women's officer - should it be "equality officer"?

Stabshauptmann

Yes, equality officer would be better

Blush_01 wrote:

I think I need to clarify a few things!

I think theres little or nothing left to be said, but we all know I like an arguement.;)

My point was not that you were being a 'big bad mean man', it was that the stereotypes you were using were there before you got to college

That was my point actually, get your own.

and the work done by the women's officer (at the moment) wouldn't have impacted on that.

I said as much before your last post, the atm scope is narrow and stupid

Stereotype problem + WO does not = solution. It's too late in college to spend three years teaching someone something that will most likely occur to them anyway, if they have a brain, with the current state of young people in society.

Are you sure you needed to say that, are you sure you didnt just waste your effort and time by writing something trying to convince me something I already said?
Because I think you did. Theres no need to convince me that what the WO does is irrelevant and silly, I said as much several posts ago, after reading the SU constitution:rolleyes:

But you have to admit, it's incredibly unlikely that, in practical terms, the WO would be involved in said condemnation, when the work it does is only visible with a microscope as it is.

I think it entirely plausible. If a true feminist really wanted to tackle gender inequality then they would have to first convince women that "playing the system" as it were is detrimental to their best interests i the long run.

I don't deny it exists

Good Then dont make posts trying to claim it doesnt

:rolleyes: And I don't?

Men and women often have different tastes and interests, and I think most ppl accept this as being the current situation.

Then I must live under a rock, because *statistically* the population of UCD is more female than male. No, seriously, tell me what these issues are, buceuse I can't see them myself.

In college, secondary school and primary school, men on average are less likly to ask questions of teachers or participate in class. Women seem to view academic achievment in a positive light, men dont. Most men underplay how much they do education-wise, and thats what the statistics which you seem to be aware of support

I find that funny, considering you were so into having a women's officer.

I liked the idea of an office designed to give women an extra vote on the exec, because of there lack of overall representation on council.
I am OBVIOUSLY working off the premise that lack of women on council/exec=lack of representaion of women by the SU.
Where do you see a contradiction??

What? I haven't got a clue what that means.

Wouldnt be the first time:rolleyes:

*facepalm* What Panda said. It was pretty clear. :rolleyes:

Explain to me how it was clear, two statements from the same poster, both presented the same way, one fact one opinon, neither qualified.:cool:

singingstranger

Apathy, apathy I say!

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

I liked the idea of an office designed to give women an extra vote on the exec, because of there lack of overall representation on council.
I am OBVIOUSLY working off the premise that lack of women on council/exec=lack of representaion of women by the SU.
Where do you see a contradiction??

*goes to count SU Council database* I'm pretty sure it's almost a perfect gender split. Anyway, of the nine voting Exec members (at present, pre-Constitution), four are female. Not exactly a huge gender imbalance.

*after checking* Of the non-officers who are just Class Reps who sit on Council, 35 are female and 42 are male. Not exactly a huge deficit that would require a WO to balance out either, tbh.

panda100

Apathy, apathy I say!

oh no dont get this locked by doing the quote thing-its an intresting discussion but no on is gonna read it if its just dissecting each others points!

Manic Moran

Without reading more than a few pages of the thread, my 2 cents:

1) Equality officer implies all genders, race, creed, etc. I have no problem with such a multi-aspect position.

2) If women's officer is accepted, there should also be a men's officer. (And while I'm at it, how about a Muslim officer, Jewish Officer, FSM officer...)

3) Men should be eligible to run for women's officer, and men should be able to vote for the position. Vice-versa for men's officer. (Universal suffrage, and all that). Should be amusing as numbers of people decide to teach the opposite gender a lesson and try to flood the voting.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that making all those single-interest positions simply reinforces the problem, as opposed to solves them. But what do I know? I've been out of UCD for ten years now...

NTM

The_Minister

Apathy, apathy I say!

According to the Tribune, there is now going to be a referendum on the subject.

Blush_01

Apathy, apathy I say!

Kap: As you've already accused me of superfluity, I'll refrain from further indulging right now, ta. My clarifications were for your benefit, in order to avoid further quoting back and forth, despite how you chose to take them. Any further misunderstanding is of your own making. And a simple clarification on my one question would have been well within reason, don't you think? There was no need to be ignorant about it. As for the contradiction, look at your previous attitude (i.e. what you wanted before you realised how stupid the WO role currently is), your current one, compare and contrast the details and come back to this then. A contradiction should bite you on the nose.

