ESAT BT Dossier - Documents, complaints, wanted

surveys

Myself and some others have agreed to send a 'dossier' to the Director of european operations in BT HQ in London. Anyone interested in joining please contact. Esat has caused so many nightmares, we have to do something about it. In addition they are undermining all the marvellous work IOFL have done this past few years because their actions are going to restrict broadband takeup, which is the very thing IOFL have been triving so hard to obtain. With so much success and credit under their belts, why should we allow it to be undermined by the incredible stupidy and bad management of ESAT ? If we take ESAT to task and get results surely all the other providers will sit up and get their act together as well ? The power really IS with the consumer, and the consumers of ESAT have put up with too much for too long. It appears that Irish BB is also going the way of ESAT, so hopefully severe action with ESAT will have an affect on IBB and maybe others as well ? At this stage I am not quite sure how to collect everything from interested members who want to join in. Maybe a private message where I will give each one my email address, and my postal address for those who have many documents. ? Perhaps the committee would like to take up this matter themselves, and handle it in their own way. ? Over to you Guys (and girls)

Sapele

1st addition to the file sent ......

philologos

I think BT Ireland provide a great service with very little downtime. If anything you should be asking Eircom to unbundle the exchanges. You should had listened to the discussion on Newstalk 106 this morning.

Sponge Bob

I think he means their Billing and Customer service. Their technology is fine.

surveys

Obviously somebody is lucky with ESAT. I am happy for anybody who is, but I fear the majority have had a horrible time with them. ! The technology, as Bob rightly said is great. I have no problems with that. In fact my connection has been so good, it is the ONLY reason I am still with ESAT !! If it were not for that I would have 'gone like the proverbial hare' Its the administration and the billing of that service which is so horrendous. ! Together with departments not knowing what other departments are doing. Bad (non existant) training. Broken promises time after time, and sometimes outright lies. !
A pitty I was not on 'Newstalk' I have never listened to it, but I can imagine just what I would have said, except they would have cut us off air. !!

federerfan

I know that BT muppets read this board.
Do you think they give a crap about us? I dont think so, there are way too many soft direct debits about to have them worry about a few tech heads that frequent here.

I gave up on my situation after I was told by BT that I was being rude to the complaints officer (after 15calls & 13 emails), and that "she was only doing her job"

But get this, all I wanted to know was how much I owed them...yep, thats it.

But I'll vote with my money and go elswhere...

Good luck with the campaign

fedfan

philologos

the issues involved with the broadband rollout lie with Eircom.. they should never have full ownership over the ADSL exchanges

dub45

Jakkass wrote:

the issues involved with the broadband rollout lie with Eircom.. they should never have full ownership over the ADSL exchanges

Can you not see that no one in this thread except your good self is talking about broadband rollout? what is at issue is Esat's lousy billing department.

surveys

But those are exactly the issues. Fedfan. (1)They don't give a crap. but they should. ! (2) You made legitimate complaints via 28 communications and got nowhere, and was told "she is only doing her job. ! They have to be made to be concerned about their horrendous image and the damage they are doing to the BB industry. They have to realise that 'only doing her job' and doing it terribly badly is just not good enough. ! I am not quite sure what you meant by "soft direct debits" ? That they can debit their customers via the DD system even if its wrong, or the customer does not owe money. ?? That's probably what you meant. ? If thats true then thats an even more powerful reason to stop them ?
Lastly, "voting with your money" ? Do you think ESAT give a crap about 'your' money going elsewhere. ?? That is precisely what is wrong with them. They don't give a crap about anything, and its about time they were made to care. ?
Question ? If Eircom were good do you think ESAT would have one solitary customer left on their books ? "Tech heads" ?? Please explain. !!

dahamsta

Here's my "file", help yourself.

http://www.btirelandsucks.com/

adam

anthonymcg

I've had my problems with BT but I won't be replying to this survey as anyone who has:

People Power -Lets Finish Esat for good

in their sig is either 15 or misguided. You want them to reform their customer service more than anything else.

dahamsta

Some might argue they're beyond reform. How many years have they had to fix their billing system?

surveys

Now I really do think thats a great signature. !!

"" Eddie Hobbs said my blog is "f*cking brilliant"

Enough said.

federerfan

Ken Shabby wrote:

Some might argue they're beyond reform. How many years have they had to fix their billing system?

Dam right...

Take O2 or Vodafone for example, cant they (BT) buy a billing system off some other crowd?

