abit of help with overclocking

awhir

I got a amd 3800+ x2 and i read a good few guides.but could anyone just give me a of advice what to look out for and anything special about my cpu.i have a good cooler and good enough ram.

conzy

Ok, basically the first steps to overclocking any platform is to find the max speed of individual components first.

So, First we will find the max speed of our ram.

Set your HTT multiplier from 5 down to 3 (this is to stop the HTT bus from going over 1000mhz)
Set your CPU multiplier from 11 down to 8 (this is is so that the CPU is not a limiting factor)
Loosen you're ram timings to 3-4-4-11(this is very loose but will let you get higher speed)

Now, raise the HTT (fsb) from 200mhz to 220mhz and run a few passes of Memtest or 32M super PI.

Keep doing this until you fail memtest, and lower the HTT (fsb) a small bit.

You have found the max speed of you're ram (at stock voltage)

Now write this number down, and do the following

Leave your HTT multiplier at 3
Set you're CPU multiplier to stock
Set a ram divider of 133mhz (so that you're ram is not a limiting factor)

Now begin to raise the HTT (fsb) from 200mhz to 210mhz, and check stability with 32M super PI, do this until you cannot Pass 32M super Pi.

You have now found the max speed of your CPU at stock voltage, Give it a little more juice, go from 1.4vcore to 1.45vcore, and repeat the above steps, when you get stuck again, thenvoltage raise from 1.45 to 1.5 and keep increasing HTT until you cant pass 32M Super PI.

Now you could set a higher voltage but personally I wouldnt until my rig is a few months older:o

You now need to find the best combination of both, to give you the best performance.

Lets say your Ram maxed out at 250mhz, and you're CPU maxed out at 2.5ghz

250mhz * 11 = 2.75ghz (that wont work)
250mhz * 10 = 2.5ghz (perfect)

You now need to tighten you're ram timings, search with google to find what values others are using with you're ram.

But you can use trial and error, first tighten (smaller number) the Tras (4th number) then the RAS Precahrge (3rd number), then the Ras to Cas Delay (2nd number) and finally the Cas latency (1st number)

For example after finding my max overclock i then tightened my ram timings from (3-4-4-8) down to (2.5-3-3-6)

The lower you get these the better.

You can also increase ram voltage but this depends on the make of ram and what chips it uses.

Also when testing stability of a Dual-core CPU you need to run an iretation os the stress test for each core,

I have a single core so im not sure exactly how you do this, ask Wizard or someone

Good luck and i hope this helped

L31mr0d

Just a question about memtest, the last time i ran it, it ran for 3 hours. Is there any way of overclocking and checking stability without having to wait so long for the memory to be tested. Is there a way to run memtest faster?

Also are you getting access to all these settings in your BIOS? I can access the RAM timings and the CPU multiplier, but I don't know where to find the HTT multiplier(FSB). I'm using the ASUS A8N-SLI?

Also is all your overclocking done in the BIOS or do you do any software OC'ing?

conzy

Im afraid you have to be patient to overclock, Alot of people buy a Lanparty board and an opteron and crank uo the FSB and say " what cant I get 3ghz?? its broken......."

You have to check stability after every increase in speed, use OCCT its a great stability test and only takes half an hour, Super Pi 32M test is also great, and they are both quick ways to find instability.

In your bios the HTT (fsb) adjustment is called CPU freqeuncy and can be found on this page of the bios:



All overclocking should be done in the Bios, there are programs available like Clockgen but I never use them, and they are really only temporary and for testing.

The only software OC'ing I do is the GFX card, when you get your 6800ultra, you can use the coolbits registery tweak to overclock it........

Also when you are happy with you overclock, you should then run a few hours of memtest and a few hours of Prime 95 to check stability

L31mr0d

Wait... ok the HTT(fsb) is the CPU frequency. Then where is the HTT Multiplier, is that the Hyper Transport Frequency? BTW, what happens if the HTT bus goes over 1Ghz?

