Infinite Monkey Theory..

Basq

You know the theory that if you put an infinite amount of monkeys in a room with typewriters for an infinite amount of time, they'll eventually type the complete works of Shakespeare (well.. there's a variation on what they will type depending on the source but.. a complicated work let's put it that way).

It came up today in college when we were all watching Karl Pilkington's hilarious take on it - see here!

And it seemed i was the only one siding with Ricky Gervais (that it actually will happen eventually as it's the nature of infinity and you can't say it will never happen cos eventually it will).

I'd be interested to hear other people's take on this!

the real ramon

I'd agree with you whole heartedly, to think of it another way you'ld end up with everything ever written by humans (in latin script) eventually, plus things written that were even greater or more profound than anything ever written so far by humans.

I'm guessing you're probably good at maths, it would probably take a mathematical brain to see it that way, rather than an intuitive brain

monkeyfudge

Well... with an infinite amount of monkeys at least one of those monkeys would hit all the right keys to type the complete works straight away... you wouldn't need an infinite amount of time, only as much time as it would take to type.

Where would you keep an infinite amount of monkeys anyway? Can we keep them at my house? It would be funny.

hotspur

The real question is: how many monkeys would it take to produce something better than what is written on this forum...I'm gonna guess 7!

monkeyfudge

hotspur wrote:

The real question is: how many monkeys would it take to produce something better than what is written on this forum...I'm gonna guess 7!

One or two should do it, I reckon.

Monkeys truly are outstanding though.

simu

Peh. Text by itself is nothing - it's only when it can mean something to a human mind that it matters.

monkeyfudge

simu wrote:

Peh. Text by itself is nothing - it's only when it can mean something to a human mind that it matters.

Ah... but a human mind will find a pattern and a meaning in anything.

simu

Well, more meaning in some things than others... now where's that gripping pebble I was examining yesterday...

[would put yakka yakka smiley here but it's been cruelly removed ]

Earthhorse

I disagree that it's the "nature of infinity that everything will eventually happen". The nature of infinity is simply that it will never end which doesn't prevent the monkeys typing out the same formulaic trash over and over again.

Stupid monkeys!

monkeyfudge

Boo! It's an infinite amount of monkeys, not an infinite amount of Jeffery Archer's we're talking about here.

The monkeys will do just fine.

Rhyme

But who cleans up after the monkeys?

Anyway, its just probability... putting 100 monkeys in front of 100 typewriters will eventually get results, but put 100 monkeys in front of 99 typewriters and you have mayhem.

Earthhorse

monkeyfudge wrote:

Boo! It's an infinite amount of monkeys, not an infinite amount of Jeffery Archer's we're talking about here.

The monkeys will do just fine.

If it were horses we were talking about I could understand. But monkeys?

Get real man.

blorg

It depends on the typewriters working and the monkeys being random in their typing. If all the typewriters lacked the letter 'E' for example, they are never going to type the complt works of Shakspar (although they could come close.)

monkeyfudge

I bet the monkey Shakespeare works would be a lot funnier.

Like that scene in Macbeth with the porter which you're told by your English teacher is really funny... but it simply isn't in any way whatsoever. I bet a monkey could make that scene much better... perhaps with some feces flinging going on.

Catsmokinpot

they did a parody of that in the simpsons didnt they, amazing theory though

Basq

Catsmokinpot wrote:

they did a parody of that in the simpsons didnt they, amazing theory though

Yep..

"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times!!.. YOU stupid monkey!"

McGinty

Instead of coming out with hypothesis, have any monkeys ACTUALLY WRITTEN SOMETHING similar to the works of shakespeare. Its very easy to come out with probables, come out with facts.

Laplandman

Yes. It took me only five monkeys. I just told them to put in lots of Italians, a few of ghosts, the odd witch, a fairy or two, some cross-dressers, a couple of moors, plenty of duels, syphilis, and not to skimp on the innuendo. Of course one stupid monkey gave me Romeo and Juliet. Blurst episode ever.

