Golf woes

exactiv

Hi.

I bought my '99 VW Golf 1.6S a year ago from a Toyota dealer in Cork. Lovely car, comfortline pack (alacantara trim, arm rest, elecs) and low miles with 48k on the clock. It came with a years warranty and a years breakdown assist. All sounded great when I bought it, and they gave me a decent trade in deal for my old car. The salesman I bought if off said if I ever broke down he wouldn't see me stuck for a spare car either.

So, apart from some minor stuff (elec mirrors not working, cup holder, silly stuff really, but all fixed under warranty) the car has been great for the last year.

So now, three days BEFORE the warranty is up the gearbox packs up (garage said some differential thing inside the 'box disintegrated). Leaving me and my two passengers stranded in Dingle. But luckily my warranty is covering it

My question really is, is this kind of thing normal to break in a golf? Like, do they have gearbox problems? I don't drive it very hard, and I never grind the gears. And I'm easy on the clutch.

Has this happened to anyone else?

crosstownk

Firstly, you bought it second hand so you don't know what the other driver was like.
Secondly, I've seen these pack up before - its not that common but its regular enough - maybe 1-2% of Golfs - Once it's under warranty then not so bad.
Did you get a replacement car?

fletch

You're very lucky the dealer is honouring the warranty....my sister bought a '99 Punto with a years warranty and it has been endless trouble since she got it, none of which was covered by the warranty....everything from gears, clutch, starter motor to head gasket....every week or so it's something new...then again the car is approachin 100k miles.

lomb

very unusual. must have ran out of oil id say, perhaps a leak of some kind. its also possible there was metal fatigue in some parts due to bad casting. they sorted out problems in latter mkivs. for example early mkivs had throttle body problems. latter ones had active charcoal filters to solve the problem.
in any case, its all being covered under warranty so nothing to worry about.

crosstownk

I think most of the time it's metal fatigue of the diff bearing causing the diff to run out of true and breaking the bearing even further and finally it damages the gearbox casing.

crosstownk

fletch wrote:

You're very lucky the dealer is honouring the warranty....my sister bought a '99 Punto with a years warranty and it has been endless trouble since she got it, none of which was covered by the warranty....everything from gears, clutch, starter motor to head gasket....every week or so it's something new...then again the car is approachin 100k miles.

Ah yes..........FIAT

---

Fix It Again Tomorrow and Fcuk It After That.

maidhc

fletch wrote:

You're very lucky the dealer is honouring the warranty....my sister bought a '99 Punto with a years warranty and it has been endless trouble since she got it, none of which was covered by the warranty....everything from gears, clutch, starter motor to head gasket....every week or so it's something new...then again the car is approachin 100k miles.

What did the warranty cover????

Toyotas "dealer cover" is good alright and from experience Toyota dealers are very reasonable to deal with, Keary's in particular.

crosstownk

Keary's are good alright - but most Toyota dealers are.

exactiv

We drove from Cork to Dingle. When we got to Dingle we stopped at a shop for 5 minutes before heading out the road about 7 miles. When I took off the clutch started slipping. I didn't have time to do anything about it (10pm) so I left it til the morning. I noticed the following morning that there was oil on the ground under the car, but the engine oil level was fine.

Anyway, the garage said that the oil had leaked out onto the clutch (hence the slippage). So when it ran out of oil it tore itslef apart... They said there was no evidence of outer casing damage and the problem was internal (so I didn't hit a rock or anything like that).

I worried about the rest of the car now. They're going to fit a re-conditioned 'box. Should I just sell it and cut my losses and buy a different one in case this one goes belly up?

I rang them today to organise a replacement car and the guy in the service dept said my warranty didn't include a replacement car. I lost it with him and told him what the salesman had told me. He rang me back and said he'd leave a car in a local garage for me to collect after work. I arrived out to pick it up and it was a total heap of ****. '00 Corrola that was so dirty inside it ruined my suit and it had no petrol in it. I left it there and got a lift home. He's going to get an earful tomorrow. Waste of time.

