Monitored Alarms

17HMR

Sorry to hear that Sparks.....

I use the term window dressing as it's one of these things that sounds great in theory but falls way short of delivery in practice.

As I'm sure anyone in the alarm business will tell you, an alarm it nothing more than a deterrent really. I guess if you have a GSM based system that texts out specific details like window 3 sensor alert, room 3 PIR alert then you can chase up the boys in blue directly and do so with specifics or call a neighbour or get back there yourself etc....any of which may be enough to scare off the scum before any serious damage is done.

Even GSM systems though can be blocked - blockers are easily available on the 'Net, though I'd imagine few criminals are that well equipped.

Sparks

As I'm sure anyone in the alarm business will tell you, an alarm it nothing more than a deterrent really.

True. But then, next door was empty too, but they had an alarm with a big obvious box on the wall. We got burgled, they didn't. Sometimes a deterrent is a useful thing!

Besides, if they come with enough equipment and knowlege to defeat even a basic alarm system, then they're serious enough that you being at home with a baseball bat in your hands isn't going to be enough deterrent either...

flight93

Sparks, a monitored alarm requires a maintenence contract. Between monitoring contract and the maintenence it will cost you alot more each year than the discount you will save with insurance.
To deter the thieves you need to look at the whole package, this will include:

Sensor lights

Alarm system (with working bell box ie. LEDS that flash on it)

Good locks

GSM module so that the alarm can ring out if the phone line is cut.

Alarm panel should be in a secure location that is hard for the intruder to find.




I think that alarms that ring monitoring stations are highly over rated. If mine goes off it rings me (and 3 others). We respond far quicker than the cops can and we ring them when we are on the way. This saves alot of cash also. The local super is happy with it also.

Sorry to hear about your break in sparks.

flight93

if they come with enough equipment and knowlege to defeat even a basic alarm system,

If a basic alarm is properly installed it will have phoned out for help before the best equiped theif can disable it. This should be enough to stop them getting the most inportant stuff. All you can hope to do is put enough barriers in to slow them down. They can get through anything, the trick is not to give them enough time.

Sparks

flight93 wrote:

Sparks, a monitored alarm requires a maintenence contract. Between monitoring contract and the maintenence it will cost you alot more each year than the discount you will save with insurance.

By a large margin? Do we have a comparison between the different packages?
Although at this point, I'd consider it money well spent

I think that alarms that ring monitoring stations are highly over rated. If mine goes off it rings me (and 3 others). We respond far quicker than the cops can and we ring them when we are on the way.

I'd have to agree with that approach - I'd want to be the first person called, not someone at the tail end of a double shift who really wants their coffee break

DublinWriter

My own alarm system txts me directly on my moby (plus any other nominated numbers) if there's an attempted break-in.

A monitoring system, such as PhoneWatch will only ring you after the fact.

Cut out the middleman. Monitored systems are a rip unless they provide a follow-up call out.

Whizzo

Alot of guys I work with have installed Aztec burglar alarm systems which are apparently quite easy to install, and connect to you're phone line/ It will ring 5 numbers in succession with a pre-recorded message unless a code is entered, last number could be the Gaurds. Why pay for monitoring??

fred funk }{

Whizzo wrote:

Alot of guys I work with have installed Aztec burglar alarm systems which are apparently quite easy to install, and connect to you're phone line/ It will ring 5 numbers in succession with a pre-recorded message unless a code is entered, last number could be the Gaurds. Why pay for monitoring??

The guards wont respond to an automated message from a self installed alarm. They will only respond to a certified alarm that is monitored to a central station. You dont need a service contract, the alarm must be serviced by a alarm company who is registered with the relevant standards authorities.

flight93

Sparks wrote:

By a large margin? Do we have a comparison between the different packages?

I think the price you get off your insurance is in the order of 5%. Monitoring, maintenence etc. will vary alot but assume €150ish a year. Surley this is more than 5% of your home insurance??

An important fact to remember is that if you tell your insurance company that you have an alarm to avail of the discount in the small print it will tell you that if you havnt set your alarm and you are broken into the insurance is NULL & VOID. Is it worth it for 5%??? They can check if your alarm was on or not.

