NWO - New World Order

Kernel

shroomfox wrote:

Yes. You don't seem to understand that this doesn't seem to form any kind of evidence.

Of course it does, it proves the existence and political reality of the new world order agenda. Which is something you earlier didn't believe.

shroomfox wrote:

The phrase NWO is ALSO a method of talking about creating world peace after WWII, and is sometimes used by historians to describe any period after a time of cultural or social change e.g. end of WWII, fall of the Berlin Wall, 9/11.

Yes, congratulations, you've done some research. So you're saying the New World Order does exist now then? :rolleyes:

shroomfox wrote:

Well, yes. That's what I'm asking you!

It doesn't matter which individual, be it Mary Robinson (who works with the UN now btw), John Bruton, John Major etc.. are members of these organisations, but simply that the organisations exist and that many high powered and politically and economically diverse people are members.

shroomfox wrote:

Ha. You've got to love it. Conspiracy theorists have managed to combine all their crazy theories (with some real events) into one. The NWO theory manages to encompass:

• Mind Control
• Extraterrestrials
• Illuminati
• Other Secret Societies
• Mass Governmental Conspiracy
• 9/11
• Watergate
• Contra
• JFK

And still, all you do is shout assertions. Where the hell is your evidence? If it's as incontrivertible as you claim, you should at least be able to give some proper evidence, other than pointing at different events and tenuously linking them - and you give out to others for using bad logic!

The reality of the NWO as a political agenda is what I am trying to prove here, the other conspiracies you have taken out of context. I do not say whether these conspiracies are related to the NWO or not, I merely used them as examples of how governments have told massive lies. Haven't mentioned JFK or Extraterrestrials though.

Your logic is flawed because you have tried to deny the existance of the NWO. The NWO is a political reality, which you later referenced as referring to globalisation with the goal of world peace - therefore you have contradicted yourself.

tba

So put simply what is the NWO, are they bad?

shroomfox

Look, Kernel - I've asked you for evidence several times now. All you've done is taken what I've said and engaged in rhetoric.

Yes, congratulations, you've done some research. So you're saying the New World Order does exist now then?

NWO means two things. One is the phrase that historians use to describe a new period in our world's history.

The one which this thread is about talks about a shadowy conspiracy that is trying to take over the world using mind control, backed terrorism and other dodgy means.

When I point out the difference between the two (which hasn't been mentioned in this thread before, and that you've failed to mention, or even appeared to realise), you become patronising. Hmm. Usually it's the other way around.

Your logic is flawed because you have tried to deny the existance of the NWO.

So what - by denying the NWO exists I'm illogical? You've provided no evidence! Seems pretty logical to me.

Look man: I'm not going to ask again. Evidence! What is it - like, six times I've asked now? It's especially galling when you don't provide it but get self-righteous and smug and dismiss anything anybody else says by saying "You don't know anything!". Go read a book on logic and debate and come back to me, okay?

shroomfox

Tba: Wikipedia as always.


The phrase as used by historians.

New world order.

The conspiracy that this thread is about.

New World Order

tba

tbh I really wanted Kernel to tell me...;)

Kernel

shroomfox wrote:

Tba: Wikipedia as always.


The phrase as used by historians.

New world order.

The conspiracy that this thread is about.

New World Order

Thank you. All I've said from the start was that the new world order was a reality, which is why I provided you with the link to the historical quotes in reference to it. You're backtracking now into trying to say I was talking about illuminati, which is a possibility, but I haven't mentioned illuminati until my last post. You said there was no evidence for a new world order, now you say there is a new world order but it refers to a political situation. That's what I've been saying.

So, there is a new world order. I can rest easy now that I've gotten my point across.

Kernel

tba wrote:

tbh I really wanted Kernel to tell me...;)

Nobody can say for sure the intentions of a new world order, but if you look at the direction the corporate controlled world has gone, and things like the Iraq war, then I'd say it's a bad thing for the masses. A new world order of greed.

shroomfox

Thank you. All I've said from the start was that the new world order was a reality, which is why I provided you with the link to the historical quotes in reference to it. You're backtracking now into trying to say I was talking about illuminati, which is a possibility, but I haven't mentioned illuminati until my last post. You said there was no evidence for a new world order, now you say there is a new world order but it refers to a political situation. That's what I've been saying.

