Commission endorses public funding to bridge broadband communications gap in Ireland

damien

http://europa.eu.int/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/06/284&type=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

State aid: Commission endorses public funding to bridge broadband communications gap in Ireland

The European Commission has authorised, under EC Treaty state aid rules, a programme to boost broadband availability in Ireland. Ireland is lagging behind most EU-15 Member States in broadband penetration. The Irish Government will create open-access Metropolitan Area Networks (“MANs”) in over 120 Irish towns at a cost of €170m, with support from EU structural funds. The Commission concluded that the aid was not likely to distort competition within the EU significantly.

Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes commented: “I am pleased to endorse this expansion of the Irish Metropolitan Area Network programme. The open networks will enable all operators to offer high-speed broadband services to businesses and citizens in the towns concerned. The project will boost competition in the area and is fully in line with the Commission’s policy to promote broadband in areas which would otherwise miss out.”

In partnership with the local authorities, the Irish Government decided to build open, carrier-neutral, fibre-optic networks (“Metropolitan Area Networks”) in over 120 towns where such infrastructure is not supplied by market players. The management and exploitation of the networks, which remain in public ownership, will be tendered out to a wholesale operator. This wholesale operator will then offer its services to telecommunications companies, who will provide high-speed electronic communications services to end users. This funding is for Phases II and III of the MANs programme. Phase I has already been completed with networks built in 26 towns.

In the EU-15, broadband take-up in Ireland ranks second lowest, just before Greece. In late 2005, only 5.3% of the population had broadband connections. A large part of the Irish population is located in the Greater Dublin area. In many smaller towns, infrastructure investments by telecommunications operators are limited due to the high construction cost and low likely return of investment. Furthermore, cable networks exist only in few Irish cities. Therefore, there is no competition on the infrastructure level in the towns targeted by the project.

EC Treaty state aid rules (Article 87(3)(c)) allow subsidies for the development of certain economic activities or of certain economic areas provided there is no overall negative effect on competition. The Metropolitan Area Networks project pursues a clear cohesion objective and is expected to be co-financed by EU structural funds. Moreover, the project is in line with Community priorities outlined in the eEurope 2005 Action Plan (see IP/04/626) and the i2010 initiative (see IP/05/643).

The Irish authorities have implemented a number of safeguards which will ensure that the scheme does not unduly distort competition. For example, the wholesale operator will be selected through an open tender and a revenue distribution mechanism will keep the aid amounts to a minimum.

And how many people have gotten broadband from MANs?

watty

WHATTTTT!

No more MANs

Well if the end users ever get universal connectivity there won't be a shortage of bandwidth across town.

What a waste.

It doesn't even do much for Internet backbone bandwidth in Ireland (The fibre down the railways does more for this.

How is it supposed to help individual users get connected?

eircomtribunal

watty wrote:

How is it supposed to help individual users get connected?

We mere mortals need to have more believe in what our minister has to say on the issue (from today's DCMNR press release):

The Minister added: "The MANs benefit service providers and end users alike."

P.

bk

The MAN's are actually a good idea, but there are only a piece of the puzzle.

- They need to be connected to the national backhaul (ESB, etc.).
- They need to be connected to the Eircom exchanges.
- The LLU process needs to be improved to make use of these.

I believe a large part of Digiweb's Metro, Magnet and Smart (and some of NTL's) networks run off the MAN's and ESB backhaul. They wouldn't be as widely possible without the MAN's.

Having said that, the MAN's on their own don't solve the problem, in particular LLU needs to be fixed.

dahamsta

“They are smoking crack.”
--Linus Torvalds

Sponge Bob

bk wrote:

The MAN's are actually a good idea, but there are only a piece of the puzzle.

- They need to be connected to the national backhaul (ESB, etc.).

They ONLY work where there is ESB fibre and an ESB Pop. Look at the Kiltimagh MAN , in the original 20 and stranded with no backhaul since it was built.

- They need to be connected to the Eircom exchanges.
- The LLU process needs to be improved to make use of these.

