Liverpool v Benfica (scores, everything !!)

CivilServant

gimmick wrote:

Liverpool were 'out Liverpooled' tonight. Benfica were never truly threatened, and I always felt Benfica would get a second.

I agree that alot of Liverpool players must go, most notably Traore and Cisse. I do find it surprising that people think Risse is a squad player at best. He laways impresses me - more so as a left full.

I thought Fowler did quite well when he came on tonight. Certainly better than what Morientes contributed.

LOL i agree.

decies

With Traore playing and risse not we were basicaly f%^&*$ from the start .
For the Bin::
Morientes hasnt worked.
Cisse an extra on the simpsons.
Kewell overrated and over here
Garcia sucks his thumb and cant Pass.
Crouch no confidence,no skill,no good.

Good luck arsenal

MonkeyTennis

very dissapointed. Unlucky not to score in the first half but didnt take our chances either. Morientes has been dissapointing all year. The basis of a very good team but we need proven quality up front.

Slightly bemused by some of Rafas decisons but thats for another day.

PHB

Benfica are not a bad team, and anyone who says othrewise is just blinkered to their own teams preformance.

They make the other team like ****e. That's how they play. They are a destructive team. Liverpool are also a destructive team, they make the team they play look ****e, but can't do that when they are playing offensivly. Benfica are a good team, and a team to watch in the next round, although not if you like to watch good football.

TBH, I've been happy with the results in the CL overall this knockout round.
I feel in general the defensive boring teams have been knocked out, and the exciting footballing attacking teams have gone through, which is only good for football.

As for Rafa, he might be a bit frustrated at the lack of progress he is making, and i'm sure he is aware of the amount of money which is needed to bring the squad to that extra level, but I honastly would not be suprised to see him move to Madrid, it is afterall his dream.

kaimera

bah, first goal was very good.
****ing sin to have to player we were 'that' close to buying knock us out of the champions league.

Secong goal :rolleyes: Me, I blame Djimi. ffs, he was watching the man with the ball and not the runner on the overlap till it was too late.
Muppet.

Pld Benfica. Over both legs, we were muck. Hitting the post twice, Crouch missing a sitter...Stevie missing at the death...arse.

Yes, we got our luck last year and made it 5 Champions League trophies. [thats five for the rest of you guy] but we haven't built on it.

Crouching tiger, missing strikers comes to mind.

redspider

A very poor night for Liverpool, and a night when many of the home truths came home to roost.

The problems we have had this season have been well documented and pointed out on this forum, with poor strikers neither creating nor being able to finish as being one of the main problems. That problem came back to haunt Liverpool last night with a vengeance. On one occasion Crouch was right through one on one with the Goalie from about 10 yards out yet pathetically hit the shot straight at the keeper. I hope everyone including Benitez have their eyes fully open now in terms of his capability. Garcia also should have done better with his chance, and Liverpool did manage to hit the woodwork a few times.

So where did it all go wrong. Although Hyppia was out and Traore replace him, this was not a factor. Even for the 1sy Benfica goal which was a killer (lets foget about the 2nd one which came at the death when Liverpool were playing risk-football), it was only half-chance that was very well finished. I would blame Jamie about 10% for the goal, perhaps he should have cleared it rather than trying to pass it out, and Traore 20% for letting Simao (one of Liverpool's potential buys!) get a shot off unchallenged. No blame on Reina though and the goal was made 70% by Simao.

We were left with an uphill challenge from that point, and although in previous matches we have managed to pull 3 goals back, I felt that psychologically asking this off the team again was just a step too far.

Morientes was woeful. I must be saying this for 6 months now. I said it last year too. Benitez, wake up. Also for the fans and the Liverpool board, there is talk about giving Rafa more money, but it is not the total amount of money that managers get, its important that he uses it wisely. If anyone writes out a list of signings Rafa has made, what percentage rate does he have of signing good players that are good enough for a starting place. Alonso, yes, a great buy. He did good last night. Anyone else? Reina, ok, no mistakes last night. This is an exercise that needs to be done. To me, Rafa has a hit rate that is below average.