Crucifix

McGinty wrote:

Instead of coming out with hypothesis, have any monkeys ACTUALLY WRITTEN SOMETHING similar to the works of shakespeare. Its very easy to come out with probables, come out with facts.

lol, this post reminds me of that bit in Dirk Gently's Holistic detective agency where Dirk is talking about performing the Schrodinger's Cat experiment. Hilarious.

Hagar

An infinite amount of monkeys would fill the universe, or even an infinite number of universes, so there would be no room for any humans therefore we couldn't exist.

Sand

And it seemed i was the only one siding with Ricky Gervais (that it actually will happen eventually as it's the nature of infinity and you can't say it will never happen cos eventually it will).

I'd be interested to hear other people's take on this!

Its just an example of infinity. Getting tied up in knots over the types of monkeys or keyboards is missing the point. One way to demonstrate it to your friend is to offer them 10 euro if they can throw a coin on a table and it comes to rest on its edge - not heads or tails but on the edge. If they cant do it in one throw they pay you 10 euro. Theyll tell you to get lost because its nearly impossible. Then offer them 10, 100, 1000, 1,000,000, etc etc attempts where they only have to get it right once. Theyll still say get lost because no one is going to waste time tossing a coin a zillion times, but eventually youd get a result where the coin came to rest on its edge.

EDIT: Actually, youd better be ready to fork over 10 euro to prove your point because your friend will say if youre right, then eventually hed win, so you owe him 10 euro.

Playboy

The monkey theory on a serious note is used by Richard Dawkins in his book the blind watchmaker to try and dismiss God as an explanatory hypothesis. Look here for a more detailed discussion.

Son Goku

Just to give you an idea of how it can work:

http://user.tninet.se/~ecf599g/aardasnails/java/Monkey/webpages/

I think people get caught up to much in the monkey part of it.
If you said "A pile of computers typing randomly from now to infinity would accidently write the complete works of Shakespere", more would believe it.

Laplandman

I fail to see how an infinite time-span implies eventualism. It seems to me that there is always the possibility of serial frustration - the failure to produce the hypothesised product (be it Coriolanus or A Tale of Two Cities) again and again, ad infinitum. Blurst case scenario.

Son Goku

Laplandman wrote:

I fail to see how an infinite time-span implies eventualism. It seems to me that there is always the possibility of serial frustration - the failure to produce the hypothesised product (be it Coriolanus or A Tale of Two Cities) again and again, ad infinitum. Blurst case scenario.

The strictest statement of the theorem is that as the set of trails for something tends to infinity the probability of occurance tends to one.

master master

Son Goku wrote:

The strictest statement of the theorem is that as the set of trails for something tends to infinity the probability of occurance tends to one.

Probability. It would probably happen but then again maybe it wouldn't. I mean a letter followed precisely by the right letter is random enough but then imagine the order, the punctuation and the length. You're asking alot of a monkey, considering the billions of humans who can't write for sh*t.

Dades

master master wrote:

You're asking alot of a monkey, considering the billions of humans who can't write for sh*t.

We're asking nothing of the monkey, except that he keeps typing for infinity.

That Ricky Gervais clip is fantastic.

jackdaw

basquille wrote:

You know the theory that if you put an infinite amount of monkeys in a room with typewriters for an infinite amount of time, they'll eventually type the complete works of Shakespeare (well.. there's a variation on what they will type depending on the source but.. a complicated work let's put it that way).

It came up today in college when we were all watching Karl Pilkington's hilarious take on it - see here!

And it seemed i was the only one siding with Ricky Gervais (that it actually will happen eventually as it's the nature of infinity and you can't say it will never happen cos eventually it will).

I'd be interested to hear other people's take on this!

1 monkey typing for an infinite amount of time would produce everything ever written, every book, every article ..
even this thread...

you don't need infinite amount of monkeys..

blorg

jackdaw wrote:

1 monkey typing for an infinite amount of time would produce everything ever written, every book, every article ..
even this thread...

you don't need infinite amount of monkeys..

What if you were in a rush?

koHd

the real ramon wrote:

it would probably take a mathematical brain to see it that way, rather than an intuitive brain

Yep.

Valmont

What if you gave the monkeys paints and canvases, would we have eventually have Klimts and Picassos? Or would they be named after the monkey who did them?