MM, I think that's pretty much a nutshell filled with all the necessary stuff right there. Merci.

mad lad

Yes, equality officer would be better

The fluffy liberal-equality brigade has decided to go on a crusade against the evil sexist position of UCDSU’s women’s officer in an unconstitutional, constitutional referendum. That’s right, it seem the boys (and it does seem to be boys) behind it, have been too busy patting eachothers backs at conferences down the country to gather signatures in time for the mandatory 2 week notice before the exams start.

Not to worry though, Returning Officer Morgan “I am The Law” Shelly has decided that he can ignore whatever part of the constitution he wishes.

So what the dealio? It’s academic what the dealio is because the whole thing is unconstitutional but, ignoring that, a referendum is being held to replace the current womyns officer with a gender equality officer. If you follow that kind of fluffy liberal equality logic then we should replace the LGBTQ officer with a lesbian/gay/bi/trans/queer/hetero officer, disability rights officer with an all abilities rights officer and the international officer with some kind of “no nations no borders” officer. I heard the argument earlier in the thread that the reason those other changes are not justified is because they are minorities while 53% of ucdians are female. Dip me in sh1t and roll me in breadcrumbs because I thought those groups required their own officer because they are widely discriminated against not because they are minorities. If you use that reasoning then would should have a left hand officer, officer for bald people, an officer for red-heads etc.

The idea that minor changes to the role of a union officer are going to trickle down and somehow help address the issue of sexism and gender inequality on campus is laughable. Rather than a genuine concern, the people behind the referendum are driven by some weird belief that having a womyns officer while not having a mans officer is sexist. There’s no genuine attempt to identify, analyze and remedy the problems in ucd that give rise to the need for a womens officer.

If we look at the sabbat elections, apart from ents, none of the female candidates were elected and neither was Joanne in the presidential race last year. From talking to people through canvassing there is a clear attitude in ucd that men would be better suited to sabbat positions, particularly the position of president. There is an essentialist belief that female candidates and their suitability for a position is based on the characteristics of the sex they belong to. It’s these kind of beliefs that allows a male welfare candidate who doesn’t even know if it’s legal to travel to abroad for an abortion get elected over a more knowledgeable female candidate.

There are various reasons for the culture of sexism that exists both within and outside ucd. The college media is one area which has a role to play. The media focussed in on Órla Ní Threasaighs physical appearance in a manner which they would never apply to male candidates. By portraying women as objects they maintain the sexist culture while damaging female candidates chances of becoming elected.

Any time that someone has taken a stance on the culture of sexism within ucd, like Tobie Marven and Aoife Mulqueen they become vilified as some looney bra-burning leftie feminist. In her resignation letter for the womens officer position tobie, whose Space Invaders Against Sexism campaign was ridiculed for attempting to address the problem stated that “the environment here is such that sexism is justified and legitimized, that progressive campaigns to combat oppression are ignored or prevented.” http://www.ucd.ie/observer/v11i02/n-spaceinvaders.html

In 2003 another former womens officer Aoife Mulqueen was involved with Students and Staff Against Sexism, after activists were forced into action due to the lack of enforcement of UCDs Dignity and Respect policy because Richard Butler was too busy sitting in his office drinking free coke to take the issue seriously, spray-painted sexist posters with the words “still objectifying women”. As Tobie stated, it has been “frustrating when I do work through the proper bureaucratic structure, for example by placing complaints with the societies officer, I continue to get ignored and no action is taken.” http://www.ucdsu.net/newswire.php?story_id=135&search_text=sexism

Sexism is part of the wider pro-hierarchal structure of ucd, which also extends to anyone who defies heteronormativiety. UCD has homophobic graffiti plastered all over the jacks while LGBTQ and Rainbow week posters have been targeted in the past. Former welfare officer Shane Hennelly’s office was targeted with having sexual and homophobic messages while a positive space sticker on his office door had the words “fag fest scribbled on it. http://www.ucd.ie/observer/v11i11/n-graffiti.html

When the LGBTQ society put up posters of two men about to kiss, promoting rainbow week, it received a torrent of complaints form students and staff. A “positive space” sticker campaign which was designed to “create visibility and awareness, and trying to get people to embrace and celebrate different forms of diversity.” was met by an e-mail to the then LGBTQ officer from staff member Mr. T.J. Byrnes who stated "I do not appreciate you putting junk in my college mailbox. It is one thing to be a deviant. It is another to go around attempting to convince people that it is OK.” Another e-mail from a staff member called on the officer to seek “spiritual guidance”.