Also, should I go near the PCI-Express clock frequency and where is the ram divider setting? I have a setting called "Memclock index value", is this the divider that needs to be dropped from 400Mhz to 133Mhz?

conzy

Ok, In the first pic i posted the 4th value down, is the HTT (fsb), but ASUS call i CPU freqeuncy.

The 7th value down is your CPU multiplier, so your CPU frequency X multiplier gives you your clock speed, so at stock 200mhz (cpu frequency) X 11(multiplier) is 2200mhz or 2.2ghz.

Now Athlon 64 CPUs have a Thing called Hypertransport, which is like fsb but runs alot faster, it runs at 1000mhz but its doubl pumped so its 2000mhz (just like DDR memoery......)

If the HTT bus goes over 2000mhz things get very unstable, and there is no advantage in overclocking it, For example, if their are 10 cars on a 20 lane motorway, and we add another 10 lanes will things get anyh faster? No.

So when you raise the HTT/FSB/Cpu frequency, (whatever you want to call it) from 200mhz up to 250mhz, your HTT bus multiplier is still at 5 and the HTT bus runs at 2500mhz instead of 2000mhz which is way to high, so you drop the HTT bus multiplier from 5 down to 4 which makes your HTT bus run at stock.

Also there is no problem running it below stock as The PC never needs all of the bandwith that is available.

I have a HTT/FSB of 265mhz X 11 multiplier = 2.9ghz, I have my HTT bus multiplier at 3, so 265*3 = 795mhz *2 (double pumped) = 1590mhz which is below stock and ok.

The Memclock index value is the RAM divider set it to 266mhz to give you loads of room to overclock the CPU.

I dont see the HTT bus multiplier in that pic I posted, have a look around that area of the bios for it..........

P.s what ram are you using?

L31mr0d

bah... live and learn, the RAM i have is TwinMOS (cheapo). I went for the cheapest option with the RAM as with the PSU, as i wanted to pump that money into the GPU and CPU, a mistake i'll learn from. I don't really want to overclock the RAM, as from reading around overclocking RAM shows little or no noticable increase in performance, my benchmarking score might go up, but all I want is to get the max performance out of my system without breaking it, for at least the next 2 years. Its good to know what setting changes affect the RAM though, I would of been increasing my CPU frequency, never knowing that it was overclocking my RAM aswell.

Also, about the PCI-E Clock (5th value down in the image you posted) what is the benefit of overclocking this value?

conzy

I don't really want to overclock the RAM, as from reading around overclocking RAM shows little or no noticable increase in performance

There are big benifits of overclocking ram, Memory bandwith goes through the roof, and makes everything nice and fast.

Anyway the most important thing is Raw Cpu clockspeed, so we can run your ram on a divider to keep it as close to stock as possible and try and get around 2.8ghz with your CPU, can you remember what stepping it is?

Don't overclock the PCI Express Bus, again its like the motorway example, it cause instablility and the extra speed is not needed.

Also do you see, PCI clock synchronization mode? Set that to 33mhz or else you PCI devices and HDDs will be unstable.

So, you wont be overclocking ram, so set the divider to 200mhz which will half the speed of the ram, and start cranking the FSB around 10mhz at a time and run OCCT or Super Pi 32M until you get errors, then increase voltage one small notch, and go around and around, until it wont go any higher;)

So to recap:

Timing mode: Auto
Memclock index value: 200mhz (or lowest possible)
Set command rate (memory timing in your bios) to 1T (if not set by SPD)
leave the PCI express Frequency at 100mhz
PCI clock synchronization mode: to 33mhz
DDR voltage: stock
CPU multiplier: 11
CPU coltage: try 1.45 and go up from there, but not past 1.55

Did you find the HTT bus multiplier??? set it to 4 and if you get a FSB above 250 set it to 3

awhir

hmm think there is something wrong with my core look its only x5 should it not be x10 and shuch low voltage.

here is the pichttp://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/awhir/Untitled.png"]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/awhir/Untitled.png"]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/awhir/Untitled.png

also here is info about my ram
http://rapidshare.de/files/15904526/cpuz.htm.html

L31mr0d

Yeah that doesn't seem right to be getting only 1GHz? Have you changed any settings in the BIOS? Just go in and see if you can increase the multiplier in your BIOS

conzy

Sorry guys I was sick:o

The reason the multiplier and voltage have dropped is "Cool and Quiet" Technology which throttles your CPU when its idle to save Energy, THis is really only needed for servers, and can seriously hamper you overclock.