Same difference, they need to be connected to the Eircom exchanges IN ORDER that LLU has a chance of working.

I believe a large part of Digiweb's Metro, Magnet and Smart (and some of NTL's) networks run off the MAN's and ESB backhaul. They wouldn't be as widely possible without the MAN's.

They would be dead in the water , particularly without the ESB

Having said that, the MAN's on their own don't solve the problem, in particular LLU needs to be fixed.

The ESB Fibre needs to be extended to every town where a MAN is proposed or else the MAN proposals should be made contingent on the ESB being there (or close) already.

A tranche of 40 towns are scheduled for MAN deployments because of Decentralisation, one such is Clifden in Galway. The Nearest MAN is 50 miles away , the nearest ESB fibre a few miles further away again so how is the backhaul supposed to work for that one?????

We need a joined up network.

To get a joined up network we need joined up thinking.

The joined up thinking is quite evident in the Civil Service who wrote the Definitive Joined Up Report 4 Years Ago for Bertie . The great tragedy is that Bertie never rapped his minions knuckles in Cabinet or put a minister in sole charge of implementing this report ..even if only for a year. (para 55)

While its late in the day now its time we did implement that report in full and in as short a timeframe as possible. I would personally start with that fool Dick Roche who has done nothing since it was published....( see paras 58 59 and 60) .

As for Dempsey I would remind him that there is one shareholder in the ESB, on behalf of us all. His name is Noel Dempsey . Stranding 100 odd lumps of fibre around the country is not a strategy, its a waste.

watty

I still think a fibre MAN may make sense for London, Newyork, Dublin, but for smaller places what is it for? All you need the CIE/BT/Eircom/ESB fibres into the exchanges and put ADSL2 gear on the lines.

There is a about zero need for a MAN even in Cork or Limerick. 99% of the traffic is from the end points (user on phone pair or Wireless client) to some other place outside the city.

MANs would be nice icing in 5 or 10 years time or if we all had 100% UPTAKE (not availability) of Broadband.

Is there nobody can explain this stuff to our Government?


€170M would give over ONE THOUSAND areas EACH 2 to 15km coverage of 4Mbps Wireless Broadband. That is at least 600,000 users that can't get aDSL on Eircom.

I couldn't believe it when I did the sums...

The non-Eircom / non-Bitstream providers are using some tiny bits of MAN, but AFAIK far, far more reliant on ESB/BT/CIE/ Western Corridor fibre than MAN.

I don't think we should single out people by name though. They might get upset with us.

Sponge Bob

From

Ireland Offline spokesman Damien Mulley commented: “MANs are quite pointless when local loop unbundling (LLU) is still broken and when the MANs aren’t automatically connected to any kind of backbone. MANs can only work and be value for money when we have an LLU system that works and a proper backbone infrastructure.

Absolutely . Hopefully the next lot of ESB Fibre extensions are announced next week.

Now for the fun bit

Eircom commercial director David McRedmond told siliconrepublic.com: “We’re baffled as to why €170m of state aid is required in places where we already provide broadband. We provide it to 118 of the 120 towns listed for MANs. More than 85pc of lines in Ireland, bang on the European average, are connected to Eircom exchanges. The real deficit is the last 10 to 15pc of lines. It is not commercially viable for us to cover the last 10pc but the Government should do so because these areas can’t get broadband otherwise.

“We share the Government’s aims around broadband but we’ve done our job to get 85pc of lines connected — now they should change their plan and deal with where there is a deficit and where investment would be appropriate rather than duplicating existing assets,” McRedmond said.

But there is no comparison Dave is there. Businesses in large towns such as Cork and Limerick and Waterford and Galway can now get huge international pipes, previously available only in limited parts of Dublin , without bankrupting themselves .

Investment in MANs is highly appropriate , Investment in ESB fibre, available to all carriers , is highly appropriate.

