Esat non-upgrade, its fraud right??

federerfan

So heres the thing, I never got my upgrade, and after a long and stressful 15 call/13 email saga, it seems I never will. Don't want to go into it here, sick of it now...


But wait, lets say I wasn't a techie, and didnt have a clue what 1meg BB was, never mind 2meg....

I would continue happily paying my 30 euro till doomsday, even though I should be only paying 20 euro.

I'm wondering just how many people are in this situation right now. And we all know what a f##k up Bt's billing system is, it sure as hell aint gonna pick it up.

If my company offered 50% extra free and then half filled the box, we'd have every reg and compliance w##k#r from here to Dubai knocking down our door....

But it's fraud right? BT are committing fraud....

fedfan

philologos

im on 750Kbps atm because they have been lagging for the last 3 days...

Gregor Samsa

federerfan wrote:

But it's fraud right? BT are committing fraud....

Edit: Scratch what I said.

It looks like since you can't get the 2Mb product with the upgrade, you think BT should have automatically downgraded you to the cheaper 1Mb one (and they didn't). Thast seems like a fair expectation to me.

Sponge Bob

phutyle wrote:

It looks like since you can't get the 2Mb product with the upgrade, you think BT should have automatically downgraded you to the cheaper 1Mb one (and they didn't). Thast seems like a fair expectation to me.

When the 1mbit to 2mbit upgrade tool place in January eirocm retested all the lines.

Certain lines were deemed as not fit for 1 > 2 Mbit upgrades after this test.

Therefore Eircom Wholesale were supposed to 'send' a list of these incapable lines to their resellers . These lines qualified for a free 'downgrade' ...actually a free administrative status quo ante ..... to what they were capable of which is 1Mbit .

I am not sure if Eircom Wholesale did so or if the list was then checked by BT and if the customers who did not technically qualify for 2Mbits were duly informed or as is most important with BT ......whether their billing system was modified to reflect this reality.

The majority of those with 1Mbit were upgraded to 2Mbit and could take it and did.

It is only fraud if BT have that list and did not inform you that you are on it , have a line incapable of supporting 2Mbits AND are being billed for 2Mbits rather than being transferred to the cheaper 1Mbit package and billed for that instead .

There are people out there whose lines tested fine but whose lines have degraded or developed a fault because of non maintenance by Eircom in the interim. Thats not BT's fault at all.

cgarvey

federerfan wrote:

But it's fraud right? BT are committing fraud....

'fraid not .. the product is an "up to" product. So your line was "up to 1Mb" and now that same product is an "up to 2Mb" product. It's the same product, so BT Ireland are under no obligation to change you to the lower product (as it's not the product you signed up to). They should, of course, especially as seen as eircom wholesale are doing the switch for free, but they aren't obliged to.

If the problem was widespread there might be a case for misleading advertising, but it's not.

So if you're line isn't capable of 2Mb, then ask BT to switch you down for free. Ask them to reward your patience on the matter by refunding you the difference since the upgrade.

Sponge Bob

cgarvey wrote:

'fraid not .. the product is an "up to" product.

Hmm, dunno. Both the 1Mbit and 2Mbit are:

a) UP TO 1Mbit or UP TO 2Mbit as cgarvey correctly said
b) GUARANTEED 256k in both cases ...no matter what you pay for it .

But if Eircom have changed the supplied product at the wholesale level surely that change should be reflected back. Otherwise BT can sell 1Mbits as 5Mbits and charge for 5Mbits and not be found guilty of 'passing off' goods that are 'unfit for the purpose' ....and in fairness they do not do that !

federerfan

cgarvey wrote:

So if you're line isn't capable of 2Mb, then ask BT to switch you down for free. Ask them to reward your patience on the matter by refunding you the difference since the upgrade.

Yep, thats what happened, after 15 calls/13 emails they even told me how much I owe them (long story)

Except the line is fine, just some f##k up between them and eircon.

Lol, then one of their managers mails me complaining about the tone of my emails to them, whilst trying to get my account sorted.

Have a good mind to post it here for the laff...


But getting back to my point, I wonder how many non techie people are continuing to pay for 2 meg while recieving 1...