I wouldn't have named the dealer til crosstownk mentioned Kearys, I wouldn't give them the time of the day. Never have I had worse service. Their service department is terrible.

maidhc

I have found them excellent to deal with, to the extent of proving a free replacement alloy that I damaged. The Toyotas we have had have been far from good reliability wise (headgaskets, clutches, flywheels, suspensions...), but the service has been outstanding, although a bit on the expensive side.

I guess if the warranty didnt include a replacment car then you can hardly complain, just be thankful the gearbox died when it did!!

bazz26

exactiv wrote:

I rang them today to organise a replacement car and the guy in the service dept said my warranty didn't include a replacement car. I lost it with him and told him what the salesman had told me. He rang me back and said he'd leave a car in a local garage for me to collect after work. I arrived out to pick it up and it was a total heap of ****. '00 Corrola that was so dirty inside it ruined my suit and it had no petrol in it. I left it there and got a lift home. He's going to get an earful tomorrow. Waste of time.

I wouldn't have named the dealer til crosstownk mentioned Kearys, I wouldn't give them the time of the day. Never have I had worse service. Their service department is terrible.

In fairness if you had bought the same car from a VW main dealer you probably would have got a maximum warranty of six months with your Golf and you would probably be paying for the new gearbox out of your own pocket now plus the price of a rental car.

I have heard stories of the gearbox packing in on one or two MkIV Golfs at 30k miles before but just put it down to bad luck. It looks like it is more common than I thought.

lomb

exactiv wrote:

W

I rang them today to organise a replacement car and the guy in the service dept said my warranty didn't include a replacement car. I lost it with him and told him what the salesman had told me. He rang me back and said he'd leave a car in a local garage for me to collect after work. I arrived out to pick it up and it was a total heap of ****. '00 Corrola that was so dirty inside it ruined my suit and it had no petrol in it. I left it there and got a lift home. He's going to get an earful tomorrow. Waste of time.

personally i think u are doing pretty well with a gearbox replacement.however if u were promised a replacement then thats what u should get a deals a deal as they say. id consider selling the car for a 2002 or 2003 1.4. this will feel faster or more drivable than the old 1.6 8valver and has all the problems sorted to boot. the arrival of the new mk5 has depressed prices of late mk4s, so u should be able to pick one up for a few quid on your car. incidentally id say your car is worth in the region of 6500-6750 privately. u should pick up a nice 2003 1.4 with some nice extras for around 12500. remember u are going up 4 years and it will be a very very nice car.

BeardyGit

exactiv wrote:

We drove from Cork to Dingle. When we got to Dingle we stopped at a shop for 5 minutes before heading out the road about 7 miles. When I took off the clutch started slipping. I didn't have time to do anything about it (10pm) so I left it til the morning. I noticed the following morning that there was oil on the ground under the car, but the engine oil level was fine.

Anyway, the garage said that the oil had leaked out onto the clutch (hence the slippage). So when it ran out of oil it tore itslef apart... They said there was no evidence of outer casing damage and the problem was internal (so I didn't hit a rock or anything like that).

I worried about the rest of the car now. They're going to fit a re-conditioned 'box. Should I just sell it and cut my losses and buy a different one in case this one goes belly up?

I rang them today to organise a replacement car and the guy in the service dept said my warranty didn't include a replacement car. I lost it with him and told him what the salesman had told me. He rang me back and said he'd leave a car in a local garage for me to collect after work. I arrived out to pick it up and it was a total heap of ****. '00 Corrola that was so dirty inside it ruined my suit and it had no petrol in it. I left it there and got a lift home. He's going to get an earful tomorrow. Waste of time.

I wouldn't have named the dealer til crosstownk mentioned Kearys, I wouldn't give them the time of the day. Never have I had worse service. Their service department is terrible.

No experience with Keary's but if I could give you one piece of advice it's this - Don't abuse the guy on the service desk. You should have got it in writing from the salesman on your warranty document and I'd imagine the service desk did you a favour by trying to sort out a car for you at VERY short notice.