Why don't you do what you implicity claim and fix the 85% of lines connected to your DSL enabled exchanges so that they can carry BB ....unlike today where 70% of that 85% of lines connected to enabled exchangesfail the test because of decrepitude thereby leaving Ireland with an effective 60% or so DSL coverage.

As for those really small 'uneconomic places' ever heard of Wireless???

Do you not have a Mobile network to build out there as well ???

jwt

Hmmm how about the wireless licences that the Oireachtas are REALLY pissed at you about. Or the LLU process that the Oireachtas Committee are REALLY pissed at you about. "almost total lack" I think was the key expression.

Oh and while were at it, tell Tommy McCabe to turn it down a notch, I thought one member of the committee was going to have an apoplectic fit. I don't think I've ever actually seen anyone turn from puce to ashen grey to white and back to puce so fast.


John

Sponge Bob

Tommy is irrelevant now since He, on Behalf of IBEC (who really should know better) called for a $5bn investment by the Taxpayer in our Communications Network in order to guarantee us all Satellite Broadband .

eircomtribunal

Enn gives note of the Indo's (inside knowledge?) opinion, that

Eircom may challenge a decision by the European Commission that a broadband network funded by the Government and the EU is not anti-competitive, reports the Irish Independent. EU sources confirmed on Thursday that the decision is open to legal challenge, and that Eircom is currently considering its position. Any such move would be made through the European Court of First Instance. The go-ahead for a challenge comes as the Government received permission from the EU to spend millions boosting broadband availability, as reported by ElectricNews.net on Thursday.

I think it's just PR noises in the direction of Babcock, whose publicly stated stance on LLU (LLU should not be implemented in Ireland by way of the Irish government not demanding it) is way off any knowledge of the EU stance and way off any knowledge of Ireland's obligation towards the EU policies in this matter.
P.

Sponge Bob

The Bulk of these 'new' Mans , 88 of Them were announced by Dermot Ahern in DECEMBER 2003 , its just that nothing was done while the EU deliberated. It may be that the EU only deliberated because Eircom asked them to deliberate !

I would love to know

Broadband Action PlanProposed Towns 
	Town	Population CSO 2002		
1	Cavan	6,098	45	Kilcock	2,740
2	Monaghan5,936	46	MuineBheag(Bagenalstown)	2,728
3	Newbridge16,739	47	Ballyshannon	2,715
4	Carrigaline11,191	48	Clara	2,704
5	Maynooth10,151	49	Kilrush	2,699
6	Cobh	9,811	50	Charleville	2,685
7	Skerries	9,149	51	Monasterevin	2,583
8	Tramore	8,305	52	Newtownmountkennedy	2,521
9	Midleton	7,957	53	Blessington	2,509
10	Longford	7,557	54	Rathcoole	2499
11	Youghal	6,597	55	Lusk	2,456
12	Nenagh	6,454	56	Tullow	2,417
13	Trim	5,894	57	Templemore	2,270
14	Kildare 	5,694	58	Boyle	2,205
15	Bettystown 5,597	59	Kinsealy-Drinan	2,110
16	Carrick On S 5,586	60	Duleek	2,173
17	Dunboyne 5,363	61	Castleisland	2,162
18	Buncrana 5,271	62	Athenry	2,154
19	Tipperary	4,964	63	Blarney	2,146
20	Fermoy	4,804	64	Claremorris	2,101
21	Passage W4,595	65	Skibbereen	2,000
22	Roscrea	4,578	66	Clones	1,947
23	Edenderry4,559	67	Enniskerry	1,904
24	Birr	4,436	68	Kenmare	1,844
25	Kells	4,421	69	Bundoran	1,842
26	Clane	4,417	70	Dingle	1,828
27	NewC Wst4,017	71	Rathangan	1,811
28	Loughrea	4,004	72	Castlerea	1,788
29	Portarlington4,001	73	Gort	1,776
30	Ardee	3,948	74	Dunmore East	1,750
31	Carrickmac3,832	75	Coothill	1,744
32	Donabate	3,854	76	Portrane	1,726
33	Ratoath	3,794	77	Oranmore	1,692
34	Ballybofey3,603	78	Abbeyfeale	1,683
35	Kinsale	3,554	79	Carndonagh	1,673
36	Mountmellick3,361	80	Bailieborough	1,660
37	Mitchelstown3,300	81	Kanturk	1,651
38	Bantry	3,150	82	Balinrobe	1,626
39	Dunshaughlin3,063	83	Thomastown	1,600
40	Castleblaney2,936	84	Banagher	1,553
41	Sallins	2,922	85	Athboy	1,538
42	Kilcoole	2,826	86	Dunmanway	1,532
43	Cahir	2,794	87	Prosperous	1,523
44	Cashel	2,770	88	Moate	1,520

