Management companies?

I bought a townhouse in a terrace style estate last year. Finished building in November, and when I paid the final amount I got hit for a quarterly charge for a management company. To be honest, I didn't think too much of it at the time, as this is my first house, and I was so glad everything was finished. (well nothing was finished except for the sale that is :rolleyes: )

However, I've been thinking about this management company, and my own rights as a owner. How much control does this management company have over my property?

Anyone know any sites or such that show what my rights are in regards to the property and what the management company has control over by law?

I paid the fee in end of November and I have another fee due soon. The only work being done is what the builder has left to do himself, as part of his contract for the estate. So what have I paid my money for, if nothing is being done in the estate?

I'm also freaked out by having someone capable of telling me what to do with my own home. Probably being paranoid. I dont have any problems now, but forewarned is forearmed.

Captain Trips

Management companies are the Great Modern Irish Property Scam.

They are like leasehold agreements come back in a different form. Join your local developments board of management, as you are entitled to, and find out what's going on. Chances are, they expect most people to just pay and not ask. Look for receipts, everything and put yourself in charge.

Thanks Bud, will look into this. Thanks.

Cantab.

Deleted User wrote:

I bought a townhouse in a terrace style estate last year. Finished building in November, and when I paid the final amount I got hit for a quarterly charge for a management company. To be honest, I didn't think too much of it at the time, as this is my first house, and I was so glad everything was finished. (well nothing was finished except for the sale that is :rolleyes: )

However, I've been thinking about this management company, and my own rights as a owner. How much control does this management company have over my property?

Anyone know any sites or such that show what my rights are in regards to the property and what the management company has control over by law?

I paid the fee in end of November and I have another fee due soon. The only work being done is what the builder has left to do himself, as part of his contract for the estate. So what have I paid my money for, if nothing is being done in the estate?

I'm also freaked out by having someone capable of telling me what to do with my own home. Probably being paranoid. I dont have any problems now, but forewarned is forearmed.

Whilst you might 'own' your property outright, you are still liable for any property management fees that you signed up to. Moral of the story: read the small print before handing over the cash.

The whole property management industry is under Oireachtas investigation at the moment with a new bill to be enacted any year now: no doubt the vested interests will be accomodated before Joe Soap Mr. Housing Estate Generic...

You'll probably find that the builder who built your development still holds a number of properties that are rented out. He would still maintain his voting rights on the committee for a number of properties and therefore has a weighted vote over Joe Soap Mr. Housing Esate Generic...

Fact of modern Irish life I'm afraid.

Buyer beware.

MorningStar

Cantab. wrote:

The whole property management industry is under Oireachtas investigation at the moment with a new bill to be enacted any year now: no doubt the vested interests will be accomodated before Joe Soap Mr. Housing Estate Generic...

.

In fairness they are investigating the councils refusing to take over the management as normal causing the long term creation of management companies.
I don't have any love of managem,ent companies but they are esential for apartments as a rule of thumb. Smaller blocks can get away without them.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote:

Anyone know any sites or such that show what my rights are in regards to the property and what the management company has control over by law?

I paid the fee in end of November and I have another fee due soon. The only work being done is what the builder has left to do himself, as part of his contract for the estate. So what have I paid my money for, if nothing is being done in the estate?

Tip. Read the contracts, the legally binding documents you signed up to. They will refer you to the booklet of title. In turn that will contain the full details of the management company, including the memo and articles for the company, the replies to requisitions about management companies, and the contract between the developer and the management company for the sale of the common areas. It's all there for you, in black and white. The time for wondering whether you can withhold money is long gone. By all means try, and the management company can sue you and should. By all means tell everyone to stop paying, have the company struck off for failure to file returns, and then try and sell your house to someone who has a solicitor telling them not to touch a place where the management company is gone. Although I appreciate that there is a planning argument ie. that local authorities have used the management company to pass the buck for expenses, it could really screw up your title if there is a problem with the company.

JimmySmith

Deleted User wrote:

I'm also freaked out by having someone capable of telling me what to do with my own home. Probably being paranoid. I dont have any problems now, but forewarned is forearmed.

You might change your mind when youre next door neighbour decides to paint their house in the celtic colours
I hate management companies too but in some cases thay are a necessary evil.

babaduck

If you are in a development with a management company in place, please don't shoot the builder - it's the feckin' Local Authority who force us to implement them as a condition of planning because they do not want to take the estate in charge.

You should remember that your management fee covers at least the following (well it does in our apartment developments)

* Grounds landscaping
* Public lighting
* Lighting to common areas
* External window cleaning (annually)
* Lift maintenance
* Phone line bill for said lift
* maintenance of underground car park
* Refuse removal
* Buildings insurance cover
* Maintenance
* Cleaning of common areas

Tot up how much you would pay for each service if you owned a private house - I can guarantee you that it is more than your annual fee!!!

Sponge Bob

They are a necessary evil for apartment owners but should be abolished after 5 years on housing estates which should be taken in charge by then.

In some cases they are simply a scam for the builder.

Victor

If a coucnil takes over an estate, you loose a lot of rights, the grounds are no longer private, the gates will probably come down and you will need someone to insure the building and do internal maintainence anyway.