OK, now you're just trolling.

You're backtracking. I stepped into this thread saying that I thought that the NWO conspiracy theory was a load of rubbish. It was obvious that I wasn't talking about "New world order" as a historical phrase. When I do mention it to clarify a point, you say that "I agree with you all along?" Pathetic. Later, tinfoil-hat boy!

Kernel

To quote you from your original post:

Shroomfox wrote:

Why is Ireland overrun with tinfoil hat lefties who babble constantly about the New World Order and blah blah blah. I've yet to see any reliable evidence about the New World Order, and I've yet to see any credible thinkers give it any serious thought. Any evidence I have seen is typical conspiracy theorist baloney, with sensationalist ideas drawn from dubious sources.

You now believe in the new world order, and accept it's reality. My work here is done backtracker.

shroomfox

New world order - as a phrase used to describe a global political situation: Yes.

New World Order - a fruitbat conspiracy theory with mind control and illuminati and blah blah blah: No.

There it is, in simple English. Get it?

Kernel

shroomfox wrote:

New world order - as a phrase used to describe a global political situation: Yes.

New World Order - a fruitbat conspiracy theory with mind control and illuminati and blah blah blah: No.

There it is, in simple English. Get it?

Good, you've made progress... although the teaching was difficult.

Your next phase is to wonder who is driving the new global political situation of the new world order.

tba

I cant wait TELL ME!

shroomfox

Your next phase is to wonder who is driving the new global political situation of the new world order.

It's the Royal Family, isn't it? But they're actually Lizards from space who colonised the world 50,000 years ago? And they turned the moon into cheese so the giant Galactic Mice (in league with the Nazis and the Jews) would attack the Earth in 40 BC? But L Ron Hubbard fought them off with the spear that pierced Jesus' side?

You know, you remind me very much of someone. All hail Kernel!

Kernel

shroomfox wrote:

It's the Royal Family, isn't it? But they're actually Lizards from space who colonised the world 50,000 years ago? And they turned the moon into cheese so the giant Galactic Mice (in league with the Nazis and the Jews) would attack the Earth in 40 BC? But L Ron Hubbard fought them off with the spear that pierced Jesus' side?

You know, you remind me very much of someone. All hail Kernel!

Ah now you're just being facetious.

They're lizard people from another dimension, not from space.

shroomfox

Naturally, apologies.

red dave

shroomfox wrote:

It's the Royal Family, isn't it?

I'd say close, but the British Govt for sure. How has nobody pointed out the big story accross the water how big business leaders giving the Government (loans) and then been put forward for nomination for entry into the house of lords.

Quote from their own site

"THE WORK OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS - ITS ROLE,
FUNCTIONS AND POWERS
Role
The House of Lords is the second Chamber of the United Kingdom Parliament. It
plays an important part in revising legislation and keeping a check on
Government by scrutinising its activities. It complements the work of the
Commons, whose members are elected to represent their constituents. Members of
the Lords are not elected and are unpaid. They have a wide range of experience
and provide a source of independent expertise. The House also has a judicial
role as the final Court of Appeal."

I find that people are getting too distracted with what went on in 9/11 that they are missing what is going on in the present.

There's a lot more going on closer to home than just in the States you know... :eek:

shroomfox

OHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGOD.

Everybody...PANIC!

Yeah, it's called corruption. It happens a lot. Always has.

red dave

shroomfox wrote:

Yeah, it's called corruption. It happens a lot. Always has.

Very true and 100% agree with you....up until the point of where computers and the technology that is around now have not.

What I mean by this is an example of going to the states and getting fingerprinted and photo taken when entering the country.

Pighead

Pighead as Chairman of the Debate is here to get this argument back on track.

shroomfox:
1/ States he is aware of the NWO in context of global political situations
2/ Refuses to believe the NWO exists as a conspiracy theory with mind control and illuminati involved.