BOBTHESHOOTER

Have a lot of sympathy for sparks, it is no fun for anyone to have their house ransacked least loose a load of valuables, insurance hopfully will help but really it is impossible to replace some items of great sentimental value! Real bummer!

In any case Sail Alarms in Balbriggan I would highly recommend, did a great job 18 months ago for me, upgraded the exisiting alarm and provide a monitored service for less than €200 per annum, does it work! missus was doing her hair one Saturday AM, knocked the panic button in the bedroom by mistake, we reset that alarm thinking that we sorted it before the monitoring company would be bothered, however within 5 minutes there were three Gardai knocking on the door to enquire if everyting was allright! I call that a great boost in confidence for all concerned.

Monitored alarms, these days well worth the money!

DublinWriter

BOBTHESHOOTER wrote:

Monitored alarms, these days well worth the money!

Crap. They are a rip off.

Why have a monitored alarm when you can have your alarm txt your phone directly?

What's the benefit of a monitored alarm contract unless the monitoring company are going to send one of their vans out to check your premesis?

BOBTHESHOOTER

DublinWriter wrote:

Crap. They are a rip off.

Why have a monitored alarm when you can have your alarm txt your phone directly?

What's the benefit of a monitored alarm contract unless the monitoring company are going to send one of their vans out to check your premesis?

Imagine the scene, 04:00 in the morning, your house broken into by some scumbag after your car keys, alarm goes off, your inexpensive system sends you a text in your bedroom to say your alarm has gone off, great system.

Alternative monitored alarm, hit the panic button and you get a garda response in less than 5 minutes............

Scene 2) You are on holiday in spain, (that is unless you feel holidays are a rip off too) your house gets broken into, your great cheap and very effective alarm sends a text to tel you your house has been broken into..........enjoy the rest of your holiday.

Secene 3) Your house gets broken into, your wonderful cheap and not a rip off alarm sends a text to you..............oh no out of coverage, you don't get the text until back in range................great system, saved lots of money but no use at all.................so who is talking crap!

DublinWriter

BOBTHESHOOTER wrote:

so who is talking crap!

You are if you think the guards will be out to you in 5 minutes.

Sparks

Actually, the Gardai were up to my house inside ten minutes. Mind you, given that it was the local Firearms Officer who arrived, there might have been a bit of incentive involved there

Sparks

flight93 wrote:

An important fact to remember is that if you tell your insurance company that you have an alarm to avail of the discount in the small print it will tell you that if you havnt set your alarm and you are broken into the insurance is NULL & VOID. Is it worth it for 5%??? They can check if your alarm was on or not.

Well, thing is, in the small print they also say that you have to have locked your doors as well or you won't get a payout. So whether or not you have an alarm fitted, you have to exercise a reasonable standard of care. You leave the front door flapping in the breeze with noone at home so that anyone can walk in and your insurance won't pay out the full whack for items stolen (according to our policy, anyway, but I'm fairly certain it's universal).

By the way, thanks for the sympathies everyone. It's been an annoying little episode for me, it's been nice to hear a pleasant word or two about it!

flight93

Sparks, believe it or not most people do not turn on their alarm (stupid as it may sound). This is especialy true when they have just popped out for 5 minutes etc. I have seen this time and time again. If you wer to leave a door unlocked the insurance company have no way of proving this, perhaps the thief has a copy of the key etc. (unlike not turning on the alarm). For those of you that think monitored alarms are more expensive than alarms that are connected to a monitoring station guess what?? THEY ARE NOT!! They are even made by the same companies! You will find that over 90%of the hard wired (far superior to wireless) alarm systems are HKC, Aritech or Astec. This is the case regardless of being monitored by a monitoring station or not. If your alarm can only ring out using a landline all the monitoring in the world is a waste if the intuder can just cut it!! Install a GSM module or radio link (more expensive). If your alarm rings you directly you can change it yourself if you are away on holiday so that it rings someone closer to home. If someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night to rob your car keys the alarm with keep ringing up to 4 NUMBERS in rotation until it gets the desired response. If you have any friends left in this world one of them will ring the cops! If you have a standard monitored alarm they have cut the phone line and no help is on the way!!!! Anyway do yourself a favour, give the guy the keys its a sh!t car anyway!

