The use of the term "Gay" and Others

Tar.Aldarion

damien.m wrote:

Holy christ, that's some fcked up logic. So it is better to live in an environment where homophobes aren't discouraged because you know who they are?

Ha, what the ****.
*point flys over head it seems*

angelofdeath

damien.m wrote:

What you and your ilk do by taking a word that describes peoples' sexuality to use it to belittle something is just being ignorant and offensive.

:rolleyes:well then im ignorant and offensive, care tbh, and lol at your last example, i find that amusing and non offensive, even if it were replaced with my name

Tar.Aldarion

damien.m wrote:

Ah I know. Lets use the word "AndrewAlexanderGildea" instead of "impotent". Viagra helps those that are ""AndrewAlexanderGildea". Erectile dysfuctions make many men "AndrewAlexanderGildea" and cause quite a lot of stress and anxiety. Many men get counselling because they are "AndrewAlexanderGildea".

Lol, I would find that hilarious. You see, it would be hypocritical for me to find that offensive. I don't find it offensive. After a while, that would not just be associated with me and then it is not a problem, even if it had been at the start and no, it wouldn't have been.. It would have a seconday meaning which would be iused by the next generation.
How do you remember my middle names?
You can call me Paul, btw, it's my first name.

Boston

angelofdeath wrote:

a verb? to gay..

if the person who gets upset because someone says "thats teh gay" can't tell that it's meant to be humourous and not offensive, then the problem is with them, and i dont feel the need to curtail my language and be all pc around people

why is that always the reponse. It's their fault for being offended. So if some rap music came on, and I turned to by boyfriend and said, turn off that ****** music, it would be ok, because I'd spend the last week watching The Shield? I obviously wasn't saying the Hi-fi is black, or that discrete analog signals have a race, now was I? Of course you're going to claim ****** is more emotive then Gay, but that's depends of you're perspective. Society tells us one word is wrong and another isn't.

I'm sure it happens a lot, remembering back to school. But, if somebody who is secretly gay and is nervous or whatever hears people using it in a derogatory way, at least they will know not to tell that person as they can't trust them.

So that person keeps it bottle up inside? Never telling anyone? You basically just said that people who use gay and similar terms in the fashion you describe shouldn't be trusted, aka are homophobic. You think it, so why couldn't a gay kid? It's the whole point I've been arguing, if you're confused and alone and afraid, it's easy to link derogatory use of gay/fag with homophobia. This results in feelings and abandonment and ostrasization. Why do you think suicide is so prevalent among young gay males? It's stuff like this. It makes you paranoid and mistrusting, how is that a good thing.

damien

Guess it boils down to one group saying: "Hey guys, look we find the way you use that word to be offensive, could you not use it in that context?" and the other group saying "no".

Watch the way some justify saying no though:
It's not rightfully your word.
Words change, get over it.
How dare you force me to be pc.
I have a right to use a different meaning.
Why don't you stop getting upset over a word.

How about just saying "Fair enough" and not using it. Or going "whatever, I think you're over-reacting but fine, keep the bloody word." That doesn't seem to come into play at all. One wonders why people get so vehement about NOT using a word.

Tar.Aldarion

LiouVille wrote:

So that person keeps it bottle up inside? Never telling anyone? You basically just said that people who use gay and similar terms in the fashion you describe shouldn't be trusted, aka are homophobic. You think it, so why couldn't a gay kid? It's the whole point I've been arguing, if you're confused and alone and afraid, it's easy to link derogatory use of gay/fag with homophobia. This results in feelings and abandonment and ostrasization. Why do you think suicide is so prevalent among young gay males? It's stuff like this. It makes you paranoid and mistrusting, how is that a good thing.

What I went on to say was, do not look at some word somebody says that very well could mean nothing. Look at their personality, who they are.
Bottling it up is not the way, they should be able to trust their friends, it was never a problem for us.
Remember the southpark with the flag episode?
It showed four white people hanging a black person and chef couldn't believe the children did not think it was wrong. He thought they were therefore offensive.
It was because rascism was such a ridiculous thing to them that they just saw five people.
I think homophobia is unfathomable llike that, it's why I use the word.
People who know me, know that.
It's not a problem to look at a persons personality and bypass some word they use like gay, which has many meanings.

damien

I like how this thread started with "Do gays find the way the word is used in a negative fashion to be offensive?" and the general reply is "how dare you get offended" or some rant about being forced to be PC.

Tar.Aldarion

damien.m wrote:

Guess it boils down to one group saying: "Hey guys, look we find the way you use that word to be offensive, could you not use it in that context?" and the other group saying "no".

Watch the way some justify saying no though:
It's not rightfully your word.
Words change, get over it.
How dare you force me to be pc.
I have a right to use a different meaning.
Why don't you stop getting upset over a word.

How about just saying "Fair enough" and not using it. Or going "whatever, I think you're over-reacting but fine, keep the bloody word." That doesn't seem to come into play at all. One wonders why people get so vehement about NOT using a word.

I actually do use the word as little as possible to meet people half way.
I do not consciously say it. It is just like 'oh my god' or 'jesus' I say these things out of childhood habit, I don't believe in god.
I have a lot of phrases and words I use like this. Gay is just a word that comes into a lot of peoples heads like 'bless you' when somebody sneezes.
Go and tell poeple from cork city not to say, 'like', it's not an easy thing for them to do. It's not like I would even say gay a lot, maybe once or twice a week or something. People don't consciously think of it as a word to use.
I have heard it nearly every day in my life, so it just becomes part of peoples vocabulary.

Boston

What it comes down to is respect damien. Everyone has the right to go about their daily life without being constantly offended. I don't spend my lunch break talking about Cock and Ass Or T & A, out of respect for those I eat with. I don't use the words **** and mother ****er every five minutes while working on a project out of respect for the people I work with. I don't find these terms offensive, but i still don't say it in the company of people who may find it offensive. Where's the mutual respect from you lads?

Ps, with the whole retard thing. I used to say it, then I met someone with a disabled family member, and I coped on to myself.

solice

damien.m wrote:

I like how this thread started with "Do gays find the way the word is used in a negative fashion to be offensive?" and the general reply is "how dare you get offended" or some rant about being forced to be PC.

Well to be fair, i gave my 3 and 4 pence worth to the question asked by the OP and the debate took an automatic swing off topic by the proceeding posts from you and louiville telling me how wrong i was.

So the thread started with one thing and went way off to something else cos you brought it there. I assume the "I like how this thread started....." comment was meant as a tap on the back for yourself

To the OP, clearly it is felt that the flippant use of the word gay is felt to be discrimiatory by some and no big deal by others in the "community". Its like all things in all walks of life, some people like them, some people dont. If you are concerned about how others feel then you choose what you say and dont say. But dont let the fact that some people are over sensitive, over protective and are a little bit light headed from looking down on the rest of us from the dizzying heights of moral ground sway your opinion.

Tar.Aldarion

LiouVille wrote:

What it comes down to is respect damien. Everyone has the right to go about their daily life without being constantly offended. I don't spend my lunch break talking about Cock and Ass Or T & A, out of respect for those I eat with. I don't use the words **** and mother ****er every five minutes while working on a project out of respect for the people I work with. I don't find these terms offensive, but i still don't say it in the company of people who may find it offensive. Where's the mutual respect from you lads?

A few weeks ago a priest was hugely ofended by the slayer tshirt I was wearing, sure it's evil, should I not wear it to appease him? How can one expect to abide by things that somebody 'may' find offensive?
You can find a person to be offended at most things. Should you not eat meat in front of me because I find it horribly offensive and/or disgusting?
No, I have no right to expect people to live life differently because of me. That is forcing my personal beliefs on them. Some gay people are offend by the term gay and some are not. Some vegetarians are offended when people eat meat, some are not.
Just two examples, how can people be expected to live up to them all?
or to choose which ones to uphold?

Ps, with the whole retard thing. I used to say it, then I met someone with a disabled family member, and I coped on to myself.

Just an example, everybody is un pc. Some are just more touchy when it involves them.
Like isaac hayes quitting southpark there because they took a shot at scientology. Bit hypocrital after all that he has done on the show?
It's fine when it is somebody elses religion?
A lot of poeple are like that.

Boston

solice wrote:

Well to be fair, i gave my 3 and 4 pence worth to the question asked by the OP and the debate took an automatic swing off topic by the proceeding posts from you and louiville telling me how wrong i was.