The only thing they have in common is population in 2002 of between 1500 and 10000 and would include the bulk of towns in that size bracket in Ireland

Of course there are towns with larger populations that these that will not get a MAN, Dublin, Castlebar etc and there are missing towns between 1500 and 10k persons in size such as Westport in Mayo

Then there are decentralisation towns like Clifden and Furbo that did not have 1500 persons in 2002 but are earmarked for Decentralised Civil servants. And are not in the 88 listed above but ARE in the 120 .

No MANs are being put into Gateway Towns as designated in the National Spatial Strategy , that maybe explains why Tuam is not on any list despite its size , its not getting Civil Servants but is designated in the National Spacer Strategy all right.

The hilarously named Broadband Action Plan 2003 (nothing done 2004 or 2005) + Decentralisation + Biddy O Rourkes 19 MANS before she lost her seat in 2002 is where the list of 120 proposed MANS comes from.

eircomtribunal

Sponge Bob wrote:

The hilarously named Broadband Action Plan 2003 (nothing done 2004 or 2005) + Decentralisation + Biddy O Rourkes 19 MANS before she lost her seat in 2002 is where the list of 120 proposed MANS comes from.

And don't forget one thing in the "ingenious" planning of the MANs national infrastructure: Who got a MAN depended on which County Council applied for the MAN. That's what our national planning boils down to, to the wisdom of the county councillors. And I am not saying that in a sneering mode – just it ain't fair to our county councillors and to our national broadband infrastructure to go by this method.

Now, that the EU has (again) given the general green light to this form of government intervention in our broadband infrastructure, it would be time to re-evaluate and re-analyse the MAN's project – with the wisdom of knowledge, which we didn't have a few years back.
Like: What about integration of all future MAN's with the existing incumbent's telephone exchanges, so that LLU can come to its intended fruition?
What about modifying MAN's to fibre to the curb and fibre to the premises models?
What about looking at independent backhaul connection before the MAN is built?
What about finding an answer to the still unanswered question, what a MAN can do for a place like Kiltimagh, can ever be expected to do, before similar projects are done in the same way?
(And the answer "Because we got the grant and have completed the project on time and on budget should not be acceptable.")
P.

oscarBravo

Honest Dave wrote:

It is not commercially viable for us to cover the last 10pc but the Government should do so because these areas can’t get broadband otherwise.

...unless, of course, someone else goes to the trouble of trying to fill in the Eircom deficit, in which case there's a spontaneous change in the laws of economics and the last 10% suddenly becomes commercially viable.

Call me cynical, but does anyone really believe Ballyvary exchange would have been enabled in the absence of competition?

thegills

What about integration of all future MAN's with the existing incumbent's telephone exchanges, so that LLU can come to its intended fruition?
All MAN's are designed to pass by the eircom exchanges. The problems are that eircom keep changing the location of the interconnect chambers and eircom don't have a regulated product that allows 3rd party fibre into their exchanges
What about modifying MAN's to fibre to the curb and fibre to the premises models?
This is too expensive. An alternative would be to integrate e-net managed high sites / masts into the MAN design. Wireless broadband coupled with LLU should satisfy residential needs
Fibre to the premises is just too hard to rollout as it takes an eternity to ascertain ownership of land or buildings and then get a way leave. This would severly hinder the ability to rollout the MAN
What about looking at independent backhaul connection before the MAN is built?
There is enough backhaul available in the Country to connect every MAN. Between RTE, ESB networks (State owned assets), WDC, Aurora, etc. there is enough reach. It all goes back to joined up thinking and how motivated the DCMNR are to get all these providers to play ball
What about finding an answer to the still unanswered question, what a MAN can do for a place like Kiltimagh, can ever be expected to do, before similar projects are done in the same way?
There are a number of potential MAN customers in Manorhamilton. ADSL is no use for them and business quality wireless isn't either. If the backhaul was sorted there are a number of customers that would use the MAN

