women's officer - should it be "equality officer"?

pretty*monster

Yes, equality officer would be better

singingstranger wrote:

I know I'm setting myself up for a basic meltdown here but then why do you object to terming it the "equality movement"?

I have many, many objections, personal, political, and random...

Firstly, equality is a vague umbrella term.
I'm interested and active (not as active as I should be... but vocal at any rate) on the women's movement. Not the equality movement, the equality movement would encompass class, race, sexuality, disability and many other inequalities. There aren't enough hours in the day for one person to legitimately claim to be active (or even vocal) on the 'equality' movement as a whole. I've made my choice about the issues I want to make time to fight on, it's my right to make that choice.


Second, 'Why can't all decent men and women call themselves feminists, out of respect for those who fought for this' (Ani Difranco)

Historically the women's movement was called that (or women's liberation... terms explicitly defining it as a female action at any rate).
I, and every western woman owes an immense debt of gratitude to the women who gave their lives so that we could have one.
I consider it a slap in the face to the women before me to distance myself from their work by not identifying myself as feminist and a supporter of the women's movement.

Thirdly, I'm highly suspicious of the motives of those who don't want to call feminism feminism or call the women's movement the women's movement.
We don't call for a sexualities officer to replace the lgbro, we don't call for a student's of all nationalities' officer to replace the international student's officer, we don't call for an able-bodied and disability rights officer.
Why is the women's officer different?

I see it as a way to down play and deny the fact that when it comes to inequality between the sexes it is still women who are the net losers.
And then one must ask, why are these issues being down played and denied?

Finally , equality is a tricky word.
Men and women are not equal and never will be. To take the obvious example men can't bear children.
word's like equality get us what we have now (more or less), equal opportunities.
But equal opportunities for what?
Fewer women TDs, fewer women in highly paying jobs.
How can that be when we have 'equal opportunities'
The answer is that we have equal opportunities for male defines roles in male defines (not always male dominated but unavoidable male defined). What, for example, a doctor does, how s/he works, how s/he qualifies, how s/he becomes eligible for promotion, was defines over decades (centuries even) when doctors were exclusively male...

I've quoted her before but Radcliffe Richards puts it better than I do...

If a group is kept out of something for long enough, it is overwhelmingly likely that activities of that sort will develop in a way unsuited to the excluded group. We know for certain women have been kept out of many kinds of work, and this means that the work is quite likely to be unsuited to them. The most obvious example of this is the incompatibility of most work with the bearing and raising of children; I am firmly convinced that if women had been fully invoolved in the running of society from the start they would have found a way of arranging work and children to fit each other. - J. Radcliffe Richards


The solutions to problems of this nature are not to be found in the word equality.

pretty*monster

Yes, equality officer would be better

Grimes wrote:

Im sorry Kate but your quote comes from Courtney Love a suspected murderer and money whorer of what should belong to two other people.

I saw this little riot grrl in Spin who was holding a little magazine called Princess. She's 15, but everything in her little riot grrl world - like Hello Kitty products - is telling her to act like she's seven. That's not feminism, it's cultural anorexia."

Perhaps Courtney's idea of femininity (is that a word, i wouldnt know me man, brain no work good) is not what it means to be female but what a minority of women would like "feminine" to be when its actually prada bags,hello kitty products and princess magazines are the def of feminine just like porn,football and cars are masculine. It works the same way for men, we are all the same willy or punnani . We are all human

I could literally write a thesis (and would have to, because the argument is complicated and I've forgotten some of it and would need to re-read a lot of books... these issues are complicated) on how insulting and it is to me personally and to the woman-kind’s potential in general it is to reduce femininity to " prada bags, hello kitty products and princess magazines" (I have no interest in those things, I guess I’m not really a woman so) and how intellectually lazy it is to leave it as, 'that's just what most chicks like, if you're interests and desires are deviant from our culturally defined norm of 'most chicks' it's your own problem' but I'm not up to it at the minute, if you care enough ask me next time you catch me outside the arts block smoking...


And as for your opinion of Courtney Love, 'suspected murderer' you say is if the police file on Cobain were still open, again I could write a long-ass post in her defence, but that would be off topic, wouldn't it. Suffice to say, my sig endorses that one thing she said, not her entire life.

passive

Yes, equality officer would be better

Kate for women's officer! (It's late, i'm tired. So that's my contribution for now. Going on the thread title and a second's thought I was inclined to go for the equality one.. But further reading and some of the above points made my final click land upon women's officer. So there ya go...)