Kernel
1/ States he is aware of the NWO in context of global political situations.
2/ Hasn't stated whether he believes the NWO exists as a conspiracy theory with mind control and illuminati involved.

So come on Kernel answer the question do you believe in NWO as defined in part 2 above?

Kernel

Pighead wrote:

2/ Hasn't stated whether he believes the NWO exists as a conspiracy theory with mind control and illuminati involved.

So come on Kernel answer the question do you believe in NWO as defined in part 2 above?

The main thing I wanted to get across was the geopolitical reality of the NWO. Personally, I do believe in an illuminati type cartel who are pulling the strings of the globalist organisations, but the evidence is circumstantial, and will not be sufficient to convince many people who have been conditioned by the media and the governments to follow a certain mindset.

With regard to mind control, what do you define as mind control? Political spin, media propoganda and disinformation are all elements of mind control, as is advertising, so mind control happens to all of us everyday. Then there's the MKULTRA project run by the CIA, which shows they experimented with psychotropic drugs and possibly electronic methods of mind control or mood altering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKULTRA

It's something most people never concern themselves with, but if you think about it and dig under the surface, you may come to different conclusions. Rejecting things based on media or government conditioning is playing into the hands of those who seek to manipulate the tractable masses.

shroomfox

Personally, I do believe in an illuminati type cartel who are pulling the strings of the globalist organisations, but the evidence is circumstantial, and will not be sufficient to convince many people who have been conditioned by the media and the governments to follow a certain mindset.

Good, you've made progress... although the teaching was difficult.

You're next phase is to try and discover evidence to support your claims before attacking others for refuting them!

SpAcEd OuT

Freelancer wrote:

your other video is a six minute long pastiche of other documentaries and news footage. It mixes fact and speculation

It's pure speculation and propaganda.

I never said the video was 100% correct I just said it was intresting,

FACT : U.S POLITICIANS WERE ORDERED NOT TO FLY ON COMMERCIAL AIR LINERS DURING THE MONTH OF SEPTEMBER

FACT : THE WORLD TRADE CENTRE WAS DESIGNED TO WITHSTAND THE IMPACT OF A JUMBO JET

FACT : STEEL DOES NOT MELT AT THE HEAT OF THE FIRE THE PLANE CRASH CAUSED

FACT : THE OWNER OF BUILDING 7 ADMITTED TO IT BEING PULLED DESPITE THE US GOVERNMENT SAYING IT COLLAPSED DUE TO FIRE

FACT : 2 MONTHS BEFORE SEPTEMBER 11 PILOTS WERE ORDERED TO STOP CARRYING GUNS ALSO GEORGE BUSH TOOK OUT A HUGE INSURANCE POLICY ON THE WTC AGAINST TERRORIST ATTACKS

FACT : ON VIDEO AN EXPLOSION CAN BE SEEN BEFORE THE PLANE HITS THE WORLD TRADE CENTRE

FACT : IN THE RELEASED PENTAGON VIDEO THEY ARE MISSING A VITAL FRAME THAT WOULD SHOW THE PLANE HITTING THE PENTAGON

I could go on, i'm not saying the american government planned this but I do think that MOST of the points raised in that video were intresting and should be adressed

Kernel

shroomfox wrote:

Good, you've made progress... although the teaching was difficult.

You're next phase is to try and discover evidence to support your claims before attacking others for refuting them!

I have read loads of evidence, but it is circumstantial, and like I said, people like you will not accept or believe it - so I'd be wasting my time trying to go from "The beginners guide to conspiracy theories" all the way to 911. You research it, and accept it or not, it's your choice. As for attacking others for refuting them, I'm not the one who was dismissing and attacking out of hand, I merely came to defend the illogical attack on tunaman.

It's not difficult to hide the truth when you have access to trillions of dollars per year.