We also have the current situation where ucds male dominated (except jane obviously), spineless union which refuses to carry out it’s mandate to freely provide information on all options in a crisis pregnancy including abortion both verbally and in Union publications. Education Officer Jane Horgan-Jones printed an A4 sheet containing contact details for crisis pregnancy agencies and put it to her office door only to have it, and I have to say this, *allegedly* by a male sabbat officer (if I say who this whole thing will get taken down)

If the people behind the referendum to abolish the position of womens officer have a genuine concern about sexism and gender equality then this is not the way to change it. Actively engaging with women on their conerns and issues, forming campaigns and alliances to tackle the problem and culture that has infiltrated the college media, societies and their ads, and ensuring that the college enforces it’s dignity and respect policy would be a much better start then changing words on pieces of paper.

http://www.ucdsu.net/newswire.php?story_id=293&search_text=sexism former womens officers resignation letter

http://www.ucdsu.net/newswire.php?story_id=1027&search_text=abortion
the Su refuses its mandate to provide non-directive counselling and information on all pregnancy options, including abortion, both verbally and in union publications

Dave!

Apathy, apathy I say!

ehh..................................



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.....nice first post....

(I only read the first paragraph, mind)

panda100

Apathy, apathy I say!

2 guesses who mad lad is............
Can we keep the left and right argument out of this.I dont consider myself right adn Im opposed to the idea of womens officer

mad lad

Yes, equality officer would be better

panda100 wrote:

Can we keep the left and right argument out of this.I dont consider myself right adn Im opposed to the idea of womens officer

fair enough the first lines been edited

panda100

Apathy, apathy I say!

mad lad wrote:

If we look at the sabbat elections, apart from ents, none of the female candidates were elected and neither was Joanne in the presidential race last year. It’s these kind of beliefs that allows a male welfare candidate who doesn’t even know if it’s legal to travel to abroad for an abortion get elected over a more knowledgeable female candidate.

There are various reasons for the culture of sexism that exists both within and outside ucd. The college media is one area which has a role to play. The media focussed in on Órla Ní Threasaighs physical appearance in a manner which they would never apply to male candidates. By portraying women as objects they maintain the sexist culture while damaging female candidates chances of becoming elected

Just to clarify a few thing that mad lad got wrong when he was getting lost in his mad rant tangent.

Joanne lost last year because she wasnt a good enough candidate for president.She is a lovely girl and would have made a fantastic welfare office particularly given her intense intrest in mental health.However, her experience on the education side was seriously lacking over James Carolls.I think when the left go about choosing their candidates for president they choose all wrong.Why they didnt put Jane Horagan Jones up for president this year il never know.I know me and Jane have had our ups and down but she would have beena far better,more electable and better candidate for president than enda duffy.

Your refrence to Barry Colfer not being as good a welfare candidate as Michelle isnt true.They both didnt know that you could travel legally across to England for an abortion.Barry however, did know that information on abortion was legal but Michelle though information regarding abortion could only be found oin the internet.Both Barry and michelle were good candidates though and I think with a bit more experience behind her,Michelle would make an excellent welfare officer for next year If she was thinking of running.

As for the media foccussing on Orlas physical apperance,then mad lad you obviously dont listen ,read or watch a lot of mainstream media(and no indymedia isnt mainstream).People who put themselves in the public eye are always going to get something said about their appearnce example Brian Cowen,Willie O'Dea the list goes on...This isnt just isolated to female politicians.

mad lad

Yes, equality officer would be better

With regards to Joanne, if people believed she was lacking in knowledge or genuine ability then fine. I canvassed for her and the common response was that the characteristics for an appropriate president would be those usually assigned with men.