Stabshauptmann

Yes, equality officer would be better

Damn straight, Kate - you'd make a fantastic womens officer!

Dave!

Apathy, apathy I say!

pretty*monster wrote:

woman-kind

lol, that reminds me of a quote by George Carlin...


"Maybe some of this patriarchal bullsh*t oughta go away. I think spokesman ought to be spokesperson. I think chairman ought to be chairperson. I think mankind ought to be humankind. But, they take it too far. They take themselves too seriously. They exagerate. They want me to call that thing in the street a personhole cover. I think that's taking it a little too far. What would you call a 'lady's man'? A 'person's person'? That would make a 'he-man', an 'it person'. Little kids would be afraid of the 'boogey-person'. They'd look up in the sky and see 'the person in the moon'. Guys would say, 'Come back here and fight like a person.' And we would all sing 'For it's a jolly good person'. That's the kind of thing you would hear on Late Night with David Letterperson!"

hehe, legend

Chinafoot

DaveMcG, I suggest you quit your poor attempts at trolling.

Dave!

Apathy, apathy I say!

Ouch, right in the trolling skills!

Okay I think I've made my point about women's officer, I hadn't intended on getting into a debate on it, but there ye go. Assuming nobody addresses my posts again, I'm gonna stop posting in this thread! Carry on a chairde!

ms. doctor who

Yes, equality officer would be better

I think the issues at hand here have been over complicated. The womens officer is needed to improve the participation of women in the union. The position should encourage women to speak out and get envolved with union issues. The reason this voice is needed is because as evidence clearly shows female participation in the union is lower than male participation. Its about fair representation, considering there are more females than males in UCD it seems ridiculous that time and time again the electorate favour male candidates. I think health issues should be left out of it altogether, health is dealt with by the welfare officer and she/he is paid in a full time capacity to deal with these issues, for men and women. The womens officer is a part-time unpaid position, it takes no funding away from any other full-time paid sabbat. If we can increase participation of women at a student union level hopefully these women will continue to be involved in unions and active politics outside of UCD creating a better poltical enviroment for women throughout Ireland. This would be a much healthier climate for all and I dont think anyone can deny that.

Dave!

Apathy, apathy I say!

ms. doctor who wrote:

Its about fair representation, considering there are more females than males in UCD it seems ridiculous that time and time again the electorate favour male candidates.

Excusé moi? How is that ridiculous? It's how democracy works!!! I've said it before, females can represent males and vice versa, just fine. If the electorate vote male candidates in instead of female, then that's the decision that the majority of the college want, and so it's perfectly democratic!

And you mentioned that there's more women in UCD than men, yet men are getting the positions. You know what that says to me? Women are voting for men also!!! Most females I know voted for Dan Hayden for President in the last election, should they have gone for that girl who's name escapes me?

(I can't help posting here, I'm a sick pup )

Blush_01

Apathy, apathy I say!

I have a Hello Kitty watch. It's cute and pink. Does that make me a bad person?

Her name is Orla Ní Threasaigh, Dave.

panda100

Apathy, apathy I say!

I think women on campus really need a women they can relate to and I dont think this sort of women will hail form the political uniony type people who run for womens officer year in year out,like tobie or aoife mulqueen.

Now before I start this it isnt being personal it is my opinion as a women and what would make me want to get involved in politics in UCD.

Somone like pythia lets say would make me really want to get involved in the union.She's a strong,sassy women who looks like a bit of fun and isnt bogged down in all this feminist crap.However the last three womens officers have all been of the left persuasion a bit like pretty monster.I find as a women I cant relate to these beacuse they are so strong in their feminist views and this just makes me want to run and get as far away poss as the union and politics in general.This isnt slagging anyone Im just saying that this is why I think a gender equality officer would be better.It would mean not just people from the left runnning and involved with the position and would make the union more approachable and accessible to mainstream women.

If this comes across as being rude or insulting to anyone I am really sorry and please pm me about it beacause it isnt my intention it really is just my opinion:(

Dave!

Apathy, apathy I say!

panda's makin fun of us!!! get 'er!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

The_Minister

Apathy, apathy I say!

Remind me, did this pass or fail?

Riamfada

Apathy, apathy I say!

Lockage oh for the Love of God Please Lock this thread! :mad:


I think its still womans officer btw

dajaffa

Ewww dagging up threads this old....

