czech mate [fao:admins]

solas

I just received this pm from the mod of the sc forum

hullaballo wrote:

Why don't you go and give air your concerns somewhere that they might matter. I'm finished with you. You are on a thin line with other areas on boards as well, and I'd be surprised if you lasted much longer.

I love nothing more than slaggin gob****es. I love nothing more than banning tools. You can go and fight your weenie-corner.

While I wasn't aware that I was running a thin line with anyone or any forum here, (no bans or warnings that I'm aware of) this issue has arisen in relation to this thread.

hagar wrote:

This is a public forum and anything posted here can be read by the whole world. We have an obligation not to belittle other posters, for any reason. If defamatory posts are made both the poster and boards may be held liable. This has been recently established in the legal forum. You can't go around calling people idiots and cretins as some people have done. It's just not on.
Publishing quotations by named posters and ridiculing them is wrong. Publishing and correcting the grammatical error but not identifying the author by either name or content would be fine.
Some poor unfortunates have been made look extremely stupid. Some of these people have learning difficulties or educational deficiencies that are outside their control.

hullaballoo wrote:

That's the one who I've been wrecking my head trying to think of. What an absolute joke. Here's a mild offender by her standards:

IL check it out . Did you ever hear of fish oil there tables thjat help you to conentreate . ( Oh really will yeah know?)

solas wrote:

The poster and post above are referenced from a thread discussing ADD, which is very often associated with dyslexia and an inability to construct language in a legible [focused] manner.
Considering the posts were made at PI, I think it's a little extreme to expose someone for admitting their vulnerabilities

hullaballo wrote:

I am worried that this forum is becoming a little offensive to certain people. It is supposed to be a bit of a laugh, somewhere for us pedants to vent our gripes to keep us off the streets so that we don't
upset the people of boards too much. etc etc.

what do you expect? I don't have a problem with you taking up your grammer issues where it might be effective and non offensive, taking issues with a recognised medical condition is somehow different. Passionate my arse.

The mod in question contacted me personally to discuss the issue as he felt it was a personal one I had with him. I've never met the mod in question prior to today and the issue I raised was with the nature of his post in relation to ripping the p!ss out of someone with adhd for the pleasure of the spell czheck forum. I told him to get a life and he responded by banning me permanantly, which I have no problem with.

In his second Pm he claims an S mod has told him he is perfectly within his rights as subject to the nature of the forum. I think it's questionable. Mods have a responsibility within the community to uphold some basic standards. I have no issue with a forum dedicated to light hearted banter but as someone familiar with the condition and its affects I find it pretty insensitive and sort of offensive.

I'm not expecting any action in relation to the matter, I'm just noting my objections, safely.

Agent Smith

Tbh i thought It was a Bad idea from the start.....

arbeitsscheuer

There is a fine dividing line between Free Speech and Offensiveness.

I find it odd that the first person to state that this particular forum crosses that line, is someone with "Support Denmark" in their sig... How truly ironic... None are so blind as he who refuses to see...

Anyway, yeah. Bad idea. Insulting, offensive, arrogant and, now, unfunny.

Joke wore thin, what can ya say?

solas

My last response in the forum was a request to apply a little discernment. That's all I'm suggesting.

Chinafoot

Not wishing to pass judgement on either side here but if you are you going to post up one PM from hullaballoo why not post up the ones preceding that one including your responses. He is not the type to just fly off the handle.

He clearly thought that there was an issue there. I mean you have stated on the thread itself

solas wrote:

This forum would benefit of the experience of a decent mod.

I agree that there could be a lot of offence taken from it but I honestly don't think it is intentionally malicious towards any poster.

Perhaps the forum should be made private?

CuLT

Hosted Forum, he can ban all of boards.ie from it if he so wishes. He also doesn't have any obligation to be an ambassador for boards.ie to the users as regular mods do (well, it's hardly forced upon us, it's just something we do).
There is some general level of confusion over this though, I think.

To paraphrase Cloud (I think, maybe DeV): Boards.ie provides a service to Hosted Moderators, Moderators provide a service to boards.ie.