With regards to michelle not knowing about the legality of travelling abroad for an abortion, I don't believe thats accurate but I don't have a copy of the observer here but i"ll check it out.

you obviously dont listen ,read or watch a lot of mainstream media(and no indymedia isnt mainstream).

quite the opposite I'm obsessed:) . Of course there are sexist attitudes in all media including indymedia but that doesn't make it acceptable. You're correct that comments about both seses are always made but the difference is that women are objectified in the sense that they are only relevant in terms of their percieved beauty and as objects of male desire. I'm not sure that happens brian cowen - people tend to focus more on what he's saying.


the problem isn't a left/right KBC/labour candidate divide, it's the acceptance of sexism within ucd and the vilification and ridicule of any attempts to address the issue.

panda100

Apathy, apathy I say!

mad lad wrote:

With regards to michelle not knowing about the legality of travelling abroad for an abortion, I don't believe thats accurate but I don't have a copy of the observer here but i"ll check it out.
.

Yep it is true- She got two of the three question wrong in her observer interview where Bary only got one wrong.After speaking to her about it though she said she was misquoted so I told her to seek a correction from the observer in the next issue but that never materialised.
I dont know maybe she was misquoted but Sorcha seems a pretty fair ediditor and I dont think she would intentially misquote a candidate.However,considering she was womens officer for a year she really really shouldnt have got something like this wrong.I mean Im only a lowly med student who had no experienece in a womens officer position and I knew the Irish legislation on abortion.It something that anyone who had a keen intrest in womens issues should really know.But obviously this sort of knowledge isnt important when lefts are picking a suitable candidat-they just pick someone who will agree with everything they will say and treat there female candidates like one would treat a puppet on a string with the exception perhaps of Kate O'Hanlon who was a good candidate .Who exactly has written the females manifestos consecutively in the last two years on the left...has it been a man........

pretty*monster

Yes, equality officer would be better

panda100 wrote:

But obviously this sort of knowledge isnt important when lefts are picking a suitable candidat-they just pick someone who will agree with everything they will say and treat there female candidates like one would treat a puppet on a string with the exception perhaps of Kate O'Hanlon who was a good candidate

What's this perhaps?

panda100

Apathy, apathy I say!

pretty*monster wrote:

What's this perhaps?

No I mean definatly.Its a pity you lost and I really do actually mean that.

mad lad

Yes, equality officer would be better

lol your first reply calls on me to leave the left right argument out of it then you go on to say

when lefts are picking a suitable candidat-they just pick someone who will agree with everything they will say and treat there female candidates like one would treat a puppet on a string

pot...kettle...black. That statement is totally untrue and I would hope that any sexism within ucd lefties would be actively cahallenged by both sexes.

the aim of my post was to suugest that changes in a referendum will make no attempt to challenge ucds male hegemony - and that rather than concentrating on formulas of words, a real effort should be made to recognise that there is a culture of sexism in ucd (not limited to ucd), look at what perpetuates its, acknowledge that its a problem and suggest real alternatives to addressing the issue.

the discourse on the womens officer should be widened to properly address these issues in my humble lefty opinion.

The_Minister

Apathy, apathy I say!

mad lad wrote:

That’s right, it seem the boys (and it does seem to be boys) behind it, have been too busy patting eachothers backs at conferences down the country to gather signatures in time for the mandatory 2 week notice before the exams start.

They collected the appropriate number of signatures.

mad lad wrote:

Not to worry though, Returning Officer Morgan “I am The Law” Shelly has decided that he can ignore whatever part of the constitution he wishes.

He was being flexable.

mad lad wrote:

The idea that minor changes to the role of a union officer are going to trickle down and somehow help address the issue of sexism and gender inequality on campus is laughable. Rather than a genuine concern, the people behind the referendum are driven by some weird belief that having a womyns officer while not having a mans officer is sexist. There’s no genuine attempt to identify, analyze and remedy the problems in ucd that give rise to the need for a womens officer.

Of course its sexist to have a woman's officer and not a men's. The real reasons for having a woman's officer have gone.

mad lad wrote:

It’s these kind of beliefs that allows a male welfare candidate who doesn’t even know if it’s legal to travel to abroad for an abortion get elected over a more knowledgeable female candidate.

He knew more than she did.

mad lad wrote:

There are various reasons for the culture of sexism that exists both within and outside ucd. The college media is one area which has a role to play. The media focussed in on Órla Ní Threasaighs physical appearance in a manner which they would never apply to male candidates. By portraying women as objects they maintain the sexist culture while damaging female candidates chances of becoming elected.