Sponge Bob

Its also time to give eNet or the 'currently contracted' operator of a given MAN the same Easementss that Eircom has going right back to the Victorian Telegraphy Acts or else add eNet to schedule and ensure that fibre is added to the Victorian schedule of Telegraph Apparatususeeens to which the Act applies. Level playing field and all that what what !!!!

Is there not a convenient Comms Bill 2006 yoke a wuffing and a puffing thru Noels Dept as we speak

watty

Eircom commercial director David McRedmond told siliconrepublic.com: “We’re baffled as to why €170m of state aid is required in places where we already provide broadband. We provide it to 118 of the 120 towns listed for MANs. More than 85pc of lines in Ireland, bang on the European average, are connected to Eircom exchanges. The real deficit is the last 10 to 15pc of lines. It is not commercially viable for us to cover the last 10pc but the Government should do so because these areas can’t get broadband otherwise.

What about 3.5GHz national FWA that Eircom is sitting on. Chorus did LOTS more with their Wireless phone licence and lost it for not rolling out enough.

Take Eircom's FWA off them and sell licence Cheap to Smart, Magnet, Digiweb , BT or even IBB. Someone prepared to actually use it for those "uneconomic" 15% (probabily really 30%). BT reckons to make profit in 6 months after users are all on-line with that kind of "uneconomic" market.

eircomtribunal

thegills wrote:

What about integration of all future MAN's with the existing incumbent's telephone exchanges, so that LLU can come to its intended fruition?
All MAN's are designed to pass by the eircom exchanges. The problems are that eircom keep changing the location of the interconnect chambers and eircom don't have a regulated product that allows 3rd party fibre into their exchanges

If that problem (and the problem of functional LLU automatisation/transfer), wilfully created by Eircom, is not solved, then – and that's exactly what's happening – the cost-benefit equation of the MANs is seriously jinxxed. "DCMNR, we have a problem! And we don't want to be bull****ted about it."
It's mostly civil servants that produce such unbearable nonsense. (And I say that with my own civil servant background and with the confidence that the ones doing an excellent job under whatever circumstances are not offended). They'd send up a crew to a moon mission. The astronauts would never be able to leave the landed capsule, because of a "problem" with the company that refused to design a functional exit ladder, but the civil servants would not stop telling the public: "We are getting wonderful photographs through the capsule's windows and the mission is fully on time and on budget", keeping very quiet about the fact that the mission is not on target.

The MANs project is not quite the surgeons case of "operation was immensely successful; the patient unfortunately died" – but its severe limitations should not any longer be pasted over, as has been done up to now.
No government with any self-respect should continue the cat and mouse game Eircom's dirty bunch of managers has chosen to play. eircom may well "not have a regulated product that allows 3rd party fibre into their exchanges", but that should be irrelevant. Gov (and not the Comms Minister on his own) has to have the authority and the guts to call in the bunch and let them know in no uncertain terms that they better stop the fooling around. And the Babcockians at the gate should be told the same in no uncertain terms in a timely manner.