Personally, I think the Spell Czechs forum is the most farcical group of hypocrites on boards.ie gathered into one place (pedants my arse; I wouldn't have to read far back into any of the SCs posts to find a myriad of grammatical errors).
That said, my opinion shouldn't (and won't) be advertised to them on their forum, because it's a hosted forum. That's their space, they should be allowed their corner of the web seeing as it has been given the go-ahead by the admins.

solas

cult wrote:

Hosted Forum, he can ban all of boards.ie from it if he so wishes. He also doesn't have any obligation to be an ambassador for boards.ie to the users as regular mods do (well, it's hardly forced upon us, it's just something we do)

I'm not raising any issue with being banned, I'm not particularly concerned about it at all, the point I'm raising I made really clear in the above post. Its more to do with denigrating people who may have a recognised medical condition, which I objected to in the forum.

peachypants wrote:

I agree that there could be a lot of offence taken from it but I honestly don't think it is intentionally malicious towards any poster.

malicious no, stupid, yes. He very consciously quoted a post from a thread entitled ADHD where people were discussing the issues and effects of the condition.
My response to the moderatorship was in reference to hagars post on the subject of good policing at the forum, some of which is transcribed in the op too.
A second mod there mightn't be any harm at all. Failing that, maybe going private would spare any unfortunates from getting caught up in the whole thing.

Chinafoot

Sorry solas but I still have to ask about the PMs. You have posted one PM which paints Hullaballoo in a very bad light. Its hardly fair. If you want to make this public then surely you should show what you said in order to provoke such a reaction.

As CuLT said, its a hosted forum. He asked for the forum, there was input from DeVore who gave them a stern warning and no names have been named from what I can see.

By asking for a "decent" mod you are implying that Hullaballoo is not a decent mod. Personally I think he is a very good mod. He hasn't been doing it for a very long (either have I) but he seems to be rather good from my point of view.

I don't mean to sound flippant here but if you are offended by whats there, don't post there. I haven't posted there (even as a final year English student I'd rather not leave myself completely open to correction) but I don't really have a any problem with the nature of the forum.


As for your banning....he tried to discuss things with you and you responded with "get a life". The banning was deserved imo.

*edit*The reason why I'm responding to this is because Hullaballoo discussed it with me earlier. But thats just my 2c. I'll stay out of it now.

CuLT

solas wrote:

I'm not raising any issue with being banned, I'm not particularly concerned about it at all, the point I'm raising I made really clear in the above post. Its more to do with denigrating people who may have a recognised medical condition, which I objected to in the forum.
malicious no, stupid, yes. He very consciously quoted a post from a thread entitled ADHD where people were discussing the issues and effects of the condition.

Laughing at someone in a wheelchair isn't going to win you any popularity contests (unless the person in the wheelchair is Bill Bailey or something), but it's not going to get you a prison sentence either.

If he posted on the thread with those users then I'd probably be frowning; then again there are a lot of eejits who just hide behind dyslexia and related conditions online. There might be a recognized medical condition, but what proves that they have it? Bad typing?

No, I think he did well enough to keep it to Spell Czechs, even if it was lame and in poor taste.

solas

sure, I'll post all correspondance, just give me a minute to get it together.
in relation to being banned, as I stated earlier :

solas wrote:

The mod in question contacted me personally to discuss the issue as he felt it was a personal one I had with him. I've never met the mod in question prior to today and the issue I raised was with the nature of his post in relation to ripping the p!ss out of someone with adhd for the pleasure of the spell czheck forum. I told him to get a life and he responded by banning me permanantly, which I have no problem with.

peachypants wrote:

]I don't mean to sound flippant here but if you are offended by whats there, don't post there. I haven't posted there (even as a final year English student I'd rather not leave myself completely open to correction) but I don't really have a any problem with the nature of the forum.

yes, it is a bit flippant. i've already stated I don't have a problem with the nature of the forum, I do have issues where people are condescendant of medical conditions.
I never posted prior to today, in fact I never knew it existed but the first few posts I read contained the offending one, whichI recalled as I was aparticipant in the discussion. At first I thought it was my own post, which I laughed at and attempted to address the issue of it being in relation to a discussion on the topic of adhd.

Once there are no names being named what is the problem?

I'm very aware of how sensitive an issue it can be.
If you want further details I'll provide them for you.

As for your banning....he tried to discuss things with you and you responded with "get a life". The banning was deserved imo

I think it wasn't a fair ban, it was a trigger happy reaction. This is my third time stating that this issue is not about being banned.

solas

cult wrote:

If he posted on the thread with those users then I'd probably be frowning; then again there are a lot of eejits who just hide behind dyslexia and related conditions online. There might be a recognized medical condition, but what proves that they have it? Bad typing?

maybe if they were aware that the person writing requires medication to help achieve some level of focus they might not be so quick to degrade them.
adhd and other realted conditions also have other side effects which should be taken into consideration
http://www.vhi.ie/news/n170505a.jsp
all I'm suggesting is a little tact.

solas

peachypants wrote:

By asking for a "decent" mod you are implying that Hullaballoo is not a decent mod. Personally I think he is a very good mod. He hasn't been doing it for a very long (either have I) but he seems to be rather good from my point of view.

your putting words were there are none. I suggested the assistance of an experienced mod might be a good idea, as hullaballo stated himself, he hasn't been around a wet week.

