Undocumented Irish???

samb

Does anyone else share my outrage at RTE for calling illegal irish imigrants in the US 'undocumented Irish' but would not use the same terminology for illegals of other nationalities. How is this justified? and how is it anything other than racist.

Karl Hungus

"Undocumented" is the new PC term for illegal immigrant. I think you're jumping on a precieved injustice. It's simply a new term that's replacing a supposedly 'Offensive' one.

Hobbes

It gets funnier when you use that too. They had Major Guilliani on over paddys day and said does he support the rights of the undocumented Irish. His reply was something like "I think we should put systems and processes in place to help get them documented". Nicely dodged question.

BrianD

Yeah we seem to have a precious view of ourselves in both the America and Australia. Don't you know we built these countries? Eh, no we didn't! We may have been the largest group of immigrants at one time and made a contribution at that point but we seem to forget the contribution of (a) other nationalities who were there in large groups (English, German, Swedes etc) in the past and (b) the Hispanics who are now essentially Americas labour force. The Irish were not singularly responsible for building America and certainly not Australia.

Ther is no just call for an amnesty for Irish Americans who have lived and worked illegally in the States unless it's part of a wider programme. If you are illegal you are unlikely to be working outside of the labour/service industry and therefore making as equal a contibution as, say, a mexican illegal.

You also hear that the Irish illegals are not 'sponging' off the American economy. This implies that other illegals are. This is bizarre given that the social welfare system is so poor that even natural citizens would have difficulty sponging off it.

Bush's statement on Paddy's day was pretty straightforward. Times are good at home, maybe you should head there.

SCULLY

Karl Hungus wrote:

"Undocumented" is the new PC term for illegal immigrant. I think you're jumping on a precieved injustice. It's simply a new term that's replacing a supposedly 'Offensive' one.

Does this new term apply to all who were previously known as illegal immigrants, including those in Ireland or only to those irish abroad??

If its the former then this is just a rebranding excercise - if its the latter then it a case of labling one group of people differently to another similar group of people based on race.

Karl Hungus

SCULLY wrote:

Does this new term apply to all who were previously known as illegal immigrants, including those in Ireland or only to those irish abroad??

If its the former then this is just a rebranding excercise - if its the latter then it a case of labling one group of people differently to another similar group of people based on race.

Well, as far as I know, it applies to all. I believe I first heard it being used in the context of 'Undocumented' Mexican immigrants.

samb

Karl Hungus wrote:

Well, as far as I know, it applies to all. I believe I first heard it being used in the context of 'Undocumented' Mexican immigrants.

I get you now, it is a new american PC term. That still doesn't explain why RTE are using it for the Irish in America but do not use it for immigrants in Ireland. If we adopt the term we should apply it to all here.

I think it is amazing that Bertie can feel he has a right to poke is nose in the immigration policy of the US, yet he cannot (or will not) ensure that CIA planes are not carrying out unlawful activities within this country.

simu

samb wrote:

I think it is amazing that Bertie can feel he has a right to poke is nose in the immigration policy of the US, yet he cannot (or will not) ensure that CIA planes are not carrying out unlawful activities within this country.

He seems to take more interest in US immigration policy than our own - pathetic imo!

metrovelvet

I dont understand why you think its offensive.

Brian D, I was at a Paddys Day function where there were several mayors from different counties in Ireland visiting NYC and one of them told me he had been to Ellis Island and like most Irish people had thought only Irish people had been through it. That kind of self centredness takes the cake.

The worst thing about illegal immigration is that it allows creepy business owners to get away with not paying people properly, and in the case of the undocumented Irish its usually the documented Irish who are doing the exploiting.

Why should illegal Irish have more rights than other illegals.

Zombrex

samb wrote:

Does anyone else share my outrage at RTE for calling illegal irish imigrants in the US 'undocumented Irish' but would not use the same terminology for illegals of other nationalities. How is this justified? and how is it anything other than racist.

Undocumented workers is how they are referred to in the US. RTE are using both the word "illegal" and "undocumented" in their reports.

It sure is stormy in this tea cup ... :rolleyes:

samb

Wicknight wrote:

It sure is stormy in this tea cup ... :rolleyes:

Ye, ye, ye. maybe outrage was the wrong word. I should have said has anyone elso noticed this objectional and unfair terminology

Zombrex

samb wrote:

Ye, ye, ye. maybe outrage was the wrong word. I should have said has anyone elso noticed this objectional and unfair terminology

I agree that using the term "undocumented" instead of "illegal" is PC nonsense. They mean exactly the same thing. It is like calling a burglery an "uninvited entry". I suppose some people think there is more negative stigma with the term "illegal". But this is America we are talking about.

But I don't think RTE are using the term undocumented for any reason other than that is how the issue is being termed in the states. If everyone here started calling illegal immigrants "undocumented" immigrants I would imagine RTE would too.

BrianD

Karl Hungus wrote:

Well, as far as I know, it applies to all. I believe I first heard it being used in the context of 'Undocumented' Mexican immigrants.

Well there is good reason for the US government to start using the word "undocumented" as opposed to "illegal". By using the word "undocumented" it makes it seem if some ones status can be cured by a small bit of administration as opposed to "illegal" that suggests the only cure is jail or deportation as you are clearly a problem.

Here's my take ... The Americans found themselves in a bit of a state after 9/11. Who were all these undocumented people, are they a threat and can we kick them out? Ironically, the 9/11 perpetrators were very well documented! Then they realised that the service industry depended on many of these undocumented as cheap labour. Big problem and big business always wins over security. So by calling them undocumented they could (if they want to) start a process of documenting the desirable ones and big business and the pentagon are happy. It's a play on words. There is no reason why the Irish should be included in this process but there is no reason why they shoud have preference over others, many of they from the American continent.

Zombrex

BrianD wrote:

It's a play on words.

True. American actually needs a lot of these illegal immigrants, but calling them illegal makes it sound like they are a problem, that people are breaking the law (which of course technically they are, but a law a lot of people and businesses are happy to have them break).

So "undocument" changes emphasis on the status not the illegality of the immigrant. You can then talk about the illegal immigrants without constantly referring to the fact that they are all technically breaking the law.