Go to the Bios and set Cool and Quiet to OFF
Also set CPU thermal throttling to OFF

@ L31mr0d,

I don't really want to overclock the RAM, as from reading around overclocking RAM shows little or no noticable increase in performance

There are big benifits of overclocking ram, Memory bandwith goes through the roof, and makes everything nice and fast.

Anyway the most important thing is Raw Cpu clockspeed, so we can run your ram on a divider to keep it as close to stock as possible and try and get around 2.8ghz with your CPU, can you remember what stepping it is?

Don't overclock the PCI Express Bus, again its like the motorway example, it cause instablility and the extra speed is not needed.

Also do you see, PCI clock synchronization mode? Set that to 33mhz or else you PCI devices and HDDs will be unstable.

So, you wont be overclocking ram, so set the divider to 200mhz which will half the speed of the ram, and start cranking the FSB around 10mhz at a time and run OCCT or Super Pi 32M until you get errors, then increase voltage one small notch, and go around and around, until it wont go any higher;)

So to recap:

Timing mode: Auto
Memclock index value: 200mhz (or lowest possible)
Set command rate (memory timing in your bios) to 1T (if not set by SPD)
leave the PCI express Frequency at 100mhz
PCI clock synchronization mode: to 33mhz
DDR voltage: stock
CPU multiplier: 11
CPU coltage: try 1.45 and go up from there, but not past 1.55

Did you find the HTT bus multiplier??? set it to 4 and if you get a FSB above 250 set it to 3

Drapper

exlcellent thread lads "observing" ;-)

my multi is 12 :-)

awhir

hmm my bois does not seam to have all the stuf yours does ?

so i got some bad phone pics

awhir

some more

L31mr0d

I'm going to try to see what my system can handle as soon as the enermax psu arrives, should be mid next week, also expecting the 6800U next week as well. I don't want to touch any of the settings yet, in case the PSU can't handle it.

I agree with drapper as well, I knew very little about OC'ing before, just my GPU and turning up the frequency of the CPU, but I know a lot more now. I had heard a lot about the FSB, but i'd never seen it referenced to in the BIOS, its good to know what it actually is now. Although the prospects of running memtest over and over doesn't appeal to me, but i guess it will pay off in the long run.

I'll leave the PCI clock as it is. I think I will try to OC the RAM, just so i know its limits, and how far i can increase the CPU Multiplier for the CPU.

Drapper

claregalway Qs wrote:

some more

set you multiplier to the rec for a 3800
increase your volatage to 1.45
ram should be on Manual (change it to 1 T)
FSB 440 (if multi is *5) = 2200 (10% increase on your normal)

but I think your multi should be higher !! if multi is 10 then FSB to 220 or 230

WATCH YOUR TEMPS !!! dont go above 40 on load and 55 on load.

all done at your own risk !!

conzy

Clare galway, what ram are you using? Its not performance ram whatever it is......

Set the command rate to 1T, it is currently set to 2T which is a bad for A64 systems

I dont see any overclocking options in your bios, but I am not familiar with that Bios so......... you will have to dig deeper:o What motherboard is it?

@L31mrod, you cannot increase the multiplier on A64 cpus, only the FX series, The only way to overclock it is to increase the fsb, which overclocks everything which gives better performance.

And like i said, you DO NOT need to run memtest after every adjustment, just run OCCT or Super PI 32M, they only take 30 minutes.

When you reach your max overclock, run memtest all night, and thenm run Prime 95 all night, to be sure.

Good luck;)

Drapper

if you dont know your way around a bios OVerclocking is not advised !

awhir

hmm ok i think my ram is kingston ram.i use a asus kn8-sli.
but see i bought it all built so the bios is phoenix award bios.
is there any way i could flash it it the asus bios ?