If it wasn't cleaned, tough luck - Busy garages don't have time to valet a car they drag 'round from the back lockup to help out a guy who doesn't have car replacement on his warranty. A deal's a deal means NOTHING when you're dealing with a dealer/salesman. Read that again. The lads in the service depot really were likely trying to sort you out. I'd wager they didn't bother speaking to sales, just the service manager to see if they could fix you up with something for a couple of days.

You should have known better than to get into a garage car without checking the seats first if you're wearing a decent suit. That's common sense to be honest. And I'd imagine there was enough juice in it to get you to a petrol station - What more do you expect? It's not like they're going to be running your tank dry while it's up on the ramp, is it? I've had replacement cars from garages for many years when our company vehicles were in for work. Not ONCE was it given to me in the condition in which I maintain my cars and not once was the fuel warning light extinguished. That's the way it works and it annoys me to see common sense escaping people when it's so bloody obvious. You're NOT renting the car - You have it on loan from the garage. They owe you nothing except a repair on your golf.

They're fixing your car under warranty, without quible & they tried sorting you out with a replacement (which you're not paying for) and you want to give the service mechanics an ear-full? Give it a rest or take it out on the sales guy or general manager - NOT on anyone on the service desk. And when you're done, remember that it's up to you to check the fine print when you're buying anything - That includes warranty paperwork.

crosstownk

Gil_Dub wrote:

No experience with Keary's but if I could give you one piece of advice it's this - Don't abuse the guy on the service desk. You should have got it in writing from the salesman on your warranty document and I'd imagine the service desk did you a favour by trying to sort out a car for you at VERY short notice.

If it wasn't cleaned, tough luck - Busy garages don't have time to valet a car they drag 'round from the back lockup to help out a guy who doesn't have car replacement on his warranty. A deal's a deal means NOTHING when you're dealing with a dealer/salesman. Read that again. The lads in the service depot really were likely trying to sort you out. I'd wager they didn't bother speaking to sales, just the service manager to see if they could fix you up with something for a couple of days.

You should have known better than to get into a garage car without checking the seats first if you're wearing a decent suit. That's common sense to be honest. And I'd imagine there was enough juice in it to get you to a petrol station - What more do you expect? It's not like they're going to be running your tank dry while it's up on the ramp, is it? I've had replacement cars from garages for many years when our company vehicles were in for work. Not ONCE was it given to me in the condition in which I maintain my cars and not once was the fuel warning light extinguished. That's the way it works and it annoys me to see common sense escaping people when it's so bloody obvious. You're NOT renting the car - You have it on loan from the garage. They owe you nothing except a repair on your golf.

They're fixing your car under warranty, without quible & they tried sorting you out with a replacement (which you're not paying for) and you want to give the service mechanics an ear-full? Give it a rest or take it out on the sales guy or general manager - NOT on anyone on the service desk. And when you're done, remember that it's up to you to check the fine print when you're buying anything - That includes warranty paperwork.

Respect - you know the trade as I do - you are 100% correct

crosstownk

In the company I work for we have a fleet of 20 replacement cars and we operate a 'clean car policy'. But sometimes due to delivery time pressure and customers needs it's impossible to always provide a clean car. We have a 95% success rate!

fletch

maidhc wrote:

What did the warranty cover????

Very little...the garage even told my sister that they would make sure it got through the NCT when the time came around, so my sister drops the car in a week before the NCT only to be landed with a bill for €600....my sister being the type that gets walked all over she handed over the cash....oooh it made me so angry but I had so much other stuff on I couldn't fight her corner

exactiv

No experience with Keary's but if I could give you one piece of advice it's this - Don't abuse the guy on the service desk. You should have got it in writing from the salesman on your warranty document and I'd imagine the service desk did you a favour by trying to sort out a car for you at VERY short notice.

