Vote Now, Vote No!!!

Dunners

The Voting has commenced.

I beg all good and decent people (and other DIT students) to listen to their conscience and vote now, vote no!!!

It's a sad and quite frankly crap situation where you only have one candidate for each job so reject them with a no vote. Don't be apathetic and fail to vote, such things are fool hardy and disrespect the dozens of people who have spent decades 'studying' in DIT and earning their right not to vote.

A no vote will force the nominations to be reopened and allow us to place forth candidiates who will have a battle of wills on numerous contentious issues for your vote.

So we at the vote now, vote no campaign office emplore you all to show your disgust at one-horse race elections by voting now, voting no!!!

projectmayhem

done and done.

Ciaran500

Dunners wrote:

The Voting has commenced.

I beg all good and decent people (and other DIT students) to listen to their conscience and vote now, vote no!!!

It's a sad and quite frankly crap situation where you only have one candidate for each job so reject them with a no vote. Don't be apathetic and fail to vote, such things are fool hardy and disrespect the dozens of people who have spent decades 'studying' in DIT and earning their right not to vote.

A no vote will force the nominations to be reopened and allow us to place forth candidiates who will have a battle of wills on numerous contentious issues for your vote.

So we at the vote now, vote no campaign office emplore you all to show your disgust at one-horse race elections by voting now, voting no!!!

You make it sound like these elections are really important and the current (and only noms) are doing a horrible job. People were running against Bob but dropped out, I can't see anyone succesfully going up against him if noms are reopened.

shoutman

is there voting on friday

conical

Dunners wrote:

The Voting has commenced.
...A no vote will force the nominations to be reopened and allow us to place forth candidiates who will have a battle of wills on numerous contentious issues for your vote...

The reason there are so few candidates is because no-one else applied.

I'm sure the free-thinking students of DIT will recognise that the people who have gone to the trouble of getting nominated, are people who can forward-plan and get things done.

Why would they want to re-open nominations to candidates who can't even get their applications together, or (more likely) only stumbled across the idea on seeing other peoples election posters???

-C

Ciaran500

Well, TBH the nom sheet for Bob was only being handed around at 4 on the day before it was due.

Chucky the tree

I'd prefer to vote for Hitler then the other 3 clowns running.

Baggly

and who exactly is going to inspire us once/if we re-open nominations?

Sean7

I think I'll just spoil my vote in protest

Dunners

Sean7 wrote:

I think I'll just spoil my vote in protest

That's the sign of a second year vote so it is!!! First year it's all proper, second year it's spoil the ballot and third year it's no!!! I reckon next year I could end up running!

Anyhow I did post a long and proper reponse to all of the above, or at least I think I did - damn my over zealous link clicking :mad:. I would repost it all but as the polls are now closed it's a pointless waste of everyones time.

All I'll say is that the nomination process was poorly advertised (in my college at least, I found out through boards!), the need for 100+ signatures just to be nominated is maddness (as shown by one of the comments above) and any election with only one candidate is the pure definition of farce. That is all, now to go chill some champagne and await the results!!

projectmayhem

conical wrote:

The reason there are so few candidates is because no-one else applied.

I'm sure the free-thinking students of DIT will recognise that the people who have gone to the trouble of getting nominated, are people who can forward-plan and get things done.

no one else bloody well knew about it. i certainly didn't until i saw these stupid "vote fiona, she's your wonderwoman" posters around. she and that other guy (not bob, he's too important to actually talk to us peasants) walked around today rallying up the troops. bit late people, the election is mid-way in and you didn't bother your ass BEFORE i voted.

and this jibba-jabbing about getting things done? DIT is a social wasteland (oh yay, POD every week... what about students who dislike dance music and ugly pseudo-stripper aids-mongrels?). kevin st. jukebox has been broken for ages. aungier st. arcade games (all 2 of them) are newer, but cheaper then other campuses. don't even get me started on student-lecturer affairs.

coggins, travolta and "yer one" did feck all, and i somehow doubt the 3 tossers i voted no for could do much better but count my €800 while sipping champaign and smoking cigars. i'm just delighted i'm not foreign and paying 3 or 4 times the amount i paid.

end of rant.

