and around the box in better positions and trying more shots that are closer to the target. He does that, but as the forwards just aint going to do it, he will have to. Perhaps more low shots will allow the likes of Fowler or a Cisse to react, etc.

We thought we had things bad up-front with Owen/Heskey under Houllier. Its far worse now.

el rabitos wrote:

starting to wonder if rafa has too much invested in the teams defence, or is it simply a matter of the strikers being useless? over the hill (mori and fowler) underskilled in front of goal (cisse and crouch)

I agree that he has thought about defence too much and made poor choices in forwards up-front, decisions which are now coming home to roost.

redspider

redspider

eirebhoy wrote:

Roy Keane is as good as he's ever been. People say he lost a lot after his knee injury but I don't think he's lost anything. After his injuries he was just playing in a more conservative role and Ferguson was playing safe but with Celtic he's the box to box Roy Keane of old. He must have had 4 or 5 shots on goal and set up a goal. This is only against Aberdeen so I can imagine what he'll be like against the European teams. He's as fit as ever.

And another thing. Damien Duff gets man of the match with Ireland on Wednesday (4th motm in a row for friendlies). He goes back to England and he forgets how to take on his man. "Not at his best" is what most Chelsea fans would use to describe yesterday's performance (and the last 20 in a Chelsea shirt).

Good to hear that Roy is doing the bizz for Celtic. When is their next live game on Setanta, I'll try and catch him then?

Damien is under pressure this year at Chelsea. Robben is playing very well, and S Wright-Phillips is a new addition who has done ok when on. Also, Joe Cole has upped his game, so there is a lot more pressure for places in Chelsea than there are in the Ireland eleven. When Damien plays for Ireland he is probably the first name on the team sheet. He is in effect a hero. At Chelsea, he is not the no.1 choice on the teamsheet, and the pressure for his place is having a negative effect on his performances.

redspider

mike65

ppl are sooooooo quick to forget the improvement on last season (58 points) and now. I think I know what you mean about Gerrard Red Spider, the players ahead of him are to darned slow to pick up on his intentions, as I said above the movement shown by Arsenal yesterday is what the team should be looking to emmulate, trying to do that at a slower pace would'nt work though.

Mike.

redspider

wheres me jumpa wrote:

I still see Arsenal as a much better team than Liverpool and even United. Watching them yesterday and I think United and Liverpool will be looking over their shoulders on the run in.

The problem with Arsenal is that they are inconsistent, and at times they are a fair weather team. If they have the beating of the opposition in terms of tactics, approach, being up for it, etc, then they can easily win 4-0, especially if the Henry approach unlocks the other defence. But if they come up against a defence/midfield which can keep Henry under wraps, they struggle. Henry is the key to Arsenal and also the key to holding/beating them. They really are Henry FC.

Dont be fooled by the silky displays of Henry & co against inferior defences (such as Real Madrid) and teams. At times it is great to watch, I like it, but other aspects of the nitty grittiness of football is where Arsenal fade, and this year at least they are worse than Man U, not only in the league but also in head-to-heads.

I would be very surprised if they got 2nd in the league. I can see them getting 4th of course, as Spurs and the others will splutter as well, Bolton included. Its for Arsenal to lose it really and it is possible that they will, just like Liverpool failed to do so last year against a very poor Everton.

As for the Liverpool/United "debate" ... well .... lets just say that this season both teams are close ;-)

redspider

redspider

eyerer wrote:

sounds like the familiar story with liverpool second place is slipping away

This is not aimed at you in particular eyerer, but one thing I think all Liverpool fans and Man U fans should realise is this:- whether a team finishes 2nd, 3rd or 4th is more or less meaningless. It is meaningless in terms of money as all teams qualify for the CL, and once you are in that, if you are anyway half decent you will get through to the latter rounds even from 4th spot.

Some may use the fact Man U finishes 2nd and ahead of Liverpool in 3rd, or vice versa if that should happen. But these discussions are pointless and are at the kindergarden level of thinking. The facts of the matter (footballing wise, financially, etc) is that 2nd and 3rd are effectively <i>the same</i>, and will be even more the same if both teams are withink +/- 6 pts of each other.

redspider

Necronomicon

redspider wrote:

Its for Arsenal to lose it really and it is possible that they will, just like Liverpool failed to do so last year against a very poor Everton.

