Wigan vs. Man United

gracehopper

Wigan were desperately unlucky last night. They deserve some credit for their attitude.

Roberts and Camera are such a handful up front and constantly gave Rio a problem. Wigan have that knack of being able to knock the ball into the corners for their strikers who can create chances or hold the ball up. That’s the first time I’ve ever seen Kavanagh play well and I suppose that says a lot about United's midfield. The 2 centre backs Scharner and De Zeuw are excellent pro’s and were very solid for long periods of the game. I dont rate McCulloch or Baines and even in Wigan’s battling performance last night they looked out of their depth

Wes Brown was again class and if he maintains his fitness and form he’ll definitely be in the final England squad for the WC. Giggs and park were non existent but o Shea played quite well and made a couple of important tackles and interceptions early on. He doesn’t offer anything going forward though.
Rooney needs a rest. He’s been played into the ground this year and he’s still only a young lad. I think we could leave him out for a couple of games and give Rossi a run. Ronaldo got hacked to pieces last night so I was delighted when he got his goal. DeZeuw fouled him in the first few minutes of the game but if that foul had occurred later in the game he would have been sent off.
RVN made a difference when he came on, he’s far more difficult to mark than Saha and he succeeded in stretching Wigan’s tiring defence. A good move from Ferguson but he should have really started the game. Chimbonda was desperately unlucky with the OG and Wigan deserved at least a point from last night.

United are really struggling to take hold of games and it’s quite frustrating to watch as there’s no one in the middle that the ball goes through. Silvestre and Neville never have an option to pass it inside and therefore look crap because they either have to knock it back to Ferdinand or hoof it forward. We badly need someone who’s not afraid to get on the ball and boss a game. Despite United’s weaknesses we’re still 2 points ahead of Liverpool with a game in hand. We have a cushion now and there’s no excuse complacency between now and the end of May.

Thanx 4 The Fish

fade2black wrote:

tbqh eh? oooh.

Quit stirring fade. There is no need for it thread was going along quite nicely until your involvement in it.

PHB

Game was interesting, nice to see us get the last grasp winner. Wigan scored too early, and United I felt were always gona win. Wigan lack a quality finisher up front imo.

What bugged the hell out of me in this game was the fouls on Ronaldo. I counted that he was fouled about 10 times(that were given), which is just nuts. 3 of them were given yellows. The first tackle on him was an atrocious tackle and it could have easily been a red card.
Then he was fouled again and again and again and again, and the ref did not give enough protection at all, and it is incredibly annoying.
That is Ronaldo's fifth top quality game in a row, scoring in each of them, scoring 5, getting one assist, and starting up 3 moves that lead to goals. It's great to see.

gracehopper

PHB wrote:

That is Ronaldo's fifth top quality game in a row, scoring in each of them, scoring 5, getting one assist, and starting up 3 moves that lead to goals. It's great to see.

Yeah hopefully its the start of his transition from boy to man. He's playing some great stuff at the moment. Tackle after tackle he got up and played on. He complained a couple of times but in most cases last night he had a right to. Lets hope he continues the form. He could worthy of the no. 7 shirt yet!

cournioni

BolBill wrote:

oh how important it is to finish ahead of the Champions of Europe it must be

Who? Liverpool?! He must have been hopping about for some time then so... :cool:

kaimera

PHB wrote:

That is Ronaldo's fifth top quality game in a row, scoring in each of them, scoring 5, getting one assist, and starting up 3 moves that lead to goals.

fifth?
Don't think so tbh. He was crap in the FA Cup 3 games ago...:)

Gegerty

All I'll say is champions do not scrap wins against the likes of Wigan. no disrespect to Wigan, I think they're a breath of fresh air. Them and West Ham. But lets face facts they're new to the premiership. United fans are letting their standards drop saying that was a good performance.

Our obvious problem is midfield. The Lille duo Mathieu Bodmer and Jean Makoun doesn't inspire me with great confidence (Click). If Chelsea are offering Ballack £120K then united should match it and also guarantee him a spot in every game (kinda goes without saying) as opposed to Frank Lampards substitute. They can sell Ferdinand and pay him his wages

PHB

All I'll say is champions do not scrap wins against the likes of Wigan. no disrespect to Wigan, I think they're a breath of fresh air. Them and West Ham. But lets face facts they're new to the premiership. United fans are letting their standards drop saying that was a good performance.

Have you watched CHelsea this year? Infact do you remember the first game? Crespo 93rd minute? Seriously

BaZmO*

Gegerty wrote:

All I'll say is champions do not scrap wins against the likes of Wigan.

What?

I refer you to Wigan's first game in the PL this year.

-edit- Got there before me PHB.

Big Nelly

Gegerty wrote:

All I'll say is champions do not scrap wins against the likes of Wigan. no disrespect to Wigan, I think they're a breath of fresh air. Them and West Ham. But lets face facts they're new to the premiership. United fans are letting their standards drop saying that was a good performance.