Ciaran500

projectmayhem wrote:

no one else bloody well knew about it. i certainly didn't until i saw these stupid "vote fiona, she's your wonderwoman" posters around. she and that other guy (not bob, he's too important to actually talk to us peasants) walked around today rallying up the troops. bit late people, the election is mid-way in and you didn't bother your ass BEFORE i voted.

Both Bob and Hamid were around yesterday talking to us trying to get us to vote.

projectmayhem wrote:

and this jibba-jabbing about getting things done? DIT is a social wasteland (oh yay, POD every week... what about students who dislike dance music and ugly pseudo-stripper aids-mongrels?). kevin st. jukebox has been broken for ages.

You should come to Bolton Street, never any dance music played and jukebox updated every couple of weeks.

projectmayhem

Ciaran500 wrote:

Both Bob and Hamid were around yesterday talking to us trying to get us to vote.

You should come to Bolton Street, never any dance music played and jukebox updated every couple of weeks.

hamid was around. and i don't exactly have a choice in what campus to go to

Frankiestylee

The whole thing is an absolute joke. The posters didn't even say what positions the candidates were running for, it was all "vote bob" etc. I assumed all three of them were going for the same position, but... 3 uncontested postitions? That's a seriously bad reflection on DITSU.

Why is Bob allowed to run for two terms of office? Has someone not already told the guy to go out into the world and get a real job? I assumed you'd have to be a student in the college to become a sabbatical officer, but surely two sabbaticals in a row must have some effect on this? If it doesn't then Bobby boy could just keep running and running?!

Baggly

i dont think you have to be a student, but anyway, i wouldn t be happy with a system that only lets you be in office for one term, mainly because if it was your first year in office, chances are, you would spend the year learning the ropes.

one year in office wouldnt work, and would just give you more to give out about.

as much as i think the rag trip was a joke, and that the nights out this year, compared to last year have been slightly weaker, the people that are organising this years events are doing a great job.

this includes the sabaticals as well as the local ents crews.

its easy to complain when you dont see the work that goes in behind the scenes.

Frankiestylee

I know I went into this else where, but...

It's a students Union. How is someone ment to represent the students when he/she is not a student? When you take on these sabbat positions as a student, you take them on because you want to do them ideally to benefit students. If you've finished college two years ago, you're really just doing it because it's a well paid job. College is over... move on.

What has Bob been doing this past year? I'm not talking about his effectiveness, I'm just wondering what he's done. Alan was running events and dealing with shops. The lady (no idea what her name is) has her plate full with welfare cases... but what is Bobby boy up to? Apparently he seems to act like the PRO of the union, from what I can see. Um... ok then. Has anyone heard him say anything or launched any campaigns recently? What has the dude done other then give out about our behaviour during the rag trip!?! No wonder he's going for a second term!

As for running events etc, I know exactly what is required to do what they do, and people make it out that it's soooo hard etc etc, but I like to remind people of the beautiful point that THEY'RE GETTING PAID! For the sabbats this is supposed to be a full time job. I have no sympathy and I expect results.

Baggly

ok, well ill just state again, that a one term stay of office would just not work. you would just be complaining that they dont know waht they are doing if that were to come about.

'The President is the main representative of all DIT students. S/he deals with student issues internally, within the DIT and externally with the Government and other external bodies. S/he is responsible for SU finance, strategic development, democracy, campaigns and communications within the Student Union.'

so basically the president is the internal co ordinator of the union. and i do know that bob does attend a truck load of committee meetings that noone ever hears about cause they are so inconsiquential, so to say he does nothing is a bit unfair, and is comparable to working people saying students do sh!t all. now i dont know about you, but i work my ass off in college, and that kind of generalisation, like the one you said in your above post, is annoying.

projectmayhem

petermonaghan wrote:

i dont think you have to be a student, but anyway, i wouldn t be happy with a system that only lets you be in office for one term, mainly because if it was your first year in office, chances are, you would spend the year learning the ropes.