The reason for giving out to the guy behind the service desk is this. The car went into them on tuesday last because it wasn't starting first try when cold. They check it, replaced a temp. sensor in the engine and cleaned the throttle body. The idle revs were very erratic after I picked it up so I rang them back to find out why and was told that the computer in the car would have to relearn the throttle flow. Fine, that's grand I said and I drove away fine. Then it was still all over the place on Thursday, and I had a lot of driving to do over the weekend, so I rang them again to find out if I was going to end up stranded in West Kerry. I was assured I would not break down by the service manager. I did break down. Lost an entire sunday of a bank holiday waiting for my roadside assistance. When I rang Kearys on Monday morning I was obviously upset at having been stranded. Especially after being assured everything would be fine. Writing or not, I had a verbal agreement with the salesman who sold me the car. I know I should have gotten it in writing, fair point, but that's not much good to me at this stage. Either way, when I bought the car I was told I would have a replacement free of charge, so that is what I am entitled to.

If it wasn't cleaned, tough luck - Busy garages don't have time to valet a car they drag 'round from the back lockup to help out a guy who doesn't have car replacement on his warranty.

These large garages sell cars, there are loads of used cars sitting on their forecourts in excellent condition.

A deal's a deal means NOTHING when you're dealing with a dealer/salesman. Read that again. The lads in the service depot really were likely trying to sort you out. I'd wager they didn't bother speaking to sales, just the service manager to see if they could fix you up with something for a couple of days.

Actually, they did speak to sales. He spoke to the sales manager to get a car organised for me.

You should have known better than to get into a garage car without checking the seats first if you're wearing a decent suit. That's common sense to be honest. And I'd imagine there was enough juice in it to get you to a petrol station - What more do you expect?

Hold your horses there now, I got a lift out to pick up the car. I got dropped off by a friend, who then went home himself. It was after business hours so they left the car outside the dealer gates for me. I sat into the car AND THEN realised my mistake. The inside of the car looked like someone had shoveled dry mud onto the seats, and that's no exaggeration. It was dark and I couldn't see the interior properly from outside the car. And what the hell is "should have known better than to get into a garage car" about? I don't work in the car trade, how the hell was I to know they were going to give me a glorified skip? This is a main Toyota dealer, if it was Johnny O'Sullivans garage it his back yard shed I'd have been more careful. I take your point about the petrol, yes I should pay my own way, it was just another thing after an exasperating evening.

I've had replacement cars from garages for many years when our company vehicles were in for work. Not ONCE was it given to me in the condition in which I maintain my cars and not once was the fuel warning light extinguished.

Well then you should have kicked up a fuss and asked for something better. Don't be so bloody Irish and just accept what you are given. They're not doing you any favours by giving you a replacement car if, by what you have said above, you DID get it in writing.

That's the way it works and it annoys me to see common sense escaping people when it's so bloody obvious. You're NOT renting the car - You have it on loan from the garage. They owe you nothing except a repair on your golf.

They're fixing your car under warranty, without quible & they tried sorting you out with a replacement (which you're not paying for) and you want to give the service mechanics an ear-full? Give it a rest or take it out on the sales guy or general manager - NOT on anyone on the service desk. And when you're done, remember that it's up to you to check the fine print when you're buying anything - That includes warranty paperwork.

The way it works my arse, this is business. They owe me what was agreed, fine print or no. If I don't find the replacement acceptable the I have every right to complain. I PAYED them a lot of money for a car whcih included a warranty (written or not) and they are obliged to honour that agreement. It was not without quibble either. I had to argue with the guy to get the gearbox fixed.

Kellehers Toyota garage in Tralee are fixing my car (with re-conditioned parts I might add, which is another crock of ****) and I should have it back by the end of the week. Much more pleasant to deal with as well.

