A mess of Ideas?

larryone

In a PM discussion with someone else on this board, I posted a sort of a synopsis of my beliefs. I sometimes find it difficult to catagorise my beliefs. In some ways I am a Christian, in some ways a Muslim, in some ways a pagan. I mentioned Mohandas Gandhi in my ramble (which took me alot longer to write that it'll take you to read) One quote from him that I really like is "I am a Hindu, and a Christian, and a Muslim, and a Buddhist, and a Jew". In some ways I feel like pantheism is the answer to all of the contradictions people see in this statement. I was raised Christian, more specifically Catholic. But I could never understand how one group could claim with such fervour that theirs is the only religion that God Almighty approves of.
"We believe in one Church... We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins"
"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, Never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost."(Qur'an 3:85)

I would like to take on Gandhi's idea, but extend it slightly.

"I am a Hindu, and a Christian, and a Muslim, and a Buddhist, and a Jew, and a Pagan"

The quote below describes my belief more in terms of how it relates to Jesus Christ, but it also elaborates a bit on what I believe God is. I half feel like posting this on the Islam and Pagan forums here, but since this is written more in terms of the "Christian" aspects of my faith, I'll put it here initially. Fell free to comment, ridicule, criticise, praise, or otherwise. This is what I believe:

ok, sorry if I seemed to be overly touchy with regard to this... stressful times, etc...

I suppose trying to explain what I believe a bit better might help.

I dont believe in Jesus as being just an average run of the mill character from judea with some wacky ideas. I dont believe that Jesus is the one and only son of God. I do believe that Jesus Christ was A son of God. I do believe that Jesus was sent to us from God as one who would bring us closer to understanding God, and each other. I believe that we all come from God, and that we all will return to God. I believe that Jesus had more of an understanding of God and our relationship with God than anyone who came before him, and possibly anyone who has walked the earth since.
I am in many ways a pantheist. I believe that everything in exixtance is a part of God. This leads me to the contravercial idea that God is the good and the evil, and the balance in-between. This is an idea I have been struggling with over the past number of years, and so one that I would not apply the word belief to - at least not for me anyway.
I've started rambling, this often happens, sorry.

I do believe that God has a purpose and a mission, but I dont think that God is too concerned with the fate and actions of individuals here on earth. I think that Gods concern is to learn more about the orderly harmony of existance. To learn more about God itself. I believe that this learning process is one of experience. I believe we as (dare I say it) incarnations of spirits that are a part of God contribute to this experience through living our earthly lives. We live these lives in ignorance, but with some desire to understand. This desire to understand leads me to think that there is more good than there is evil. I do also believe in a manevolant force, which I also believe is part of God. I believe that "Satan" is a part of God. I'm starting to get very philosophical here. Good and evil can only be measured against each other. The porpose of existnace (the pantheistic deity) is to understand the balance between them, the desire to strive towards this understanding is a power of good, hence there is more good in the universe. Now I'm starting to repeat myself.

I've also gone way off topic.
Back to Jesus. What makes us different from Jesus is that we all have good and evil in us. In our souls. Jesus had no evil in his soul. Jesus did understand evil, but only as a polar opposite. I believe that Jesus was closer to God than any of us. A part of God, but not an equivalent to God. I do believe that God gave Christ to the world as a gift.

I also believe that there have been many before and since Jesus that have come closer than most to an understanding of God. I believe that Muhammad was one of these. Another was Buddah. I think that Mohandas Gandhi wasnt far off it either. Do I believe that there have been none greater than Jesus Christ? I really dont know yet. I havent prayed enough.

I dont think that study of the bible will bring me too much closer to understanding. I dont believe that Gods best way of communicating with us is through words. I believe that God is revealed to us through slight details, feelings, experiences.

Are you starting to see my point of view a bit more clearly? I hope now that you have a deeper understanding of what I think about Christ.
Do you now also understand more my difficulty in understanding how I would relate to the word Christianity and how it might apply to me???

(a sentence or two have been removed from this qoute as they apply only to the PM conversation)

Asiaprod

Larryone wrote:

Do you now also understand more my difficulty in understanding how I would relate to the word Christianity and how it might apply to me???

Very much so. You are obviously on a very deep search for meaning. I can see all kinds of threads within your ideas, and they are very jumbled at present. The piece that would cause me the most concern is the following passage:

I do believe that God has a purpose and a mission, but I dont think that God is too concerned with the fate and actions of individuals here on earth. I think that Gods concern is to learn more about the orderly harmony of existance. To learn more about God itself

Now at the sake of Excelsior exploding hot Java all over the table and getting more pissed with me than he already is:) , I tend to feel that these concepts are what put you at odds with mainstream Christianity. At first this passage spoke to me of Agnosticism, then Buddhism, then Hinduism, and then more and more beliefs from other belief systems, so I also got confused.
I am not sure that the God of Christianity needs to learn more about himself, dose`nt he already know everything about everything being omni-something (cant remember the word).

I would honestly say that the key to your puzzle probably lies in making a firm commitment to yourself as to what exactly your God, including the association of JC and the Holy Pale One, is to you. I would think all the other answers will spring from there once you have established that fact solidly in your life. You need to drive this stake firmly into the ground before you can clear up the other stuff, which should fall more easily into place.I guess what I am trying to say is it is almost as if you are a tourist planning to visit all these wonderful places in Ireland that you are interested in, but it is impossible to plan your itinerary as you have not yet selected your starting point. You need to determine that starting point first to have a successful and rewarding trip.
Good luck in your quest.

larryone

I'm not really sure if i need a starting point. But I do know where I want to go and that is towards more understandign and deeper understanding. Any of the "starting points" I've seen so far are way too restrictive for me. The only stating point that I found that would allow me to explore all aspects of my faith and spirituality is pantheism, which isnt really much of a starting <point> so much as it is a starting <> cant even find the words...... volume? it's far too broad to call it a point.
But maybe that is what I'm looking for.


I know alot of the ideas I have put me at odds with mainstream Christianity, but similarly they put me at odds with any Abrahamic faith, and most other major religions. For a while, I used the label pagan to describe myself, as it seemed to be the only community that would accept such diverse ideas. then i started to meet more and more pagans that were as much up their own arses as most of the hardline christians and muslims I met.


I'm starting to rant again.
I think I need a nap.

I might come back to this tomorrow.

Asiaprod

larryone wrote:

I'm starting to rant again.
I think I need a nap.

I might come back to this tomorrow.

Well, see if you can come back with one thing that you believe in 100% and have absolute faith in. That could be a good point from which to build.
Have a good sleep, if its any consolation, I would say most of us here have been where you are at now. It usually just takes one key piece to fall into place to see the whole picture begin to unfold.

larryone

100% faith in something?
I have 100% faith that God exists, and that God equivals existance.

larryone

I dont really think my beliefs lack clarity. They lack a label. And maybe that's a good thing.

John Doe

Your beliefs are very close to mine, when I'm feeling hopeful. At the moment I'm not, so I believe in nothing. I'm at a really low point. I know it's pathetic only to believe when one is hopeful/happy, but that just fills me with more self-loathing. Blurgh.