one year in office wouldnt work, and would just give you more to give out about.

as much as i think the rag trip was a joke, and that the nights out this year, compared to last year have been slightly weaker, the people that are organising this years events are doing a great job.

this includes the sabaticals as well as the local ents crews.

its easy to complain when you dont see the work that goes in behind the scenes.

erm.. if it takes a year to learn the ropes in a students' union then maybe you shouldn't run at all? you have about 4 years of degree time. 2 years put into a students union where, in your first term, you did, for all intensive purposes, NOTHING then sweet jesus i want a lot in your second. that's €1600 odd of my money they have for each IRISH student for those 2 terms. nevermind the foreign ones.

as far as the work going into various events. there were only about 3 "events". 2 of them were carnivals. 1 was the rag trip. the rest of these "events" i could have organised alone, whilst blindfolded, upside-down, being beaten with sticks... etc.

what's your connection to the SU anyway, you seem to stick up for them a lot?

Baggly

only cause you seem to bash them alot.

i just like playing devils advocate, and tbh, i agree with alot of what you are saying, i just dont like having an unbalanced argument on show for everyone.

no connection really, i just know all three of the sabaticals as i was involved last year. this year im not. got slightly disillusioned.

Sean7

Dunners wrote:

That's the sign of a second year vote so it is!!! First year it's all proper, second year it's spoil the ballot and third year it's no!!! I reckon next year I could end up running!!!

I'm a third year actually, but yes I have given up on the system

Dunners

petermonaghan wrote:

ok, well ill just state again, that a one term stay of office would just not work.

How do we know it wouldn't work?? Has it ever been tried?? I can see the drawbacks and benefits of each situation. If candidates knew they were only getting a year it might motivate them to get off their ass and do something big and meaningful. Then again you could end up in a "I'm in and I ain't got to get re-elected so what do I care" situation. Maybe a single year term wouldn't work but why not try it if it's never been done before? Surely it can't get much worse.

petermonaghan wrote:

'The President is the main representative of all DIT students. S/he deals with student issues internally, within the DIT and externally with the Government and other external bodies. S/he is responsible for SU finance, strategic development, democracy, campaigns and communications within the Student Union.'

In my honest opinion Bobby has failed on at least four of those responsibilities, maybe even all five. What strategic development has he done of DITSU and DIT? Has he made any long term decisions at all?

He's failed in his democratic duties by the mere fact that all the elections have been a single horse race this year. The elections and nominations should have been promoted months in advance and should have been a major campaign (what campaigns has he done???) to effectively communicate (yet more failings) the importance to the entire student body.

The only thing I can't say he's failed on is the SU Finances and even there it's a questionable area as I've never had the current SU Financial situation communicated to me. We could be a million euro in debt and I wouldn't know, surely such a situation is intolerable.

petermonaghan wrote:

so basically the president is the internal co ordinator of the union. and i do know that bob does attend a truck load of committee meetings that noone ever hears about cause they are so inconsiquential, so to say he does nothing is a bit unfair, and is comparable to working people saying students do sh!t all. now i dont know about you, but i work my ass off in college, and that kind of generalisation, like the one you said in your above post, is annoying.

It doesn't take a year to learn how to co-ordinate, you can either do it or you can't, and this goes back to your point that we shouldn't really judge people too harshly as they need a year to get used to things before we can expect major results.

Before I came to college I spent an entire year as youth co-ordinator for my sport, organising training sessions in multiple regions, ensuring adequate levels of coaching/supervision, balancing income from centers with outgoings to coaches, etc, attending meetings with government bodies and the sports council and organising a massive youth tournament. Yes it took a couple of months to get used to the way things were done but not even half-way through the year I was getting things done and done well. It doesn't take a full year to learn how to do something like that and if it does in DITSU then the transition from one sabbat to another needs to be URGENTLY reviewed.

