New Cold War ?

Pazaz 21

The recent anouncement of the USA/INDIA Nuclear deal has had a lot of people talking. Indeed the deal is for nuclear reactors for "civic use", to produce power,etc. India already have 8 "Military Reactors" and under the new deal none of these would be monitored and they would be able to produce an unlimited amount of fiddile material, thus creating a huge nuclear arsenal.

The more interesting thing, though, is the talks between Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf and the Chineese. Feeling left out by America's deal with India, Musharraf might be tempted to sign a deal with China. China, maybe deciding to flex its new economic and global muscle, might offer Muaharraf such a deal.

And thats where the fun starts ......

This could lead to a new Nuclear arms race and with America on one side and China on the other, who knows where this could lead ?

Unpossible

I thought that india and pakistan already had nuclear weapons.

If there's a cold war comming then I would guess that it will be between some middle eastern countries and the west/israel (with china telling the west to keep its nose out of other countries buisness).

Pazaz 21

Unpossible wrote:

I thought that india and pakistan already had nuclear weapons.

If there's a cold war comming then I would guess that it will be between some middle eastern countries and the west/israel (with china telling the west to keep its nose out of other countries buisness).

India and Pakistan are already nuclear powers. The point is that Pakistan(with the backing of China) will feel compeled to build up its own nuclear arsenal because India( with the backing of the USA) has an unlimited ability to build up its own nuclear arsenal. Both countries already have nuclear arseanls but will start to stockpile when they have materials and expertiese from the respective countries. Thus leading to a "nuclear arms race", like "the space race", "the arms race", etc.


The war between the middle east countries and the west/israel is a "Hot" war signified by the bombing, shooting and general killing of people going on over there. So therefore it cannot be a "cold" war, now can it ?

flogen

It's rediculous to see the US deal with India (yes, their deal is civilian, but it's still a deal) when they won't deal with Iran... I would have thought (and would have liked to see) US policy would support general embargos put on any country that has nuclear weapons, to do a deal with nuclear weapons is even stupider.

Of course, if the US knows they aren't a threat, then they're allowed because they need to protect themselves (Israel)... but what about the countries that want to protect themselves from their enemies with the bomb?? Surely if India is allowed to have weapons because Pakistan does and vice-versa, then Iran should be allowed get some to protect itself against Israel?!

However, this deal is unlikely to be a spark; the situation on India's nuclear weapons arsenal remains unchanged, it's just their civilian that has US support; in other words Pakistan has no extra reason to start an arms race than before.

LostinBlanch

AFAIK co-operation between Pakistan and China has gone on since the 60's and 70's. The Chinese even built a highway across the Himalayas to Pakistan. India was always seen as an ally of the US which left Pakistan isolated. So Pakistan was looking for an ally and China was looking to extend it's sphere of influence and give the US something to think about.

Well that's my simplistic take on it anyway.

Pazaz 21

LostinBlanch wrote:

AFAIK co-operation between Pakistan and China has gone on since the 60's and 70's. The Chinese even built a highway across the Himalayas to Pakistan. India was always seen as an ally of the US which left Pakistan isolated. So Pakistan was looking for an ally and China was looking to extend it's sphere of influence and give the US something to think about.

Well that's my simplistic take on it anyway.

Have the USA and India been seen as allies for long ? When did this start ?

zuma

LostinBlanch wrote:

AFAIK co-operation between Pakistan and China has gone on since the 60's and 70's. The Chinese even built a highway across the Himalayas to Pakistan. India was always seen as an ally of the US which left Pakistan isolated. So Pakistan was looking for an ally and China was looking to extend it's sphere of influence and give the US something to think about.

Well that's my simplistic take on it anyway.

You got that mixed up there!

In the 70's when Pakistan&India were having another War...the US was prepared to NUKE India.