What about modifying MAN's to fibre to the curb and fibre to the premises models?
This is too expensive. An alternative would be to integrate e-net managed high sites / masts into the MAN design. Wireless broadband coupled with LLU should satisfy residential needs
Fibre to the premises is just too hard to rollout as it takes an eternity to ascertain ownership of land or buildings and then get a way leave. This would severly hinder the ability to rollout the MAN

What does it say about a gov.?: We know that other countries are engaging now in starting their fibre to the home/curb networks; we know that we should not again be left behind, but its just not feasible how we could do it; we won't even give it a try with one of the new MANs projects in order to get to know what the real and practical experiences with this matter are; we rather finish all the MAN projects on time, close the eyes and get trough with them, let's not think about them not being on target in some/most/all of the smaller places.

Spongebobs suggestion about giving access is one obvious practical solution to implement.
I wonder, how the hell did we ever get electricity, telephone and cable to houses?

What about finding an answer to the still unanswered question, what a MAN can do for a place like Kiltimagh, can ever be expected to do, before similar projects are done in the same way?
There are a number of potential MAN customers in Manorhamilton. ADSL is no use for them and business quality wireless isn't either. If the backhaul was sorted there are a number of customers that would use the MAN

(I don't mind you mistaking Kiltimagh for another place.) My point is: A lot of money is spent on each of the MANs. In the smaller places like Kiltimagh in Mayo, and many of the smaller places which are planned, I can't see a proper cost-benefit equation being established by the DCMNR.
Take Kiltimagh: There is one company, as far as I know, CMS peripherals, which employs some 23 people, that could one day eventually benefit from the MAN. I don't think they use it or really need it. And even if they did: What's the fibre cable doing meandering through the town in figures of eight? What was it meant to do? I believe Mayo's County Councillors who applied for this MAN, and the DCMNR and the professional planners of the MAN don't have a clue what they are doing. They have got the money and they lay the fibre. Fullstop. And please do not ask questions what this is all about, when we've told you our answer already a hundred times: the MANs are about bringing broadband to the people of Ireland (and not so long ago we'd have added: so that Ireland can be the first country in Europe to have widespread 5 Mb/s broadband...)

Sponge, you are in favour of the MANs (And I can see your point, to a point, with bigger towns with enough businesses and telcos to backhaul-connect in alternative ways to Eircom). Can you give me an answer to that question: What can the fibre loops meandering through small towns like Kiltimagh do for the people of Kiltimagh? (Even if the backhaul situation is put in place).
I've asked County Councillors, I have asked DCMNR guys, I've talked to E-Net guys, I have talked to people in the know about Metropolitan Area Networks in other countries. They could not give an answer. If you, SpongeBob, cannot suggest practical ways how these fibre loops in smaller towns can be put to use, then I believe that this is a waste of money, time and effort and should be reconsidered.

P.

Sponge Bob

Dr Phil is parroting the eircom party line in the Times today.

At this gig he said

1. Same as Honest Dave , Eircom provides BB in 118 of the 120 towns already

(The Clifden, Furbo and Carndonagh exchanges are not DSL enabled so thats a lie anyway, I stopped counting after that)

2. It is doomed to failure

(Its making a difference already )

3. It will make no difference

(we won't let it near our exchanges so nyah boo to LLU )

4. and why cant we be like Germany or NZ who are not enthusiastic about LLU)

(Germany has more or less universal DSL in all exchanges and no distance problems)

5. Our only crime is that we started our rollout after all the rest of the developed world

(we are still doing our damndest to protect dial up revenue at all costs)

6. There is no link between economic development and BB availability

(the fairy was not visible at that point in the speech , it was hiding in Phils bouffant hairdo )

7. DSL and Wireless together may be the answer to the states BB needs.

(we will still squat as much spectrum as possible because Comreg will let is and we will try to bilk the exchequer for as much $£$£ as possible before we actually comply with our licence )

Do I detect a smidge of Fear Phil ??

viking

Full Article:

State broadband plan will have no impact - Eircom
Barry O'Halloran

Eircom boss Philip Nolan said yesterday the Government's plan to spend €170 million on broadband networks would make no difference to the numbers of people taking the service.

The EU this week approved the plan which will see the State spending €170 million on developing broadband networks in 120 towns around the Republic. These will be known as metropolitan area networks (MANs).
ADVERTISEMENT

The Government had to get backing for the plan as otherwise it could be an illegal state aid under EU law.

