Passat/Alfa/BMW

Anan1

My mother is thinking of replacing her 98 Alfa 156 2.0, bought new. She's thinking of diesel this time around, and the three cars she has in mind at the moment are the Passat 170bhp, the Alfa 159 2.4d, and the BMW 320d. She'd prefer auto, which, AFAIK, is not available in the Alfa. Whatever she buys will be driven for 8-10 years, so resale value is not really a concern. Having just completed 110,000 mechanically uneventful miles in the 156, she's not concerned about Alfa reliability. Ditto the dealers, as the car will be going to TI.

So, given that she will be spending long periods in this car (Sandycove to beyond the airport & back every day), what would you recommend? I haven't driven any of them yet (don't worry, I will). My initial thoughts are that the Alfa would be the nicest place to be, but the Passat has that gearbox. The BMW probably has the best handling, but that's not really her thing. She's also somewhat uncomfortable with the image.

junkyard

What about a Ford Mondeo? Passats over rated rep. mobile, Alfa's a piece of junk, personally I'd buy the BMW any day but if your concerned about image the Mondeo is a fine car and good value but won't hold it long term which is not a concern of yours anyway.

Anan1

As I have already stated, she is completely unconcerned by tales of Alfa reliability. The Mondeo's interior is not particularly attractive, so that's out. Why the BMW over the Passat?

junkyard

A set of pink knitted seat covers should do the trick.:D

Anan1

No offence, but I think they'd suit you more!;)

Anyway, why the BMW over the Passat?

bazz26

How about the new Lexus IS220D? Not sure if it is available with an auto yet though.

Anan1

bazz26 wrote:

How about the new Lexus IS220D? Not sure if it is available with an auto yet though.

I thought of that, but have read a few reviews that were less than flattering. I think I remember reading that it won't be available in auto, but if it were then it'd be worth a look.

maidhc

My grandfather went for an 06 Passat comfortline because he loved the interior. It wouldn't be my personal choice, but it is definately a nice place to sit; and is complete with weird twirly cup holders

He hates the electric parking brake and complains about the car stalling, I dont know if it is him or the car though. He had an A4, so he is used to the car and engine, and he gets the idea about the brake releasing automatically, but he still isnt happy.

Anan1

maidhc wrote:

My grandfather went for an 06 Passat comfortline because he loved the interior. It wouldn't be my personal choice, but it is definately a nice place to sit; and is complete with weird twirly cup holders

He hates the electric parking brake and complains about the car stalling, I dont know if it is him or the car though. He had an A4, so he is used to the car and engine, and he gets the idea about the brake releasing automatically, but he still isnt happy.

Is he just unhappy with those things, or does he not like the car in general?

bazz26

Well then if she had no trouble with the 156 then she should probably go with the 159 unless she wants a change. I heard though that the 1.9 JTD 16 valve 150bhp diesel is the one to go for. She could spend the difference on some nice options such as leather and sat nav.

Anan1

bazz26 wrote:

Well then if she had no trouble with the 156 then she should probably go with the 159 unless she wants a change. I heard though that the 1.9 JTD 16 valve 150bhp diesel is the one to go for. She could spend the difference on some nice options such as leather and sat nav.

She almost certainly would, except that the 159 isn't available in automatic. I haven't driven a 159, but I'm assuming the 2.4 is more flexible than the 1.9, and would therefore require fewer gearchanges?

junkyard

The reason for the BMW over the Passat is simply build quality,I know a lot of people here on the boards would sooner go for looks over quality but I wouldn't. I sell cars for a living and am involved with fleet car services and from experience VW's have been dropped from the fleet car list for a lot of the banks and large companies because of unreliability and poor quality. Fair enough if they've got their act together but I wouldn't fancy paying 30k or so to be a guinea pig for VW while the iron out their "few little niggles". When buying a car for my mother one of the first things I'd consider is reliability to be honest and I would be very concerned if a car had issues in this department.

Anan1

junkyard wrote:

The reason for the BMW over the Passat is simply build quality,I know a lot of people here on the boards would sooner go for looks over quality but I wouldn't. I sell cars for a living and am involved with fleet car services and from experience VW's have been dropped from the fleet car list for a lot of the banks and large companies because of unreliability and poor quality. Fair enough if they've got their act together but I wouldn't fancy paying 30k or so to be a guinea pig for VW while the iron out their "few little niggles". When buying a car for my mother one of the first things I'd consider is reliability to be honest and I would be very concerned if a car had issues in this department.