Drapper

claregalway Qs wrote:

hmm ok i think my ram is kingston ram.i use a asus kn8-sli.
but see i bought it all built so the bios is phoenix award bios.
is there any way i could flash it it the asus bios ?

buddy there is no such thing as an asus bios! go into your advanced setting and look for jumper configuration , change it to manual and adjust the setting to suite ! thats where you change the settings to overclcok mainly, have you put your ram on MAnual? and !t timing?

conzy

That Kingston ram is, to be honest a bit crap:(

Its 3-3-3-8 and 2T by SPD which is like the worst latency your ram can have at DDR400

Its a big bottleneck in your system, and you could have got Ballistix or something for a few euros more.

Anyway like Drapper said, your Overclocking options are under Jumperless configuration.

Most motherboards use the Phoenix award bios......

awhir

ok i changed that but i still cant find a area were to do the rest of the stuf and i am pritty shure that it is not there (dam ****y phoinx bios).
so what can i do about it ?

well i got allout of spare cash around what would be a good 1g of ram i ould use but can it be compabile to the other 1g of ram.

well to be exact the bois is a
Manufacturer : Phoenix Technologies, LTD
Version : FUJITSU SIEMENS A8N-SLI BIOS 0302

see i bought my pc from germany so its a FUJITSU SIEMENS and i found this post translated from a german site and it seams like i can not overclock with my bois but this person changed it how ?

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.internetforen.de%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D7204&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

Drapper

claregalway Qs wrote:

ok i changed that but i still cant find a area were to do the rest of the stuf and i am pritty shure that it is not there (dam ****y phoinx bios).
so what can i do about it ?

well i got allout of spare cash around what would be a good 1g of ram i ould use but can it be compabile to the other 1g of ram.

well to be exact the bois is a
Manufacturer : Phoenix Technologies, LTD
Version : FUJITSU SIEMENS A8N-SLI BIOS 0302

see i bought my pc from germany so its a FUJITSU SIEMENS and i found this post translated from a german site and it seams like i can not overclock with my bois but this person changed it how ?

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.internetforen.de%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D7204&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

Ahh its locked !! like a dell pitty............. guess you wont be able to O'clock.

L31mr0d

OK last question thats been bugging me.

The FSB (for my BIOS = CPU Frequency) affects the CPU and RAM right, and that the "CPU multiplier" is used to multiply this clock up to the correct clock for the Processor, and that the actual FSB frequency (say, 220Mhz) is used to clock the RAM, and that the HTT Multiplier is really a multiple also of this FSB (i.e. 220Mhz) for a seperate bus used for the Hyper Transport of the 64bit processor. Then what is the "Memclock index value" for my board. Is not the RAM clocked from the FSB? Why is there a seperate clocking speed that you refer to as the "RAM Divider", what is this used for?

awhir

hmm yes but this person had the same problem as me if you read the link and you flashed the asus sli bios onto the board?

will i contact asus and ask then if i could buy a chip with there bios all ready on it and then remove my old 1 and insert the new 1.

is it dangrous.

Drapper

claregalway Qs wrote:

hmm yes but this person had the same problem as me if you read the link and you flashed the asus sli bios onto the board?

will i contact asus and ask then if i could buy a chip with there bios all ready on it and then remove my old 1 and insert the new 1.

is it dangrous.

Chip? don't get yah.....

B00MSTICK

You use a memory divider if your FSB is too high to for your memory i.e if you have value ram but your processor can do 3000mhz (300*10) but your RAM can only go at 250mhz (500 DDR) then you can run your FSB at 300 and have a 5/6 Divider which makes your RAM run at 250.

conzy

@ Claregalway, I am nearly 100% sure that you could flash it to the Latest official ASUS Bios for your board, unless Siemens physically removed stuff from the board which is highly unlikely:p

They might send you a CMOS chip flashed with the current bios, then all you would have to do is, swap your current chip for it.

You could also run your current ram on a divider, and overclock the CPU only, but the ram will still be a big bottleneck, (3-3-3-8) 2T:eek: Thats terrible.