Tar.Aldarion

So what?
It's just common sense. You say he is doing badly,
I disagree with you, he's doing grand. People have opinions.
If he had a problem he could just ask somebody in IRC for their opinion but he seems to be doing fine.

solas

tar aldrion wrote:

So what?
It's just common sense. You say he is doing badly,
I disagree with you, he's doing grand. People have opinions.
If he had a problem he could just ask somebody in IRC for their opinion but he seems to be doing fine.

this isn't this a personal issue with someones modding techniques. He's doing fine, great...I'm objecting to his post deriding someone with adhd and a forum which permits it. Hagar posted a message in relation to such issues in the forum, I think its a respectable request.

hagar wrote:

This is a public forum and anything posted here can be read by the whole world. We have an obligation not to belittle other posters, for any reason. If defamatory posts are made both the poster and boards may be held liable. This has been recently established in the legal forum. You can't go around calling people idiots and cretins as some people have done. It's just not on.
Publishing quotations by named posters and ridiculing them is wrong. Publishing and correcting the grammatical error but not identifying the author by either name or content would be fine.
Some poor unfortunates have been made look extremely stupid. Some of these people have learning difficulties or educational deficiencies that are outside their control.

why is it perfectly ok for the mod of the same forum to contradict this? While he may not have identified the user, I recognised him and it's possible the boardsie himself has seen it, it doesn't make it any less offensive, especially when the poster is aware that the discussion was taken from a thread discussing the issues of adhd.
"Sure look, lets go around boards and find posts which have really bad grammar and make a note of them, wheres the best place to go? ah, here's a thread all about adhd, loads of sh!te there we can make an issue of."

solas

not that they are an issue, here's the pm's you requested.

hullaballo wrote:

solas, I am concerned about the ruffling-up you're doing on the Spell Czechs forum. It appears that you have a problem with me personally. I'd like to sort this out with you, because I'm a reasonable person, and I dislike the thought that I've offended anyone. I don't mind having a back-and-forth argument with you in the Spell Czechs forum, but I feel that other users might prefer if we took our personal gripes (and indeed we might get a bit further between ourselves if) we took this to PM.

Feel free to air your concerns over this medium,
Thank you,
hullaballoo.

solas wrote:

get a life

hullaballoo wrote:

Cool. Well, I don't know about you, but I have quite a good life.

I'll tell you what (and this won't come as a surprise); you're permanently banned from the Spell Czechs forum. If you have an issue with the forum, please deal with it elsewhere.

I've tried to reason with you, but obviously reason is beyond you. Now, that's ok, I'm well used to people having a problem with the fact that I'm only on boards a wet week, and yet I mod two fora, so you're not the first to have a go at me.

You must remember two things:
1. I was picked by an admin to mod both the fora I mod.
2. The Spell Czechs is a hosted forum, and therefore, there is slightly more leeway in terms of how I moderate (according to a Smod).

I understand your concerns, but honestly, you're going to have to work on your diplomacy if you're going to get by in life.

Get a minicall,
hullaballoo.

solas wrote:

hullaballoo wrote:

Cool. Well, I don't know about you, but I have quite a good life.

sure ya do, picking on people with learning disabilities makes you feel good.

hullaballoo wrote:

I'll tell you what (and this won't come as a surprise); you're permanently banned from the Spell Czechs forum. If you have an issue with the forum, please deal with it elsewhere.

aww shame, and there I was thinking how much fun it would be to hang out with bigots.

hullaballoo wrote:

I've tried to reason with you, but obviously reason is beyond you. Now, that's ok, I'm well used to people having a problem with the fact that I'm only on boards a wet week, and yet I mod two fora, so you're not the first to have a go at me.

I made an observation, one which you choose not to recognise.

hullaballoo wrote:

You must remember two things:
1. I was picked by an admin to mod both the fora I mod.
2. The Spell Czechs is a hosted forum, and therefore, there is slightly more leeway in terms of how I moderate (according to a Smod).

feel free to do what you like.

hullaballoo wrote:

I understand your concerns

really?,

hullaballoo wrote:

but honestly, you're going to have to work on your diplomacy if you're going to get by in life.