I never said you where wrong. In fact I was very careful not to criticise you. I still think your class mates behavour is pretty poor.

Boston

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

A few weeks ago a priest was hugely ofended by the slayer tshirt I was wearing, sure it's evil, should I not wear it to appease him? How can one expect to abide by things that somebody 'may' find offensive?

Does that priest have to interact with you, would be the first question I'd ask.

You can find a person to be offended at most things. Should you not eat meat in front of me because I find it horribly offensive and/or disgusting?

Again, is it a thing where you have to eat with me.

No, I have no right to expect people to life differently because of me.

You've a right to some repect, you've a right to an alternative meal if meal is offensive.

Some vegetarians are offended when people eat meat, some are not.

And the ones that are offended don't eat with meat eaters. people can't jsut get up and leave their job/school, in the same fashion.

Just an example, everybody is un pc. Most are just more touchy when it involves them.

This is not being PC.

damien

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

A few weeks ago a priest was hugely ofended by the slayer tshirt I was wearing, sure it's evil, should I not wear it to appease him?

If you know he was genuinely offended, would you wear it again if you knew you were going to meet him?

I find the church offensive because of the number of children they murdered and molested, even in the Cork region alone but I am still respectful to priests who call to the house now and then and even say mass.

Tar.Aldarion

LiouVille wrote:

Does that priest have to interact with you, would be the first question I'd ask.

He saw me in the bus station, he had to go on the same bus as me.

Again, is it a thing where you have to eat with me.

There are plenty of times when people have to eat together, school, work, family occasions and so on.It's not just that they have to see you eat it, they have to see you wear animal products and whatever else offends people.
You shouldn't have to change your shoes because somebody else thinks you are a murderer, if it is not your moral code.

You've a right to some repect, you've a right to an alternative meal if meal is offensive.

I wouldn't call most of the vegetarian options in Ireland, respectful.

It's the same as people calling things gay in your presense, you eating meat or wearing fur.
Yet, I would not expect people to live so as not to offend me and I don't think anybody should.
It's just my opinion.

And the ones that are offended don't eat with meat eaters. people can't jsut get up and leave their job/school, in the same fashion.

Huh, yes we would eat with them, well nearly all do. Somebody may offend me but they don't think what they are doing is wrong so I don't have a problem. Nobody should have to abide by my personal beliefs but me.

Tar.Aldarion

damien.m wrote:

If you know he was genuinely offended, would you wear it again if you knew you were going to meet him?

It's not like I would go out of my way to wear it so as to offend him. I would probably be wearing similar clothes without a second thought though.
Some christian beliefs offend me, some of my clothes offend him. Why can't people just live their life without worring what other people are doing?
I say, let him offend my personal beliefs away, what does it matter to me?
And if he has some belief about a symbol on my clothes he should understand that it is just his belief and that, I shouldn't have to live by it.

I find the church offensive because of the number of children they murdered and molested, even in the Cork region alone but I am still respectful to priests who call to the house now and then and even say mass.

I am respectful to them but I will not change for them.
I wear respectful clothes that abide by their religion to funerals etc. I would do their traditions but I will not change things on my own turf for them
I don't think people should have to.

Nevyn

It is called consideration.
It is good manners not to make other people uncomfortible when they are arround you by how you behave and what you say.
You can't know how everyperson you meet will react and if they will be offended so unless you are with people you know well in a place where there aren't people you don't know show some consideration.
It is that simple.

BuffyBot

Watch the way some justify saying no though:
It's not rightfully your word.
Words change, get over it.
How dare you force me to be pc.
I have a right to use a different meaning.
Why don't you stop getting upset over a word.

How about just saying "Fair enough" and not using it. Or going "whatever, I think you're over-reacting but fine, keep the bloody word."

Am I the only one who thinks that this reasoning is a tad flawed?

Actually a few years ago something happened that I havent forgotten-just because well I felt bad about it-even though it was at the time a "normal" and in no way callous outburst.It was a bantourous slagging shout I made accross a corridoor in UCD at lunchtime with loads of people around.

I shouted to a mate of mine hey you must be blind,you're blind! because he had walked straight by me.
I must have said it 3 or 4 times , with the 4th time being just when I had caught up with him.
Just at that moment it dawned on me what I was saying and who I was saying it to.
It's a common thing to say to someone.
But my friend is legally blind.He has a very small amount of sight.