Now that you mention it, I've heard one or two bad stories from friends with newish VWs recently. Are BMW much better?

junkyard

I haven't heard of as many horror stories anyway my last eight cars have been BMW and I can assure you I wouldn't be driving them if they weren't any good. I used to drive Mercs. mainly as the older ones were good enough but unfortunately the new ones are rubbish too. Generally speaking I'd stay away from VW/Audi/Merc/Seat/Skoda remember they've already stiffed their loyal supporters once and I shouldn't think they would have a problem doing them again. (1.3 million Mercs. recalled last year alone due to all sorts of problem mainly build quality)

Spitfire666

Skoda isnt a bad option either, octavia is practicly a passat and comes in an auto too. or even go bigger and check out the skoda superb?
We've had about 5 octavias between my mom dad and uncle and there great cars in my opinion. good milage and very reliable.

Lex Luthor

Anan1 wrote:

My mother is thinking of replacing her 98 Alfa 156 2.0, bought new. She's thinking of diesel this time around, and the three cars she has in mind at the moment are the Passat 170bhp, the Alfa 159 2.4d, and the BMW 320d. She'd prefer auto, which, AFAIK, is not available in the Alfa. Whatever she buys will be driven for 8-10 years, so resale value is not really a concern. Having just completed 110,000 mechanically uneventful miles in the 156, she's not concerned about Alfa reliability. Ditto the dealers, as the car will be going to TI.

Mechanically uneventful: I take it you mean after at least 2 cambelt replacements and various suspension component replacements?
I've done 66k miles in my 156 and its nearing its 2nd cambelt change in another year and I fear another few wishbones and bushes coming up.
However, Alfa "claim" to have sorted these issues with the 159.

My advice would be to get her to drive each one of them first....

Does she need to get a car as big as these for her daily commute?

What about the Golf 2.0TDi Auto?

dts

Has to be the Alfa as I am an Alfa nut.
On saying that just got rid of a 03 156 due to suspension problems and didn’t like the front lights on the 159. Also the wheels on the two models they are offering at the moment don’t look as good as the one in the brochure.
If she doesn’t need the room I would go for a GT.
I still have a 147 but got attracted to the SUV world after test driving an Xtrail so bought one.
If Alfa did an SUV I would be the first one there to try one out. Or if Ireland suddenly got smooth roads I would go back to Alfa. Until then for the family car I must look else where.

maidhc

Anan1 wrote:

Is he just unhappy with those things, or does he not like the car in general?

He loves the car, just the parking brake he hates.

I dont know about the mechanical reliability, but it does seem to be built very well.

Henry Ford III

bazz26 wrote:

How about the new Lexus IS220D? Not sure if it is available with an auto yet though.

Engine is as rough as a badgers arse apparently. Avoid.

Anan1

Lex Luthor wrote:

Mechanically uneventful: I take it you mean after at least 2 cambelt replacements and various suspension component replacements?
I've done 66k miles in my 156 and its nearing its 2nd cambelt change in another year and I fear another few wishbones and bushes coming up.
However, Alfa "claim" to have sorted these issues with the 159.

My advice would be to get her to drive each one of them first....

Does she need to get a car as big as these for her daily commute?

What about the Golf 2.0TDi Auto?

Her car recently had its third cambelt change, suspension is still as tight as new. It's needed a few variators, and a couple of sets of brake discs, and that's pretty much it. To be honest, she's not too bothered about servicing bills as long as the car is reliable between services, which her old car was. She's definitely going to drive all of them, I'm really just casting around for ideas first so I'll know what to look out for. The Golf is too small, both in terms of crash safety and just as a place to sit. Same goes for the Skoda Octavia. I'm not sure about the Superb, I've been in a couple of taxis and they feel very, very long.

Lex Luthor

Anan1 wrote:

suspension is still as tight as new

she must be driving on glass everday, cos its the suspension wishbones and rear bushes that constantly give way on these.

None the less between services, I'd have to agree with you that the car has given very little trouble. However, its only 6yrs old with 66k miles. I'd like to be still saying the same when its 8-9yrs old and 100k on the clock....but your mothers car seems to suggest it will.

Anan1

Lex Luthor wrote:

she must be driving on glass everday, cos its the suspension wishbones and rear bushes that constantly give way on these.

None the less between services, I'd have to agree with you that the car has given very little trouble. However, its only 6yrs old with 66k miles. I'd like to be still saying the same when its 8-9yrs old and 100k on the clock....but your mothers car seems to suggest it will.