Saddlebags

First, sorry to hear you became another statistic, Sparks.:(

Are not monitered alarms only a requirement for dealers?
For ordinary licence holders its up the Super if he wants to impose that condition on you - not all do.
Given the new Garda policy on monitored alarms, waste of time unless you live near a 24 hr station (double activation and an agreed meet at the premises - read the policy on the Garda site!!!!).
Best system is a hard-wired perimiter system and if your Super lets you, then a digi that rings you direct. GSM's are expensive but you can thwart the scum by using a digi with a line voltage moniter and connecting a relay to your bell outputs! Then, if the scum cut your phone line, the alarm will sound WHILE THEY ARE STILL OUTSIDE.
Just my tuppence worth!

Clare gunner

flight93 wrote:

Very sorry to dissapoint you but the PSA is just a scam and against current EU law (due to be challanged shortly). I can tell you that because I have first hand experience with them. Eddie Hobbs wrote a very accurate artical about them in the cork examiner a while ago. The PSA will not ensure higher standards, only higher prices.
There is still no regognised qualification for an alarm installer in this country, just people like the PSA looking to get hands on your money. Only afraction of alarm installers in the country are with the PSA (the same with door men and security personell). They even want to licence people who install locks in the future (unworkable). If you want to know more PM me. The PSA has been informed of sevral alarm installers installing alarms without a "licence", they responded by saying they "did not have the manpower" to deal with it. What techincal qualifications do you need to join the PSA as an intruder alarm installer???? NONE. I think this speaks volumes.


Eircom Phone Watch alarms generally have no outside bell box, only a dummy. This often means that when they go off they can not be heard by neighbours. So if an intruder were to cut the phone line and then break in he has in many cases got around you Phone Watch alarm system.

Never a truer word said there:(
Question How many of your neighbours have responded or done anything when an outside alarm goes off???More like "it's that feckin Bloggs alarm going off again."Too many shoddily installed alarms being set off by domestic pets,wind rattle etc.Outside alarms are now just apart of modern day backround noise.So a dummy box just as well serves a purpose without annoying all and sundry.

Oh BTW should mention.DONT think the GSM system is impregnable.There are devices out there that will negate GSM signals.Fortuneatly they are difficult enough to get and VERY expensive.
However just to let everyone know that it is vunerable.

rrpc

CG wrote:

Question How many of your neighbours have responded or done anything when an outside alarm goes off???More like "it's that feckin Bloggs alarm going off again."Too many shoddily installed alarms being set off by domestic pets,wind rattle etc.Outside alarms are now just apart of modern day backround noise.So a dummy box just as well serves a purpose without annoying all and sundry

If it's that 'feckin Bloggs' alarm again, then there is a problem with the alarm that should be rectified to prevent falsies. I live in a remote area, and a neighbour has an alarm for which I have the code and a spare key to get in should the alarm go off. The point is that if the alarm goes off, I respond to it if I am nearby and hear it. I'm not going to hear a dummy am I?

Putting in an alarm is only part of the job. You should also inform your neighbours and give them a means of access so that they are not annoyed by falsies and can help with your security.

Clare gunner

rrpc wrote:

If it's that 'feckin Bloggs' alarm again, then there is a problem with the alarm that should be rectified to prevent falsies. I live in a remote area, and a neighbour has an alarm for which I have the code and a spare key to get in should the alarm go off. The point is that if the alarm goes off, I respond to it if I am nearby and hear it. I'm not going to hear a dummy am I?

Putting in an alarm is only part of the job. You should also inform your neighbours and give them a means of access so that they are not annoyed by falsies and can help with your security.