Our obvious problem is midfield. The Lille duo Mathieu Bodmer and Jean Makoun doesn't inspire me with great confidence (Click). If Chelsea are offering Ballack £120K then united should match it and also guarantee him a spot in every game (kinda goes without saying) as opposed to Frank Lampards substitute. They can sell Ferdinand and pay him his wages

And the gift for worst post of the days goes to.........gegerty

Gegerty

Big Nelly wrote:

And the gift for worst post of the days goes to.........gegerty

Thanks what do I win? Knob.

gracehopper

Gegerty wrote:

All I'll say is champions do not scrap wins against the likes of Wigan

chelsea are the champs are they not?. They scrapped a 1-0 against wigan on the first day of the season with a fully fit team of stars. So to did an in form liverpool a couple of weeks ago. Wigan are not to be underestimated. They have a serious work rate and a great manager. The backbone of the team is very good and Ferguson said that it was Uniteds toughest away game all year. Wigan, Bolton, Blackburn and Chelsea are the toughest away games in the league

Gegerty

gracehopper wrote:

Ferguson said that it was Uniteds toughest away game all year. Wigan, Bolton, Blackburn and Chelsea are the toughest away games in the league

You can't take what the managers say after the match too seriously. Ferguson will always praise the opposition no matter what. Granted, Wigan are doing well and they're great to watch too. They're not one of the toughest away games though. West Brom beat them 0-1. Blackburn beat them 0-3. Leeds drew with them 1-1. Ferguson did a good job at deflecting the critiscism. He said he would've been happy with 1-1. 1-1 with Wigan when you're in a close battle for 2nd place? I don't think so.

PHB

Gegerty, this is a distinction here between mocking the poster and mocking the post, i suggest if you feel the need to do one, do the latter, it'll just get you into less trouble.

I would have taken 1-1 after they scored obviously, but considering how easily we ripped them apart at Cardiff, I'd have expected the win before the game.

United didn't play very well, went a goal behind, Ruud came on, changed the game, and we won.
That's what you need to do to win championships and its about time United started doing it.
Breaking the 0-0 is always important, and we've solved that this year, with very few draws, but coming back from behind is what we havn't done, and this is a start.

Big Nelly

Gegerty wrote:

And your comment wasn't a personal insult? I know the charter and I'll dish back any insults thrown at me ok? How about some constructive criticism like the other posters? "Prize for the worst post", get stuffed.

Where was the personal insult? do you know the meaning of the words "personal insult"? because from your post above you havent a clue. Someone had already pointed out what was wrong with your post, I didnt think I needed the post the exact same comments, its called banter! sorry if that is lost on you but you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about something so by all means continue with useless posts and then attack everyone when they point out how stupid the post was.

Again from your comments above do you remember or have you seen the Chelsea game? was a very flukey win for Chelsea and Wigan deserved a draw then, quoting a load of results from other clubs wont cover this up. If Wigan are so brutal why are they in the top half of the PL? do you think Man Utd and everyone at the top have a God given right to beat every other team in the league becasue they are at the top? I dont think so. Every team on there day can beat the other team, this doesnt mean Utd are **** becasue they had a hard game against Wigan. Also after Wigan losing the Carling Cup Final there was bound to be a back lash from Wigan

BaZmO*

So going back to your original comment of...

Gegerty wrote:

All I'll say is champions do not scrap wins against the likes of Wigan

Do you still stand by that?

Gegerty

Big Nelly wrote:

Where was the personal insult? do you know the meaning of the words "personal insult"? because from your post above you havent a clue. Someone had already pointed out what was wrong with your post, I didnt think I needed the post the exact same comments, its called banter! sorry if that is lost on you but you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about something so by all means continue with useless posts and then attack everyone when they point out how stupid the post was.

Again from your comments above do you remember or have you seen the Chelsea game? was a very flukey win for Chelsea and Wigan deserved a draw then, quoting a load of results from other clubs wont cover this up. If Wigan are so brutal why are they in the top half of the PL? do you think Man Utd and everyone at the top have a God given right to beat every other team in the league becasue they are at the top? I dont think so. Every team on there day can beat the other team, this doesnt mean Utd are **** becasue they had a hard game against Wigan. Also after Wigan losing the Carling Cup Final there was bound to be a back lash from Wigan

Thanks thats more like it. I can take criticism as much as anyone else. I can't stand those "prize for worst post" comments. so I apologise if i insulted you and just to point out I know what a personal insult is and you insulted me whether you realise it or not.