Fedfan

Sponge Bob

Not that many in fairness. Most got their free upgrade no worries.

federerfan

Sponge Bob wrote:

Not that many in fairness. Most got their free upgrade no worries.

speaking from a position of knowledge?


fedfan

Sponge Bob

I know for a fact that most BT customers who had a 1Mbit connection on the 1st of January now have functional 2Mbits and are not paying extra for it.

I know for a fact that customers of other Eircom Wholesale resellers are in the same boat.

I know for a fact that some exchanges caused problems and would not take the reconfigurations on time but were generally dealt with in feb.

I DO NOT KNOW whats happening to the resellers customers who were never getting upgraded beacuse the Eircom Wholesale line retests indicated that they could not support 2Mbits and would have to remain on 1Mbit.

federerfan

Sponge Bob wrote:

I know for a fact that most BT customers who had a 1Mbit connection on the 1st of January now have functional 2Mbits and are not paying extra for it.

I know for a fact that customers of other Eircom Wholesale resellers are in the same boat.

I know for a fact that some exchanges caused problems and would not take the reconfigurations on time but were generally dealt with in feb.

I DO NOT KNOW whats happening to the resellers customers who were never getting upgraded beacuse the Eircom Wholesale line retests indicated that they could not support 2Mbits and would have to remain on 1Mbit.

Obviously BT management then, with all these facts.


Let me put my point another way.

When I chose 1meg broadband, it was because 1meg was all I needed.
When I got the fab email on 20th Jan, it said and I quote "From 23rd January, BT Broadband will feature faster download speeds* for the same price."

Nowhere on that mail did it actually say, if you are happy with your current speed you can get a discount.

But there is a Broadband for 20 euro logo in the top right corner to cover themselves...

Like I said earlier, in my industry, this kind of vague advertising, flip flopping and general muppetness would be punished...


What does ComReg do anyway?

Fedfan

sapper

I signed up for the 2meg just after Christmas and before the upgrade. I finally got connected after the upgrade, but at 2meg even though I am now entitled to 3meg. Been on to customer support about 5/6 times and every time I am told I will be upgraded "in a few days".

I was never informed by BT about the upgrade. I had to check my own speed and inform BT I was on the slower speed. If I hadn't done so I would be paying the what is now the 3meg price for a 2meg (aka 1.7) service.

I wonder how many people who applied for 2meg a few weeks prior to the upgrade were put on 2meg after the upgrade?

Sponge Bob

federerfan wrote:

When I chose 1meg broadband, it was because 1meg was all I needed.
When I got the fab email on 20th Jan, it said and I quote "From 23rd January, BT Broadband will feature faster download speeds* for the same price."

Nowhere on that mail did it actually say, if you are happy with your current speed you can get a discount.

And most did get that from Eircom wholesale. Your problem is that you DO NOT RECOGNISE that the package you were on BACK THEN is now a 2Mbit package since Eircom Wholesale reconfigured their exchanges and that a COMPLETELY NEW 1mbit package was introduced thereafter.

If you cannot avail of the 2Mbit for technical reasons, and if your carrier BT was informed by Eircom Wholesale of this, you should be downgraded to the NEW 1Mbit package which costs less and that downgrade should be free and you should pay less . If Eircom maintain that you are on 2Mbits and technically capable of 2Mbits then its can of worms time dude

You are changing packages in this case and not getting a discount on your existing package !

But there is a Broadband for 20 euro logo in the top right corner to cover themselves...

That is a new package, it costs €20 , thats that. No false anything about it as long as BT bill you correctly.

Like I said earlier, in my industry, this kind of vague advertising, flip flopping and general muppetness would be punished...

hmmm, the only regulator in Ireland that punishes the behaviour you mention above is the IFSRA

What does ComReg do anyway?

Write reports all the time telling us what they, as a regulator, cannot do .....but that they are visionary and great anyway ....oh and lose court cases and appeals to their inept decisions every other week.

Their classic in recent years was that they decided that the Internet was Legally Functional at a speed of 0kbits because 2.4kbits was too fast.

federerfan

I bow to your superior knowledge and your ability to tell me what my problem is....


My carrier is BT, the email was from BT, Eircom say my line is fine, BT say Eircom is at fault....

None of this would have come out if I hadnt chased it...

Its fraud....