Addressing a Leinster Society of Chartered Accountants lunch in Dublin, Mr Nolan said that the EU has approved the plan on the basis that state investment in broadband was appropriate to deliver it in areas that would otherwise miss out.

"We would just like to point out that of the 120 towns, we provide it in 118," he said.

There is ongoing concern about broadband penetration and take-up, which is seen as vital to the State's economic development.

Mr Nolan conceded that the Republic was behind the EU, but said that this was because we began rolling out the high-speed internet and telecommunications network after many other states.

He called for a radical shake-up in the approach to developing the infrastructure for the new technology.

Mr Nolan said that in common with the rest of Europe, the State had adopted an approach that involved getting the incumbent - in this case Eircom - to open up the link between its exchanges and customers' homes and businesses to competition.

This connection is known as the "local loop" or the "last mile". He told the gathering that in the US and New Zealand, regulators had taken the approach of not forcing incumbent players to do this, on condition that they reinvested in their networks with the aim of developing broadband.

He said that EU countries were now looking at this approach. "It's interesting that Germany has already broken ranks on this," he said.

Mr Nolan also argued that the type of broadband was also relevant. He said that there was a big difference between a combined development of digital subscriber lines (DSL) and wireless broadband to cover most of the State, which was feasible, and a €4 billion investment in new fibre-optic lines to cover the country.

He also rejected that the link between economic development and broadband roll-out was as strong as many argued, and said that businesses already had good access to broadband.

© The Irish Times

Sponge Bob

But his biggest shareholder will give him more share options

jman

If this Government was serious about "encouraging" broadband roll out they would force a line rental charge reduction for all residential lines that are not DSL enabled (but DSL capable). This would soon encourage Eircom to "upgrade" their network.

When was the last time time you booked/rented a car, but were given a moped, told you had to share it with the guy next to you and were charged full rental rates.

People who cannot get broadband (within the limits), because their lines are split or otherwise messed up should not be paying full whack. It would not be allowed in any other industry.

I am sure that there are tons of suggestions as to how to spend 170m to bring
broadband to all. Maybe MANs are the way, maybe not, maybe the money would be better spend on better FWA coverage, masts etc, maybe a mix of both ... whatever.

I'd hope though that an injection of 170m would encourage more competition and realistic, price competitive alternatives for customers. Right now we're being taken for a ride ...

When enquiring about DSL this week, I was told by an Eircom rep, "Eircom can do nothing for you, have you tried Irish Broadband ?" ...... And this is in one of the so called areas (Furbo) that Dr Phil claims they have coverage.

watty

There is a company with FWA national licence and it is a secret product not sold to hardly anyone, and when it is, it is at a shocking price.

We don't need then MANs we have much less any more.

bminish

watty wrote:

There is a company with FWA national licence and it is a secret product not sold to hardly anyone, and when it is, it is at a shocking price.

Last time I heard anything about it, it was 512 Kbs down 64 Kbs Up at 45 euro per month (this is ex vat I believe)
Installation was 605 Euro Plus vat
on some sites they are using an Omidirectinal antenna and have a usable range of about 5Km

I did hear that the incumbent is conducting secret trials of pre-wimax kit on 3.5 Ghz, My mole though somewhere near letterkenny was one trial area

.brendan

watty

They could charge 10Euro and make a good profit. Mostly if you have a phone line they won't install it.

I can't imagine anyone on Dialup that wouldn't be delighted to get this, but I believe it is hard to get.

bminish

watty wrote:

... but I believe it is hard to get.

Oh, yes it's hard to get and extraordinarily limited in range due to very poor RF engineering at the base station end.
You would almost get the idea that this product was only to keep comreg happy .. but of course that would be a daft notion on my part

.brendan

eircomtribunal

bminish wrote:

You would almost get the idea that this product was only to keep comreg happy .. but of course that would be a daft notion on my part

and surely not be accepted by the regulator for any length of time..
P.