They are a private company doing everything possible to make maximum profit and minimum loss (which is fine, every company does the same). But if an organisation tries to sidestep their responsibilty to me of decent customer care I am not afraid to kick up a fuss or give someone an earfull. IT'S HIS JOB as a representative of that company to sort out whatever problems I may have.

maidhc

a) You cannot blame a technician for not knowing there was a latent defect on the gearbox. I presume when they assued you it wouldnt break down they were referring to the idling issue.

b) The cars in the forecourts are for sale, have been valeted, etc, it is a bit unreasonable to expect them to give those out if they are under no legal obligation. It would be nice if you got a clean car with a full tank of petrol, but such is life. You are entitled to complain that you were promised a replacment at the time of purchase, but again unless you can show you purchased the car due to the representation of the salesman about a replacment car in the even of a breakdown you wont get very far.

c) It is a 7 year old car. It shouldnt happen, but it did happen. You are getting a replacment gearbox which you probably wounldnt get from a VW garage. A recon gearbox will be fine. Be happy!

exactiv

(a) I wasn't blaming the technician for anything. He had a bad attitude and I wasn't willing to accept that. That was all.

(b) I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a car clean enough to use. I told the guy that I just wanted something to get me from A to B, my exact words were "yaris or hiace, I don't care, I just need to get to work". I would'nt have cared if it was a 1991 Corolla, as long as it was clean. Obviously the cars are for sale and they don't want to give me one of them, but at the end of the day that's their problem. If they don't have a decent car to give me then hire one or give me one from the forecourt.

(c) I'm quite happy to be having the car fixed. But nowhere in my warranty does it say reconditioned anything. If it's under warranty I just presumed that it means new parts.

At this stage I'm sick of fighting with them. I just want my car back and be shut of this.

New development, was just speaking to the Tralee garage. The reconditioned gearbox will have a 1 year guarantee with it. So I'm covered for gearbox problems for another year. Not sure if I'll accept that yet though.

BeardyGit

I think it's probably worth mentioning at this point that my father owns a 2001 1.4 Comfortline. He bought it when it was 12 months old from a main dealer here in Dublin with 9k on the clock and a 12 months bumper to bumper warranty - From the dealership, not from VW who only offered 12 months from factory at the time.

His warranty expired and 6 months later the timing belt went on the car with only 18k on the clocks (he doesn't drive it much). He rang the local VW dealership (not the one he bought it from) and had them recover the car. They contacted the original dealer who supplied my father with a replacement golf and get this - They arranged for the local dealer to install an entire new engine, not a recon, not a repair with support from VW.

There's a lesson there. Main dealer networks have the resources and contacts to really help when they want to. If he'd bought it from a Toyota dealership, with the best intentions in the world the Toyota dealer would not have the same access to resources and support to deliver as much as a VW dealer could. Yes, there would have been a legal path to take if there was any objection as nobody expects a timing belt to fail at only 18k. In this instance, the main dealer was in a position to draw down support from his distributor and the manufacturer to minimise the inconvenience for my father.

I can understand your frustration but you have to be realistic here. It's nothing to do with being 'Irish' about it. It's about understanding the position both you and the Toyota dealer find themselves in at this time. From what you've described they've been quite helpful - At least in so far as they can be while operating a business. The replacement vehicle wasn't up to your expectations - But it's not like they can just hand out their second-hand stock to anyone who needs a loaner. And I can't fault them for it - Replacement cars are inevitably mistreated by the customers who benefit from their availability. I've often waited to leave my car in, under main dealer warranty, to ensure a suitable vehicle would be available on the day. If they had more time, I'd imagine the same courtesy would have been afforded to you.

Also, remember that the people on the service desk are there to help you - But you need to be a little flexible with them. If you were to call AVIS/HERTZ etc and they provided you with a dirty and worn out vehicle, you'd be right to be upset and take up your complaints with them. They would charge you for soiling or interior damage - Something I've never encountered when returning a garage car after a day hauling goods around the country. In fact, the garage car was always FILTHY when I returned it, while mine was steam cleaned and hoovered, even if it wasn't so at the time I'd dropped it in that morning. Give and take is what it's about when you're dealing with people who are trying to help you get the bottom of a string of problems.

If there's anything to be learned from this, it's that main dealers selling their own marque of vehicle can offer above and beyond what any salesman might tell you at time of purchase. And also that people who are trying to help you out (even when it's their paid profession) need some understanding and patience from you in return for their efforts - It sounds like they're doing their best.