Back to the game. With Riise injured and Warnock standing in, our attacking potential was reduced further. Riise gets up and down te pitch a lot and can support the left midfielder, Kewell in this case. You will all probably have seen that kewell who hugged the touchline hardly got the ball.

Now, there must be some hats off to Benfica and Koeman, who organised his team well in midfiled. At tines, they were man-marking Gerrard and Alonso, and were snuffing out moves in the middle of the park. Gerrard who showed good movement as usual unfortunately had no-one who could play with him in terms of speed and speed of thought up-front. Kewell stayed out wide too much. Garcia tried. Morientes speed of thought was in the snail category. Crouch was Crouch, too slow, big awkward.

I dont blame Benitez for the selection, although surely Pongolle (I know, on loan) would have been better than having Cisse out wide right. Cisse is NOT a winger, how many times does Rafa have top play him there and see him not do it there for him to realise that.

Its frustrating because if we would have had a few different players together, perhaps it could have been better. If Riise was fit, if Fowler was on from the start or Cisse, drop Morientes. Maybe Hamann on from the start with Gerrard out wide right.

We've no-one to blame but ourselves, and the seeds for this have been sown for some time. And surely Baros is better than Cruch or Morientes.

A big lesson for Liverpool last night, and one for Rafa as well. I'm not calling for his head, far from it. He is a type of manager that can learn from his mistakes, but its important that if he does blame some of the players for under-performing, the reality is that they do not have the capability, which is an entorely different thing, and that is his responsibility, to compile a team with capability.

I dont blame Crouch as a person, or Cisse or Morientes. They tried their personal best. They are just not good enough, they just dont have the capability. Rafa needs to recognise that.

redspider

BolBill

Kingp35 wrote:

Well said. People on here must just be listening to all the crap they hear and not actually watching Benfica play. They have a good defence, both their centre backs are very good, good midfield, two very good wingers (3 if you **** geovanni as a winger) and a good striker in Nuno Gomes. the keeper isnt great but thats it. Wake the hell up everyone and give credit where its due. The score was 3-0 after the two legs. They are a GOOD side!!

Listen I agree with nearly all you say, but NUNO GOMES IS F-ING SH*TE mate, was good in Euro 2000 and a disgrace since, hes rubbish FFS !

RE*AC*TOR

Just going back to the RTE claim on how much benitez spent...
here's the breakdown:

Jan Kromkamp - free (swap)
Daniel Agger - £5,800,000
Robbie Fowler - free
Antonio Barragan £240,000
Peter Crouch £7,000,000
Jose Reina £6,000,000
Mohamed Sissoko £5,600,000
Boudewijn Zenden free
Bodwin Antwi £250,000
Ramon Calliste free
Jack Hobbs £200,000
Besian Idrizaj £275,000
Miquel Roque free
Scott Carson £750.000
Fernando Morientes £6.300,000
Mauricio Pellegrino free
Luis Garcia £6,000,000
Xabi Alonso £10,700,000
Antonio Nunez £3,00,000 (part exchg for owen)
Josemi £2,000,000

Works out at £54m or by todays exchange rate - €78m

so, Dunphy & co must have meant €.

RE*AC*TOR

Aquos76 wrote:

Listen mate, I quite clearly stated that it was only some of the liverpool supporters that were gloating. I have the up most respect for the majority of pool fans on here. There has been some excellent banter on here between us Man U fans ant the pool fans over these last few seasons. Its the members like mayordenis(who incedently got banned in a ManU/Pool thread) who I cant stand.

I don't know how you can point the finger at anybody. Pot-Kettle etc.
FYI there are plenty of ManU and supporters of other teams on this forum who are only too quick to offer their 2c on Liverpool, whether it be for reasons of trolling or spite or whatever.
I don't see why you should have a monopoly on righteous indignation.