Point taken on the Chelsea game. I've no argument there. United were seriously lacking once again and they were lucky to get the win. I still don't think Wigan can be considered a tough away game. Like all teams you can have a tough time on the day. This one was tough because Wigan were out for revenge, not because they're considered a tough away game.

gracehopper

Gegerty wrote:

He said he would've been happy with 1-1. 1-1 with Wigan when you're in a close battle for 2nd place? I don't think so.

I agree. i wouldnt have settled for 1-1 before the game and i dont think Fergie would have either but considering wigans effort last night it was plain to see Wigan more than deserved the draw.

Are you suggesting Fergie is becoming a bit complacent in settling for 1-1 with Wigan? Or do you think he said that in admiration for Wigans effort?

Big Nelly

Gegerty wrote:

Thanks thats more like it. I can take criticism as much as anyone else. I can't stand those "prize for worst post" comments. so I apologise if i insulted you and just to point out I know what a personal insult is and you insulted me whether you realise it or not.

Still cant see where I insulted you but I couldnt be bothered continuing the arguement!

Gegerty wrote:

Point taken on the Chelsea game. I've no argument there. United were seriously lacking once again and they were lucky to get the win. I still don't think Wigan can be considered a tough away game. Like all teams you can have a tough time on the day. This one was tough because Wigan were out for revenge, not because they're considered a tough away game.

Still not getting your point, Wigan are in the top half of the PL and have shown against a number of the so called "big" teams they are a handful and can cause more than a few upsets, so why do you think that Wigan are not a tough team to play? Wigan didnt get into the top half of PL by playing terrible football or being a push over. Again do you think Utd have a God given right to beat every team in the PL except the top 2-3?

dirkey_wynne

Gegerty wrote:

All I'll say is champions do not scrap wins against the likes of Wigan.

I think you'll find you're wrong. Chelsea scored a last minute goal against them at the start of the season. Chelsea were champions last season, and will be champions again this season. So yes, you're wrong.

county

dirkey_wynne wrote:

I think you'll find you're wrong. Chelsea scored a last minute goal against them at the start of the season. Chelsea were champions last season, and will be champions again this season. So yes, you're wrong.

i think he`s got the message:rolleyes:

Gegerty

gracehopper wrote:

Are you suggesting Fergie is becoming a bit complacent in settling for 1-1 with Wigan? Or do you think he said that in admiration for Wigans effort?

No I don't think he would have settled for 1-1. I think he would've been fuming. 2nd place is by no means cetain. We have Tottenham away, Chelsea away and Arsenal at home (I think?) I think he was just praising Wigan by saying 1-1 would've been good. He could hardly say anything else though, we didn't deserve to win.

dirkey_wynne

county wrote:

i think he`s got the message:rolleyes:

No need for rolleyes really county. Sometimes (it's rare) but a post is so so so wrong that I just have to respond instantly, before I read to the end of the thread to see if others have pointed it out.

Big Nelly

Gegerty wrote:

No I don't think he would have settled for 1-1. I think he would've been fuming. 2nd place is by no means cetain. We have Tottenham away, Chelsea away and Arsenal at home (I think?) I think he was just praising Wigan by saying 1-1 would've been good. He could hardly say anything else though, we didn't deserve to win.

Fuming at 1-1...your having a laugh, 2 dodgy goals, only had one shot on target for the full game. His team was being over run for the full game, I think you would find the Fergie would have been grateful for a 1-1 draw because his team didnt deserve it. Did you watch them all jumping around when the OG went in, this is called relief. Wigan are a good team and are capable of causing an upset for any team in the PL, even the Mighty Chelsea!

Im reading back on you post and it is confusing me more, what excactly is your arguement?

Gegerty

Big Nelly wrote:

Still cant see where I insulted you but I couldnt be bothered continuing the arguement!

"Gift for worst post of the day" That is where you insulted me I can't make it any clearer so lets agree to disagree.

Big Nelly wrote:

Again do you think Utd have a God given right to beat every team in the PL except the top 2-3?

United should be able to beat Wigan home and away. It's not their god given right its just the standards they have lived up to for the past 15 years or so (well up until 2003 it was). Ferguson has said himself, we must not let our standards slip. What I'm saying is they should strive to win these games, its not their god given right and it won't always be easy.

Big Nelly

Gegerty wrote:

United should be able to beat Wigan home and away. It's not their god given right its just the standards they have lived up to for the past 15 years or so (well up until 2003 it was). Ferguson has said himself, we must not let our standards slip. What I'm saying is they should strive to win these games, its not their god given right and it won't always be easy.

Again why should Utd beat Wigan home and away? Wigan are a decent team and in the top half of the PL, got to a cup final etc. Again why do you think that Utd should beat every team in the league? even in the glory days they always had a slip up or 2, 5-0 against Chelsea when Chelsea where no world beaters, your not actually making an arguement, you said that Man Utd should win no problem and that Champions wouldn't have a problem beating them, when it was pointed out how lucky Chelsea where you seem to have changed your arguement but not sure what it is.