Get a minicall,
hullaballoo.

etc..etc..

hullabaloo wrote:

Why don't you go and give air your concerns somewhere that they might matter. I'm finished with you. You are on a thin line with other areas on boards as well, and I'd be surprised if you lasted much longer.

I love nothing more than slaggin gob****es. I love nothing more than banning tools. You can go and fight your weenie-corner.

solas

if you check the forum, I didn't go there to ruffle feathers, none of my posts were offensive neither were they attacks on hullaballo, I made an attempt to explain the content the quotes were taken from and objected to it.
I'll retire to my weenie corner.

Tar.Aldarion

solas wrote:

this isn't this a personal issue with someones modding techniques. He's doing fine, great...

W00t ok, I'm rather drunk and that's all I saw.
I hope my posts make sense in the morning.

I'm objecting to his post deriding someone with adhd and a forum which permits it. Hagar posted a message in relation to such issues in the forum, I think its a respectable request. why is it perfectly ok for the mod of the same forum to contradict this? While he may not have identified the user, I recognised him and it's possible the boardsie himself has seen it, it doesn't make it any less offensive, especially when the poster is aware that the discussion was taken from a thread discussing the issues of adhd.

Dev. came in and said, stop attacking posters, attack posts.
This is exactly what happened.

Hullaballoo wrote:

When I comment on grammar or spelling in this forum, it is an attack on spelling and grammar alone, not the poster.

This person happened to have a medical problem and so they cannot use grammar well, so what?
He is just correcting a bunch of words. It happened to be in a thread that it was obvious that this condition existed, again my opinion is, so what?
He could take a post from anywhere on boards and the person may have a condition, surely ignorance of a person having it or not having it should not matter? Somebody might be offended. This person may or may not be, I would not be.
They might have been offended so lets all jump on the super PC wagon of doom.
A priest nearly collapsed(He was so offended.) recently when he saw a pentagram etc on my tshirt.
Practically everything offends somebody. I don't think you should go near the humour forum, for example.

"Sure look, lets go around boards and find posts which have really bad grammar and make a note of them, wheres the best place to go? ah, here's a thread all about adhd, loads of sh!te there we can make an issue of."

This is conjecture.





EDIT: you do not come out in a good light from those PM's. He was perfectly polite and got, 'get a life' in return. Then the conjecture seems to come in. Well, all us bigots are starting to see you as a bit of a prick.

solas

tar aldrion wrote:

This person happened to have a medical problem and so they cannot use grammar well, so what?

so why make a joke of it?

hullaballoo wrote:

That's the one who I've been wrecking my head trying to think of. What an absolute joke. Here's a mild offender by her standards:

IL check it out . Did you ever hear of fish oil there tables thjat help you to conentreate . ( Oh really will yeah know?)

He is just correcting a bunch of words. It happened to be in a thread that it was obvious that this condition existed, again my opinion is, so what? He could take a post from anywhere on boards and the person may have a condition, surely ignorance of a person having it or not having it should not matter? Somebody might be offended. This person may or may not be, I would not be. They might have been offended so lets all jump on the super PC wagon of doom.

solas wrote:

maybe if they were aware that the person writing requires medication to help achieve some level of focus they might not be so quick to degrade them.
adhd and other realted conditions also have other side effects which should be taken into consideration
http://www.vhi.ie/news/n170505a.jsp
all I'm suggesting is a little tact.

A priest nearly collapsed(He was so offended.) recently when he saw a pentagram etc on my tshirt.
Practically everything offends somebody. I don't think you should go near the humour forum, for example.

It's one thing to take offense at something it's another to use someone else as an excuse to get your kicks.

Tar.Aldarion

solas wrote:

I think you should stay away from children.

I do.

solas

its a little bit like an irish man making irish man jokes, no one has a problem with it.
Its a different scenario when the british make irish jokes, its usually considered derogatory.
people with conditions are usually very willing to have a laugh at their own expense, it's rarely as funny when they are considered the joke.

solas

tar aldrion wrote:

EDIT: you do not come out in a good light from those PM's. He was perfectly polite and got, 'get a life' in return. Then the conjecture seems to come in. Well, all us bigots are starting to see you as a bit of a prick.

I was perfectly polite in the forum, he decided it was a personal issue with him. This wasn't the case.
I prefer to discuss these things in the open, the personal abuse is easier to detect and report that way.

I started this thread to air my views on the issue in the forum, not to voice my personal discontent with hullaballo or his moderatorship or his pm's. I've suggested they apply some level of discrimination with the posts they select for criticism. It's pretty straightforward.
edit:

Dev. came in and said, stop attacking posters, attack posts.
This is exactly what happened.

problem solved, I wasn't aware DeV had already checked the forum.

