Geo thermal heating

gabd

Hi there! Building a new two storey 2200sq block house, thinking of going for the geo thermal heating. Received two quotes already one for €18,000 (DX) the other for €20,000 (standard) both supplied and fitted (is this a good price?). Can anybody throw some light on a few questions I have!

1. Is there adequate heat in the house all day long?
2. How hot is the water? Should I install electric showers?
4. Can solar panels be used along with the geo thermal?
5. What type of floor covering is best suited to the geo thermal?

Evergreen

From what I have hear EUR 20,000 is around the normal price for a normal sized 2 storey. Be careful that the reps size the heat load of your house correctly, the last thing that you need is to have an underpowered heating system for your house becuase it will mean the geo has to rely on backup heating which costs a heck of a lot more to run.

If you need an independent heat load calculation down on your house just let me know and I would be happy to do it for free

newbuild

Hi,

I am looking into the same thing.
Seems like there is a lot of cowboys out there doing it.
Also a lot of diff reports about its running cost which vary conciderably.
Is it worth the initial investment.

so do I take the 2000 EUR hit each year on oil or the huge 18000 Hit now.

Any advice appreciated.

sas

newbuild wrote:

so do I take the 2000 EUR hit each year on oil or the huge 18000 Hit now.
QUOTE]

It's been pointed out a few times that its not even that simple.

It's 2000 a year + cost of oil burner installation
vs
18000 now + Electriticity for the GEO per year

Also, if you don't pay the 18000 in cash you have to factor in interest on the loan.

We can expect oil prices to rise as will the price of electricity so that makes it trickier still.

Furthermore you have to assume the HeatPump unit (not sure exactly of the term here) won't last forever. You may end up having to replace it before you have even paid back the 18000 if you are borrowing it in a mortgage.

This is what I've been weighing up. Instead of oil though I've been trying to compare GEO against Wood Pellet burners.

I feel oil will just get more costly as time goes on.

qazxsw

seems to me that this forum is degenerating into a billboard for some people, and not just limited to this thread...

yop

20k normal price, lads where are you getting this from?

We have a 2100 sq ft dormer and we paid 12.5k euro for our including the 500 litre rapid recovery cylinder. The Brine system are a good bit cheaper, cheapest quote I got was 8k euro.
So I would be seriously questioning what they are supplying and also shop around.

iplogger1

yop wrote:

20k normal price, lads where are you getting this from?

We have a 2100 sq ft dormer and we paid 12.5k euro for our including the 500 litre rapid recovery cylinder. The Brine system are a good bit cheaper, cheapest quote I got was 8k euro.
So I would be seriously questioning what they are supplying and also shop around.

My guess is that folks are thinking of 20k+ for the whole heating
system, UFH / manifolds/room stats/climate control, heat pump, ground collector, excavation and filling of trench to accomodate the collector,etc
as opposed to pricing just the geothermal/gshp portions (ie. collector,
heat pump & dhw rapid recovery cyl)

~ipl

Kate Moss

Hi, we are building a 2,000 square foot house. We hope to put in geothermal with UFH upstairs and downstairs.

Does anybody of any experience of direct and indirect heat pumps and if so, which is the best. I hear that the direct is the most efficent and returns a higher COP (Eco Heat supply direct and say theirs has a COP of 6 whereas I hear standard COP is 3.5 to 4).

Also, could someone please recommend a company that does the full supply and fit as I have been advised to go with one company for all. We will need one that does a site vist to assess the ground.

For a 2,000 square foot house what size heatpump is required as I dont want to get one that is too big and ends up costing on electricty.

Viking House

If you insulated externally like they do in Scandinavia and Mainland Europe you will cut your heating cost and the size of Geothermal system in half.
Remember it costs about €900 to heat a 2500sq ft house in Scandinavia with oil. It costs three times that here, in a much warmer climate.

If you build your 2500sq/ft house right you should be able to heat it for €500 a year or less.

They rarely use UF heating or rads upstairs in Scandinavia as the heated air isn't good for you, just get a good quilt.

Zynks

Talking about Scandinavia, a friend of mine in Sweden got GTH installed in his 2500 sqf house for around €7k. That was the one drilling straight down instead of lifting the whole lawn. With those difference in prices you would almost want to hire the Swedes to come here to do the job...

I am looking into something similar for a front door with suround and sound/thermal insulation. Prices here are easily twice as much.

Spfeno1

Similar story with a twist here guys - purchasing an 1800 ish sq. foot log cabin.
Was thinking of putting the Geo Heating (vertical bore system) in to replace the standard electric night time 'energy saving' heating system that will be fitted throughout.

I've just really heard about the whole GTH thing and am toying around with the idea. Will be attending the Energy Show in the RDS next Wed Thurs 10-11 May in the hope the a lot of questions will be answered but if anyone has any pointers/links to sites/recommended suppliers/fitters they'd be much appreciated.

