Banned Permanently From Islamic Forum

Freddie59

I have been banned by a moderator from the Islamic forum for my contributions to a thread called 'Why Is The West So Afraid Of Islam". My answers to the questions posed are quite pertinent IMO (and that of others). I also posted a link to a site called www.thereligionofpeace.com

I feel that some moderators on boards.ie are letting their own personal beliefs and views cloud the debate and I think it is a sad day when this happens. I would hate to think that ceratin views are protected within the Islamic forum because it is that - Islamic.

I would call on the mod involved to have a rethink and put back the comments I posted in order for others to reply. Continue banning me if you want - but stifling debate? We all know where that got society in the past.

Regards,

Freddie59.

Hobbes

Your free to use other forums to discuss your issues. However posting a site that says "Islam: The religon of peace and white knuckle terror" is hardly contributing to the forum.

Next time read the charters. Would of thought you did that the last time you got banned.

Hagar

Each forum has a unique emphasis and attracts like-minded posters. If you don't have any interest in the forum other than expressing your dislike for its content you are better to stay away. You can't just go into an Islamic forum with all guns blazing, with your American Eagle/Flag sig and expect to be welcomed with open arms. It's the same on all forums, go over to the Juggling Forum for instance and belittle their interest, I think you will find you will not be welcome there either.

Hobbes

No issue with the American Eagle flag at all. Might break the SIGPO but wouldn't of gotten him banned.

While I appreciate that Freddie wont like what I'm about to say,I'll say it anyway.
Hobbes is right on this.He has taken a decision to mod the Islam board such as to avoid Trenchant criticism of certain groups not really representative of the Religion.

The proper place to have threads/posts on that topic is elsewhere as moderate muslims who do disavow the likes of Laden etc shouldnt have to be exposed to constant argy bargy towards people that they disavow.


Leaving aside the Islam issue,If I saw a poster coming into a forum I mod and constantly raising issues that get up the goat of the regulars,I'd politely ask them to desist or they would be banned also.
There are other fora more suitable.Doing it in specialist fora is too much like trolling.

Ag marbh

Freddie59 wrote:

I feel that some moderators on boards.ie are letting their own personal beliefs and views cloud the debate and I think it is a sad day when this happens.

I agree.

Freddie59

Earthman wrote:

While I appreciate that Freddie wont like what I'm about to say,I'll say it anyway.
Hobbes is right on this.He has taken a decision to mod the Islam board such as to avoid Trenchant criticism of certain groups not really representative of the Religion.

The proper place to have threads/posts on that topic is elsewhere as moderate muslims who do disavow the likes of Laden etc shouldnt have to be exposed to constant argy bargy towards people that they disavow.


Leaving aside the Islam issue,If I saw a poster coming into a forum I mod and constantly raising issues that get up the goat of the regulars,I'd politely ask them to desist or they would be banned also.
There are other fora more suitable.Doing it in specialist fora is too much like trolling.

Fair enough Earthman - I see where you're coming from. But I thnk the replies posted here by Messrs. Hagar and Hobbes raise far wider issues. People who browse (I think a more apt word than troll) various fora on boards.ie post comments across said fora on a regular basis. I, for example, browse mainly the ICDG, Broadband, VOIP, and Region (Waterford) fora.

I also like, occasionally, to browse the News/Media and Soc/Religion fora.
Now, in the aforementioned Islamic forum, a quesion (thread) was posed:

"Why Is The West So Afraid Of Islam"? I gave my opinions on this, which I think, in all fairness, were fair points given the topic. I also think the religion of peace website is VERY topical.

I would ask the following:

1. Am I to understand that visiting several different fora on boards.ie is frowned upon (even discouraged) by the powers that be?

2. Is it also a policy to ban a contributor on the basis that his/her views may
contradict other opinions on a forum?

3. Are certain fora afforded a special level of protection so as not to 'offend' their core viewers and contributors, while these same viewers and contributors are free to roam other fora such as News/Media and Politics with free rein?

It is disappointing, indeed, highly repulsive, that, in a free society, people who choose to articulate a point of view which is the same as that espoused by a large section of the population, are penalised, even prevented from doing so.

I make no apology for the use of the American flag in my signature - my views on the USA and our indebtedness to them are on record.

I would, again, respectfully suggest that my reply be restored on the Islamic forum and let the viewers and contributors decide for themselves. Isn't that what free speech is all about?

Freddie59

Freddie59 wrote:

Now, in the aforementioned Islamic forum, a quesion (thread) was posed:

"Why Is The West So Afraid Of Islam"? I gave my opinions on this, which I think, in all fairness, were fair points given the topic. I also think the religion of peace website is VERY topical.

I dont know the specefics of your banning.I just gave a general opinion there based on what it seems Hobbes wants to do with the Islam forum.
It's not a place for debate/argey Bargey regarding AlQueda etc.Thats for elsewhere-especially when most muslims who post there want to discuss their religion and not get bogged down in what I'm sure they would see as constant discussions on irrelevant and most annoyingingly wrong interpretations and abuse of the name of their religion.

From a Charter point of view, the only way to enforce that, is to do what has been done and enforce it fairly.
As I say I dont know the specefics or timeline as regards the number of posts etc of your ban-BUT you have the option of posting your opinions within the charter of other fora here.

I would ask the following:

1. Am I to understand that visiting several different fora on boards.ie is frowned upon (even discouraged) by the powers that be?

No but constant trolling would be.

2. Is it also a policy to ban a contributor on the basis that his/her views may
contradict other opinions on a forum?

Nope but in the case of a poster who the moderator feels is just posting to troll, then a ban is waranted in my humble opinion (slightly different in the Islam board as it is designed to be Rigid regarding the discussion of fanaticism)

3. Are certain fora afforded a special level of protection so as not to 'offend' their core viewers and contributors, while these same viewers and contributors are free to roam other fora such as News/Media and Politics with free rein?

In the case of Islam anyway,its set up for the purpose of discussing the Religion but expressly not to discuss fanaticism which is a flawed interpretation of the religion.

It is disappointing, indeed, highly repulsive, that, in a free society, people who choose to articulate a point of view which is the same as that espoused by a large section of the population, are penalised, even prevented from doing so.

With respect thats not the case.You are free to express your views subject to a boards charter.

I make no apology for the use of the American flag in my signature - my views on the USA and our indebtedness to them are on record.

Thats fine,it's irrelevant to Islam though.

I would, again, respectfully suggest that my reply be restored on the Islamic forum and let the viewers and contributors decide for themselves. Isn't that what free speech is all about?

As per my earlier reply, thats a decision for Hobbes, but,the board has a charter and the board does not have to be frequented by anyone that doesnt want to discuss in the way that charter describes.
There are plenty of boards to air views here.

Gordon

Freddie59 wrote:

Isn't that what free speech is all about?

If you are trying to imply that boards.ie has a policy of free speech that we implicitly adhere to then you are wrong.

Karl Hungus

As far as I see the situation, I don't think Freddy should've been banned, but rather the thread in question should've been moved to Humanities or Politics. I believe the Islam board is there discussion solely of the religion itself, not the politics of it, or the social issues brought up by that specific thread. As it is, discussing a topic that's called "Why is the west afraid of Islam?" isn't suited to a forum like Islam, as it has far greater scope of discussion than the Islam board really allows.

RE*AC*TOR

As far as I understand the Koran not only gives religious guidelines to individuals, but also dictates how states should be run. So in a sense its as much a political movement as a religion. Therefore I would suggest that the permissable subjects should be a little broader than currently.

The moderating of that particular forum is very hardline (some might say aptly so). I must say that it doesn't do the debate any favours to be censoring so much of the topic. It probably only serves to reinforce the prejudice (or fact?) that islam is a very restrictive and authoritarian system of beliefs.

Finally, we're all big boys (and girls) - posting a link to a nutjob website (that's not obscene or illegal) shouldn't result in any manner of a ban. Its all gone a little silly.

metrovelvet

Karl Hungus wrote:

As far as I see the situation, I don't think Freddy should've been banned, but rather the thread in question should've been moved to Humanities or Politics. I believe the Islam board is there discussion solely of the religion itself, not the politics of it, or the social issues brought up by that specific thread. As it is, discussing a topic that's called "Why is the west afraid of Islam?" isn't suited to a forum like Islam, as it has far greater scope of discussion than the Islam board really allows.

Because Islam doesnt separate Church and State or morality from law what you suggest here is impossible.

This is a christian/protestant philosophy. Applying it to Islam would not be meeting muslims at their reality.

This is part of the problem with the moderation on the forum. The mod doesnt understand the religion himself.

Hobbes

There is a big difference in discussing how politics factors in with Islam and discussing modern day politics to try to draw examples of abuse by certain regimes as proof that a religon of a whole is bad. Your link was offensive in that regards. For example the site you posted is trying to imply that all of Islam are fanatics and even goes as far to factor in deaths in Iraq = muslims are all evil. Not something that I think people who has an honest interest in the religon want to have to read crap like that.

You were warned before and temp banned. You think you would learn. You were just going to get a temp ban but after reading the link and factoring in earlier posts you coming back is not going to do anything beyond me banning you again at a later point. Saves all the hassle this way.

Anyway as mentioned in the charter if you want to discuss politics take it to the politics forum. Why you are getting your pants in a twist to want to post that tripe in the Islam forum when you have other forums here is beyond me.