Fedfan

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote:

If Eircom maintain that you are on 2Mbits and technically capable of 2Mbits then its can of worms time dude

Because then , according to Eircom Wholesale , your line is fine as long as it can do 256Kbits. If you were on a 1 Mbit line not a 2Mbit line and it could do 256k it is equally fine ......albeit cheaper !

HTH

kaizersoze

federerfan wrote:

When I chose 1meg broadband, it was because 1meg was all I needed.
When I got the fab email on 20th Jan, it said and I quote "From 23rd January, BT Broadband will feature faster download speeds* for the same price."

And at the bottom of the same email it stated:

*Due to line quality characteristics, some customers may not experience the new speed increases in full

Sponge Bob

I didn't accuse him of reading all the way down did I ????

jor el

federerfan wrote:

I bow to your superior knowledge and your ability to tell me what my problem is....


My carrier is BT, the email was from BT, Eircom say my line is fine, BT say Eircom is at fault....

None of this would have come out if I hadnt chased it...

Its fraud....

Fedfan

It is if BT are charging you for a product they know you can't get. Now since Eircom are reporting that the line does support 2Mbps speeds, then you can get this product and since it is still the one you signed up for (the speeds were re-defined but the product is the same) they have the right to continue billing you for it. If for some reason, you're not getting the full speeds, then this could be a matter of contention or some other issue.

What speed did the stats page in the router config report it was syncing at? If it said 2M/256k, then there is nothing wrong here. You may not get the speed, but you are technically capable of getting it. If it reported you were still on 1M/128k, then yes, BT were indeed overcharging you. It wouldn't amount to fraud until they actually bill you and take the money, as far as I am aware.

dub45

Have you actually checked your line quality?

Some info here;

http://www.adslguide.org.uk/qanda.asp?faq=technical

cgarvey

jor el wrote:

It is if BT are charging you for a product they know you can't get.

They're selling him the same product he's always had, so it's not. Sure, it's disgraceful that they've made it so hard for him to downgrade (especially when it costs them close to damn all), but it's not fraud.

iano

federerfan wrote:

Its fraud....

Big difference between fraud (a deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain) and error or incompetence.

federerfan

iano wrote:

Big difference between fraud (a deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain) and error or incompetence.

"I'm soooo sorry your honor, I made a mistake and transferred that 500,000 into my account by mistake!"

"OK young man. Case dismissed, and dont make that error again"

Diabolus

federerfan wrote:

"I'm soooo sorry your honor, I made a mistake and transferred that 500,000 into my account by mistake!"

"OK young man. Case dismissed, and dont make that error again"

Ur a bit of a tit aren't you.

federerfan

Diabolus wrote:

Ur a bit of a tit aren't you.

Diabolus:

Location:
Dublin - South
Occupation:
Tech Support


U wouldnt work for BT by any chance? In that one sentence you sounded like one of the humourless, frustrated muppets that work in there....


Fedfan

zuma

Should federerfan and Diabolus be given a 1 week ban for their bickering...????????????????????????????

cgarvey

federerfan wrote:

U wouldnt work for BT by any chance? In that one sentence you sounded like one of the humourless, frustrated muppets that work in there....

And you expect those same people to be interested in helping you out?

federerfan

cgarvey wrote:

And you expect those same people to be interested in helping you out?

Naw...I just expect them to do their job...

But thats way too much to ask...

Explosive_Cornflake

Want to lay off them a bit? You'll get no where with that attitude.

Nietzschean

he's basically attacked anyone in this thread who's tried to help, what a tit, should defo be banned for a while.

How long before he accuses boards.ie of being a subsidary of esat?

federerfan

Nietzschean wrote:

he's basically attacked anyone in this thread who's tried to help, what a tit, should defo be banned for a while.

How long before he accuses boards.ie of being a subsidary of esat?

Whoa, this thread wasnt instigated as a look for help, if management in BT cant/wont solve my problem, then I'm sure no one here can.

I didnt attack anyone till I was attacked in post #23, when I was referred to as a tit. I guess the smiley face I put in my posts was overlooked...

I instigated this thread, with the intention of steering as many people as I can away from BT, because of the scandalous treatment I recieved from them.


I apologise if anyone feels I was attacking them

But its still fraud....


Fedfan

federerfan

Now that I've had time to think about it....


Its still fraud



:mad: