Acquiring a Rifle from the U.S

Isom Ison|\/

Hi All

I need a bit of Advice.
I want to bring an air rifle in from the U.S.I intend to contact the company selling it and get serial no and other info and then i will get a license for it here in ireland.
For anyone whos interested this rifle is a 65 lb/ft, pcp, single shot, "Airforce airguns, Condor" air rifle.
The rifle and accessories will prob run to bout 900$,and shipping maybe 100-150$,maybe.
I have a contact in a state that does not require a permit to buy an air rifle.
So what i hope to do is get this person to buy the rifle and accessories,in their name.It will have to be shipped to them from another state.When they get it they will remove any evidence from the package,that could tell where it came from and somehow make it look like it is second hand.This may sound stupid but please bear with me.Then they will post it to me,the same way they would post a Birthday or xmas gift.I will have the license for it here in ireland.So it will be legal for me to recieve it.
The catch is that i would rather not be caught for a customs tax charge which could run to 150Eu or more.
I think what will happen is that when it gets into Irish customs it will prob be stopped and i will have to show my license for them to release it.
But what im wondering is,will they treat it as just a gift and not Tax it?......Will the fact that it is Second hand make a difference to their decision?........ I've heard that it can,in some situations.I've also heard that i could fool them on their percieved value of it,and they would only tax it based on it being worth 100Eu........How do i do this?......I know that this stunt could land me up s**t creek if any damage was done to it in transit.
This is the only gun i want to buy.....I was quoted 1500Eu for the deal by a "stealer" here in Ireland.I reckon i'll save 500eu by getting it in myself.
So,i need to figure all this stuff out and be 100% sure of what im doing,before i go any further on this.
I know theres some one reading this that prob knows all the answers to my Q's.
So if you have the time,be a pal and Help me out with this.
Sorry to be so longwinded.
Thanks.

Traumadoc

I have been trying to get a firearm shipped from Australia for the last four months.
Im sorry that I did not sell the rifle and buy a new one here.

Most courier companies will now not ship firearms- specialised ones do but you have to pay more.

Cost for shipping taxes so far has been about 300 euro and its not here yet!

I think shipping from the US will be even more problematic as new laws have been introduced.

I would strongly recommend that you do not try shipping from the US.

Vegeta

sounds like gun smuggling to me. Also a 65 ft/lb air rifle, sounds intense do the pellets go super sonic? Cos i know most top end pcp air rifles are designed not to break the sound barrier as the pellet stability is crap when coming back down through the sound barrier

why not just buy a 30ft/lb one in Ireland for about the same money. Post a link to where i can read specs on your rifle

also to license a gun the guards will need to know where you bought it and will need a dealers details, also try a dealer they might get it shipped in to ireland for you

Isom Ison|\/

Sorry to hear about your Troubles Traumadoc,and thanks for the advice.
I wont be doing anything until i've sussed evrything out.
Vegeta, this Rifle is claimed to be the most powerful of its caliber currently in production.According to what i've read so far,it is one hell of a seriously powerful Air rifle.
See for yourself,
http://www.airforceairguns.com
http://www.talonownersgroup.com
http://www.reviewcentre.com/review123749.html
Any more opinions would be much appreciated.

Clare gunner

Ok first off,it is proably dumb to post the exact plan here about defrauding Irish customs of their pound of flesh on an open forum.
Secondly as an air weapon isnt considerd a firearm in the US,[along with Blak powder weapons].Alot of the export rules and interstate transfer regs fall away.Depending in what state and area your friend is buying the air rifle for you,they may have some local law about registeration of air weapons.Otherwise your friend just buys it and walks out of the store.
Shipping it is going to be intresting.It can be sent by courier company,but there is only one ASFIK that will handle it and it costs a mint to do so.US mail will do it too,but again it is HUGE paperwork and time.If it is stopped it will be buy HM customs&excise or German customs as most of the Irish republic's US mail comes thru those two countries before being distributed here.They will then pass on the info to Irish authorthies who will grab the package and contact you about your firearm.That is if it is found in a random check of over 1.5 million packages that move a day thru the mail system.!!! Again this isnt considerd a "real" firearm in the US,Germany or the UK.But if that 65ft/lbsfigure is correct that then puts it in Germany and/or the UK wellinto a liscenseable airweapon category.
INMHO it would be better for you to get your friend to ship this to a dealer in the UK or the continent,whom you have pre arranged this transaction with.They then contact you when the rifle arrives,you then go over with a EU firearms passport[issued for free by the Gardai]to collect your firearm.
The accessories
those can be shipped to you .Nothing to say that you cant leave them in their original boxes,[just so long as there are no price tags hanging off them]As they are gifts.Your friend will be declaring the value in the US end before he sends it,so if he puts $80 gift,that what it's value is.
If they are courier sent and detected the courier company will pay[within reason]the customs amount due,and then COD you .
All in all it is a dooable project,but INMO I would try and see if you could piuck up this rifle within the EU /Euro zone or have it done like a dealer/dealer transfer.It is easier,maybe abit more expensive,but a lot less hassle.

jeffshc1

It will have to be shipped to them from another state. When they get it they will remove any evidence from the package, that could tell where it came from and somehow make it look like it is second hand.

While I’m 100% pro-gun this only helps all anti-gun people scream louder for more gun laws.

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

Ok first off,it is proably dumb to post the exact plan here about defrauding Irish customs of their pound of flesh on an open forum.

Not to mention against the boards charter. I'm not overwhelmed with good feelings about where this thread is headed lads...

Rovi

Sparks wrote:

Not to mention against the boards charter. I'm not overwhelmed with good feelings about where this thread is headed lads...

I was wondering how long it would last before a Mod stepped in

Seriously folks, there are legal and approved channels for this sort of thing, please use them!
Chancing your arm that the Excise people won't pick up on your cheap computer or car parts from outside the E.U. is one thing, trying to do the same thing with firearms is a whole other kettle of fish.
We (legitimate gun owners) have a hard enough time justifying our existence without this sort of nonsense going on. :mad:

In my opinion.

.

Well said Rovi.

That sort of carry on is selfish crap that will only lead to more hassle for the rest of us.

If you have any respect for fellow shooters, then I would ask you to import your gun normally.

yank_in_eire

As an American living here, I get stuff shipped from home all the time. I'm not averse to having my folks mark 'gift' on some new fly tying bits or small things now and again to avoid paying exorbitant VAT, but having any sort of gun shipped here is one thing I would definitely go through the proper channels to do.
Living here and seeing how restrictive the firearms legislation is(compared to the US) makes me urge you--don't give the antis or the government another reason to make it harder on people like myself who happen to enjoy shooting as a sport. Do it right or not at all. Perhaps the energy put into scheming up ways to circumvent the law would be better spent doing something that would improve public opinion of shooting sports? Just my opinion.

Isom Ison|\/

Ok,i realise i've p****d off a few people here,so i apologise for that and hope i havent done any lasting damage.
When i put the original post up,i seriously thought i hadnt much of a chance of getting this idea to work .Therefore i dont have any intention of trying to do this,So it was more of a hypothetical situation,that i wanted an opinion on.
Im not involved in shooting so i havent experienced the crap attitudes you Guys have to put up with from anti Gun people.
The last thing i want to do is give those Prats a reason to get uppity.
So,again id like to apologize for my thoughtlessness and i hope i havent done any thing to Jeoporadise your sport in any way.

Sorry!

Victor

Isom Ison|\/ wrote:

Im not involved in shooting

So you don't shoot, but you want to spend a grand on a rifle? Go join a club and learn the basics first. You might not even like shooting. I love shoot 'em up games, even half good (sometimes ) but because of hand shake I'm useless with an air-rifle unless its supported.

Your escaping VAT by calling it a gift is borderline daft. The limit for gifts is a about 40 euro. In any case do you think a reputable firearms shipper will declare it as a gift? DO you think they''ll fudge the insurance value -v- VAT value?

Rovi

Isom Ison|\/ wrote:

So,again id like to apologize for my thoughtlessness and i hope i havent done any thing to Jeoporadise your sport in any way.

Sorry!

Don't beat yourself up over it, I suppose the question WAS asked in innocence.

A bit of a poke around on this forum would have shown you just how sensitive an issue the whole gun ownership thing is in this country, and I'd also hope the recent media frenzy over 'gun crime' didn't escape your notice.

One of the central planks of the legitimate shooter's argument is the fact that the vast majority of gun crime in Ireland is committed with illegally held unlicensed firearms, most of which we are led to believe are smuggled in with drug shipments.

We're also reliably informed that this forum is read by persons who 'subscribe to a different agenda', shall we say, so someone coming on here looking for ways to circumvent the normal procedures for the purchase and importation of a firearm was bound to be met with a degree of negativity :rolleyes:


One final point- your buddy in the States may not need any paperwork to purchase the gun (and so MAY not fall foul of any 'strawman purchase' laws), but any grief you got at this end (and believe me, you WOULD get it) would reflect badly on him too and he wouldn't thank you for getting him onto a Homeland Security sh1tlist.
You would probably also find your ability to enter the United States was compromised too.

As Victor says above, look into joining a club and giving some of this stuff a go. It's great fun, and can be as competitive or as informal as you like, and is a hobby/sport that you can participate in and enjoy pretty much until they nail the lid on your box. There aren't many other sports that can say that.

.

thelurcher

Victor is right - the gift limit is tiny.
I've more or less given up ordering anything from the US - constantly being caught for customs etc.

One final point- your buddy in the States may not need any paperwork to purchase the gun (and so MAY not fall foul of any 'strawman purchase' laws), but any grief you got at this end (and believe me, you WOULD get it) would reflect badly on him too and he wouldn't thank you for getting him onto a Homeland Security sh1tlist.
You would probably also find your ability to enter the United States was compromised too.

If he had the license sorted out this end - I doubt Homeland Security would get involved :eek: Not being allowed into the US for dodging Irish customs duty - that's a bit of a stretch to be honest :rolleyes:

With cheap flights around would you consider hand carrying it back - you could save a few euro and you'd have a chance to try before you buy? You'd still have to sort a license somehow.

Rovi

thelurcher wrote:

If he had the license sorted out this end - I doubt Homeland Security would get involved :eek: Not being allowed into the US for dodging Irish customs duty - that's a bit of a stretch to be honest :rolleyes:

I was thinking more along the lines of trying to circumvent the normal procedures for importing/exporting a firearm.
As you say, Homeland Security are unlikely to be too worried about someone messing about with Irish dutys and taxes, but a black mark against you in the 'international arms trade' (:rolleyes:) would be a different story.

.

KerryShooter

If its quality high powered air rifle your after, there are some specialist dealers in the UK, ok ye might got robbed on the euro to sterling but you dont have to worry about customs duty, or hide behind the sofa until its delivered, just pay your vat in the UK, plus you have the back up & after sales care, you can get a cheap flight over to try it out, and they will issue an invoice so that you can present it to the Gards, If it is over 12ft/lbs you'll need to get a Firearms cert anyway, I had a Theoben rifle when i lived in the UK, fantastic rifle, it had a gas strut instead of a spring & piston, great for hunting as there was no loss of power when cocked for a long time, they also do great PCP's.

Clare gunner

Rovi wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of trying to circumvent the normal procedures for importing/exporting a firearm.
As you say, Homeland Security are unlikely to be too worried about someone messing about with Irish dutys and taxes, but a black mark against you in the 'international arms trade' (:rolleyes:) would be a different story.

Nor are they going to be very upset about anyone exporting a "non gun"item.A air rifle is not considerd a firearm in the US.Hence you can buy one in CA and ship it to Washington DC[from an anti gun state to a totally gun banned Capitol.Go figure that one:rolleyes: ] Your problem starts in Europe,here it becomes a "firearm".Well, maybe they will get narky of course if your name happens to be G Adams,M Mc Guinness or S T Kelly or O Bin Ladin.Or any other name on the watch list.
As I said,it is better to do this via a US dealer/ EU dealer.They are well used to doing and handling this type of transactions.

peckerhead

KerryShooter wrote:

If its quality high powered air rifle your after, there are some specialist dealers in the UK.

Like these?

thelurcher

I know where you're coming from Rovi: but the scenario I'm talking about is if it's not considered a firearm in the US and he has sorted out the Licensing issues this side of the water..........I don't see an issue.

I doubt that even the yanks would be anal enough to consider Isom a 'Lord of War' for exporting a pelletgun that they don't even consider to be a firearm.

I'm giving this forum a break for a while - been too many retarded posts by well established members. Political Correctness gone mad - getting in the way of helping out fellow shooters.

There are much better forums out there for gun topics, rimfirecentral, shotgunworld, thefiringline etc.
This is good for Irish gun related topics but the 'what if someone's looking' gang have this one well and truely knackered :mad:

Rovi

thelurcher wrote:

I know where you're coming from Rovi: but the scenario I'm talking about is if it's not considered a firearm in the US and he has sorted out the Licensing issues this side of the water..........I don't see an issue.

I doubt that even the yanks would be anal enough to consider Isom a 'Lord of War' for exporting a pelletgun that they don't even consider to be a firearm.

Fair enough, and if he has the licencing thing sorted out properly ahead of time, that's grand.
The thing is though, the gun in question IS regarded as a firearm over here, and if he runs into trouble with Customs & Excise over the thing he COULD end up with a 'firearms' flag on his record, which would be a big deal if he ever wants to go to the States.
I'm just pointing out the potential downside if things don't go exactly to plan.

thelurcher wrote:

I'm giving this forum a break for a while - been too many retarded posts by well established members.

Sorry I'm such a disappointment to you, I'll try to do better in future.:(

.

Sparks

thelurcher wrote:

I'm giving this forum a break for a while - been too many retarded posts by well established members. Political Correctness gone mad - getting in the way of helping out fellow shooters.
There are much better forums out there for gun topics, rimfirecentral, shotgunworld, thefiringline etc.
This is good for Irish gun related topics but the 'what if someone's looking' gang have this one well and truely knackered :mad:

To be honest lurcher, while I think there is a tendency to bring up the "other people might be looking at us" argument, this particular case is one where you're actually talking about how to get around the legislation rather than abiding by it, so even for me (who gets in trouble a lot for wanting everything to be out in the sunshine being watched by everyone), it's over the line.