Crucial Ballistix is great ram, it runs at (2-2-2-5) 1T at stock and mine is at DDR 520 @ (2.5-3-3-6) 1T and I have tested it at DDR 560 at (2.5-3-3-8) 1T

Its only €145 from komplett for a gig (2*512mb)

Also you DO NOT want to mix it with your current, because you cannot overclock certain slots, and you would be overclocking the kingston while overclocking the Ballistix.

Also when using 4 sticks of ram in your board ( and most 939 boards ) the command rate drops to 2T which is bad

awhir

ok i emailed asus about the the chip hope they reply with good news.i might aswell buy 2g of ram can you buy the Crucial Ballistix in a 2g pair single 1g.w


would it be hard to flash it to a completly new bios.

i got some ram for you to look at
http://komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=316234
http://komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=316235
http://komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=315981

conzy

Ok the OCZ gold, can maintain amazingly low latencies (2-2-2-5) at around 250mhz, and will not go higher than 250mhz no matter how much you loosen timings, It also requires amazing amounts of voltage to run like that, around 3.5volts:eek: which your board cannot supply.

Also you have a muyltiplier of 10 so the max 1:1 overclock you could get is 2.5ghz mkay...........

Now OCZ platinium is uses Samsung TCCD chips which are very fast, and acheives this at low voltage 2.6-2.7 volts

Most people acheive DDR600 or a 300mhz FSB with the 1gb kits, I am not sure if the 2gb kits overclock as well, so dig up some reviews.

The Platinium is ideal for you because you have a multiplier of 10 and 2.7ghz and 2.8ghz and beyond, is possible with your CPU so this ram will allow you to use a high fsb and keep a 1:1 divider also, with good fast ram Game loading times and general performance will improve greatly, Memory bandwith will also rise from, around 4000mb/s to 7000+mb/s but Athlon 64 Cpus have plenty of bandwith and this wont really improve performance.

But remember, the most important thing is raw CPU clock speed.......

awhir

he got 460 out of it i think
http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/memory/ocz/3200_platinum_2gb/index.htm

but if i was to buy a 1g stick could i just throw a matching stick in.in a few years.


To benchmark the memory, I'll be sticking to SiSoft Sandra. I'll start out at the memory's default rating and settings and work my up the overclocking ladder, if possible. Here is how it went down:
Memory Timings Voltage DDR Bus Speed Sandra Score
2.5-3-2-7 (default) 2.6v (default) 400MHz (default) 4140/4125
2.5-3-2-7 2.6v 420MHz 4424/4398
2.5-3-2-7 2.6v 440MHz 4592/4602
2.5-3-2-7 2.6v 460MHz 4774/4774
2.5-3-2-7 2.6 - 2.8v 480MHz FAIL
3-4-4-8 2.6 - 2.8v 480MHz FAIL
3-4-4-8 2.6 - 2.8v 500MHz FAIL
Front Side Bus Speed / DDR Ratio: 1.6 x FSB = DDR Bus Speed
2.5-3-2-7 2.6v 1.6 x 280 =
448MHz DDR 5458/5448
2.5-3-2-7 2.6v 1.6 x 285 =
456MHz DDR 5574/5578
2.5-3-2-7 2.6 - 2.8v 1.6 x 290 =
464MHz DDR FAIL
3-4-4-8 2.6 - 2.8v 1.6 x 290 =
464MHz DDR FAIL

The memory cranked right up to 400MHz at very low memory timings of 2.5-3-2-7. For 1gb modules, this is very impressive. At those timings, I didn't expect to gain one single MHz more, but I was easily able to go all the way up to 460MHz DDR! Once at 460MHz, the memory was simply topped out. Even with loose timings and higher voltage, the memory was stuck at 460MHz. Just for fun, I decided to take advantage of the 1.6 multiplier for the FSB / DDR Ratio on my motherboard. With the FSB at 285MHz and the DDR at 465MHz, I was able to max both the CPU and memory out at the same time. This generated a pretty impressive score for an i865 based motherboard.