* Grounds landscaping - most councils will only do grass a few times a year and shrubs / trees every few years
* Public lighting - fair enough
* Lighting to common areas - not the councils job
* External window cleaning (annually) - not the councils job
* Lift maintenance - not the councils job
* Phone line bill for said lift - not the councils job
* maintenance of underground car park - not the councils job
* Refuse removal - the council will charge anyway
* Buildings insurance cover - not the councils job
* Maintenance - not the councils job
* Cleaning of common areas - not the councils job

mel123

i think it depends on how much they are charging you as well. i pay 1100 per year. i am in a duplex apartment. as far as i know either way i have to get block insurance by law (i could be wrong here if anyone wants to correct me). this have been told will cost me a fair bit anyway. my bin charges are also included in this price. i reckon i would pay about 300 a year on bins as it is. whats left out of the 1100 i have to say i am happy with what the money is being spent on. my estate is kept imaculate, there is a maintaince guy going around 5 days a week 9-5. my windows get cleaned twice a year. the green areas and plants, playgrounds etc etc are kept really really nice. if the price goes up i wil be asking questions,but at the moment i think im doing ok. in ur case you are saying the management are doing absolutely nothing - is the grass being cut, plants cared for etc etc? if NOTHING is being done, i simply wouldnt pay.

is_that_so

We run our own management copmany but this is thanks to the foresight of the original builders. As our complex also contains apartments the existence of the company makes sense.

Anyone who owns property has an input and you can demand receipts as posted.
If you think you can (assuming you can get enough people of like mind) and believe you need to, dump the present company and either form your own or get an alternative company.

TBH some companies are very good but many are not. We do our best. :rolleyes:

MorningStar

mel123 wrote:

my bin charges are also included in this price. i reckon i would pay about 300 a year on bins as it is.

How many people live in your place? JUst because you don't pay directly for your waste you should try reducing it.

Can I also point out that if you stop paying your fee they only people you are hurting is the residents including yourself. If you don't pay the company is obliged to chase you for the money which extra cost is added to their costs whcih you and everybody else pays. THe company will eventually fold as that goes on. Your insurance is dependent on the fees so if anybody hurts tehmselves in the appartment block I think you are all liable and that is not to forget the toruble if there was a fire.

Borzoi

MorningStar wrote:

. If you don't pay the company is obliged to chase you for the money which extra cost is added to their costs whcih you and everybody else pays. THe company will eventually fold as that goes on. .

Thaat may be case in some places, but where I live, any additional costs including solicitors fees incurred cahsing the debts are simply added to the delinquent account - no one has got away with it to date (5 years in)

babaduck

I can tell you that we instruct the solicitor to take legal action against any owner/landlord who fails to pay up, and to date, there's less than 10% who owe money from last year's a/c's,, due to this policy.

I also keep a close eye on resellers and flag them so they're paid in full before they sell up....

mel123

MorningStar wrote:

How many people live in your place? JUst because you don't pay directly for your waste you should try reducing it.

Calm down a second, i never said anything about recycling or not recycling so not sure why that just came out of the blue.

MorningStar wrote:

Can I also point out that if you stop paying your fee they only people you are hurting is the residents including yourself. If you don't pay the company is obliged to chase you for the money which extra cost is added to their costs whcih you and everybody else pays.

So are u saying you would pay for something for which you are getting nothing in return? I think not. If i pay almost 1100, and some of that money is to go towards maintaining the garden areas, keeping the lights on, communal areas tidy, then i expect it to be done for gods sake.

mel123

mel123 wrote:

So are u saying you would pay for something for which you are getting nothing in return? I think not. If i pay almost 1100, and some of that money is to go towards maintaining the garden areas, keeping the lights on, communal areas tidy, then i expect it to be done for gods sake.

True. But if it's not being done, the wrong thing to do is to withhold payment.

The correct thing to do is to read up the company documentation (it's on your Solicitor's file) and find out the procedure for calling an EGM or seeking the removal of Director's who ar not doing their job, and possibly going in as one yourself.

Remember too that that portoin of the annual monies that is not being sen should be going towards a sinking fund, and that much of the monies you pay will go towards matters you will never see, such as lighting, insurance (the most important service the company provides, because it keeps you indemnified against claims), and accountancy fees to file the returns that keep the company in existence...

MorningStar

mel123 wrote:

Calm down a second, i never said anything about recycling or not recycling so not sure why that just came out of the blue.

I just asked a question and made a suggestion. THe amount you think you would be paying is very high which suggests a large amount of waste.

mel123 wrote:

So are u saying you would pay for something for which you are getting nothing in return? I think not. If i pay almost 1100, and some of that money is to go towards maintaining the garden areas, keeping the lights on, communal areas tidy, then i expect it to be done for gods sake.

AS said you are getting something you just don't think it is worth it. Insurance is not free either is electricity so you are getting something. Non-payment is the equviilant of stealing from a shop becasue you think they charge too much.

borzoi wrote:

Thaat may be case in some places, but where I live, any additional costs including solicitors fees incurred cahsing the debts are simply added to the delinquent account - no one has got away with it to date (5 years in)

THe problem is when the number of people not paying is large portion. The insurance still has to be paid and if those paying haven't paid who is going to pay. I think the management companies are more likely to pay the people doing work rather than the insurance company.

THere are many blocks around Dublin that have no insurance and no management company now due to people not paying. Dislike them all you like but they are neccessary, are you going to make sure all the jobs are done yourself