Rock Road traffic chaos

RobAMerc · 15-12-2006 5:22pm

Apologies,
I was after spending 90 mins in the car getting to work when I read the post and lost the rag a bit.

Circumstaneces have me working on the far north side of Dublin so I am not just heading into town - the m50 is not an option as its a car park

I would love to use public transport if it were reliable cheap effecient or clean - none of which are available in Ireland and particulary on my route. When living in a number of other cities I always did.

I hate the "Use Public transport and tax them out of the car" attitude here when there is no alternative.

I have edited the remark.

John R · 16-12-2006 7:10am

RobAMerc wrote:

I hate the "Use Public transport and tax them out of the car" attitude here when there is no alternative.

And how will there ever be an alternative unless roadspace is taken from cars to allow public transport operate efficiently?

I would love to use public transport if it were reliable cheap effecient or clean - none of which are available in Ireland

That is the mantra of pretty much every car commuter in the world when questioned, the truth is it is more often than not a quick excuse for people that have no intention of giving up the convenience of their car no matter how good the alternative is.

RobAMerc · 19-12-2006 1:22pm

As I stated before - when living in a number of other cities I always took public transport, and if I was 50/50 JohnR, your comments would actually make me turn my back on public transport.
I doubt even the most avid public transport user would consider the Dun Laoghaire - Swords commute as having a good or workable service.

Anyway - we are going ot here, my point is the rock road bus lanes will add to the chaos not fix anything.

They will look nice and empty (and tempting) though, while the poor commuters are stuck in the lane beside them.

John R · 19-12-2006 1:57pm

RobAMerc wrote:

As I stated before - when living in a number of other cities I always took public transport, and if I was 50/50 JohnR, your comments would actually make me turn my back on public transport.

Should I be flattered that a 30 second post has had such an effect on you? I notice you didn't answer the question that I posed though.

RobAMerc wrote:

I doubt even the most avid public transport user would consider the Dun Laoghaire - Swords commute as having a good or workable service.

DART DunLaoghaire-Malahide (50mns), Bus 230 Malahide-Swords (10mns).

DART DunLaoghaire-Tara Street (20mns), Bus 33/41/41c Abbey St-Swords (45-60mns)

RobAMerc wrote:

Anyway - we are going ot here, my point is the rock road bus lanes will add to the chaos not fix anything.

...For Car commuters. For bus users they will considerably improve things.

RobAMerc wrote:

They will look nice and empty (and tempting) though, while the poor commuters are stuck in the lane beside them.

Empty apart from the 15 or so buses per hour (peak) that will be using them.

Despite the proximity of the DART line the 7 is one of the city's busiest bus routes and the 45 is very heavily used also.

RobAMerc · 19-12-2006 3:32pm

In answer to your question - the bus is not the only option for public transport, there should be under/over ground train, tram, proper bike lanes (not white lines down the side of a bus lane). The roads should be left for the traffic they were intended for.

As for your timetable - add in 10min walk to dart station - or 10 min wait for bus to dart. 10 min wait for train - 10 min wait for bus at other end plus walk from bus to job not withstanding the optimistic times you quote for journey times plus unreliable services, leaves a disasterous time that would make the 35 - 90 mins you could spend in the car seem worth while.
Also - This is peak times, I often work late and would most probably end up getting a cab home if I relied on Pub transport at that hr.

As for the spectacular service into town you talk of, I left home at 6.30pm recently to get bus into town - 45mins and one very wet fellow later, I got on the bus - a world class service no doubt.

I do try, so please loose the lectures - you will turn me off public transport for good.

OT Means off topic.

MrPudding · 19-12-2006 4:05pm

RobAMerc wrote:

Ok, these guys have seen the utter chaos on the Rock road for the last X months as it has been reduced to one lane, and they still go an paint a BUS lane on it which leads me to believe they are gonna use it !

Is this not nuts !
Do these idiots go out of their way to annoy already demented commuters ?

This is old news TBH. They announced it before the work even began.

There has been some mention of a tidal system but I will believe that when I see it.

MrP

John R · 19-12-2006 5:26pm

RobAMerc wrote:

In answer to your question - the bus is not the only option for public transport, there should be under/over ground train, tram, proper bike lanes (not white lines down the side of a bus lane).

Should, would, could. The reality is what it is and that bus corridor is very busy even with some lousy journey times. The people using these services have a right to the space as much as car commuters, even more so if you compare the numbers of PEOPLE the lane can accomodate in buses versus cars.

If/when enough of those other options are built THEN you could possibly justify giving more roadspace to private cars. Until then it is necessary to fit an ever increasing amount of people on a finite amount of roadspace and the only way that can happen is by prioritising more space efficient means. 1 bus (max 90, average approx 60 people) takes up the same roadspace as 2-3 cars (max 15, average 4 people)

RobAMerc wrote:

The roads should be left for the traffic they were intended for.

Horse and cart, penny farthing bicycles, pedestrians or possibly street trams?

You certainly can't be referring to tens of thousands of modern cars because the streets of Dublin certainly were never designed to accomodate them.

RobAMerc wrote:

As for your timetable - add in 10min walk to dart station - or 10 min wait for bus to dart. 10 min wait for train - 10 min wait for bus at other end plus walk from bus to job not withstanding the optimistic times you quote for journey times plus unreliable services, leaves a disasterous time that would make the 35 - 90 mins you could spend in the car seem worth while.

I was giving an indication of the options with realistic segment timings, not a door-to-door timetable. Of course there is waiting time and the inconvenience of PT not being as close to your door as your car.

RobAMerc wrote:

Also - This is peak times, I often work late and would most probably end up getting a cab home if I relied on Pub transport at that hr.

At those sort of times the bus lane is a non-issue anyway, they are not in operation and there is more than enough capacity in one lane to allow the traffic to flow.

RobAMerc wrote:

As for the spectacular service into town you talk of, I left home at 6.30pm recently to get bus into town - 45mins and one very wet fellow later, I got on the bus - a world class service no doubt.

I never said there was a spectacular service on that route, far from it. but the numbers I gave are accurate. With the 5, 7, 7A, 8, 45 and the increased and extended 4 to Blackrok due in the new year there will be 15 buses per hour on that section of road.

The fact is the current (slow and unreliable) service is very busy so a faster more frequent and more reliable (thanks to less traffic jams) service WILL increase useage.

RobAMerc wrote:

I do try, so please loose the lectures - you will turn me off public transport for good.

You say that like it is some sort of threat. Honestly I don't care if I turn you off public transport for good, it is a (relatively) free country and if my words have that effect on you then so be it. I am not a spokesperson for anything and it is certainly not my job to persuade you into doing anything.

I am much more interested in seeing the PT infrastructure improve so that more people, even those without a car, can get around the city properly and this is a small step in the right direction.

RobAMerc wrote:

OT Means off topic.

Just because you don't like what I have said doesn't make it OT (BTW I had no idea what OT meant before now, thank you so very much for telling me)
it is all very much on the topic of your OP suggesting that putting a bus lane on the Rock Road is nuts.

Truth be told I don't even agree that the bus lane will have a disastrous effect on the road. As someone who has lived in the Dun Laoghaire area for most of the last 30 years I cannot remember a time when that road was anything but a traffic blackspot.

15 years ago I used to go by bus to college and it would regularly take 1h30-1h45 to get in. The road has a number of bottlenecks, having two lanes always allowed a large number of cars to enter sections where there was not enough space to exit so the traffic backed up. With only one traffic lane the queues will back up farther with less cars in between junctions but the sections will clear quicker. There may be more delays and there will be delays in different roads but I expect that there will not be a great deal of difference in journey times to before the roadworks began.