SAGNO's

neilled

At a time when two Irish women blew away international rivals hold the Chair of WAGGGS (Elspeth Henderson) and the Vice Chair of WOSM (Therese Bermingham and who will be chair in the second part of her term) and both are on the WOSM WAGGGS consultative committee (this body oversees relations between our two great families) cooperation within Irish Scouting and Irish Guiding is at an all time low. Well i question if it ever existed but........

Two of our most able ladies are directing the future of Scouting and Guiding at an international level yet we do next to no talking (or anything else for that matter) at home!

What way do people feel we should be heading. Would forming a SAGNO - a Scout and Guide National Organisation like they have in Sweden, Demmark, Finland and Holland to namea few be a good idea? Or a committee for furthering links?

Do people fear for one or other tradition in the event of closer cooperation?

Is there a desire for guides to take part in Scouting events - i'm thinking of Senior Branch in particular and the likes of the explorer belt.

Your thoughts please, I'm curious to know.

Ps I am aware of huge differences in programme that exist throughout both movements. I know of sea scouts who haven't been on the water for two years and i know girl guides who in all honesty, i believe should be in Scouts! They'd put the lads to shame and are keen to do the explorer belt. I know they're well able for it!

Ragazza

eh? we do do the belt??

But yes, I think its long over due.
There is lots of interaction between scouting and IGG at a unit level, this of courst depends on leaders. we travel every two years with a unit from Limerick. Kids love it. We hook up with local units too from time to time.
Having said that, When I lived in waterford any attempt I made to make friendly motions towards scouts I had all doors slamed in my face. It all depends on the history too.

neilled

Up until a few years ago members of IGG were able to take part in the explorer belt with SAI. This arrangement ended after what i believe was a falling out of sorts and the option was withdrawn.

I would be on for the idea of reopening it to members of CGI and IGG, - this year the explorer belt seems to be short on teams. If you want to know what it is (for all the readers!) see www.explorerbelt.com

The amount of "politicing" that takes place in scouting and guiding is unreal, there are too many minicorporals in both movements for the sake of their own egos. Well perhaps thats a bit harsh but......

Ragazza, what happened in waterford sounds quite unusual, Scouts normally never resist the attempts of a young guide to become friendly with them;)

Both organisations have certain strenghts and weaknesses and could do with helping each other to overcome them.

Ragazza

I know, I was a bit miffed at the response to be honest, never encountered it anywhere else! Usually Scout groups are clambering for female leaders to even up the numbers, or at least some entertainment for their scouts for the evening!!

I have been out of the senior branch loop for a while, I didn't realist we didnt do the belt anymore. What happened? Ventact CGI type scenario?:eek:

neilled

I believe there was some within IGG had objections to the way SAI were running the belt at the time and tried to run one themselves. They tried and failed. The problem was the belt is controlled from gilwell (UK scout headquarters) and guides can only take part at the invite of a scout association. What the differences where I'm not too sure nor am do i have a clue as to how they came about. I know of a few people who have might know though. There was never any belt link between CSI and CGI, so with all that in consideration, whenever scouting ireland was formed niether association had a policy of inviting guides on the belt.

This year the number of teams going on the belt is quite low, perhaps its time to revisit the policy but i would have to be with both guide associations. This would obviously involve there being enough interest withing irish guiding - i have been told in the past not to raise the issue, on the basis that scouts and guides are different for a reason!!! That was from a member of IGG!

Ragazza

I remember now why I am out of the senior branch loop, you get pissed off with the politics of it all.:rolleyes:

Are there many events that could be merged? (Like the belt used to be)

I can't think of that many IGG events that the scouts would be interested in. You lot tend to do things on a much larger scale than us. (of course there is always just the appeal of girls)

Agent Smith

The Problem,(an advantage in some ways) is That many members of The IGG are leaving to Join Scouts.

My troop, for example, recently took in a number of ex- girl-guides. The Reason being " the guides just dont do much."


My sister Complained of This When She was a Guide Leader 2-3 years ago.


It seems Like a Good Idea, Haveing Never been to A Guides Meeting, i'm not sure what goes on ( i've a Vague Idea) but the exchanging of Ideas could Not hurt in any ways.

neilled

Ragazza wrote:

I remember now why I am out of the senior branch loop, you get pissed off with the politics of it all.:rolleyes:

Are there many events that could be merged? (Like the belt used to be)

I can't think of that many IGG events that the scouts would be interested in. You lot tend to do things on a much larger scale than us. (of course there is always just the appeal of girls)

Well the belt was an "invite" rather than jointly organised but there certainly could do with more interation particularly at senior branch/venturing level. UK networks consist of both young guide and scout leaders.

Ragazza

I was a venture and a guide leader at the same time. That is quite common too. I know quite a few young leaders that are in both Scouts and Guides. (Hearts are Guides tho:D )
Senior branch is growing stronger now but when I was of age to be at that kind of thing there was nothing in my region so I hooked up with the ventures for the weekend hiking and climbing, they had the gear and the resorces. Lots of fun:D . Their cubs didn't have a female leader so I used to help them out with that.

Give and take...worked well till I fecked off to collage.

neilled

Ragazza wrote:

I was a venture and a guide leader at the same time. That is quite common too. I know quite a few young leaders that are in both Scouts and Guides. (Hearts are Guides tho:D )

Well that would figure, seeing that you can't be a male guide:D

Ragazza

I will bring up the sagno thing at the next appropriate venue, we have places where such things are discussed, (and I can occasionally blag my way into them, I'm on a committee), and find out why we dont have one, there must be a reason.

I wonder is it just 'we are different'?

Well, thats fine, we dont want to be the same we just want to ocassionally do stuff together cause scouts have cooler gear.
oops I mean in the spirit of cooperation and friendship...

neilled

Well i certainly feel that a closer cooperation may be beneficial! The SAGNO thing probably takes it too far for many in guides and scouts as a SAGNO is a combined guide and scout association, although female only groups can exist within. Normally it works with the males registered as WOSM and the females as WAGGGS.

The nordic countries are a good example of how they work!

Ragazza

Yes I agree, a total merge would never happen. I think Guiding would just get lost in the much larger, and it must be said tougher, scouting movement.

I would like to do a leader exchange, with one patrol, for a few weeks, publish the resulting findings in our trefoil news (monthly magazine).

A pilot scheme, to better understand each other. Just to see.

A more structured cooperation however, could benefit everyone. I think this could be done throughout all the branches, though not just the most hormonal ones.