I mean, how hard is it?


Maybe the internal muppets are designing it..... :rolleyes:


Fedfan

Fighting Irish

Jakkass wrote:

I think BT Ireland provide a great service with very little downtime. If anything you should be asking Eircom to unbundle the exchanges. You should had listened to the discussion on Newstalk 106 this morning.

.

Ihave had Esat BT + for about 2 years and its never stopped working and i have never got **** speeds

dub45

Fighting Irish wrote:

.

Ihave had Esat BT + for about 2 years and its never stopped working and i have never got **** speeds

No one is disputing the quality of their actual service:rolleyes:

dahamsta

federerfan wrote:

Maybe the internal muppets are designing it.

Apparently it's a rather pricey system, developed by one of Siebel or Siemens (the former would seem the obvious choice, but you wouldn't know with this crowd). When I was dicussing my own issue with the "Head of Consumer Sales & Service" - this is a good while ago now - we had a long chat about BT Ireland's processes in general, and he told me that they were in the process of upgrading it at the time. Doesn't seem to have changed anything. I didn't think it would, the software is far from the only factor involved -- training is probably a bigger issue.

(Lest I get him in trouble, he didn't tell me who developed it or how much it cost, I got that from another source.)

And no, no-one is disputing the quality of their service. I still have it, because technically it's very reliable. However saying that BTI is a good company because of that is rather like saying that Saddam Hussein was the kiddy because his military ran a tight ship.

adam

dub45

Ken Shabby wrote:

Apparently it's a rather pricey system, developed by one of Siebel or Siemens (the former would seem the obvious choice, but you wouldn't know with this crowd). When I was dicussing my own issue with the "Head of Consumer Sales & Service" - this is a good while ago now - we had a long chat about BT Ireland's processes in general, and he told me that they were in the process of upgrading it at the time. Doesn't seem to have changed anything. I didn't think it would, the software is far from the only factor involved -- training is probably a bigger issue.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ussein was the kiddy because his military ran a tight ship.

adam

I dont want to hijack the thread in raising this point but what I cannot understand it how their own management can stand over a system that has been so bad for so long? Surely its inaccuracies should cause serious concern for their auditors even? And the amount of extra work that must be generated internally by wrong billing must be extremely costly? And surely a system that risks bringing not just Esat Ireland but the whole Company into serious disrepute must or should give whoever has to vouch for proper corporate controls and processes some concern? It hopefully must only be a matter of time until somebody like the Joe Duffy show gives them a good going over?

federerfan

dub45 wrote:

I dont want to hijack the thread in raising this point but what I cannot understand it how their own management can stand over a system that has been so bad for so long? Surely its inaccuracies should cause serious concern for their auditors even? And the amount of extra work that must be generated internally by wrong billing must be extremely costly? And surely a system that risks bringing not just Esat Ireland but the whole Company into serious disrepute must or should give whoever has to vouch for proper corporate controls and processes some concern? It hopefully must only be a matter of time until somebody like the Joe Duffy show gives them a good going over?

Good point, but heres the thing. Why is anything implemented in a company?

To have a positive effect on the bottom line, thats how business works.

The BT billing fiasco is very obviously not having an effect on their bottom line, otherwise it sure would be fixed long time ago.

The sheer numbers of new signups must outweigh any incurred costs generated by mistakes....

But heres an example of what I call soft Direct Debits:

My friend who owns a small business got DSL when it was first rolled out. He was paying 90 euro a month for 512k, yep 90 euro A MONTH FOR 512K.

That was 2 1/2 years ago. Guess what hes paying now? Yep you guessed it, 90 euro a month, for what speed? Yep you guessed it, 512k.

That was until he told me of course, lol, but now he is in the quagmire that is BT customer service...

I wonder how many of him are out there.....

Fedfan

Saruman

Fighting Irish wrote:

.

Ihave had Esat BT + for about 2 years and its never stopped working and i have never got **** speeds

Their BB is excellent.. no problems there.. The problem is their complete LACK of customer service... i have been TRYING to get their all in one phone,BB line rental package since the deal for €25 for 4 months then 40 after that.. i signed up for it but only got the BB, the telephony package dissapeared... I then ordered it yet again, was put through to a voice recording guy who recorded me accepting the terms.. its as legal as me signing a contract.. that was weeks ago and still nothing.. this all started in January!!
They never answer emails, hell it takes days to even get the automated response saying they even got my email in the first place!! And phoning them is no good.. all i get is Qbuster saying they will call me back and keep my place in Q.. in fairness THIS DOES WORK and i get a call BUT there is no help there.. always "oh our billing system is offline" or some crap so they cant check details or orders etc...