That might be fine if you know your neighbours for 20 odd years and are really rural.I live in a area that was ruaral but is now becoming light suburburan.I dont know one tenth of the people here now.I sure as Hell wouldnt give them my keys.And it is THEIR damn alarms that keep going off.
Mostly townies who have moved into the country and think it is the same as the city.I have asked three of them to fix their alarms and been told the usual "who the FK are you?telling us how to live,just because you live in a big house,Think you are Lord of the Manor etc etc?? The same ones who ring the Gaurds if I decide to bust some clays on a weekend,or if the farmer spreads slurry they bitch and moan about the smell.:rolleyes:
Nah.THOSE kind of neighbours anyone can do without.

Chipboard

Clare gunner wrote:

I dont know one tenth of the people here now.I sure as Hell wouldnt give them my keys.

I have to agree, too many keyholders is as bad as no security at all.

Clare gunner wrote:

The same ones who ring the Gaurds if I decide to bust some clays on a weekend,or if the farmer spreads slurry they bitch and moan about the smell

Yep, we have that scenario here too. Its similar to a culchie (like myself) moving to Amien St and then complaining about all the trains.

As far as response times are concerned if they responded in 5 minutes it was only luck, even the guards would admit that. Sure the couldn't respond immediately unless they were sitting on their hands in the station waiting for the call.

I worked for a very well known and reputable security company in Dublin when I was in college and I can tell you nobody put the boot down when responding to an alarm activation. Security guards (or cops for that matter) dont get paid enough to get beaten up once a week.

I used to keep an eye out for alarm activations here but I got the cops out a couple of months ago to what me and my wife were convinced was a burglary in progress. In fairness to the cops they really swung into action. When they discovered it was a false alarm they still thanked me for being vigilant but the as5hole who owns the house (and whose pregnant wife was in it at the time) didnt even acknowledge me the following day so from now on I think I would have to see a missile being launched from the green before I'd pick up the phone.

Best job is a digital communicator (c€150) linked to your alarm which phones you and if it doesnt get the required pin number continues to phone your wife, mother, father, friends etc until it does get the pin number.

As far as the GSM blocker is concerned, I wouldn't worry. People think that criminals are smart and sophisticated because they're portrayed this way by the likes of George Clooney etc but in reality most of them are as thick as shlt. I'd bet that if they're smart enough to have a GSM blocker the Gardi Shiciloni won't cause them much trouble.

If I get broken into, I want them two guys who were guarding the US embassy to respond.....

flight93

DONT think the GSM system is impregnable.There are devices out there that will negate GSM signals.Fortuneatly they are difficult enough to get and VERY expensive.
However just to let everyone know that it is vunerable.[/QUOTE]

Yes you are correct, but the intruder has to know that you have a gsm module, most people dont have one. My local super (Bray) will accept a GSM module backing up a standard phone line for a Registered Firearms Dealer to open. I must admit I expected him to insist on a radio link, but he didnt. I would be suprised if any scumbag that would have the equipment and knowhow would bother using it on a house. But if he did, he has no way of knowing if he sucessfully blocked the signal or not, and he would have to know what network your alarm was using (O2 Vodafone etc.). Most people use a pay as you go sim card (like me) in the gsm module, €10 credit will go along way! I do a test call every month or so just to see that all is well. Credit applied on line. Expect to pay €250-300 for a gsm module. Install module at the highest point possible in the house/building, this gives better chance of getting a strong signal and makes it harder (nearly impossible) to block.

flight93

Clare gunner wrote:

Outside alarms are now just apart of modern day backround noise.So a dummy box just as well serves a purpose without annoying all and sundry.

If your alarm of good quality, is installed properly and is well maintained there should be no false alarms, so if your alarm goes off you want the world to know about it! More so if you have firearms in your house! If you never have false alarms, when your alarm goes off people notice and often take action (I know this is often not the case).

If a false alarm sounds every day near you do something about it. This is noise pollution. It also makes the general public ignore alarms when they shouldnt, like the boy who cried wolf! Apart from that the noise drives me mad!!

The other inportant thing to realise is that if your house is broken into, and the cops are responding it makes it much easier for them to find your house, " Its the one making all the noise with the strobe going off!"

flight93

I am very suprised that the cops have never made any attempt to see what security I have in place. They have never even made reccomandations to me or asked any questions. I have always stated that they are welcome to inspect if they wish when I have made an application.

