The use of the term "Gay" and Others

moridin

damien.m wrote:

Holy christ, that's some fcked up logic. So it is better to live in an environment where homophobes aren't discouraged because you know who they are?

I came out to people who used it all the time. They were my best friends then, and still are now.

I really couldn't be arsed about people using it in the sense that's caused this discussion. For the majority of people I don't think that they mean it to be derogatory, and I don't see it as such. If someone manages to offend me by using it then I tell them to stop, but that's incredibly rare.

Why do some gay people refer to themselves as faggots? For years this was a pretty nasty slur (I still detest it), but by taking an insult and reversing it it loses some of it's power to wound. I think the people who go nuts over the adaption of societies day-to-day usage of certain words to have more than one meaning need to lighten up a bit more.

Perhaps slightly ironic considering that I hate txt speak online or in text messages unless truly needed. Language adapts, meanings change with time. Get over it.

The_Minister

Thaedydal wrote:

The same is done with the word rape by the same people.
.

What? How is rape a bad word?

DISCLAIMER: straight as the spire

Boston

Firespinner wrote:

What? How is rape a bad word?

DISCLAIMER: straight as the spire

I think it's more not taking the crime seriously. The shear number of people I know that have been sexually assulted is astounding. You're probably far more like likely to offend someone by making light of rape, then using the word gay, due to the nature of the crime, and how it effects people.

Ps, You know the isn't all that straight. It has a dynamic stabilisation system, which allows it to flex in the wind, and response to impulse forces.

The_Minister

Thats a pretty crap reason to get upset


Maybe instead of just complaining why don't you invent replacements?

Boston

Firespinner wrote:

Thats a pretty crap reason to get upset

How so? and invent a replacement for rape? What exactly are you saying?

The_Minister

LiouVille wrote:

How so? and invent a replacement for rape? What exactly are you saying?

lol
I was talking about using the word gay. I sometimes say faggoty, not because i dislike gays but because it was used all the time in secondary school and i have yet to find a replacement word.

Crucifix

Rev Hellfire wrote:

But what I must say of far more interest is if you look up the actual word gay.
I wonder if there is a link between its meaning of licentious/immoral and its subsequent association with homosexuality. Are the two connected in that the homosexual community was seen as lacking in moral and sexual restraint? Which implies that it was always an insult ?

That is quite interesting. I had a gander on etymonline, but it didn't really given any clear cut answers.

Boston

Firespinner wrote:

lol
I was talking about using the word gay. I sometimes say faggoty, not because i dislike gays but because it was used all the time in secondary school and i have yet to find a replacement word.

I say dumb irish ****, not because I dislike dumb irish ****s, it's because I spent all my time around dumb irish ****s in secondary school, and i've as yet not learned how to interact with people without being insulting. You understand right?

I'm sorry but I've put allot of effort into previous posts, and I find myself in this circular arguement I've had enough of.

The_Minister

LiouVille wrote:

I say dumb irish ****, not because I dislike dumb irish ****s, it's because I spent all my time around dumb irish ****s in secondary school, and i've as yet not learned how to interact with people without being insulting. You understand right?

I'm sorry but I've put allot of effort into previous posts, and I find myself in this circular arguement I've had enough of.

my point was that if you provide replacements it is easier for people to change

Boston

So you would like me to provide you with an alternative word to faggoty, which isn't even a word. How about bad/lame/crap/useless/stupid/stick-like...

rsynnott

It irritates me, though I think it is dying out to an extent. What REALLY irritates me, though, is the use of the word 'gay' as a noun. Besides being grammatically dubious, you wouldn't talk about a "group of blacks", would you? So why a "group of gays"?

But really, on the use of the word 'gay' as a pejorative, why? Can't people just use some word which doesn't denigrate a group of people? 'retarded' is rarely used now except by children, AFAIK.

Rev Hellfire wrote:

But what I must say of far more interest is if you look up the actual word gay.
I wonder if there is a link between its meaning of licentious/immoral and its subsequent association with homosexuality. Are the two connected in that the homosexual community was seen as lacking in moral and sexual restraint? Which implies that it was always an insult ?

IIRC it was originated in the UK by civil rights groups in the 30s or 40s, based on the 'happy' meaning, and got taken up by US civil rights groups later on as standing for Good As You. It's not a particularly old term (for homosexuals; obviously as a word it is quite old).

Stark

rsynnott wrote:

What REALLY irritates me, though, is the use of the word 'gay' as a noun. Besides being grammatically dubious, you wouldn't talk about a "group of blacks", would you? So why a "group of gays"?

Wow, just as this thread was spinning round in circles, the shít sprays off on a tangent.

Hmm_Messiah

people wonder how it must be scary for a teen to deal with his sexuality when people use gay as slang? God what the same teen might worry about if he read the average LGB thread here ? THe things people take personally , and get offended by.

How is it not possible , ever ever (apparently), for posters here to acknowledge people have differing opinions, and that that's ok?

and as for never getting the point, and that clever sharpener analogy; if addressed to me I acknowledged your point much earlier, and other people's. oh the problem is maybe that I didn't agree with it . aaaw

There's no need to be worried about feeling threatened and offended by slang words when you can come here and be criticised for not conforming with those who purport to know best.


didn't the last thread on the use of "gay" end up equally circular and purposeless too ?