TheMonster

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Just going back to the RTE claim on how much benitez spent...
here's the breakdown:

Jan Kromkamp - free (swap)
Daniel Agger - £5,800,000
Robbie Fowler - free
Antonio Barragan £240,000
Peter Crouch £7,000,000
Jose Reina £6,000,000
Mohamed Sissoko £5,600,000
Boudewijn Zenden free
Bodwin Antwi £250,000
Ramon Calliste free
Jack Hobbs £200,000
Besian Idrizaj £275,000
Miquel Roque free
Scott Carson £750.000
Fernando Morientes £6.300,000
Mauricio Pellegrino free
Luis Garcia £6,000,000
Xabi Alonso £10,700,000
Antonio Nunez £3,00,000 (part exchg for owen)
Josemi £2,000,000

Works out at £54m or by todays exchange rate - €78m

so, Dunphy & co must have meant €.

u could also argue Cisse - AFAIK the deal wasn't closed until he had started.

RE*AC*TOR

TheMonster wrote:

u could also argue Cisse - AFAIK the deal wasn't closed until he had started.

you'd be wrong

redspider

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Just going back to the RTE claim on how much benitez spent...
here's the breakdown:

Jan Kromkamp - free (swap)
Daniel Agger - £5,800,000
Robbie Fowler - free
Antonio Barragan £240,000
Peter Crouch £7,000,000
Jose Reina £6,000,000
Mohamed Sissoko £5,600,000
Boudewijn Zenden free
Bodwin Antwi £250,000
Ramon Calliste free
Jack Hobbs £200,000
Besian Idrizaj £275,000
Miquel Roque free
Scott Carson £750.000
Fernando Morientes £6.300,000
Mauricio Pellegrino free
Luis Garcia £6,000,000
Xabi Alonso £10,700,000
Antonio Nunez £3,00,000 (part exchg for owen)
Josemi £2,000,000

Works out at £54m or by todays exchange rate - €78m

so, Dunphy & co must have meant €.

Do you know how much the club got in terms of Player sales during his time?

Btw, one thing we all need to be cognizant of is that the Manager is not the sole vote in buying in players or in terms of how much is spent on them, and their salary costs, etc. These salary costs, their re-sale values, etc, must also be added into the equation in terms of his spending budget. Player values aren't a simple calculation of just looking at the price tag.

eg: Crouch may have been 7, Morientes 6.3 and Reina 6, but clearly Reina's value is higher than that of Crouch or Morientes now.

Btw, Scott Carson was a bargain at 250 quid! ;-)

redspider

Davei141

redspider wrote:

Btw, Scott Carson was a bargain at 250 quid! ;-)

Was he? sorry i couldnt resist.:D

TheMonster

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

you'd be wrong

Would I - according to all web searches he joined in July and Benitez in June. it may have been agreed earlier but he joined under Benitez.

RE*AC*TOR

redspider wrote:

Do you know how much the club got in terms of Player sales during his time?

Alou Diarra - £2m
Milan Baros - £6.5m
Antonio Nunez - undisclosed
El Hadji-Diouf - undisclosed
Michael Owen - £8m (does this include Nunez? - not sure)
Emile Hesky - £3.5m (rising to £6.25m)

lots of other players have left on frees - lots of Houllier's buys.

RE*AC*TOR

TheMonster wrote:

Would I - according to all web searches he joined in July and Benitez in June. it may have been agreed earlier but he joined under Benitez.

that's correct, but you said:

TheMonster wrote:

u could also argue Cisse - AFAIK the deal wasn't closed until he had started.

which is incorrect.

He didn't physically arrive till Benitez was manager, but the deal was done and dusted long before then.

iregk

TheMonster wrote:

Would I - according to all web searches he joined in July and Benitez in June. it may have been agreed earlier but he joined under Benitez.

no when GH was sacked and Rafa came in the deal was mid flow. Rafa honoured the agreement and pressed ahead with the remainder of the deal so technically while it was GH who wanted and struck the deal it was Rafa who closed it and signed the player. Therefore Rafa's purchase.

TheMonster

iregk wrote:

no when GH was sacked and Rafa came in the deal was mid flow. Rafa honoured the agreement and pressed ahead with the remainder of the deal so technically while it was GH who wanted and struck the deal it was Rafa who closed it and signed the player. Therefore Rafa's purchase.

yep that was my understanding - he could have opted out if he wished.