He said to me real stern at first, (mainly because I had said it a few times)-You say that one more time and I'll hit you!!

I was stumped for a second and then I went red and all apologetic-the apology was accepted.
I suppose the point I'm making is sometimes we are conditioned almost subliminably at times into using turns of phrases that will offend some people.
If I didnt know a blind person,I might have continued to use that phrase and think nothing of using it.
I wouldnt now.

metrovelvet

People are getting out of control with the hypersensitivity. Some people get offended by happy christmas or bless you. Its gotten ridiculous. Look what trouble the reaction to a ****ing cartoon caused.

Sticks and stones .... sticks and stones....

Rev Hellfire

damien.m wrote:

I find the church offensive because of the number of children they murdered and molested, even in the Cork region alone

Now I'm not going to call u on the molestation, but murdered? Maybe you'll provide some support to the idea that priests have been murdering children.

damien

Who said I said Priests? Oh and maybe murdered is the new word for shouting at, who knows these days with the kids and their harmless evolving of words.

Rev Hellfire

Ahh now I get you, you where been clever. Us old timers, we like to stick with definitions we find our dictionaries, its all so confusing.

Hmm_Messiah

Gawd but this thread has got very gay


The oddest thing I found in this thread is some one apparently claiming the word for all homosexuals worldwide and suggesting maybe every one would go "ok I see ur offended and won't use it"

Presuming I've not been absorbed into that Borglike queer entity can I just say, well I'm gay (moreorless) and personally I'm not too pushed if u use the gay word to slag people off.

It would be nice if people didnt feel a need to insult others, or belittle them. Thats the problem, not specifically what words they use.

damien

Man you're like a bad pencil sharpener, you never get to the point do you?

Stark

I wonder if using the words "polio" and "spasticated" is still acceptable. Kids used to use them all the time to describe things and people they didn't like when I was young. Of course none of us knew what they really meant. I guess they must have been okay in that case.

damien

Stark wrote:

I wonder if using the words "polio" and "spasticated" is still acceptable. Kids used to use them all the time to describe things and people they didn't like when I was young. Of course none of us knew what they really meant. I guess they must have been okay in that case.

*looks at his League of Gentlemen DVDs*

BuffyBot

hypersensitivity

It would appear to be the crux of the issue, in a nutshell.

Boston

metrovelvet wrote:

People are getting out of control with the hypersensitivity. Some people get offended by happy christmas or bless you. Its gotten ridiculous. Look what trouble the reaction to a ****ing cartoon caused.

Sticks and stones .... sticks and stones....

Meh, I wouldn't call it hyper sensitivity. But we are talking about people going through a very sensitive time in their life. We all say things without thinking and end up hurting someone, the point is how do we react once me realize we've hurt them. Do we say "Cop the **** on, I've no idea what it's like for you, but I know you're being over sensitive"? When someone comes out with queer, homo, or gay, it tends not to daze me at all, but **** gets to me, I've no idea why, and can't quantify it. There are lots of things that wouldn't daze me, such as seeing a dead body, which would positively send others into hysterics, am I being sub sensitive, or are they being hypersensitive.

Most of us hear gay so often we've become de-sensitised to it. For someone whose just taken on the word with a new meaning for themselves, it's abite illogical to presume they should be Grand with it's use right away.

To use yer mans priest example, the argument basically is, that the priest shouldn't be offended since he didn't put on his slayer T-Shirt that morning in the hope of running into a priest. In an ideal world people are that rational, and are only hurt when it's intended, but we don't live in that world.

Rev Hellfire: I've looked up a couple of definitions for the word gay, I've not found crap/bad in any of them.

Rev Hellfire

Indeed you are correct the Gay is not as per the dictionary associated with the context of lame/cráp. It still doesn't take from the fact that this is what is meant normally when people use it in the context of an action (nonsexual) taken.

But what I must say of far more interest is if you look up the actual word gay.
I wonder if there is a link between its meaning of licentious/immoral and its subsequent association with homosexuality. Are the two connected in that the homosexual community was seen as lacking in moral and sexual restraint? Which implies that it was always an insult ?

(Note I’m not saying they are I’m just wondering if this is how the word got associated with them).