The new constitution wasn't up 4 voting cause not enough notice was given... We'll see one this year probably.

The_Minister

Apathy, apathy I say!

dajaffa wrote:

Ewww dagging up threads this old....

The new constitution wasn't up 4 voting cause not enough notice was given... We'll see one this year probably.

Thanks, I couldn't remember if I had voted on it or not, or what had happened. Now, let this thread die.

Het-Field

Apathy, apathy I say!

Maggie Thatcher. The epitomy of woman. all women should look to her for inspiration. Strong/Forceful and resiliant. If she can do what she did, it makes it clear that women are not as disadvantaged as they look

Sangre

panda100 wrote:

.I find as a women I cant relate to these beacuse they are so strong in their feminist views and this just makes me want to run and get as far away poss as the union and politics in general.This isnt slagging anyone Im just saying that this is why I think a gender equality officer would be better.It would mean not just people from the left runnning and involved with the position and would make the union more approachable and accessible to mainstream women.

It also makes the men run a mile. We are hardly going to create an equal society without the cooperation of the dominant sex.

pretty*monster

Yes, equality officer would be better

Sangre wrote:

It also makes the men run a mile.

I have not found this to be the case

[/refuses to get drawn into more rows about feminism]

Dave!

Apathy, apathy I say!

Het-Field wrote:

Maggie Thatcher. The epitomy of woman. all women should look to her for inspiration. Strong/Forceful and resiliant.

AND WHAT A BODY...!!! ... I guess it's just me who thinks that then...

Chinafoot

pretty*monster wrote:

[/refuses to get drawn into more rows about feminism]

Thank heavens for that.

I'd say Germaine Greer was shitting herself there for a second.

Red Alert

Apathy, apathy I say!

is geramane greer not always pissed off about somethign?

Chinafoot

Indeed she is. She is Uber-Feminist...here to save the day and blame men for everything..

We wouldn't want her being usurped by some young whipper snapper who knows it all after 2 years of college now would we?

Dave!

Apathy, apathy I say!

Germaine Greer is actually decent looking... considering she's like 112!

boneless

Yes, equality officer would be better

For the love of all humanity, lock this thread now!!!

arbeitsscheuer

Yes, equality officer would be better

Firstly; Are we dragging this up again?!?!:mad: :eek:

Secondly; Germaine Greer has actually mellowed a helluva lot in recent years. Also, given that I know both herself and pretty*monster, I can tell ya that the UCD student is by far the more extreme feminist...

Het-Field

Apathy, apathy I say!

SebtheBum wrote:

Firstly; Are we dragging this up again?!?!:mad: :eek:

Secondly; Germaine Greer has actually mellowed a helluva lot in recent years. Also, given that I know both herself and pretty*monster, I can tell ya that the UCD student is by far the more extreme feminist...

Extreme feminism is totally stupid. Im all for womens rights but Greer is a total nutjob, in fact shes on a par with the likes of Aine Ni Chonaill. Did you see Greer on Miriam OCallaghan's show last week. He (Daniel O Donnell) was talking about his mammy, and he was referring to her in a very traditional vein, ie stay at home etc. And she totally disrespected him. Womens rights are great, but Greer is no spokesperson for women. Saying that i like Pretty Monster personally, so i wouldnt bracket her with Greer,PM is not that big a nut

darth insidiari

Yes, equality officer would be better

anonymous_joe wrote:

In fairness, UCD seems fairly egalitarian as it is.

The School of English an Drama lists 37 members of staff (both academic and administrative).
16 are men, 21 are women. Looks pretty good.
Until you notice that all 5 administrative staff are women and that out of 10 professors only 3 are women.
Also, 3 women are also only "fellows" (modular, postdoctoral, etc...) rather than lecturers.
And I would consider this to be a particularly forward-thinking department.

Philosophy has 17 staff members.
7 are women, including 2 out of 2 admin staff members.
One woman is a modular fellow.
There are 4 female lecturers compared to 10 male.

We need a women's officer until this is not typical.

Red Alert

Apathy, apathy I say!

And should i as a male student be paying her wages yes or no?

The_Minister

Apathy, apathy I say!

Red Alert wrote:

And should i as a male student be paying her wages yes or no?

It's not paid.

Please, let this die. I just didn't want to start a new thread, this discussion is moot and pointless until Pretty*Monster admits she's wrong, so lets all stop posting and give her some space......