Clare gunner

[.

If your alarm of good quality, is installed properly and is well maintained there should be no false alarms, so if your alarm goes off you want the world to know about it! More so if you have firearms in your house! If you never have false alarms, when your alarm goes off people notice and often take action (I know this is often not the case).

Yea,the world might know about it,but will it respond???? Not likely! Who is going to sally forth to help ones neighbours these days.In the old West maybe.But not anymore.It is a FK you Jack,I'm all right attitude these days.
Having guns in your house IS the surest way to get prompt Garda attention.It was in the Garda questionare when Eircom installed ours.When ours did once go off by accident,I had a callback from a Superintendant asking was everything all right:eek: :eek: .I didnt realise I was THAT much of a VIP,that a Super responds to my alarm calls.I thought at the time it was him confirming my pistol application:o NO it was because of the firearms,and proably as they would have had an armed unit handy as well a mile plus away in a famous northern Limerick suburb,much in the news these days.

If a false alarm sounds every day near you do something about it. This is noise pollution. It also makes the general public ignore alarms when they shouldnt, like the boy who cried wolf! Apart from that the noise drives me mad!!

Been there ,done it.But said neighbours see post above dont consider it a major concern,since they are never in during the weekends when it goes off and dont want to hear about it either.Belive you me the thoughts I have had concerning alarm boxes,and suppressed .22 rounds.....:mad:

BTW re the GSM blockers.They work on ALL frequencies irrevelant of phone company or frequency.But as you said it isnt an average gurrier piece of kit.At 10/15k and available only to addresses outside the EU,it is not very common...yet.

hillybilly

If at all possible avoid aircom like the plague. They are a rip off.I went to town this morning and wher i got back about two hours later the alarm was blaring away,i went in side and turned it off ,checked the safe and then the rest of the house,everything ok. I got talking to the neighbour and he said it was going off for about an hour and a half. I rang eircom to see why they had not rang me (like they say in their ad ).It turns out that their monitering centre was not picking up any signal from my house . my alarm is gsm digtialiy monitered. Eircom have no way of telling if your alarm is working or not,if your phone line going to the house is cut they have no way telling .So much for piece of mind.

Clare gunner

Signal loss,I have had that happen too.A regular PITA.Would think that by now there would be some sort of system that could interrogate each number once an hour to see is it functioning.All you can do is check the panel daily/weekly that the service still has a signal.

mikeanywhere

I arranged for the PSA to give a talk here in Galway along with the NSAI for guys installing intruder alarms and it included a talk about monitored alarms.

Costs really are down to whatever the installer wants to charge. As long as it is signed off and have a certificate to prove it then you will be fine. Monitoring varies so much depending again on what the installer is offering or the provider he uses offers.

If you want more details PM me and I can go through it in more detail.

flight93

The NSAI who I have met and talked to will let just about anyone join that is prepared to pay thier fee. No qualifications at all are required. It is a money making racket, that is all. I have seen so much work done over the years by "alarm engineers" who are no more an engineer that the man on the moon. The standards are often sh!t. Ring the NSAI and see how many alarm installers they have thrown out for breaking regulations. See how close that number is to zero! Look around, how many alarms do you see?? Lots, ask the NSAI how many inspectors do they have to enfose these regulations! Now if a member does not pay his annual subscription, that may be different! If you are a registered alarm installer (in NSAI) you can have your systems monitored, recieve a "back hander" from the monitoring station as well as having a lucritive maintenence contract with the sucker or er I mean customer.

Read the artical that Eddie Hobbs wrote in the Examiner about the PSA and it will open your eyes. He also did an interesting interview on "the last word" about it. Another scam, again no qualifications required. Just like the NSAI they have not got the men or interest to police it, but it will make them alot of money. All that happens is that the customer pays more and the service gets worse!

jamesbond

hi lampor,

there should be no reason why phonewatch won't tyake you on,you may need it updated to en and with the new garda policy you will need to have a digi fitted that can transmit pri and verified signals.
there are a number of companys that offer mon but may require same softwear and hardware changes to comply with regs,hope this helps you on your quest for mon.

regards
bond