I think it's Spurs' to lose, as they are in 4th, and Arsenal's to gain. I also think it's a bit harsh to call Everton 'very poor' as they finished 4th on merrit, and proved to be better than Liverpool over the course of the season.

redspider

mike65 wrote:

I think I know what you mean about Gerrard Red Spider, the players ahead of him are to darned slow to pick up on his intentions, as I said above the movement shown by Arsenal yesterday is what the team should be looking to emmulate, trying to do that at a slower pace would'nt work though.

I agree that Arsenal are a joy to watch when their passing game works for them, and with their runs, etc, and fast pace, they can (at times) slice defences apart.

I agree, Liverpool just dont have the players to do that. None of Crouch, Morientes and Fowler are pacey. Thats where Gerrard needs to adapt his game slightly. These players are slow to react physically and are also slower in thought mentally. Gerrard is doing all the right things, but he just doesnt have the material to work with. There will be more 'product' if he, and the likes of Riise, etc, can adjust their game slightly. Maybe he needs to work more with Alonso, who is able to work with him but is just too far back.

Of course such changes are not down to Gerrard alone to decide, it needs to be coached into the team, tactically. Garcia has the reaction speed of thought in the latter 3rd of the field, but his deficiencies lie in other matters, but he at least can keep uo with the ideas of Stevie.

Wed is a big game for Liverpool. Perhaps we need a bit of luck, a goal that breaks the deadlock early on (either way) could be what the game needs to ignite the spark.

redspider

wheres me jumpa

Necromomicon wrote:

I think it's Spurs' to lose, as they are in 4th, and Arsenal's to gain. I also think it's a bit harsh to call Everton 'very poor' as they finished 4th on merrit, and proved to be better than Liverpool over the course of the season.

Yeah agree there. A league table never lies. While I agree that finishing 3rd/2nd isnt much different, all of Liverpool, United, Arsenal would much prefer to finish 2nd. You only have to look back at the United v Liverpool match threads to see the desire to finish 2nd.

mike65

Back on topic Man City 2-1 Sunderland

Mike.

Lemlin

Pearce will be happy to see Samaras get two, he's his first big signing in terms of outlay, 7 million I think he was.

Necronomicon

Where did he come from actually? For 7 million he must have a bit of a reputation. He scored mid-week for Greece as well.

Necronomicon

Downright muppetry from Gary Breen! He was on a yellow card and he stopped David James from throwing the ball out after catching from a corner, with a two-handed save! Sunderland down to 10.

wheres me jumpa

Dont know what the hell he was playing at.

zAbbo

Spurs 1 - Blackburn 0

Robbie Keane with a gem of individual brilliance.

mike65

True but the ball should have been Blackburns throw-in.

Mike.

wheres me jumpa

mike65 wrote:

True but the ball should have been Blackburns throw-in.

Mike.

Theres always one! :rolleyes:

Ah no it was a Blackburn throw, very bad decision from all of one yard by the linesman. Great stuff from Keane. Im not his biggest fan but Im happy to see him having a great week.

fade2black

Marseille's B team is doing ok against PSG

wheres me jumpa

fade2black wrote:

Marseille's B team is doing ok against PSG

Im guessing theres a lot of money on PSG around Europe?!

fade2black

One can only imagine so. Pighead flagged it up yesterday. Stuck them in an acumm with Celtic, Madrid, Barca, Man City and Spurs

sprinkles

finish 2nd, enjoy a longer break, less hassled pre season in which you can head to Aisa/America etc..

Finish 3rd/4th, enjoy a nice early return to chamionsleague action as you face the qualifying rounds

tbh I know there's no difference in terms of money etc but any manager in the top 4 would prefer not to have to go through the qualifiers.

zAbbo

Another one from Robbie, Spurs 2 up.

Free kick saved by Friedel but he parrys it out to keane, hits his hand, and he taps it in.

zAbbo

2-1 Flo Po, and the first liverpool striker to score this year

mike65

Keane a second and a quick reply for Pongolle

Mike.

KdjaCL

zabbo wrote:

2-1 Flo Po, and the first liverpool striker to score this year

Except Crouch vs Man Utd.


Good week for Keane


kdjac