Banned Permanently From Islamic Forum

Karl Hungus

Freddie59 wrote:

It's an opinion - do you have a problem with that?

No, but I have a problem with the way you claim "It would have been OK" as if that mattered whatsoever, and how you seem to think of yourself as an authority on what a moderator's rights are.

Freddie59

Hobbes wrote:

Really when you have a poster with a history of comparing the people of the forum to nazis + terrorists well they are better off out of the forum.

How do you equate comparing despotic regimes to the 'people of the forum'?

Freddie59

Hobbes wrote:

There is a big difference in discussing how politics factors in with Islam and discussing modern day politics to try to draw examples of abuse by certain regimes as proof that a religon of a whole is bad. Your link was offensive in that regards. For example the site you posted is trying to imply that all of Islam are fanatics and even goes as far to factor in deaths in Iraq = muslims are all evil. Not something that I think people who has an honest interest in the religon want to have to read crap like that.

You were warned before and temp banned. You think you would learn. You were just going to get a temp ban but after reading the link and factoring in earlier posts you coming back is not going to do anything beyond me banning you again at a later point. Saves all the hassle this way.

Anyway as mentioned in the charter if you want to discuss politics take it to the politics forum. Why you are getting your pants in a twist to want to post that tripe in the Islam forum when you have other forums here is beyond me.

Oh and don't get all uppity about your sig either. It had absolutly nothing to do with you being banned.



I believe that would help some of you guys persecution complexes.

So you basically want to censor out ANYTHING that may offend/contradict/upset the Islamic viewpoint? But anyone espousing a Western bias (in your opinion) must be banned?

Freddie59

Shabadu wrote:

In Italy, the Catholic Church still has a huge hold over the government. People can choose to donate their taxes to the Catholic Church, but not to any other. Corruption is rife in the Italian Government. Is this because of the Catholic religion? Is George Bush such a pile of insanity because of the United Methodists?

Fair points. But I haven't seen anyone banned for castigating George Bush, The Catholic Church, or the Methodists.;)

Zillah

So you basically want to censor out ANYTHING that may offend/contradict/upset the Islamic viewpoint? But anyone espousing a Western bias (in your opinion) must be banned?

So you're essentially saying that this gigantic man of straw over here is the cause of all life's problems? You go to say that if I direct all my attention at said strawman I'll see that you are right?

[/cheeky bugger]

Hobbes

Freddie59 wrote:

So you basically want to censor out ANYTHING that may offend/contradict/upset the Islamic viewpoint? But anyone espousing a Western bias (in your opinion) must be banned?

No. You are more then welcome to post about said stuff on the politics or humanties or after hours like so many others do. Or is there some reason you *have* to post on the Islam forum?

Incidently a large number of Muslims live in the West.

Freddie59

Hobbes wrote:

No. You are more then welcome to post about said stuff on the politics or humanties or after hours like so many others do. Or is there some reason you *have* to post on the Islam forum?

Incidently a large number of Muslims live in the West.

You still haven't repsonded as to why you afford so much protection to the Islamic forum - filtering out almost ANY argument that seeks to present the opposing viewpoint or (:eek: ) demonstrate any American support.

Freddie59

Karl Hungus wrote:

No, but I have a problem with the way you claim "It would have been OK" as if that mattered whatsoever, and how you seem to think of yourself as an authority on what a moderator's rights are.

I fail to see your problem here. I feel the moderator involved made a wrong decision (as do others). He feels he made the right one (as do others). I am entitled to voice such an opinion. Constructive criticism it's called.:) Or are moderators considered some kind of supreme, infallible being?

Wibbs

Speaking as the resident opposing view:D I reckon the posting of the religion of peace link would be grounds for a slap on the wrist. Tbh, I had a look and it gives no reasons for anything, just simply equates Islam with violence. Not exactly enlightening or logical. It also doesn't make any distinction between aspects of the faith and the vast majority of the faithful. The debate over the permanance of the ban is a matter for the mod in question. I would tend to let anyone post and if their argument stands then well and good. I've often found if the argument is illogical it wont and will die off accordingly. That way of doing things would likely lead to chaos though so not really a runner(I'm not cut out for modship methinks). DeVore's take on it is pretty much on the money, especially on the civil debate point. Not enough manners around the place.

Hobbes

Freddie59 wrote:

demonstrate any American support.

What has American support got anything to do with Islam? Or are you talking about American Muslims?

Karl Hungus

Freddie59 wrote:

I fail to see your problem here.

Well, that sounds like a personal problem.

Freddie59

Karl Hungus wrote:

Well, that sounds like a personal problem.

OK Karl - I'll explain. I criticised a mod - you took it personally. In all honesty, there was an element of 'how dare you' in your reply. Why should I (or others) not comment on decisions taken by mods?

That seems to be at the root of the problem here. Certain people take things personally and use their powers in order to stifle debate. It's unacceptable - in ANY public forum. The boards slogan "now ye're talkin'" rings very hollow indeed.

Hope that clears it up for you.

Freddie.:)

Freddie59

Hobbes wrote:

What has American support got anything to do with Islam? Or are you talking about American Muslims?

Playing with words now, are we?;) What I meant (and well you know it) is that anyone who seems even slightly pro-American in any discussion on the Islamic forum is immediately put down or banned. It's happened to others.

And you still haven't answered my question as to why you so vehemently protect the Islamic viewpoint, using any tools at your disposal?

Karl Hungus

Freddie59 wrote:

OK Karl - I'll explain. I criticised a mod - you took it personally.

Wrong! Come back to me when you have a grasp of my comments, alright? Untill then, back to sleep with you.