Maybe I wouldn't be so hostile to Bob and the rest of the SU sabbats if they actually told me about these "inconsequential" meetings, what they were about and what was decided.

To effectively represent me you must also effectively inform me.

Baggly

i would be interested to know if the people you were organising knew exactly what you were doing while you were doing it.

im not defending anyone here, im just trying to offer some sort of counter arguement. the fact of the matter is how would you know if bob has facilitated the INTERNAL communications of ditsu?

as i stated before, the only way you would know how well he has done his job is if you were one of the other big wigs in ditsu.

also, the title of president is misleading, it implies a leadership that the role, imo, just doesnt have. the postition is more like what a secretary of a committee should do, ie, communications, democracy, all that sh!te.

perhaps we need better leaders as you have said in this forum, or perhaps we need to change to a one term system as you have also said, but ill put it this way, would you run knowing that even if you tried your hardest, it probably wouldnt be recognised as good enough? couple this with the fact that the leaders you obviously desire dont want the job (one candidate per post this year) i dont see the point in your moaning about the situation.

sure, a better job could have been done, but jesus could probably do a better job than my parish priest.

Dunners

petermonaghan wrote:

i would be interested to know if the people you were organising knew exactly what you were doing while you were doing it.

Through the miracle of regular e-mailed updates and meetings they were kept informed of what was going on. I believe this falls under the heading "communications".

petermonaghan wrote:

im not defending anyone here, im just trying to offer some sort of counter arguement. the fact of the matter is how would you know if bob has facilitated the INTERNAL communications of ditsu?

as i stated before, the only way you would know how well he has done his job is if you were one of the other big wigs in ditsu.

I could be mistaken but as I understand it the President and the other officers are not elected to serve the "big wigs of DITSU" but to serve the students. Maybe Bob has facilitated the "internal" communications of DITSU but as a DIT Student I am supposedly part of the organisation and so should have seen some of the internal communication. When push comes to shove anything that has been going on should be communicated to the students of DIT as it is THEIR student's union, the only thing I heard from Bob this year was an apology for the RAG debacle.

EDIT: Actually going looking back over my e-mails the RAG apology wasn't even sent by him but rather by a secretary or some such on his behalf, unless I'm to believe the President of DITSU doesn't have an e-mail address!! For the love of God come on...

petermonaghan wrote:

the postition is more like what a secretary of a committee should do, ie, communications, democracy, all that sh!te.

Again I say he hasn't facilitated any of these areas to my knowledge and if he has why the hell isn't he blowing his own trumpet and letting people know he's not as useless as he seems?

petermonaghan wrote:

the leaders you obviously desire dont want the job (one candidate per post this year) i dont see the point in your moaning about the situation.

I'm sure more people would run if the nomination process was publicised earlier, more pro-actively and properly explained. Hell I would have loved to run but as I said in one of my posts on this (can't remember the thread) the first I heard of the whole process was on boards about two days before it was due to be completed. Hardly enough time for me to consider properly the implications of taking a gap year and to organise and execute an effective campaign.

As you said the job of the President is to promote democracy, if he had been doing his job properly everyone should have known at least a month in advance. Exactly how hard is it to send a group e-mail? To organise a few explanatory meetings? To actually put the posters up well in advance??? The answer to all three is not hard at all, I should know I've helped do it myself a number of times the last couple of years.

If this were a country I could almost accuse Bobby of deliberately underpublicising the elections to benefit his own re-election campaign but for the time being I would prefer to think of him as incompetant rather than devious.

petermonaghan wrote:

sure, a better job could have been done, but jesus could probably do a better job than my parish priest.

I'm not looking for some super-President just one that actually does something visible and useful, or at the very least someone who let's me know what's going on well in advance.