It was either her looks or her policies and they needed more than a paragraph.

mad lad wrote:

Any time that someone has taken a stance on the culture of sexism within ucd, like Tobie Marven and Aoife Mulqueen they become vilified as some looney bra-burning leftie feminist. In her resignation letter for the womens officer position tobie, whose Space Invaders Against Sexism campaign was ridiculed for attempting to address the problem stated that “the environment here is such that sexism is justified and legitimized, that progressive campaigns to combat oppression are ignored or prevented.”

The bold says it all

mad lad wrote:

In 2003 another former womens officer Aoife Mulqueen was involved with Students and Staff Against Sexism, after activists were forced into action due to the lack of enforcement of UCDs Dignity and Respect policy because Richard Butler was too busy sitting in his office drinking free coke to take the issue seriously, spray-painted sexist posters with the words “still objectifying women”. As Tobie stated, it has been “frustrating when I do work through the proper bureaucratic structure, for example by placing complaints with the societies officer, I continue to get ignored and no action is taken.”

Poor her not being allowed to vandalise society posters.

mad lad wrote:

Sexism is part of the wider pro-hierarchal structure of ucd, which also extends to anyone who defies heteronormativiety. UCD has homophobic graffiti plastered all over the jacks while LGBTQ and Rainbow week posters have been targeted in the past.

If you bother to read the graffeti in the men's jacks, you will notice that most references to gays consist of "Where is the best toilet for ga sex? My *** fresher *** needs *******" (my stars) or "come here at 2 on tuesday for b*** j**** and *** ***". Anti-gay graffeti is in the minority. In fact it is discouraged, wiped out and stigmatised. Who wants a homophobe officer?

mad lad wrote:

When the LGBTQ society put up posters of two men about to kiss, promoting rainbow week, it received a torrent of complaints form students and staff. A “positive space” sticker campaign which was designed to “create visibility and awareness, and trying to get people to embrace and celebrate different forms of diversity.” was met by an e-mail to the then LGBTQ officer from staff member Mr. T.J. Byrnes who stated "I do not appreciate you putting junk in my college mailbox. It is one thing to be a deviant. It is another to go around attempting to convince people that it is OK.” Another e-mail from a staff member called on the officer to seek “spiritual guidance”.

They are entitled to their beliefs.

mad lad wrote:

We also have the current situation where ucds male dominated (except jane obviously), spineless union which refuses to carry out it’s mandate to freely provide information on all options in a crisis pregnancy including abortion both verbally and in Union publications. Education Officer Jane Horgan-Jones printed an A4 sheet containing contact details for crisis pregnancy agencies and put it to her office door only to have it, and I have to say this, *allegedly* by a male sabbat officer (if I say who this whole thing will get taken down)

It was illegal of her to do that. Surely you are not giving out about someone who is merely protecting the union?





The answers I have given have been short and ****, because you sir, are a shill. I refuse to believe that a "no" campaign was recently set up, involving two boardsies and suddenly you appear. If pretty*monster and happycrackhead wish to say something they may say it themselves. It is clear this is merely part of the "no" campaign which you were setting up yesterday.

boneless

Yes, equality officer would be better

Any one who believes that women have achieved full equality in Irish society today is, in my humble opinion, living in cloud cuckoo land. There is still a need I believe, to have a womans officer in every union, not just the UCDSU.

Women are still behind in relative terms of pay and conditions, not to mention the social concerns such as the control of their own sexuality etc. It is in education, especially third level, that most women are confronted with issues which affect them, therefore a womens officer is essential.

As to the proposed constitutional changes in the UCDSU, I can only hope that people vote against them. I would also like to know why they were not circulated to the student body in printed form. Have the proposers something to hide?

pretty*monster

Yes, equality officer would be better

Firespinner wrote:

He was being flexable.

Though I would rather put my fist through a window than dabate the in's and outs of the proposed new constitution on my designated lazy saturday, I do feel obliged to point out that it is not (or at least it damn well should not be) at Margan Shelly's discression to be 'flexible' about which parts of the constitution he wants to obey.

pretty*monster

Yes, equality officer would be better

boneless wrote:

Have the proposers something to hide?