Dont believe me?
http://go.ucsusa.org/global_security/archive/page.cfm?pageID=620

During the 1971 war, the United States sent an aircraft carrier believed to be armed with nuclear weapons into the Bay of Bengal -- an act some in India interpreted as signaling support for Pakistan. This gunboat diplomacy may have been the final straw prompting India to develop nuclear weapons. Following several years' preparation, India conducted its first and only nuclear test explosion in 1974

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971

The United States supported Pakistan both politically and materially. U.S. President Richard Nixon denied getting involved in the situation, saying that it was an internal matter of Pakistan. But when Pakistan's defeat seemed certain, Nixon sent the USS Enterprise to the Bay of Bengal, a move deemed by the Indians as a nuclear threat [1]. Enterprise arrived on station on December 11, 1971.

Pazaz 21

Thanks for those links, really shed a lot of light of the history of the situation. Didn't realise that USA and Pakistan went back that far in their dealings, interesting !!!

LostinBlanch

OK I'll come out with my hands up! I was given wrong info. Cheers for enlightening me though

b2p

To be honset I dont think much is going to change. India and Pakistan have had nuclear capability for quite some time already, and the reactors being built are for civilian use. Nuclear energy is going to be very important resource in the near future and i think a lot of people think it is more dangerous than it really is.

As long as the USA are willing to make sure its done properly, and given that they are involved in campaigns to reduce HEU (highly enriched uranium) reactors to LEU (low enriched uranium) which is useless for a weapons development, among other factors, than hopefully there shouldn't be any need for any countries involved to feel the need to enter themselves into a new arms race.

Pazaz 21

India already have 8 "Military Reactors" as they call them which will stay exempt from security checks and monitoring under the new USA-Inda Nuklear deal. Fair enough the other reactors will be used for civilian use and will be monitored but their not the reactors i'm worried about !

I'm sure Pakistan have their own "Military reactors" but i know that it ain't as many as India. India currently have about 8 - 10 times as many nukes as Pakistan has and this is because Pakistan cannot afford to build more "Military Reactors" and thus cannot produce or stockpile as many nuclear weapons as India can.

But if China were to lend a hand, financially, materially and with some expertise i'm sure that could be changed !

Pazaz 21

India already have 8 "Military Reactors" as they call them which will stay exempt from security checks and monitoring under the new USA-Inda Nuclear deal. Fair enough the other reactors will be used for civilian use and will be monitored but their not the reactors i'm worried about !

I'm sure Pakistan have their own "Military reactors" but i know that it ain't as many as India. India currently have about 8 - 10 times as many nukes as Pakistan has and this is because Pakistan cannot afford to build more "Military Reactors" and thus cannot produce or stockpile as many nuclear weapons as India can.

But if China were to lend a hand, financially, materially and with some expertise i'm sure that could be changed !

zuma

Those military reactors are probable breeder reactors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeder_reactor

And yes you can produce plutonium for your fission/fusion bombs with these!
Have India/Pakistan got Fusion warheads as they are far more powerfull than Fision warheads?

Moriarty

flogen wrote:

It's rediculous to see the US deal with India (yes, their deal is civilian, but it's still a deal) when they won't deal with Iran... I would have thought (and would have liked to see) US policy would support general embargos put on any country that has nuclear weapons, to do a deal with nuclear weapons is even stupider.

The US, EU and the UNSC have all recognised Iran's right to a civilian nuclear program. The problem from the begining has been that Iran has failed to provide assurances that they aren't covertly operating a military nuclear program.

Russia recently offered Iran (with the backing of the EU and US) nuclear fuel, in exchange for Iran not activating a breeder reactor. The EU, US and Russia were effectively offering Iran a complete civilian nuclear program if Iran would demonstrate beyond doubt that they aren't pursuing nuclear weapons. Iran refused the offer.

Pazaz 21

Looks like the US/INDIA Nuclear deal may be going south. A lot of fuss in congress about India's growing relationship with Iran both politically and militarilty.

As well as all the other problems with giving India free reign with its Nuclear programme and such.:rolleyes:

MySelf56

One finer point also we should note here is US nuclear deal may also open up US Arms business (who knows they already a part hidden deal) can gain slice of Indian arms shopping trolley. Indian military used to dependent mostly on Russian and British/EU. As Indian air force/navy now looking for modernization of their equipment and their fleet, it’s the time for American companies like Northrop, Boeing, Lockheed and other players can do business with Indian govt.

Money Talks...!!