Are you saying that Utd should win every game in the season? or that they should beat every team outside the top 3? or exactly what are you saying?

Gegerty

Big Nelly wrote:

Fuming at 1-1...your having a laugh, 2 dodgy goals, only had one shot on target for the full game. His team was being over run for the full game

Exactly

Big Nelly wrote:

Im reading back on you post and it is confusing me more, what excactly is your arguement?

What you just said above. And also that that is not something united fans should be considering a good game or something that we should be settling for. I've given Wigan praise where praise is due if you read my posts properly and don't just pick what you want to see and ignore the rest.

dirkey_wynne

Gegerty wrote:

"Gift for worst post of the day" That is where you insulted me I can't make it any clearer so lets agree to disagree.




United should be able to beat Wigan home and away. It's not their god given right its just the standards they have lived up to for the past 15 years or so (well up until 2003 it was). Ferguson has said himself, we must not let our standards slip. What I'm saying is they should strive to win these games, its not their god given right and it won't always be easy.

Utd should be able to, and they did. They beat them 4-0 home, 2-1 away and 4-0 neutral. Yes, they needed luck last night, but I for one thought it wasn't going to be easy last night. Wigan are a good side, and they have proven that over the course of the season. They've given some very good sides a run for their money, both at home and away. Utd were very lucky last night, yes. They didn't deserve to win, I'd go so far as to say they deserved to lose. But teams need luck at times. Chelsea have won games they didn't deserve to - even against Wigan. And other games too. Liverpool have won games they didn't deserve to.

Surely that's the mark of champions though? Scraping out results when not playing well???

Gegerty

Big Nelly wrote:

Are you saying that Utd should win every game in the season? or that they should beat every team outside the top 3?

If they want to catch up with Chelsea (not this season obviously but in years to come) then yes they should be aiming to beat 10th place holders home and away.

The Muppet

Gegerty wrote:

United should be able to beat Wigan home and away. It's not their god given right its just the standards they have lived up to for the past 15 years or so (well up until 2003 it was). Ferguson has said himself, we must not let our standards slip. What I'm saying is they should strive to win these games, its not their god given right and it won't always be easy.

Forgone conclusions may apply In CM2005 but in real life 11 v 11 can throw up any result on any given day. United won the game 2 1 and so lived up to the standards they have set themselves or should we expect united to win every game 4 0 .

BTW did you watch the game last night?

Big Nelly

Gegerty wrote:

If they want to catch up with Chelsea then yes they should be aiming to beat 10th place holders home and away.

They did:D

Gegerty

dirkey_wynne wrote:

Surely that's the mark of champions though? Scraping out results when not playing well???

You know you're absolutely right.

Yes I saw the match and I don't think united played well. I don't think they deserved to win and I don't think it's right to settle for 1-1. Obviously in hindsight 1-1 would have been a fair result but no I don't think coming into a game with Wigan should we be thinking 1-1 will be a good result. Thats all I've to say.

Big Nelly

Gegerty wrote:

You know you're absolutely right.

Yes I saw the match and I don't think united played well. I don't think they deserved to win and I don't think it's right to settle for 1-1. Obviously in hindsight 1-1 was a fair result but no I don't think coming into a game with Wigan should we be thinking 1-1 will be a good result. Thats all I've to say.

Nobody before the game said they would settle for a draw, Fergie said AFTER the game he would have settled for a draw, this was because Wigan where the better team on the night, nobody could have perdicted this before the game. I am 100% sure Fergie didnt send out his team to draw and why would you think he would do this? is it just me or are you getting more and more confused?

Thanx 4 The Fish

Gegerty banned for a week

astrofool

It's funny how one week people will complain that a league isn't strong enough and the top teams beat the bottom teams too easily, then the next week after one of them draw or lose, it's all about how the top teams should thrash the bottom teams easily.

Thats the way the SPL has been (not as bad now however), and smaller countries usually have one team that dominates, the big leagues however always have the top teams scaping wins, even barcalona scrape wins

Big Nelly

astrofool wrote:

even barcalona scrape wins

I heard once, think it was an old wives tale but Barca lost to a team outside the top three, it was shocking to think about it

eirebhoy

gracehopper wrote:

That’s the first time I’ve ever seen Kavanagh play well and I suppose that says a lot about United's midfield.

Aye... Kavanagh takes over in midfield when on form. He was going through a bad patch in the last few weeks but hopefully he's back to his best. He didn't play in the Carling cup final and Wigan were destroyed. He didn't play well in Cyprus and Ireland were destroyed.

smemon

eirebhoy wrote:

He didn't play in the Carling cup final and Wigan were destroyed.

indeed he did play and was substituted about 20mins from the end. he was over-awed by the experience and couldnt hack it at that sort of level.

he's a leader on a wet monday night in wigan, but he's not a cup final leader.