Now carry on being a good consumer and productive citizen.

tba

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

FACT : U.S POLITICIANS WERE ORDERED NOT TO FLY ON COMMERCIAL AIR LINERS DURING THE MONTH OF SEPTEMBER

there may have been suspision of a hijacking

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

FACT : THE WORLD TRADE CENTRE WAS DESIGNED TO WITHSTAND THE IMPACT OF A JUMBO JET

It did twice....

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

FACT : STEEL DOES NOT MELT AT THE HEAT OF THE FIRE THE PLANE CRASH CAUSED

It just has to soften

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

FACT : THE OWNER OF BUILDING 7 ADMITTED TO IT BEING PULLED DESPITE THE US GOVERNMENT SAYING IT COLLAPSED DUE TO FIRE

Im not to sure what your saying

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

FACT : 2 MONTHS BEFORE SEPTEMBER 11 PILOTS WERE ORDERED TO STOP CARRYING GUNS ALSO GEORGE BUSH TOOK OUT A HUGE INSURANCE POLICY ON THE WTC AGAINST TERRORIST ATTACKS

Ordered by who. And GWB? wtf this is the kind on tenious links that were used to go to war in iraq.

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

FACT : ON VIDEO AN EXPLOSION CAN BE SEEN BEFORE THE PLANE HITS THE WORLD TRADE CENTRE

I agree

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

FACT : IN THE RELEASED PENTAGON VIDEO THEY ARE MISSING A VITAL FRAME THAT WOULD SHOW THE PLANE HITTING THE PENTAGON

More importantly they are missing a plane

ianmc38

Wow, cant believe I missed this whole discussion. there appears to be a lot of ignorant forum members jumping on the "conspiracy" bashing bandwagon. Alot of these people have done no research and are preaching as if they are experts on the subject.

When 9/11 first took place I spent about 6 months researching the issue, reading various sources both for and againste each side of the story.

One of the first and most bizarre things I found was an organisation known as the New American Century. This organisation has several renowned names as its' members. People like Donald Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush, Dick Cheney, numerous key figures from large multinational corporations in America, board members of Lockheed and other defence contracting companies.

Even more bizarre was the organisations mission statement on how they would like to change the world. Basically, this outlined a step by step process for what was essentially Americanisation of every corner of the Globe.

Anyhoo, moving swiftly on, many of the occurences on 9/11 are extremely suspicious. Examples - supposed hijackers named on the FBIs list being alive and well, members of the Bin-Laden family being allowed to leave America even though commercial flights out of the country were suspended, reports of explosions in the WTC from firefighters etc etc. We've all seen and heard all these things through various channels.

The simple truth is that we will never know the full story behind any of it. The US Government for whatever reason may have carried ou the attacks. Likewise, they may have had nothing to do with it. There seems to be evidence supporting each side, then contradictory evidence, then new evidence to discredit the contradictory evidence.

Alex Jones is somebody who likes to speak alot on the NWO and the Skull and Bones Society. I'm not a fan of his work as he sensationalises everything he covers, debasing many valid points through his ott journalistic style. Some of what he says is interesting but everything must be taken with a pinch of salt.

A well researched and perfectly told documentary on the origins of 9/11, Islamic fundamentalism etc is called "The Power of Nightmares" and I would recommend it for anyone with an open mind.

Freelancer

ianmc38 wrote:

snip
conspiracy junk
snip


A well researched and perfectly told documentary on the origins of 9/11, Islamic fundamentalism etc is called "The Power of Nightmares" and I would recommend it for anyone with an open mind.

I love this five paragraphs of conspiracy nonsense and then "watch the power of nightmares!!!!!!". The power of nightmares is an excellent documentary which examines the development of the ideology of fundamental Islam and Neo Conservatism, and the role of the CIA and US government in funding Radical Islamic terrorist groups during the Afghan Soviet war.

It is not proof of a conspiracy.

Why people like Kernal and SpAcEd oUt boil my blood is simple. There is a problem here there is a group with an agenda for world policy and they're called the US government. Inane and insipid chatter about NWO or Mind control or how they plotted to destroy the WTC center makes anyone who tries to stand up and actually discuss the situation rationally and intelligently gets lumped in with these nutjob conspiracy theorists.