Oh, y'know spelling errors, articles that refer to things that don't exist, poor grammar, bits that don't make sense... and that's before one get's into the guts of the changes,

boneless

Yes, equality officer would be better

It sounds like a half-assed attempt at a coup to me! I will enjoy the legal wranglings after the fact which will ensure no work on behalf of the student body gets done... I'd laugh except it's so fukcin' serious.

mad lad

Yes, equality officer would be better

jaysis, i don't know whether to laugh or cry.I'm new to these boards so I hope I'm not simply replying to a troll

They collected the appropriate number of signatures.
He was being flexable.

flexible? it doesn't matter how people vote because two weeks notice has to be given. it's in the constituition - its not really flexable

Of course its sexist to have a woman's officer and not a men's. The real reasons for having a woman's officer have gone.

thats utter nonsense, the reasons for having a womens officer is very much still there. Yet again theres this fluffy equality logic that if theres a womens officer that there has to be a mans officer

He knew more than she did.

well thats your point of view. I hold the opposite

It was either her looks or her policies and they needed more than a paragraph.

i didn't agree with her policies but at least you acknowledge that the paper focussed on her looks which was one of the original points i tried to make

i hate doing this quote thing.
with regard to the space invaders against sexism campaign being looney - the campaing made perfect sense. Complaints were made through bureaucratic channels but fell on deaf ears. stickers containing the classic space invaders graphic were placed over posters that were objectifying women. The idea was that the sticker itself was invading public space to highlight sexism...maybe this is a bit complex for yourself. It was a genuine attempt to address a problem by doing something different.

with regards to painting over posters. again offical bureaucratic methods proved pointless so activists engaged in a bit of direct action which highlighted the issue and (temporrarily) forced the college to follow the dignity and respect policy

The graffiiti in the jacks is an interesting issue. Anyone who defies heteronormativity is usually presented as deviant. Its this kind of belief that has traditionally forced homosexuals to operate in this covert fashion. There is a large number of " all gay people should die of aids" style graffitti and to deny its existence is

homophobes etc are entitled to their beliefs? i could get into a long philosophical argument on that one but i'll keep it short. Any set of beliefs which promotes or seeks to legitimize discrimination against any group should be both condemned and challenged. The creation of an anti- LGBTQ atmosphere by defacing rainbow posters etc should also be condemned and challenged.

It was illegal of her to do that. Surely you are not giving out about someone who is merely protecting the union?

the law is obsolete and unenforced. Activists have handed out the information outside the dail in front of (and to) gardai.

UCDSU has a mandate to provide this information. All democrtic insitituitions should carry through their mandates.

About the No campaign, i wasn't in dublin yesterday. I came across this thread because i was googling for info on "

HETEROSEXUALITY AFTER QUEER THEORY
Two Day-Long Seminars @ University College Dublin, in June Women's
Studies (WERRC), Hanna Sheehy-Skeffington Building,
University College Dublin, Belfield, Dublin 4, Ireland"

The issue of a womens officer is secondary to me unless the culture within ucd is address from the bottom up

An Bradán Feasa

Apathy, apathy I say!

Firespinner wrote:

He was being flexable.

The constitution does not cater for flexibility.

The_Minister

Apathy, apathy I say!

mad lad wrote:

jaysis, i don't know whether to laugh or cry.I'm new to these boards so I hope I'm not simply replying to a troll

I am not a troll, merely someone who smelt a rat(shill)

mad lad wrote:

flexible? it doesn't matter how people vote because two weeks notice has to be given. it's in the constituition - its not really flexable

Constitutions can be "interpreted", see the Supreme Court.

mad lad wrote:

thats utter nonsense, the reasons for having a womens officer is very much still there. Yet again theres this fluffy equality logic that if theres a womens officer that there has to be a mans officer

Men have issues too: suicide, testicular cancer. As far as I know the woman's officer has not had to deal with discrimination recently.

mad lad wrote:

well thats your point of view. I hold the opposite

Its not a point of view she wrongly answered more questions.

mad lad wrote:

i didn't agree with her policies but at least you acknowledge that the paper focussed on her looks which was one of the original points i tried to make

She was never going to win due to the popularity and greatness of Dan, and the leftness of Duffy. She was an also ran not because of her gender but because one candidate was vastly superior and the other had a dedicated vote.

mad lad wrote:

with regard to the space invaders against sexism campaign being looney - the campaing made perfect sense. Complaints were made through bureaucratic channels but fell on deaf ears. stickers containing the classic space invaders graphic were placed over posters that were objectifying women. The idea was that the sticker itself was invading public space to highlight sexism...maybe this is a bit complex for yourself. It was a genuine attempt to address a problem by doing something different.