Baggly

you raise some good points, but i have to disagree with you on most of them. im not going to summarise why, as anyone with the time can just look back over the three threads on this forum to see both of our opinions.

we have different ideas for running an organisation, and while i agree the standard of communications has been poor this year, i am against scapegoating three people who are, after all, students at heart. you may debate this term (students at heart), but knowing the three sabats, i can say that their motives and motivations are not the sinister plot to do sh!t all work that some may suggest.

tbh, i dont have reasons why the communications in the union are messed up, only theories, but i do feel that the changes you suggest would not only not work, but would not even impact on the student body at large, even if implemented.

we have to realise that the student union movement is on a downturn, hell, it was in a downturn last year when i suggested DITSU leave the USI and focus on getting our own boat together.

and tbh, someone who didnt take the time and effort to become involved in the union so they would know when the elections were on would not get my vote at the very least.

i guess thats the common thread about the three candidates elect. they have all been involved with the union over the last few year(s) and took the time to find out.

will you be asking why it wasnt delivered to you on a silver plater as well?

Frankiestylee

I disagree with the whole 'well if you weren't involved in the union you've no right being a sabbat' kind of arguement. Sometimes a fresh approach is needed, rather then doing things a certain way because they've always been done that way. The current TCD president got elected as he was never involved in the SU and said he would represent the normal students and not just act like the SU hacks.
A year of involvement in the union would be nice though, just to get a feel for things and realise what needs to be changed, though you shouldn't have to be actively involved to do this, just go along and observe at meetings (I still haven't found out if regular students are allowed do this.).

As for a one year term... that's how all the other SUs in the country work, so why not in DIT. I think the emphasis is more on the sabbat being a student rather then someone who has graduated from college two years ago and so is effectively out of touch with students (despite what he or she thinks/claims).

I think Bob failed in his job this year. Maybe he kept the union ticking along, but there is so much wrong with it that could be corrected, and so many issues that should have been championed. If the President of the SU isn't our leader in such matters, then who is?

The lack of communication is the real shocking thing, I mean... it's not hard to send out an email. Most other presidents send out a weekly college wide email to keep the students informed... yet Bob has sent... um... nothing?

Dunners

I've got to agree with frankiestylee on this one and the line on the not involved situation.

I'm not going to lie I haven't gone out and banged on SU doors and demanded to know this that and the other - yet. What I have done though is note that I'm not happy with the way it was last year (even though it was somewhat better) and I'm not happy with the way things have been this year. Now I'm motivated and I will go out and bang on doors and demand information.

Am I going to get so involved that I do the sabbats jobs for them? No. Am I willing to help out? Yes, show me where. Will I be running next year? Almost certainly.

The problem with many large organisations is that they are too busy voting in "members of the club" who are more than happy to be apologists rather than actually fixing the problems. A fresh perspective every once in a while isn't necessarily a bad thing and the best way to get a fresh perspective is usually to look outside the actual organisation.

Just because I would like to know where I can find out information on the SU, elections, etc, etc doesn't make a lazy git who wants everything delievered directly to me. Nor does it serve as an excuse for the SU not to bother telling me anything and demanding I fight to find out anything. All I want is a half-way house, the SU can put things in a central repository fine but at least tell me where that is. I actually had to use an e-mail from LAST YEAR'S President just to find the web address for the SU site. If that's not a complete failing of communications from the SU then I sure as hell don't know what is.

Is it any wonder that the SU movement in DIT or anywhere else is on a downturn if the SU seems unwilling to engage with the students. I don't think I've seen any of the current sabbats bar Alan anywhere near my campus or Auinger street which I also regularly frequent. Where have they been and what have they been doing???

You challenged me to make some suggestions on how to improve the SU petermonaghan and that I have dutifully done. If you don't agree then that's your right and it's all fine and dandy but make some suggestions of your own rather than just saying you don't agree and claiming I wouldn't be able to comprehend such things as I haven't sat at every SU meeting that's ever been held.

Oh and as a final point, just because I haven't been intimately involved in the SU this year doesn't mean I haven't been working hard in and around DIT. I chose this year to get involved and help out with several societies instead, next year I'm going to get more involved in the SU. Had I known things would be so woeful this year I might have chosen differently - I guess I was being stupidly optimistic what with the change of management and all.

Anyhow time to get back to assignments...