You meet Anti globalisation protesters or conspiracy theorists and you actually ask them why the "NWO" or the world bank want to control the world and you honestly get the kind of answer that is worthy of
George W "they hate our freedoms" Bush. Most conspiracy theorists start frothing at the mouth and start talking about a "mad lust for power" or a "need for world domination" or "strip our rights and freedoms", you're honestly just as dumb and ignorant as Bush. You've boiled complex Geo Political issues down to "we're the good guys and you're the bad guys". You've learnt your worldview from star wars.

Unless you read something like Stigliz's "globalisation and its' discontents" (Stiligiz former head of the world bank) address the issue of what is the world view and philosophy of an organisation like the world bank, how it's leaders thinks, and tries to address world issues. He explains what its flaws are, and you begin to understand it's not really that the world bank is evil it's just structurally flawed.

But of course any person trying to explain something like this, or the power of nightmares to someone gets lumped in with you bunch of crackpot idiots, and anything approaching intelligent debate gets lost in among "OMG OPEN YOUR EYES PLZ ASHCROFT WUZ ON DE PRIVATES JETZ"

I'm probably wasting my breath talking to people who claim the power of nightmares helps prove their conspiracy when it's an intelligent look at how there isn't a conspiracy and how much of this can be traced back to a Muslim's dislike of a school hop in the 50s Midwest.

Freelancer

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

I never said the video was 100% correct I just said it was intresting,

Now now SpAcEd OuT

you said;

to all the doubters who say that no experts believe WTC was a controlled demolition

You put the video up as proof that an expert believed that the WTC was a controlled demolition. I pointed out your experts field of expertise is in fact "theology" so you've got a load of BS and hot air. onto the next point.

FACT : U.S POLITICIANS WERE ORDERED NOT TO FLY ON COMMERCIAL AIR LINERS DURING THE MONTH OF SEPTEMBER

No "A" (singular) US politician claims he was ordered to take private jets. I submit that the more likely explanation that a corrupt arrogant and near insane US attorney general decided he didn't want to fly with the plebs and took private jets instead, when found out he got the FBI to make up some excuse.

Considering our own politicians fiasco's over the use of government jets which is a more likely story?

FACT : THE WORLD TRADE CENTRE WAS DESIGNED TO WITHSTAND THE IMPACT OF A JUMBO JET

And again, not two jumbo jets, not two jets with full fuel loads, accelerating at the time of impact. No one predicated that.

FACT : STEEL DOES NOT MELT AT THE HEAT OF THE FIRE THE PLANE CRASH CAUSED

Like the man said, it just needs to weaken.

FACT : THE OWNER OF BUILDING 7 ADMITTED TO IT BEING PULLED DESPITE THE US GOVERNMENT SAYING IT COLLAPSED DUE TO FIRE

Again thats really just a side issue.

FACT : 2 MONTHS BEFORE SEPTEMBER 11 PILOTS WERE ORDERED TO STOP CARRYING GUNS ALSO GEORGE BUSH TOOK OUT A HUGE INSURANCE POLICY ON THE WTC AGAINST TERRORIST ATTACKS

See previous comments about Iraq and proof? Are you really suggesting the US were so strapped for cash they did this as an insurance job?

FACT : ON VIDEO AN EXPLOSION CAN BE SEEN BEFORE THE PLANE HITS THE WORLD TRADE CENTRE

On that crappy internet video with the ****ty frame rate on DivX compression? Hell I can show you a JPG which someone claims proves JFK was shot by his driver. Every serious piece of video would dispute both these claims.

FACT : IN THE RELEASED PENTAGON VIDEO THEY ARE MISSING A VITAL FRAME THAT WOULD SHOW THE PLANE HITTING THE PENTAGON

Are you suggesting they cut out a single frame? Or maybe and this is just a punt, most security footage doesn't work in real time, they capture every tenth frame, and it just missed the plane hitting. Of course thousands of people and loads of debry coborate this claims, but I suppose thats just something you'll just ignore.