Oh and don't get all uppity about your sig either. It had absolutly nothing to do with you being banned.

This is part of the problem with the moderation on the forum. The mod doesnt understand the religion himself.

I believe that would help some of you guys persecution complexes.

Shabadu

metrovelvet wrote:

Because Islam doesnt separate Church and State or morality from law what you suggest here is impossible.

This is a christian/protestant philosophy. Applying it to Islam would not be meeting muslims at their reality.

This is part of the problem with the moderation on the forum. The mod doesnt understand the religion himself.

Just because some governments call themselves 'Islamic' doesn't mean that they hold true to the tenents of the Islamic religion, it also does not mean that the Islamic religion should necessarily be associated with them.

In Italy, the Catholic Church still has a huge hold over the government. People can choose to donate their taxes to the Catholic Church, but not to any other. Corruption is rife in the Italian Government. Is this because of the Catholic religion? Is George Bush such a pile of insanity because of the United Methodists?

Just because someone or something affiliates themselves with a religion does not mean that they're a shining example of the religion's beliefs.

That being said I believe that Islam is a fundamentally sexist religion, along with Catholicism, and I don't have much time for either.

Karl Hungus

metrovelvet wrote:

Because Islam doesnt separate Church and State or morality from law what you suggest here is impossible.

Ok, let me get this straight... Because Islam doesn't seperate Church and State or morality from law, it's impossible to have moved the thread in question from one forum to another...?

Did you even read what I said?

RE*AC*TOR

Shabadu, I think you are missing the point. Islam, fundamentally is as much a political doctrine as a religious one.

Hobbes

Karl Hungus wrote:

Ok, let me get this straight... Because Islam doesn't seperate Church and State or morality from law, it's impossible to have moved the thread in question from one forum to another...?

Did you even read what I said?

I understand what you are saying but the thread was still within bounds of the forum. Wasn't overly directed at politics but a number of areas. I suppose I could move to Humanities but those who got themselves banned before probably won't survive long there either.

metrovelvet

Karl Hungus wrote:

Ok, let me get this straight... Because Islam doesn't seperate Church and State or morality from law, it's impossible to have moved the thread in question from one forum to another...?

Did you even read what I said?

To move the thread would be imposing western modern values on Islam, which is very un pc and I presume violates Hobbes role as leader of the pc brigade.

Karl Hungus

Hobbes wrote:

I understand what you are saying but the thread was still within bounds of the forum. Wasn't overly directed at politics but a number of areas. I suppose I could move to Humanities but those who got themselves banned before probably won't survive long there either.

Certainly, you were right to ban Freddy for posting such blatant anti-islamic links in a forum that's there for discussion of the islamic religion. But rather that the thread shouldn't really have been left there in the first place.

You have to admit though, that the thread does invite opinions like that of Freddy59.

The topic clearly asks "Why is the West afraid of Islam?" and as I see it, the link posted is a valid answer to that question in that it represents a lot of the negative aspects of the religion and it's followers and shows quite dramatically why people in 'The West' could be afraid.

metrovelvet wrote:

To move the thread would be imposing western modern values on Islam, which is very un pc and I presume violates Hobbes role as leader of the pc brigade.

Ah, I see what you mean.

Zillah

Hobbes wrote:

Your free to use other forums to discuss your issues. However posting a site that says "Islam: The religon of peace and white knuckle terror" is hardly contributing to the forum.

I havn't read the thread yet, but its very title seems to be causing a bit of a problem. If you're against him linking to such a website, why even allow a thread entitled "Why is the west so afraid of Islam?" If you won't allow people to express negative opinions of Islam, then surely the thread should be moved somewhere where the topic can actually be discussed?

TerrorFirmer

I fail to see how anyone was expected to be able to hold a discussion based on the title if posting links to what essentially forms part of the invited argument warrants a ban.

Seems a bit one sided but thats just my opinion. I think Freddy didn't do anything to warrant a ban in the context of the actual thread title.

Again, just my opinion.

metrovelvet

You see Zillah, if the causes of the fear were pinpointed to wester neurosis or soem fault of the west, then thats acceptable. But if you say the west is afraid of islam because islam is scary then you will be banned.

He should just put that in the charter so everyone is clear.

Hobbes

Zillah wrote:

If you're against him linking to such a website, why even allow a thread entitled "Why is the west so afraid of Islam?" If you won't allow people to express negative opinions of Islam, then surely the thread should be moved somewhere where the topic can actually be discussed?

His exact post that was nuked was that link with the comment "No further comment needed :mad: ". It might be viable within the context of the thread except for the fact what he posted is what he believes directly not as an example of the idiots that are out there. This is based on his posting as a whole within the forum.