To be honest, I'm surprised myself. I would have thought that any car would need periodic suspension work, and particularly the 156 given its firm, short-travel suspension. All I can say, though, is I drove the car last week and it's an eye-opener.

Lex Luthor

Anan1 wrote:

To be honest, I'm surprised myself. I would have thought that any car would need periodic suspension work, and particularly the 156 given its firm, short-travel suspension. All I can say, though, is I drove the car last week and it's an eye-opener.

so what kind of money is she looking for it?

bazz26

To OP. The best thing to do imo is for you and your mom to arrange test drives of all 3 cars. Othewise you will get "buy this one it's great" or "avoid that one it's rubish" comments all day (including myself btw). I havn't driven any of these cars so I will not disregard any of them off hand. Once you and your mom have test driven them she can then make up her own mind as to which one she feels right for her. Best of luck.

Anan1

bazz26 wrote:

To OP. The best thing to do imo is for you and your mom to arrange test drives of all 3 cars. Othewise you will get "buy this one it's great" or "avoid that one it's rubish" comments all day (including myself btw). I havn't driven any of these cars so I will not disregard any of them off hand. Once you and your mom have test driven them she can then make up her own mind as to which one she feels right for her. Best of luck.

Thanks for that, that's what she's planning to do. I'm really just trying to gather a few ideas, things to look for when looking at each car.

Anan1

Lex Luthor wrote:

so what kind of money is she looking for it?

I can't imagine it being worth much, think I'll probably adopt it myself.;)

unkel

I agree with the other posters suggesting a test drive in all of them. Your aunt seems to be very happy with the Alfa, but how important is auto?

Anan1 wrote:

She almost certainly would, except that the 159 isn't available in automatic

Yeah noticed that too. The 166 2.4JTD is available with a 5-speed autobox in most countries, but doesn't seem to be in Ireland. Anybody know about this? Would she consider a 166 if it had auto? Edit: from alfaromeo.ie there is news that the 2.4JTD will be available. No mention of auto though...

Anan1 wrote:

I'm assuming the 2.4 is more flexible than the 1.9, and would therefore require fewer gearchanges?

Both have that typical common rail diesel characteristic: high flat torque curve, so she should be fine with both. Excellent engines the pair of them anyway. The 2.4JTD was the first common rail in the world

Performance wise, all do well with the 1.9JTD manual and Passat TDI 170 DSG being slightly slower than 320d auto and 2.4JTD manual

I've no doubt the Passat will be the cheapest to own

Then again, your aunt doesn't seem too concerned budget wise, so if she can afford the 320d auto, why not go for it?

Anan1

Re the 320d, the way I see it (so far, without having driven these cars) is that it's probably a better drive if you're pressing on. The points against it are as follows:

1. It has an objectionable (to my mother) image.

2. People show less goodwill to BMW drivers than to something banal, like a Passat

3. It's smaller than either of the others, and around 10k more expensive, even with less equipment.

I suppose what I'm really wondering is whether it would be a nicer car to drive for her, as opposed to for a driver like me?

unkel

Anan1 wrote:

1. It has an objectionable (to my mother) image

Ah well, that's the end of it then

Some good news for your mother I came across just now:

All five engines are mated to six-speed manual gearboxes, with automatic transmissions becoming available on 1.9 and 2.4 JTDM and 3.2 V6 JTS versions later in 2006

Tell her to get the 1.9JTD 16V auto. Happy days

Hotwheels

Alfa 159 1.9JTDm 16V gets my vote, I'm getting one meself

ds20prefecture

Anan1 wrote:

Re the 320d, the way I see it (so far, without having driven these cars) is that it's probably a better drive if you're pressing on. The points against it are as follows:

I've driven a 156 diesel and a 320d, both last generation. The 320 is the nicer car to drive by the slightest margin, but both felt very nose heavy compared to their petrol sisters. The engine makes it - a 2.0 tspark vs a 318i, i'd have the Alfa any time.

The new 320d looks bland and seems very noisy when cold. The 159 sounds smoother but I'm not sold on the looks and the front overhang seems almost as ridiculous as the 407's. I've driven neither. The passat is just frumpy and overpriced. The new jetta looks less lardy and probably is every bit as big as the Alfa or 3.

The Octavia is not small at all, by the way. It is easily bigger than a 156 and I doubt that it is much smaller in real terms than the 159.