I could go on, i'm not saying the american government planned this but I do think that MOST of the points raised in that video were intresting and should be adressed

Or are a childish simplistic view of events.

Oh and Kernal, you've ignored one of my posts.

Freelancer

tunaman wrote:

Hey freelancer if you want to see people who have done proper research, I suggest you have a look at the following site, which is full of evidence that makes "the official story" an impossibility.

http://www.st911.org/

If you still believe what you have been told by the US government, I assume you treat the findings of the 9/11 Commission as gospel?

Hey tunaman do you believe every crackpot website you find?!?

From wikipedia;

Although most activists and researchers in the 9/11 Truth Movement have been positive and excited about the formation of a scholars group and most would agree that it is an important step for the movement to take, some also express concern that members of the scholars group and its website are promoting debunked theories which discredit the movement [1], such as the idea that the commercial aircraft used on 9/11 were not actually involved in the attacks, but instead, were replaced by fake planes or military drones, as described by Morgan Reynolds[2] and Leonard Spencer[3], among other members of the group.

Some 9/11 researchers have criticized the website[4][5], noting that it promotes one-sided views of issues which are debated within the movement (such as the idea that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon)[6]. Although the 'Resources' page states, "We do not necessarily endorse or concur with conclusions or opinions expressed here, but we think that they provide suggestive and stimulating resources for further contemplation," only one side of a serious and divisive debate within the 9/11 movement is presented for contemplation. Similarly, papers asserting that a plane did not hit the Pentagon are posted on the front page, but no papers asserting the opposite are posted, that a Boeing 757 did indeed hit the building as described by dozens of witnesses at the scene.

As of February 2006, the website was pointing readers to sources which some members of the 9/11 Truth movement say lack credibility and scientific merit, are packaged as entertainment and distort evidence in favor of their claims. A related concern has been that the website effectively ignores the websites and original work by some of the most respected long-term researchers of the 9/11 attacks, such as CooperativeResearch.org, FromTheWilderness.com, 911Truth.org, OilEmpire.us, 911Research.WTC7.net, Ratical.org/ratville/CAH/, and WTCEO.org. These websites represent the efforts of people who have been effectively dealing with the media, victims' families, and congressmembers for years.In contrast to the scholars group, most of these researchers believe that commercial jets with real passengers did hit the buildings on September 11, 2001.

And finally

Scholars for 9/11 Truth claims these papers have been peer-reviewed, although they have not been published in any scientific journal.

* “Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?” by Steven E. Jones, Ph.D. [7]
* “The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True” by David Ray Griffin, Ph.D. [8]
* “Thinking about "Conspiracy Theories": 9/11 and JFK” by James H. Fetzer, Ph.D. [9]

So your "proper research" hasn't been held up to the simplistic of scientific rigours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholars_for_9/11_Truth

shroomfox

ianmc: Why do all the conspiracy theorists assume that people who argue against them don't know anything about the events? I know all about PNAC and the Neocons - in fact, I knew about them before September 11th. I've watched the 9/11 documentary/compendium and I read about politics all the time. But because I dismiss the NWO conspiracy theory, I'm automatically ignorant, or stupid or unintelligent. Jesus.

Freelancer wrote:

I love this five paragraphs of conspiracy nonsense and then "watch the power of nightmares!!!!!!". The power of nightmares is an excellent documentary which examines the development of the ideology of fundamental Islam and...

Freelancer, excellent post. Exactly my views.

red dave

ianmc38 "there appears to be a lot of ignorant forum members jumping on the "conspiracy" bashing bandwagon "


Freelancer: "you're honestly just as dumb and ignorant as Bush. You've boiled complex Geo Political issues down to "we're the good guys and you're the bad guys". You've learnt your worldview from star wars.....


But of course any person trying to explain something like this, or the power of nightmares to someone gets lumped in with you bunch of crackpot idiots......"


shroomfox: "because I dismiss the NWO conspiracy theory, I'm automatically ignorant, or stupid or unintelligent. Jesus"

It's ridiculous that there cannot be a sensible debate without insulting each other.