Baggly

Dunners wrote:

I actually had to use an e-mail from LAST YEAR'S President just to find the web address for the SU site.

thats a bit of an exageration. a person with our intellect should be able to reason out www.ditsu.ie.

and with regard to me offering solutions and ideas, i had been actively doing so IN the su for all of last year before realising how little can be done within the limits of sabatical positions. they are quite restrained due to the constitution of both DITSU and the USI. why not change the constitution i hear you say, well they already did so. why not do it again? because voter turn out is so bad that it wouldnt be representitive.

Dunners wrote:

Is it any wonder that the SU movement in DIT or anywhere else is on a downturn if the SU seems unwilling to engage with the students.

i propose the idea that some of the people within DITSU are so disillusioned with the students because the students are disillusioned with them. the problem is cyclical, and since you guys seem to be firmly on this side of the fence, ill point this out for you. STUDENTS ARENT BEING ENGAGED BECAUSE THEY THEMSELVES ARE NOT ENGAGING.

however, dont take anything i say as a personal slur to you, i would welcome your 'fresh approach'. i just hope the same tarnishing of zeal that happened to me does not happen to you. far be it from me to try to interpret the democratic goings on of our union with the slightest bit of impartialism, and not get shot down for it. its easy to denounce and propose apparently easy solutions, but please ask yourself why, if these solutions are so simple, have they not been employed before?

Dunners wrote:

Oh and as a final point, just because I haven't been intimately involved in the SU this year doesn't mean I haven't been working hard in and around DIT. I chose this year to get involved and help out with several societies instead, next year I'm going to get more involved in the SU.

and finally also, please dont play that card with me, as i managed to be involved with the SU and run societies(plural) both last year and this. as well as course work. if you wanted to, you could have run. all three of the sabbats this year and last did the exact same things as both of us in terms of involvment in socs and college.

but hey, ill vote for ya

projectmayhem

petermonaghan wrote:

STUDENTS ARENT BEING ENGAGED BECAUSE THEY THEMSELVES ARE NOT ENGAGING.

it's not the sole job of students to engage is student politics. the people on the "other" side of the fence should be inviting students to be engaged. the first time i've seen any effort on the half of SU to "get involved" was the elections. as much of a sham as they were, it was the first time SU asked students en-masse for their opinions. when has this been done before? none to me. and afaik, no one i know in the college has been asked how they feel about dit.

people aren't going to volunteer themselves. ditsu know that, so why don't they make the effort to engage the student body to give their opinions.

Dunners

petermonaghan wrote:

STUDENTS ARENT BEING ENGAGED BECAUSE THEY THEMSELVES ARE NOT ENGAGING.

Oh come on, that's a stock excuse and there's no way in hell it can be justified here. The sabbats are in PAID jobs to represent the Student Body and part of that role is to inform the student body. Even if it seems like a pointless task because nobody is listening and e-mails are being permanently deleted it is part of their PAID job so they sure as hell should be doing it.

In any case I think you'll find alot more people are ready, willing and able to engage with the SU if only they are given adequate information on how they can do it. Of course nobody is going to get involved if they're not being informed on how to.

"We'll do something when you do something" - Is that the new SU policy? It's sure as hell what you're suggesting.

petermonaghan wrote:

if these solutions are so simple, have they not been employed before?

I never said they were so easy to implement and I have no doubt that it would be difficult to get them working as change in any large organisation is inherently difficult. My point is much simpler, the current crop of sabbats appear to me - and judging by this board and conversations in college to many others - to have done little or nothing to improve the situation.

Given this I am expressing my right as a member of the electorate to shout and scream at them for their apparent lack of any progress.

petermonaghan wrote:

as i managed to be involved with the SU and run societies(plural) both last year and this. as well as course work. if you wanted to, you could have run.