The_Minister

LiouVille wrote:

So you would like me to provide you with an alternative word to faggoty, which isn't even a word. How about bad/lame/crap/useless/stupid/stick-like...

Those are crap substitutes.

Boston

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

didn't the last thread on the use of "gay" end up equally circular and purposeless too ?

I think the general consensuses on that thread was that in order to be a bigot intent was required. Though I maybe wrong.

I accept your points and BuffyBots. You're desensitized to the word,so am I, some people aren't. And believe it or not, there was probably a time when you weren't either.

I don't accept Firespinner "I'm to stupid to think for myself",
nor Tar.Aldarion's "people are rational, and shouldn't take offense if it's not meant", nor Solice's "Everybody does it, so I do to", nor angelofdeath's "It's PC not to offend people".

Hmm_Messiah

"people are rational, and shouldn't take offense if it's not meant",

personally I think this is quite sensible, not only in this context. I can remember any number of rows/upset where the hurt was never intended and I guess there would of been so much less conflict if I or others were less sensitive, or better communicated the concern before presuming an offence.

But then maybe that is to some extent yours, and others, point. If a balance was stuck of those being acutely sensitive to hearing words used that way and those not fully sensitive to how their words can affect people then maybe concerned expressed in this thread would be met.

You're desensitized to the word..........And believe it or not, there was probably a time when you weren't either.

I find it strange you say that in a thread that seems to be about being careful what you say. It bugs me the number of posters on this forum who presume to know what others, experienced, or how they behave, or how they feel/think, or should feel/think. There wasn't such a time.

BuffyBot

Those are crap substitutes.

Indeed, one might almost say that they are pretty gay..

Boston

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

personally I think this is quite sensible, not only in this context. I can remember any number of rows/upset where the hurt was never intended and I guess there would of been so much less conflict if I or others were less sensitive, or better communicated the concern before presuming an offence.

True, but as you pointed out the world doesn't work that way.

I find it strange you say that in a thread that seems to be about being careful what you say. It bugs me the number of posters on this forum who presume to know what others, experienced, or how they behave, or how they feel/think, or should feel/think. There wasn't such a time.

I did say probably.

The_Minister

BuffyBot wrote:

Indeed, one might almost say that they are pretty gay..

Indeed.

louville wrote:

So you would like me to provide you with an alternative word to faggoty, which isn't even a word. How about bad/lame/crap/useless/stupid/stick-like...

The most common usage is "that was such a faggoty thing to do"

Lets apply that to your substitutes.
1)"that was such a bad thing to do" - too weak
2)"that was such a lame thing to do" - too retro and weak
3)"that was such a crap thing to do" - good but wrong meaning
4)"that was such a useless thing to do" - completely wrong meaning
5)"that was such a stupid thing to do" - again wrong
6)"that was such a stick-like thing to do" - what?

See, not so easy is it?


DISCLAIMER *straight as a match-stick*

Boston

"Thats such a firespinner thing to do" Yea that sound right.

damien

Firespinner wrote:

DISCLAIMER *straight as a match-stick*

and just as wooden?
and lasts just 3 seconds?
and goes well with fags?

The_Minister

damien.m wrote:

and just as wooden?
and lasts just 3 seconds?
and goes well with fags?

Matches burn fags:eek:

There another one is the use of the word fag for cigarettes offensive?

damien

Firespinner wrote:

Matches burn fags:eek:

Fags last 300-1000 times longer than matches and are not quite as addictive.

There another one is the use of the word fag for cigarettes offensive?

Faggots were bundles of kindling. Get the connection with cigarettes now?

Stark

Firespinner wrote:

Matches burn fags:eek:

And dicks **** pussies but they also **** assholes. I'm sure there's a life lesson in there somewhere

Firespinner wrote:

There another one is the use of the word fag for cigarettes offensive?

Are you implying that sucking a gay is refreshingly addictive?

carbonkid

Firespinner wrote:

There another one is the use of the word fag for cigarettes offensive?

If you tell an an american your going out to smoke a fag they might look at you shocked thinking your going out to kill a gay person - i guess thats important to remember if you smoke and plan on moving to america

The_Minister

damien.m wrote:

Fags last 300-1000 times longer than matches and are not quite as addictive.

Matvhes are more addictive than cigarrettes:rolleyes:

damien.m wrote:

Faggots were bundles of kindling. Get the connection with cigarettes now?

I know that but gays are also often called fags.

energy69

Interesting conversation.

Maybe Fact: During the witch trials, gay people were thrown on the wood pile "like a bundle of sticks" just below the burning witch. They were not considered as bad as the witch, just a little bit less worse. Hence the term Faggots.

Language is our main form of communication. Words make up only around 7% of the meaning, tonality accounts for 38% and body language the rest. When in written form this obviously changes

Remember the auld idiom

"sticks and stones (and burning fires) will break my bones though words will never hurt me"

We are thought this as kids to make us realise that people tend to use language loosely so therefore take it loosely unless it is of benefit to you.

We all know that a lot of the time we say words in heated debates that we don't mean. Find the best in people and ignore the rest.