Basically official decisions were made against her, with the posters found not to transgress any policy, so she decided to take matters into her own hands.

mad lad wrote:

The graffiiti in the jacks is an interesting issue. Anyone who defies heteronormativity is usually presented as deviant. Its this kind of belief that has traditionally forced homosexuals to operate in this covert fashion. There is a large number of " all gay people should die of aids" style graffitti and to deny its existence is

I have never seen such graffeti in UCD. Ever. There is plenty of "go suck your own c***" and the occasional "booo f******" but most graffeti merely attacks Pat Patterson.

mad lad wrote:

homophobes etc are entitled to their beliefs? i could get into a long philosophical argument on that one but i'll keep it short. Any set of beliefs which promotes or seeks to legitimize discrimination against any group should be both condemned and challenged. The creation of an anti- LGBTQ atmosphere by defacing rainbow posters etc should also be condemned and challenged.

I was being sarcastic. However people are entitled to feel that way as long as they don't act on it.

mad lad wrote:

About the No campaign, i wasn't in dublin yesterday. I came across this thread because i was googling for info on "

HETEROSEXUALITY AFTER QUEER THEORY
Two Day-Long Seminars @ University College Dublin, in June Women's
Studies (WERRC), Hanna Sheehy-Skeffington Building,
University College Dublin, Belfield, Dublin 4, Ireland"

The issue of a womens officer is secondary to me unless the culture within ucd is address from the bottom up

I apologise if I was wrong, but the timing seemed so......convienient. I may also owe an apology to HappyCrack Head as well:o

The_Minister

Apathy, apathy I say!

pretty*monster wrote:

Oh, y'know spelling errors, articles that refer to things that don't exist, poor grammar, bits that don't make sense... and that's before one get's into the guts of the changes,

Could you post a link to the proposed changes?

mad lad

Yes, equality officer would be better

Firespinner wrote:

Constitutions can be "interpreted", see the Supreme Court.

it says two weeks i'm not sure how else that can be interpreted unless you're using some other planets week as a measurement of time

re: orla
i didn't vote for her but i think it would be unlikely that a female would be elected over a male candidate

Basically official decisions were made against her, with the posters found not to transgress any policy, so she decided to take matters into her own hands.

compaints were made to richard butler but following them up ment that he would have to get up off his ass and do some work. After activists took the matter into their owns hands there was a more stringent application of the dignity and respect policy (for awile). their actions were entirely justified. complaints were never followed up on

about grafitti --> check out the end cubicles in the LGs

i haven't been involved with the campaign because i'm not really in ucd much these days but i might end up helping out. Theres 3 referenda. info is below in pdf

http://www.ucdsu.net/attachments/apr2006/referenda_questions.pdf
http://www.ucdsu.net/attachments/apr2006/proposed_new_constitution.pdf

panda100

Apathy, apathy I say!

Dont bother firespineer your only wasting your time replying to him.

mad lad

Yes, equality officer would be better

thats right sexism, the objectification of women and discrimination on sexual orientation in ucds all in my head, its not a problem and should no longer be discussed. Shane hennely was never targeted, theres no anti-LGBTQ grafitti and women have just as equal chance as male candidates.

vote yes or not at all, we can forget this ever happened and go back to normality.

i apologise for challenging your concensus

Any time that someone has taken a stance on the culture of sexism within ucd, like Tobie Marven and Aoife Mulqueen they become vilified

Red Alert

Apathy, apathy I say!

i think there should be an Eq Officer and leave it at that. i particularly do not like paying the women's officer's wages.

pretty*monster

Yes, equality officer would be better

Firespinner wrote:

Could you post a link to the proposed changes?

Here's the proposed new constitution http://www.ucdsu.net/newswire.php?story_id=1067&condense_comments=false#comment7390


There used to be a link to the old constitution on ucdsu.net, but I haven't been able to find it since they upgraded the site...