Tar.Aldarion

so why make a joke of it?

Nothing wrong with saying the grammar in the post is an absolute joke, that's an opinion. It's different if he said, 'she is an absolute joke'.

maybe if they were aware that the person writing requires medication to help achieve some level of focus they might not be so quick to degrade them.
adhd and other realted conditions also have other side effects which should be taken into consideration
http://www.vhi.ie/news/n170505a.jsp
all I'm suggesting is a little tact.

What is the point of this?
Are you saying that people don't know what the condition entails?




Do you think the humour forum should exist, jokes about dyslexia, aids, cancer, blondes, jesus, the holocaust and a myriad of things that people would find horribly offensive. Should stand up commendians just stop?
If I point out that you have not once spelled my name right and you may or may not have dyslexia, should I just not do it?

It's one thing to take offense at something it's another to use someone else as an excuse to get your kicks.

Accusing conjecture.

its a little bit like an irish man making irish man jokes, no one has a problem with it.
Its a different scenario when the british make irish jokes, its usually considered derogatory.
people with conditions are usually very willing to have a laugh at their own expense, it's rarely as funny when they are considered the joke.

I was perfectly polite in the forum, he decided it was a personal issue with him. This wasn't the case.

This is not true. He said it appears you have a problem with him. How about, 'no I don't' instead of 'get a life'. It certainly looks like the case.

I prefer to discuss these things in the open

He politely gave you the option.

the personal abuse is easier to detect and report that way.

Eh, what?



EDIT:

problem solved, I wasn't aware DeV had already checked the forum.

Apparently my drunken arguing is fruitless, wahay. (:

solas

tar aldrion wrote:

This is not true. He said it appears you have a problem with him. How about, 'no I don't' instead of 'get a life'. It certainly looks like the case.

it's difficult to discuss this with a drunk and I prefer not to have to as the discussion would benefit from a little clarity. If you were following the thread you would note this discussion took place after I had contributed in the forum, where there hadn't been a personal issue. The issue of this thread is highlighting the criticism of someone with a medical condition. Apparantly its a non issue.

tar aldrion wrote:

Apparently my drunken arguing is fruitless, wahay. (:

guess so.

Tar.Aldarion

solas wrote:

it's difficult to discuss this with a drunk and I prefer not to have to as the discussion would benefit from a little clarity.

It is 5:17. I'm long sober by now. I get jokes me.
Please use punctuation in a sentence asking for clarity.

If you were following the thread you would note this discussion took place after I had contributed in the forum, where there hadn't been a personal issue.

Oh ya, I forgot to read the thread, big roll eyes just for you.
He did not say you definitely did, he said apparantly, you could have said, 'no - I do not have a problem with you but with you demeaning people. You said, 'get a life'.
Really comes across as not having a problem with him, especially when you call him a bigot.

solas

Tar.Aldarion

TerrorFirmer

Whilst I'm not defending Solas - I think there was inappropriate wording on both sides - I think he definately has a point.

although its a hosted forum so it's not really the same....

I think personally the spell czech forum is utterly stupid....but that's just my opinion, obviously enough it's there by way of popular support but anyway...

BuffyBot

It is rather..sad.

No, that's not the word I'm looking for. Pathetic..ah yes, there it is.

Talliesin

Two thoughts:

1. The fact that some people are at a disadvantage due to mental or psychological conditions, learning difficulties, have English as a second language and so one is all the more reason for people to condemn poor spelling and grammar that is the result of laziness and lack of attention and why we should strive to write well - writing that poses a difficulty to the reader due to it's lack of correct punctuation will pose even more of a difficulty to a reader in such a position.
2. It's well-known that there are private forums the humour of which would not be appropriate in public forums (though those too tend to avoid naming names too directly). Spell Czechs seems more appropriate as a private forum, and indeed I think that was the original request.

Beruthiel

Talliesin wrote:

Spell Czechs seems more appropriate as a private forum, and indeed I think that was the original request.

that was the original request, and I have already suggested that Hulla send a PM to Cloud pointing that out.

rsynnott

I would be terribly cautious of banning criticism on the basis that the person responsible might or might not be suffering from a medical problem. On that basis, we would have to ban most or all critical speech; the person who stole your phone might have done so because he was mentally ill, for example. While obviously nobody should be criticising the grammar of one who is known to suffer from a related illness, it wouldn't be sensible to ban criticism on the basis that someone might have such an illness.