As for their broadband? Its fine.. never a problem.

Fighting Irish

dub45 wrote:

No one is disputing the quality of their actual service:rolleyes:

So whats this all about? The OP needs to paragraph his **** :mad:

dub45

Fighting Irish wrote:

So whats this all about? The OP needs to paragraph his **** :mad:

Funnily enough the rest of us managed to read it - try taking it one sentence at a time...........

Zynks

I've been on BT's BB for 1 1/2year, and as many other have said above, the quality is spot on. However, last October I went for their line rental + BB package and the billing issues started on the first bill. I basically have been overcharged, not much, just about €45, but every time I get a bill I have to call them and discuss it over and over again and I always assured it will be fixed on the next bill. I am still waiting...

In BT's defense, their customer service people have been very good and genuinely made a good effort. They always call back when I use the option, and in other occasions they have gone the extra mile on other issues.

Thus, my problem is ONLY with their billing, but what really concerns me is that there must be a LOT of people out there who are paying without checking their bills, and it could be amounting to millions of euro in overcharge.

If that is the case, writing to the head office is only part of what should be done. The regulator, the press and consumer affairs should be pulled into the discussion and maybe some sort of inspection of their books should be done because if they just fix their system they will get away with a lot of money that doesn't belong to them.

surveys

There are some good points being raised on the thread now. Zynks raised a good idea about copying everything to ComReg, the Press, Consumer Affairs, etc. Dub45 had already suggested Consumer Affairs as well.
I agree that there might well be loads of people being 'quietly' ripped off by Billing Dept. Many people (too many) are very lazy about checking things, so I think its a high probability. ? You only have to watch people at ATM's. ! Not bothering with a receipt, or throwing the receipt away !
Saruman seems to having lots of problems too !
Federerfan also raised a good point about 'internal auditors'. I will add this point to my letter to BTHQ. Incidently if I copy and paste a lot of these replies and include them as a digest in the letter to his 'nibs' does anybody object. ? It would be more 'authentic' if I included the 'nickname' of the person adding the comment, again if nobody objects. ?
Unfortunately nobody else except Sapele has submitted anything. Yet. !

dahamsta

There's no point in sending individual complaints, in any shape or form. BT have been receiving individual complaints for years and they've done nothing to act on them, they're not going to change all of a sudden now no matter what they say.

Build the "dossier" with as much information as possible, from as many users as possible; have it delivered, by courier, on a set date; copy it, by courier, to everyone that matters (including the media). If more people come along after the set date - they will if you get publicity, which should happen if you handle it right - set another date and start another dossier. I'd suggest a three-month collection period, with a "campaign" once a month on forums like these to bring it back into the public eye.

I'll put money towards the courier costs and any other expenses; if there are any other technical resources you need, don't be afraid to ask. I'm sure IrelandOffline would be happy to help too. At the very least, feel free to use TelcoWatch for organisational purposes; privately (i.e. private forums) if necessary.

adam

surveys

I did not mean 'seperate' or individual complaints. Cut & Paste was to paste the comments into my own letter. The request for documents from others who have had a bad time was for attaching to my 'own' letter. Not seperated in any way, but just adding weight to my own letter and pages of 'headaches'.
Incidently. WHY does this 'board' keep cutting me off and asking me to log back in. ? Its darned annoying. !!:mad:

dahamsta

Fair enough, just making sure.

If you're running an older browser, upgrade. If you're up to date, try clearing your cookies and your cache, and restarting your browser.

adam

philologos

dub45 wrote:

No one is disputing the quality of their actual service:rolleyes:

theres worse than BT...

Kazu

there a shower of ****ers i had anytime 150hr dialup for four months during the summer they took 350 euro out of my account which should only have been 120 euro i rang to complain and all iam getting is a 50 euro refund which i havnt seen yet will never deal with them again :mad: :mad:

dahamsta

No offense mate, but if you're down €180 and you just accept it, that's your lookout. Want to buy a bridge? I have this lovely one in London...

cynos

They havent billed me since feb 2005 and in december 2005 I asked for a copy of the bill and i'd pay what I owed
but they couldnt produce a bill
I get threatning letters once a week and when i ring they promise to send out the up2 date invoice, but insttead send out threats.
also all there letters use non existant names
Shower of C***s