RE*AC*TOR

TheMonster wrote:

yep that was my understanding - he could have opted out if he wished.

Rick Parry confirmed Cissé would be joining the club before Benitez signed and after Houllier left.

Its plain for all to see that Cissé was not Benitez's choice, any attempt to prove otherwise is an excercise in semantics.

Big Nelly

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Rick Parry confirmed Cissé would be joining the club before Benitez signed and after Houllier left.

Its plain for all to see that Cissé was not Benitez's choice, any attempt to prove otherwise is an excercise in semantics.

Think it has already been pointed out the Benitez was trying to sign Cisse for Valencia when he was manager there. This was mentioned on the other Liverpool thread so your arguement is wrong. So yes Benitez did sign him

RE*AC*TOR

Big Nelly wrote:

Think it has already been pointed out the Benitez was trying to sign Cisse for Valencia when he was manager there. This was mentioned on the other Liverpool thread so your arguement is wrong. So yes Benitez did sign him

Yeah, and I'm the Queen of Sheba!

If Cissé ended up at Valencia after Benitez left - then I would say yes - Benitez signed him.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Big Nelly wrote:

Think it has already been pointed out the Benitez was trying to sign Cisse for Valencia when he was manager there. This was mentioned on the other Liverpool thread so your arguement is wrong. So yes Benitez did sign him

No such thing was confirmed Nelly. Rafa said that he had a scout that had watched him over a couple of years. Rafa never said that he had ever tried to sign him. YOU ARE WRONG, live with it.

yop

Quit yer trolling

Big Nelly

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Yeah, and I'm the Queen of Sheba!

If Cissé ended up at Valencia after Benitez left - then I would say yes - Benitez signed him.

Haha, yeah of course you are right....NOT. Read the Liverpool thread, it was Liverpool fans that agreed and said Benitez was trying to sign Cisse but wouldnt pay the money that Liverpool where willing to hand over so he went to Liverpool. I suppose if he was a great signing we would be listening to you saying it was a greta signing by Benitez but since he is brutal and a waste of money of course it wasnt Benitez that signed him....Liverpool fans should really start to take off your coloured glasses

Guy:Incognito

yop wrote:

Cason - Ever get a game!

Have you seen him play? No didnt think so. He's a very good young keeper. I dont think he's even 20 yet and not many keepers are first choice at that age. He's the permenant England U21 keeper and deservedly so. I've watched all Enlands games for the last year and he has been great, very commanding and no mistakes. He made 1 mistake for Liverpool V Jue last season but it didnt cost in the end (can anyone name a keeper that has'nt made a mistake?)

Oh, and it's Carson btw.:)

RE*AC*TOR

yop wrote:

Quit yer trolling

wo0t! thought i had read that crap before....

Big Nelly wrote:

Haha, yeah of course you are right....NOT. Read the Liverpool thread, it was Liverpool fans that agreed and said Benitez was trying to sign Cisse but wouldnt pay the money that Liverpool where willing to hand over so he went to Liverpool. I suppose if he was a great signing we would be listening to you saying it was a greta signing by Benitez but since he is brutal and a waste of money of course it wasnt Benitez that signed him....Liverpool fans should really start to take off your coloured glasses

Late may, Parry confirmed Cissé would be joining despite Houllier's exit. Benitez didn't quit Valencia till June 1st. You do the math.

p.pete

Big Nelly wrote:

Haha, yeah of course you are right....NOT. Read the Liverpool thread, it was Liverpool fans that agreed and said Benitez was trying to sign Cisse but wouldnt pay the money that Liverpool where willing to hand over so he went to Liverpool.

If it's in there then why don't you show us a link to what you've seen? Your argument always comes down to "read the thread" when you've been put in your place yet you never seem willing to point to what the hell you're talking about...

yop

Stekelly - I was actually asking a question as to if he ever gets a game, I know he is a good keeper but with Reina on in the mid 20's (?) then he might have a long wait!


Reactor - Me trolling...... u saying you are the expert

Ardent

redspider wrote:

So where did it all go wrong. Although Hyppia was out and Traore replace him, this was not a factor.

Disagree. Traore was a disaster last night. He was all over the shop for Benfica's first goal, leaving Carra isolated and ran around like a headless chicken trying to compensate, leaving Simao time and space to pick his spot. Warcnock was also hopelessly out of his depth for the duration of the game.

Whatever about us not scoring up until their goal, we were as good as gone after it.

The Insider

Big Nelly wrote:

Haha, yeah of course you are right....NOT. Read the Liverpool thread, it was Liverpool fans that agreed and said Benitez was trying to sign Cisse but wouldnt pay the money that Liverpool where willing to hand over so he went to Liverpool. I suppose if he was a great signing we would be listening to you saying it was a greta signing by Benitez but since he is brutal and a waste of money of course it wasnt Benitez that signed him....Liverpool fans should really start to take off your coloured glasses

Rafa never said he tried to sign him, just that some of his scouts had looked at him...taken from Rafa's first interview after he arrived.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N145193040618-1225.htm

"Djibril Cisse is due to arrive here from Auxerre very soon, is it true you tried to sign him for Valencia?

We had a scout at Valencia who watched Cisse for two years and he said to me that we would win the league a lot of times with him in our team. Now I am at Liverpool and Cisse is coming here, I hope his prediction comes true."

Lemlin

Dunphy was way over the top but watching his cliups was hilarious. Cisse really is a waste of space. Crouch and Morientes are just lucky he probably didn't have them time to start showing clips of them.

Liverpool were made look ordinary by a very ordinary European team. They opened up Benfica with little effort but couldn't score. Crouch being the main perpetrator.

Interesting to see that Dunphy and co. think Benitez will go. I didn't think he'd leave but, after watching last night, he looked pretty peeved off and, if they were to offer him a wad of cash like they are capable of, I could see him leaving for Madrid.

If he goes, I could see Gerrard leaving soon after, and Liverpool really would be in big trouble then.

smemon

dumphy made a very good point about expectations being raised to unrealistic levels after last years triumph.

he was saying benetiz might now realise he can't take liverpool furthur and match that 'fluke' liverpool managed last season. the honeymoon period is over.

it's a good point as listening to pool fans on here, they do expect success and have been gloating over the CL victory as if they were the best side in europe, which isnt the case and never was.

although it was a sensational and quite remarkable achievement when you think about it, it may lead to benetiz thinking he's done all he can do. i think he's done a fantastic job at liverpool, he's got a few donkeys there all right but overall the side is much much stronger than it was with houllier.

meldrew

Liverpool as a club are bigger than one man if Benitez did decide to go there would be no shortage of top managers looking for the job and as for Gerrard big players left before and the club survived , thats the nature of football

el rabitos

Dunphy was way over the top but watching his cliups was hilarious. Cisse really is a waste of space. Crouch and Morientes are just lucky he probably didn't have them time to start showing clips of them.

Liverpool were made look ordinary by a very ordinary European team. They opened up Benfica with little effort but couldn't score. Crouch being the main perpetrator.

Interesting to see that Dunphy and co. think Benitez will go. I didn't think he'd leave but, after watching last night, he looked pretty peeved off and, if they were to offer him a wad of cash like they are capable of, I could see him leaving for Madrid.

If he goes, I could see Gerrard leaving soon after, and Liverpool really would be in big trouble then.

you posting in a liverpool thread again on how **** liverpool are. shocking.

dumphy made a very good point about expectations being raised to unrealistic levels after last years triumph.

he was saying benetiz might now realise he can't take liverpool furthur and match that 'fluke' liverpool managed last season. the honeymoon period is over.

it's a good point as listening to pool fans on here, they do expect success and have been gloating over the CL victory as if they were the best side in europe, which isnt the case and never was.

although it was a sensational and quite remarkable achievement when you think about it, it may lead to benetiz thinking he's done all he can do. i think he's done a fantastic job at liverpool, he's got a few donkeys there all right but overall the side is much much stronger than it was with houllier.

last year was not a fluke. u dont fluke 3, 2 leg matches against top european teams.

last year rafa was very limited with his team selection and liverpool were forced to play the same formation and limited game for all of the knockout stage, with baros up front and gerrard behind him, garcia on the right, riise on the left, hamman and alonso or biscan in the centre.

it was a limited line up, but it was hard to break down and baros did alot of unthankfull work making alot of space.

this year, there is obviously less hunger to win it and theres too many options for strikers, none of which can score.

25 shots to benfica's 7 was a rough guess at what the final stats were, so clearly your talking crap tbh.

theres alot of work to be done with the current squad, but rafa will be there, he wont be leaving before he runs up the 3 years left on this current contract.

Lemlin

el rabitos wrote:

you posting in a liverpool thread again on how **** liverpool are. shocking.

So good you needed to post it twice?

To get to the point, I've often posted on Newcastle threads about how sh!te Newcastle were. Or on Man Utd threads about how sh!te United are. The difference is that their fans seem to be able to take some criticism, and not instantly jump to the conclusion that anyone who says a negative word against the side has a vendetta against them. In fact, I've even posted on threads about how sh!te Blackburn are from time to time.

But are you saying what I said isn't true? I'd prefer if you'd address any issue you have with the point I made rather than the vendetta you think I have against your club.

Its a thread on the match. Am I not allowed to post my opinion on a match I watched last night? If I hadn't watched the match I wouldn't comment on it.

ps. check previous posts and you'll find I tipped 'Pool to finish second in the PL this season

segadreamcast

You do have a point: The honeymoon period is over. Liverpool really need to knuckle down and capitalise on the very real progress that they have made (in my opinion). Strikers are a problem. A huge problem. Benitez blaming the defence was (I hope) a bit of bluffing on his part...because the strikeforce is the key problem without any doubt.

If he gets his money, he'll stay. If Gerrard goes, we'll get money for him Lemlin - not as if we'll be left in the lurch after selling a player and then failing to buy adequate replacements (a la Beckham at Manchester United). You had a point, but you pushed it a fair bit with your predictions of doom and gloom at Liverpool - they are, ultimately, in the ascendancy and this was just a reality check for some fans and - for me - an expectation that was met.

el rabitos

So good you needed to post it twice?

To get to the point, I've often posted on Newcastle threads about how sh!te Newcastle were. Or on Man Utd threads about how sh!te United are. The difference is that their fans seem to be able to take some criticism, and not instantly jump to the conclusion that anyone who says a negative word against the side has a vendetta against them. In fact, I've even posted on threads about how sh!te Blackburn are from time to time.

But are you saying what I said isn't true? I'd prefer if you'd address any issue you have with the point I made rather than the vendetta you think I have against your club.

well thank god we have you around here to be critical of our favourate teams. who do you support again....blackburn? :rolleyes:

look back at my own posts, i'm well aware of whats wrong with liverpool and what they're limitations are right now. most liverpool fans that actively follow liverpool will see these things.

Its a thread on the match. Am I not allowed to post my opinion on a match I watched last night? If I hadn't watched the match I wouldn't comment on it.

ps. check previous posts and you'll find I tipped 'Pool to finish second in the PL this season

you didnt post on the match...u just ripped on liverpool. god bless u for thinking liverpool will finish second, we need your support.

Lemlin

NoelRock wrote:

You do have a point: The honeymoon period is over. Liverpool really need to knuckle down and capitalise on the very real progress that they have made (in my opinion). Strikers are a problem. A huge problem. Benitez blaming the defence was (I hope) a bit of bluffing on his part...because the strikeforce is the key problem without any doubt.

If he gets his money, he'll stay. If Gerrard goes, we'll get money for him Lemlin - not as if we'll be left in the lurch after selling a player and then failing to buy adequate replacements (a la Beckham at Manchester United). You had a point, but you pushed it a fair bit with your predictions of doom and gloom at Liverpool - they are, ultimately, in the ascendancy and this was just a reality check for some fans and - for me - an expectation that was met.

I'm not predicting doom and gloom at all. I was merely pointing out that before last night I had never even entertained the idea of Benitez leaving Anfield. Last night though he didn't look a happy man at all.

What I was saying that is if he does leaves, IMO Gerrard will go too. He's been close enough to walking out on the club before. He's the one truly world class player 'Pool have and just look at how failing to replace Keane has affected United. Gerrard would leave a similar void at Anfield, he's irreplaceable.

Lemlin

el rabitos wrote:

well thank god we have you around here to be critical of our favourate teams. who do you support again....blackburn? :rolleyes:

look back at my own posts, i'm well aware of whats wrong with liverpool are and what they're limitations are right now. most liverpool fans that actively follow liverpool will see these things.

you didnt post on the match...u just ripped on liverpool. god bless u for thinking liverpool will finish second, we need your support.

Here's my analysis of the match and the coverage (you seem to have missed it):

Dunphy was way over the top but watching his cliups was hilarious. Cisse really is a waste of space. Crouch and Morientes are just lucky he probably didn't have them time to start showing clips of them.

Liverpool were made look ordinary by a very ordinary European team. They opened up Benfica with little effort but couldn't score. Crouch being the main perpetrator.

How is that ripping into Liverpool? Are you denying that any of the points I've made above aren't fact? If you're willing to look I've pointed out that Liverpool could easily open up Benfica, their wasteful strikers just couldn't do anything with the service they were given.

segadreamcast

Lemlin wrote:

I'm not predicting doom and gloom at all. I was merely pointing out that before last night I had never even entertained the idea of Benitez leaving Anfield. Last night though he didn't look a happy man at all.

What I was saying that is if he does leaves, IMO Gerrard will go too. He's been close enough to walking out on the club before. He's the one truly world class player 'Pool have and just look at how failing to replace Keane has affected United. Gerrard would leave a similar void at Anfield, he's irreplaceable.

Mourinho didn't look happy either .

Lemlin

NoelRock wrote:

Mourinho didn't look happy either .

But if Mourinho asks for 100 million, he gets it. Benitez reportedly can't get 30 and, even if he does, with today's inflated prices, he'll be lucky if he gets two players of the calibre a club like Liverpool should be buying.

segadreamcast

Lemlin wrote:

Here's my analysis of the match and the coverage (you seem to have missed it):



How is that ripping into Liverpool? Are you denying that any of the points I've made above aren't fact? If you're willing to look I've pointed out that Liverpool could easily open up Benfica, their wasteful strikers just couldn't do anything with the service they were given.

You're right IMO. Christ, most Liverpool fans are (or should be) saying the same thing.

wheres me jumpa

Felt sorry for the Pool fans that were singing their hearts out at the end of the game. Supporters like that deserve better. However I was delighted that some players got found out.

Pool have done well of late and look a good team but there is still so much crap in their squad. Kewell, Garcia, Cisse, Crouch, Traore and even Fowler are not good enough.

smemon

el rabitos wrote:

last year was not a fluke. u dont fluke 3, 2 leg matches against top european teams.

25 shots to benfica's 7 was a rough guess at what the final stats were, so clearly your talking crap tbh.

theres alot of work to be done with the current squad, but rafa will be there, he wont be leaving before he runs up the 3 years left on this current contract.

so liverpool, the defending champions (supposedly BEST team in europe had over 30 shots over 2 legs against benfica and couldnt score, yet your telling me im talking crap!

seen as liverpool apart from baros, have the same side as last year, it was obviously a fluke as they couldnt repeat it, or even go close again this year. (they were also so poor they couldnt even qualify for it properly this year!) when madrid, milan etc.. win the champions league, they are favourites to retain it, liverpool weren't and that says it all.

granted, it was a remarkable achievemnet and fair fcuks to them as its not every day you turn over quality opposition. but they had luck and imo, they didnt have the class to win without the luck this year.

segadreamcast

smemon wrote:

so liverpool, the defending champions (supposedly BEST team in europe had over 30 shots over 2 legs against benfica and couldnt score, yet your telling me im talking crap!

seen as liverpool apart from baros, have the same side as last year, it was obviously a fluke as they couldnt repeat it, or even go close again this year. (they were also so poor they couldnt even qualify for it properly this year!) when madrid, milan etc.. win the champions league, they are favourites to retain it, liverpool weren't and that says it all.

granted, it was a remarkable achievemnet and fair fcuks to them as its not every day you turn over quality opposition. but they had luck and imo, they didnt have the class to win without the luck this year.