In the words of Colombo, 'eh just one more question .......... can anyone tell me if underfloor heating can be installed in a log cabin'. This dwelling is almost 100% constructed of treated Scandanavian pine so how would heat expansion/contraction figure

Thanks

Viking House

With UF heating the temperature in the house is lower because it is kept at ground level so you should have no problem, I'll ask my guys if you want.

Bomany

I am building house of 2500sq feet. Quotes from 3 companies for UFH and Geothermal between 19k and 20k.

Does anyone know if any heat pump out there is significantly better than any other? I have looked at Alpha Innotec, Ochsner and Heliotherm. From what I have managed to research the Heliotherm is the most efficient.Is this the case. I would be interested to hear if anyone has any more info on heat pumps.

Spfeno1

Viking House wrote:

With UF heating the temperature in the house is lower because it is kept at ground level so you should have no problem, I'll ask my guys if you want.

Thanks Viking House, I'd appreciate that. You can PM me with the details if needs be

luckat

Found a couple of sites:

http://www.heatpumpcentre.org/default.asp
IEA Heat Pump Centre (HPC), an international information service for heat pumping technologies, applications and markets. The goal is to accelerate the implementation of heat pumps and related heat pumping technologies.

http://www.geoexchange.org/
US site: Geothermal Heat Pump Consortium - info exchange site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump
Wiki

http://www.heatpumpnet.org.uk/
UK Information Network for Heat Pumps (people who like blobs and lists, but it may be helpful)

http://www.ehpa.org/
The European Heat Pump Association represents the interests of the European heat pump industry on international level.

frankie2shoes

i've heard from a couple of people who had geo-thermal heating installed in their new builds that the house never feels really cosy. their systems were installed in the last 5 yrs so maybe the technology has improved since then but i'd hate to pay out all that cash for a system that does'nt work and needs to be supplemented.

for the money and considering the size of the gov grants available is wood pellet not a more intelligent choice?

also are wood pellet boiler systems not more controllable?

am just starting the process of planning a 2200sq ft house myself and am yet to be convinced of geo thermal.

tribesman

frankie2shoes wrote:

i've heard from a couple of people who had geo-thermal heating installed in their new builds that the house never feels really cosy. their systems were installed in the last 5 yrs so maybe the technology has improved since then but i'd hate to pay out all that cash for a system that does'nt work and needs to be supplemented.

for the money and considering the size of the gov grants available is wood pellet not a more intelligent choice?

also are wood pellet boiler systems not more controllable?

We run our UFH off geothermal. We keep the living rooms and bathrooms at 20 degrees and the bedrooms at 17. We find this plenty cosy and a 17kW hetpump is capable of doing this for a 2500 sq. ft house. The great thing about it though is that there is absolutely no maintenance. Neither is there an unsightly silo to store the pellets.

When you say controllable, I assume you are referring to response time. This has nothing to do with the source of the heat but rather with the method of distributing it. i.e radiators have a quicker response time than UFH. Wood pellet with UFH is no more controllable than geo with UFH.

Kate Moss

Hi Tribesman,

Can you tell me if the heat pump you have installed is a direct (DX) or indirect exchanger.

Also, who installed it and would you recommend them. Did you get the one company to supply, install and commission the heat pump and also the UFH?

I am getting a site survey done on Saturday. One company said that this must be done to confirm whether the ground is suitable or not for geothermal (they supply indirect system). Another company said that a site survey is not necessary as it is very rare that the ground would be unsuitable (they supply direct system).

I liked the direct system but not sure I trust the company!!

Kate.

d00gle

Ok, i too am looking at different systems at the moment, but i have just one question, how much approximately will it cost to run the geo therm systems per anumn? Any ideas?

Qwerty?

d00gle wrote:

Ok, i too am looking at different systems at the moment, but i have just one question, how much approximately will it cost to run the geo therm systems per anumn? Any ideas?

The famous question:)

I've geothermal in since December, and got my electrician to put a meter on it in January, so I can have an accurate reading of it's use.

For the last 24hrs it has cost exactly €1.80 (not counting Nightsaver - which would bring it down to about €1.50.
On the 3rd of March, when the ground was covered in snow, and the outside temp was -7 it cost €5.95.


Heres the daily Average for Feb to May so far:-

February €4.53
March €4.10
April €4.33
May €2.50
(again none of these figures include nightsaver - subtract approx 1/4 to get an approx value.)

Call back next Feb. for a yearly costings...;)

tribesman

My costing is not as detailed as qwerty's but our total ESB bill for the first year was 1050. This was the total for heating and lighting & an electric oven. I'm not sure how much of this was for the heating but you guys probably know already roughly how much ESB for lighting alone costs.

This was for a 17kW heatpump in a 2500sq. ft. concrete block house. We did exceed the building regulations for insulation by about 50% all round though so the costs would probably be higher without this.