Hobbes

Freddie59 wrote:

is that anyone who seems even slightly pro-American in any discussion on the Islamic forum is immediately put down or banned.

Like I said.. wtf has being pro-American have to do with Islam? Are you saying all muslims hate America?

It's happened to others.

Really? Like who? Bare in mind the ban list is public in the forum so you can go find said people easier (of course not with your login).

why you so vehemently protect the Islamic viewpoint, using any tools at your disposal?

? You mean why won't I let you spout your crap on the forum. Well if you read the forum charter you would know why.

Hobbes

metrovelvet wrote:

You see Zillah, if the causes of the fear were pinpointed to wester neurosis or soem fault of the west, then thats acceptable. But if you say the west is afraid of islam because islam is scary then you will be banned.

Riight.. Thats why there are others on that thread mentioning they find Islam scary but they don't appear to be banned.

oscarBravo

Freddie59 wrote:

You still haven't repsonded as to why you afford so much protection to the Islamic forum - filtering out almost ANY argument that seeks to present the opposing viewpoint...

I'm confused. What's the "opposing viewpoint" to Islam?

DeVore

Wibbs wrote:

DeVore's take on it is pretty much on the money, especially on the civil debate point. Not enough manners around the place.

Thanks Wibbs, I was wondering when everyone would stop arguing with each other and take on board the opinion of the person who kinda makes the decisions around here. I'll argue my case against any retort or counter argument but it seems those involved are too busy clawing each others eyes out...

DeV.

metrovelvet

Like who? Who said Islam is scary and didnt get banned?

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Wibbs

metrovelvet wrote:

Like who? Who said Islam is scary and didnt get banned?

ehhh, I regularly do and I've only been temp banned once(grrr). Check, if you will, my previous posts on this and other subjects in the forum for my general contraryness to some things Islamic.

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

/Strokes Wibbs

Ah here. Steady on, there's children present...

_Turismo4

I my experience of reading up on other users that have been banned by a Moderator, there is always a very good reason for do so.
I suggest being more careful in the future especially when it’s to do with political views.

Freddie59

Karl Hungus wrote:

Wrong! Come back to me when you have a grasp of my comments, alright? Untill then, back to sleep with you.

Get a grip man. That comment just about sums up my argument. The elevated mod speaking down to the drones. It's quite childish actually.:D

Freddie59

Hobbes wrote:

? You mean why won't I let you spout your crap on the forum. read the

Interesting again. Crap in your opinion - quite valid points in the eyes of others. Maybe it's because some of the 'crap' spouted is too near the truth. Again it's protectionism of the worst sort. You can pontificate all you like and get all lofty - you censored one side of an argument unfairly. End of story.

Freddie59

metrovelvet wrote:

Like who? Who said Islam is scary and didnt get banned?

I'll be interested to see a reply to that Metrovelvet.:)

Freddie59

Hobbes wrote:

No. You are more then welcome to post about said stuff on the politics or humanties or after hours like so many others do. Or is there some reason you *have* to post on the Islam forum?

Incidently a large number of Muslims live in the West.

I ask again - is there a ban on people visiting the Islamic forum for a reason? An answer would be nice this time.:)

Talliesin

metrovelvet wrote:

Because Islam doesnt separate Church and State or morality from law what you suggest here is impossible.

This is a christian/protestant philosophy. Applying it to Islam would not be meeting muslims at their reality.

Actually it's more a humanist/renaissance philosophy, which allowed for the sort of public audience for criticism of accepted ideas that in part made the Reformation possible. The Renaissance in turn would not have happened without the influence of Muslim scholars who had been studying Classical philosophy when it was largely ignored in Europe.

The degree of religious and intellectual freedom enjoyed in Moorish Spain is also worth noting.

Freddie59 wrote:

it's good to see that there are still people out there who aspire to freedom of speech and debate.

As far as this relates to Freedom of Speech:

1. Freedom of speech applies to this site in so far as the rights of those who run it (I mean the admins and the directors of Boards, not the moderators) should be allowed to do so as they wish. That includes appointing Hobbes as moderator and his in turn banning you even if he was completely wrong to do so. Given your stated belief in Freedom of Speech you should be prepared to make a Paynian declaration of your intent to fight to the death to defend Hobbes' right to ban you.
2. You aren't quite shouting fire in a crowded theatre, but you're not far off reciting Hamlet's soliquoy while people are trying to watch a production of Romeo and Juliet.

Freddie59 wrote:

I ask again - is there a ban on people visiting the Islamic forum for a reason? An answer would be nice this time.:)

Oh noes. We will be fooled by the disingenous question into either saying people weren't allowed to visit the Islamic forum or into undoing the ban!!!11!ONE!!!

metrovelvet

Separation of Church and state arose with Henry VIII. Democracy was a direct result of the protestant reformation and the time during Liz I. And what was sweeping across Northern Europe.

We can thank the Protestants for the free world.

Catholicism doesnt like democracy and it doesnt look like Islam is too crazy about it either.

Shabadu

Lollers! Yeah, thanks Henry VIII, for selflessly attempting to rid us of the tyranny of Catholic government. We all realise that it had nothing to do with producing an heir. Also, way to go, killing all those people who refused to convert to Catholocism 'n' stuff & proclaiming yourself head of the church 'n' stuff. Go Liz I for making democracy work! Didn't she give wimmin the vote?

Go Super Team Protestant: Mission FreeWorld!!!!!1

DeVore

Freddie, Karl is neither the mod of this forum nor the mod of the Islam forum, so he's speaking to you as a fellow poster.

I, on the other hand, am an administrator of the entire site. Yet you've chosen to respond to everyone's post but mine.

DeV.