Gil

colm_mcm

Exactiv, I think you're not being entirely reasonable here.

Golfs break down all the time! you're just lucky you're still in warranty this time

BeardyGit

exactiv wrote:

(a) I wasn't blaming the technician for anything. He had a bad attitude and I wasn't willing to accept that. That was all.

(b) I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a car clean enough to use. I told the guy that I just wanted something to get me from A to B, my exact words were "yaris or hiace, I don't care, I just need to get to work". I would'nt have cared if it was a 1991 Corolla, as long as it was clean. Obviously the cars are for sale and they don't want to give me one of them, but at the end of the day that's their problem. If they don't have a decent car to give me then hire one or give me one from the forecourt.

(c) I'm quite happy to be having the car fixed. But nowhere in my warranty does it say reconditioned anything. If it's under warranty I just presumed that it means new parts.

At this stage I'm sick of fighting with them. I just want my car back and be shut of this.

New development, was just speaking to the Tralee garage. The reconditioned gearbox will have a 1 year guarantee with it. So I'm covered for gearbox problems for another year. Not sure if I'll accept that yet though.

Get a grip on reality will you? He had a bad attitude!? You have a bad attitude as far as I'm concerned. You sound like you're expecting blood from a stone....

And it's quite obvious you know nothing about the mechanics of reconditioning a gearbox. It will be 'as-new' when reconditioned. They're going to give you a 12 month warranty on it when all you're entitled to by law is 30 days. They're doing all they can and you're being unreasonable and ungrateful for their efforts to do all they can to help.

If you have a problem with anything they're offering - Take it to SIMI. Hopefully they'll put you in your place. I've had reason to take a complaint to SIMI and they made judgement in my favour. Then again, I was reasonable and understood the limitations of my warranty....You obviously don't.

exactiv

I am being perfectly reasonable. I expect to get what I am entitled to. No I don't know anything about the mechanics of reconditioning a gearbox, and that's hardly the point. I have spoken to two other mechanics and they have told me to accept nothing less than a VW reconditioned gearbox or a new one. And that's the line I will be taking with them.

I don't care what way you are concerned or what you percieve my attitude to be. You seem to think the garage are a public service, there to help me and all that. They're not there to help me they are there to make money and not to loose it. You are turning a very factual argument into an emotive one. I don't have to be grateful to them for honouring the warranty that I paid for.

"they'll put you in your place", get off your high horse for gods sake. You'd swear I'd insulted your mother.

And in relation to the limits of my warranty, if you'd read my post you'd see I am well within the limits of my warranty.

JohnCleary

fletch wrote:

You're very lucky the dealer is honouring the warranty....my sister bought a '99 Punto with a years warranty and it has been endless trouble since she got it, none of which was covered by the warranty....everything from gears, clutch, starter motor to head gasket....every week or so it's something new...then again the car is approachin 100k miles.

My rover is on 98k and I drive the beejaysus out of it... I am shocked that it hasnt blown up yet. No signs of head gasket failure, slipping clutch.. nothing!

I think it could have something to do with the fact that I maintain it to a very high standard, however I must do the timing belt in the next 1k miles

colm_mcm

I'd read the warranty booklet before making demands

exactiv

I can't. It's in the car, which in in Tralee. Toyota breakdown centre asked me to leave it in the car.

It turns out my dad knows one of the owners of kellihers so I might get sorted yet.

maidhc

colm_mcm wrote:

I'd read the warranty booklet before making demands

I suspect if it is properly written it wont promise a brand new gearbox.

exactiv

Like I say, that's fine. As long as I can get a VW re-condioned one.

colm_mcm

you get a small booklet as well as a triplicate slip with the vehicles details on it. The booklet tells you exactly what you're entitled to.

exactiv

Left it in the car as well. I keep all the documentation in the car in the manual pouch.

colm_mcm

Any toyota dealer can supply you with another booklet, if you want to arm yourself with information