As I said he is unlikely to contribute in a constructive way based on his previous ban and his second ban. Why let him back when I know I am just going to ban him again.

Btw there are a number of people who are posting opposing views on the thread. Heck Wibbs is the resident opposing view.

But rather that the thread shouldn't really have been left there in the first place. You have to admit though, that the thread does invite opinions like that of Freddy59.

It was a rational discussion on topic. While it may attract those who are better off outside the forum doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed to exist in the forum.

Really when you have a poster with a history of comparing the people of the forum to nazis + terrorists well they are better off out of the forum.

Shabadu

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Shabadu, I think you are missing the point. Islam, fundamentally is as much a political doctrine as a religious one.

OK, I realise I'm going wildly off topic, but what confuses me is how this would relate to Islamic people living under a nondenominational government. I don't think you can associate the actions of a government that calls itself Islamic with the everyday lives of Islamic people living under non-Islamic government.

Hagar

Freddie59 wrote:

But I thnk the replies posted here by Messrs. Hagar and Hobbes raise far wider issues.

Just for the record I am not aligned with the Islam Forum or any other religous forum for that matter. I'm a fully paid up atheist and have no great regard for any gods of any flavour.

I was just making the point that in general terms we are all free to participate in any forum we like but we shouldn't forget that each forum was set up to promote discussion of a topic by interested posters. I'll say it again if your only interest in a forum is to try to undermine what other posters are enjoying there then you should stay away.

The topic in question I think was intended to promote self-examination of Islam by Muslims of how and why the West views them as it does. I don't really think they wanted wannabe Americans to come in and start shouting the odds.

That's my 2 Eurocent worth.

Jumpy

Hagar wrote:

I'll say it again if your only interest in a forum is to try to undermine what other posters are enjoying there then you should stay away.

.

If everyone thought like you then Slashdot wouldnt exist (not sure if that would be a bad thing) however you are not going to get everyone agreeing to a single point, and when you have a thread with such a broad title, then you are going to get people who disagree. ESPECIALLY with the current 'middle east situation' whether they are educated on the point or not, they form a vital part of a messageboard. They are not necessarily trying to undermine you.

Think about it.

I dont believe a banning was necessary,I did actually agree with him up until this point

I make no apology for the use of the American flag in my signature - my views on the USA and our indebtedness to them are on record.

But why ban the poor guy?

Karl Hungus

Hobbes wrote:

His exact post that was nuked was that link with the comment "No further comment needed :mad: ".

Ah, in that case, it was a sincerely trollish comment, and probably wouldn't have gone down well even if the thread wasn't in the Islam board, so he got what he deserved.

DeVore

Forum is for the interested and enlightened discussion of the Islamic *faith*.

Discussions regarding the interaction between east, west, christian and muslims belong in Humanities or perhaps Politics.

If people persisted in walking up to your table in a pub or restaurant and challenging you to defend or decry the IRA and its violence, wouldnt you get a little annoyed about it?

I really dont think you are going to find bin Laden or the King of Saudi on Boards so I don't know who is going to speak on behalf of the 1 billion muslims in the world to answer your charges.

In conclusion, there are areas for robust (though *civil*) discussion and debate. There are areas on boards for like minded people to just get along and enjoy their common link and explore it further.
Thats an important difference.

DeV.

Freddie59

Hobbes wrote:

His exact post that was nuked was that link with the comment "No further comment needed :mad: ". It might be viable within the context of the thread except for the fact what he posted is what he believes directly not as an example of the idiots that are out there. This is based on his posting as a whole within the forum.

It would have been OK with me had yoou just removed the link to www.thereligionofpeace.com I think you may have been within your rights as a mod there (but only just).

But you also removed my replies to the three questions posed by the original poster - a poster who, by the way, has posted across several fora vehemently anti-western comments which were offensive to me and others - but remained unbanned. Interesting.

Regarding the comment about 'wannabe Americans' I could just as easily retort with 'wannabe Islamics', which seems to be the PC route today. Just because I admire a country which has baled out the West on more than one occasion does not mean I agree with everything they do - same as woould be the case with the Irish Government.

Finally I would like to thank everyone for contributing to this thread. While not all of us agree on all things - it's good to see that there are still people out there who aspire to freedom of speech and debate. Many thanks to you all.:)

Karl Hungus

Freddie59 wrote:

It would have been OK with me had yoou just removed the link to www.thereligionofpeace.com I think you may have been within your rights as a mod there (but only just).

I didn't realise that modding decisions had to be ratified by you.

Freddie59

Karl Hungus wrote:

I didn't realise that modding decisions had to be ratified by you.

It's an opinion - do you have a problem with that?