Actually I was just responding to your implication that I had done nothing but turn up to lectures and go home in DIT this and various other years. Unfortunately I couldn't do both this year for personal reasons which if you really want I can elaborate on.

petermonaghan wrote:

but hey, ill vote for ya

Not what you said earlier, have I changed your mind already

Baggly

Dunners wrote:

"We'll do something when you do something" - Is that the new SU policy? It's sure as hell what you're suggesting.

oh but its ok that students have that attitude.

what happened to the spirit of jfk - ask not what your country can do for you.........

no need to elaborate, but we all have things going on in our lives.

now unless you have some new arguements, i wont be chewing over what we have been discussing in the three threads on this forum.

ill lay out my understanding of what we have established.

-the su is in a state.
-your not happy with the sabbats
-you think you will do a better job
-i think that alot of the unseen work is being ignored by the student population
-i think the su is in a state of transition
-im not privy to the inner workings of sabbatical training
-i dont think you should comment on the difficulty of a job until you have actualy done the job first.
-your agruement is based on events without explaining the reasons behind those events - ie the activitity/inactivity of the sabbats.

did i miss anything?

and no, you didnt change my mind, but you will probably be the only candidate. which position will you be running for?

Dunners

petermonaghan wrote:

oh but its ok that students have that attitude.

what happened to the spirit of jfk - ask not what your country can do for you.........

It's not OK for students to have that attitude but the point is the majority don't, all that's needed is a bit of info on how, the half-way house I was discussing. As for the JFK thing, the American government isn't too bad at letting people know how to get involved so...

petermonaghan wrote:

no need to elaborate, but we all have things going on in our lives.

And unfortunately they stop you doing everything you would want to at any particular time. Luckily I should be back on form for next year!

petermonaghan wrote:

ill lay out my understanding of what we have established.

-the su is in a state.
-your not happy with the sabbats
-you think you will do a better job
-i think that alot of the unseen work is being ignored by the student population
-i think the su is in a state of transition
-im not privy to the inner workings of sabbatical training
-i dont think you should comment on the difficulty of a job until you have actualy done the job first.
-your agruement is based on events without explaining the reasons behind those events - ie the activitity/inactivity of the sabbats.

I agree with pretty much all but the last two points.

1.)If you shouldn't comment on something until you have done it then nobody will ever be able to comment, question or complain about the President given that it's almost always someone who is in their last year and then leaves when the job is over.

I think I can comment for two reasons. One I'm a member of the student body and thus the electorate and so have a right to express my views on our elected officials. Two, having done similar organisation jobs I know some of the problems that can occur. Whilst I know they're not the exact same job this does give me some insight which I can use in my analysis and discussion.

2.)If I knew the reason why there has been a complete lack of communication this last year from the sabbats/SU in general then I would explain it. Unfortunately I'm not privvy to this and can only speculate. I don't really want to get into speculation over this as the only reason I can think of for not sending a few regular e-mails is pure and simple laziness.

petermonaghan wrote:

and no, you didnt change my mind, but you will probably be the only candidate. which position will you be running for?

Aiming for the top, set the sights high and pray I don't overshoot!

Baggly

Dunners wrote:

It's not OK for students to have that attitude but the point is the majority don't

and you are basing the opinion of the majority on......?

i feel the majority dont care either way.

Dunners

On the hundred or so from my course alone who have expressed interest in what's going on. Not the most representative sample maybe but it does show that there is interest. People are inherently interested in things that concern them and I am fairly certain that there is interest from the majority of people.

Perhaps you are confusing interest with enthusiasm. No people aren't jumping up and down screaming an shouting about the union but they are interested in what's going on and how it's effecting them.

Baggly

Dunners wrote:

Perhaps you are confusing interest with enthusiasm. No people aren't jumping up and down screaming an shouting about the union but they are interested in what's going on and how it's effecting them.

well ya see, thats the thing. of my class of 90, im the only one who is interested in the union and how it affects me and others.

guess it kinda balances out, doesnt it.

Dunners

If it balances out then you're still looking at about 50% interested even if not screaming and shouting enthusiastic, last time I checked that would be a fair few thousand people...

Frankiestylee

heh heh, that's the interesting thing with that JFK qoute, it's world famous. If Bob could even manage to squeeze out one email to the college, that'd be handy.