Getting past one quality team is luck. Getting past three to win a final is not luck though. It was an above average team playing to the very, very limit of their ability and a superb tactical manager overseeing it all with great precision. The final highlights this.

smemon

NoelRock wrote:

It was an above average team playing to the very, very limit of their ability

exactly, something they can't repeat. they don't have the standard of player to repeat the feat. 3-0 down at ht, you cant say there wasnt luck involved. sure, they needed belief but what about the luck? the dudek save that literally hit him on the line, peno.....

liverpool on any other day wouldnt have come back from 3-0 down, it was 1 in a million.

el rabitos

How is that ripping into Liverpool? Are you denying that any of the points I've made above aren't fact? If you're willing to look I've pointed out that Liverpool could easily open up Benfica, their wasteful strikers just couldn't do anything with the service they were given.

its ripping into liverpool beacuse your totally one sided. did you mention the ratio of possession liverpool had and shots on goal compared to benfica.

theres alot of poor players in that team, but they control 90% of the matches they're in these days. a reflection of what a great coach benitez is no doubt. liverpool's play in the final third of the pitch is ordinary. everything else is at a good level, but with better players in some positions, liverpool will be every bit as good as any of the other teams left in the competition.

how liverpool are going to get the players they need and how they are going to offload the wasters at the club is where we agree, because there is alot there to change.

Lemlin

el rabitos wrote:

its ripping into liverpool beacuse your totally one sided. did you mention the ratio of possession liverpool had and shots on goal compared to benfica.

theres alot of poor players in that team, but they control 90% of the matches they're in these days. a reflection of what a great coach benitez is no doubt. liverpool's play in the final third of the pitch is ordinary. everything else is at a good level, but with better players in some positions, liverpool will be every bit as good as any of the other teams left in the competition.

how liverpool are going to get the players they need and how they are going to offload the wasters at the club is where we agree, because there is alot there to change.

You're really trying to nitpick now. One sentence:

They opened up Benfica with little effort but couldn't score

Is that sentence not referring to the amount of possession they had and the amount of shots? Does it not show that I am saying Liverpool were a far more skillful team but could not put the ball in the net? The fact that a Liverpool supporter has backed my view strengthens it even more IMO.

Liverpool will need alot of improvement before they're as good as a Barca, Milan or Chelsea. Just look at Milan last night, they made bits of Bayern, a team that would beat Liverpool.

segadreamcast

smemon wrote:

exactly, something they can't repeat. they don't have the standard of player to repeat the feat. 3-0 down at ht, you cant say there wasnt luck involved. sure, they needed belief but what about the luck? the dudek save that literally hit him on the line, peno.....

liverpool on any other day wouldnt have come back from 3-0 down, it was 1 in a million.

A bit of luck was involved of course - many champions need luck, as has been stated and agreed time and time again here. Skill was present though too - or are you audacious enough to believe that three goals were racked up entirely on luck?

Incidentally, something they can't repeat instantly does not equal luck. Then United were lucky to win the Champions League? Arsenal were lucky to win the league...etc etc.

smemon

NoelRock wrote:

ASkill was present though too - or are you audacious enough to believe that three goals were racked up entirely on luck?

Incidentally, something they can't repeat instantly does not equal luck. Then United were lucky to win the Champions League? Arsenal were lucky to win the league...etc etc.

if liverpool have so much skill to score 3 times in 45mins less than 12 months ago with virtually the same personnel, how come they couldnt do it over 2 legs against benfica?

when utd won the CL and arsenal won the league, they were realistic challengers to retain those trophies and went furthur than liverpool did this year.

can you not see that winning the CL yet failing to qualify for it in the same year sort of proves it was a 1 in a million chance? liverpool are the 4th best side in england imo, anyone agree? never mind europe.