Entering or exiting Cabra gate of Phoenix Park

joolsveer

I took some photos yesterday of cars entering and leaving the Phoenix Park at Cabra gate. There are no helpful signs to show who has right of way. The road markings are not visible. What do you think the etiquette should be?

I cannot upload the photos as I'm getting a message saying the upload failed. Will try again later.

Seth Brundle

You also move forward when it is safe to do so & you give way to traffic on your right.
Always worked for me there.

Idleater

Politeness would dictate that those coming out should be given right of way. This would be mirrored by for example public transport and entering/exiting a building/lift/door where people getting off the bus/train should be allowed to do so before those getting on, and those exiting a building/lift/doorway should be allowed to do so before those entering it do...

However, politeness usually is not the most prevelant aspect of motorists once they are behind the wheel.

In any case, that would be the general guide. As always there are circumstances and times where it does not make sence and common sense should prevail. (Like for example, if those coming out have no where to go and end up blocking the entrance, where n number of cars could be hapily on their way in but are instead blocked by one vehicle in the gateway).

L

kdevitt

As far as I'm aware, the law dictates that those leaving private grounds (e.g The Park) have to give way. I thought there are yield markings on the road as you exit the park anyway?

alias no.9

The rules of the road dictate that the car entering the minor road from the major road should have right of way. The road markings clearly have a line to stop behind for traffic exiting, further supporting this. Politeness may dictate that your do a one by one, but nothing more, it's not the same thing as getting on or off a train or bus.

joolsveer

some of the photos

joolsveer

some more photos

kdevitt

Think that section of road has just been resurfaced, hence no road markings.

The gates at Chapelizod by island bridge are a decent example of how its meant to work - traffic stays insude until clear to exit.

Alun

Yes, I'd say that it should be that way round too. I.e. traffic inside the park waits until it's clear to exit, to avoid traffic entering from queueing and backing up onto the main road.

joolsveer

I feel that the almost invisible road markings should be renewed and appropriate signage be placed on approaches to the gate to inform drivers as to the correct procedure to be used.

alias no.9

The road markings obviously need to be renewed, I haven't been down that way in a while so didn't know about the resurfacing. Once the line is there so it's clear where you're supposed to yield/stop, anything other than that is unnecessary. Anyone who doesn't know that traffic turning into a minor road from a major road has right of way over traffic on the minor road trying to get out onto the major road needs to be forced to get lessons on the rules of the road.

joolsveer

alias no.9 wrote:

The road markings obviously need to be renewed, I haven't been down that way in a while so didn't know about the resurfacing. Once the line is there so it's clear where you're supposed to yield/stop, anything other than that is unnecessary. Anyone who doesn't know that traffic turning into a minor road from a major road has right of way over traffic on the minor road trying to get out onto the major road needs to be forced to get lessons on the rules of the road.

I am down there regularly and I am not aware of any resurfacing. You can see from the photos that the road markings have faded. I don't agree that appropriate signage is not required (apologies if this is not what you are saying).

alias no.9

joolsveer wrote:

I am down there regularly and I am not aware of any resurfacing. You can see from the photos that the road markings have faded. I don't agree that appropriate signage is not required (apologies if this is not what you are saying).

I haven't been down there in a while, the resurfacing comment was in response to

kdevitt wrote:

Think that section of road has just been resurfaced, hence no road markings.

I agree that the road markings need to be renewed. As for additional signage, if people are incapable of stopping behind a yield or stop line, then they shouldn't be driving until they learn the rules of the road. Do you think you need to put a sign up on every stop sign explaining how to use it?

The Doktor

How about...The biggest vehicle has right of way......:D
always seems like a bit of a free for all down there

joolsveer

I am suggesting that Yield or STOP signs as appropriate be placed at this gate. I am not asking for non statutory signs to be placed anywhere. Where did this idea come from?

Victor

joolsveer wrote:

I am suggesting that Yield or STOP signs as appropriate be placed at this gate. I am not asking for non statutory signs to be placed anywhere. Where did this idea come from?

There are stop signs on the gate.

Those on the main road have right of way over those in the "bellmouth". Common sense says that traffic should take turns in using the gate and that nobody should obstruct the gate, i.e. if exiting traffic already occupies the bellmouth, nobody else should try to exit. Note the park bye-laws may apply.

fightin irish

Victor wrote:

There are stop signs on the gate.

The stop signs on the gate are only for use when the gates are closed at night.

Funny thing i had a screaming match with another guy right on that gate about two weeks ago. I was exiting the park with atleast four cars behind me(up me arse as usual @ 7.30AM) But this guy came ''whoring'' up the slight hill and had to jam on. Now i left enough clearance for oncoming cars but this guy floored it through the gate and nearly rammed me.

So now he continues to keep his little paws continuosly on the horn AND flashes his lights at me...now i've got a few cars up me backside so i cant go anywhere now...Anyways, Long story short..he looses it and gets out and im out in his face already(not something i've ever done i must say) Before anyone can say anything a guy behind me grabs the guy and said something quite scary ...that if he didnt back up he and his car would be gettin towed:D

He obviously felt i didn't leave enough room for oncoming etc etc.....I think widen the bloody gateway or pedestrian it for good. One or the other.

Simon201

And the Park exit at the top of Blackhorse Avenue is just as bad. Like I've often got to that junction trying to turn right from Blackhorse Ave and it ends up with 4 cars kinda staring at each other wondering who's to go first. The 'give way to the right' thing should really prevail but it often doesn't cos people who are on the Castleknock road think (and maybe rightly so?) that they always have the right of way.
The junction of Western way and Mountjoy St at the Black Church is another one. The cars coming from the Dorset St side of the lights often seem to take preference, I guess because of the 'give way to the right' rule, but often cars dont give way from Western Way because the junction is slightly staggered and they consider that they have made the turn before the cars from the church side. I dont care which it should be, but why in gods name doesn't someone in Dublin Corporation put some kind of indication so that there is no doubt who is to give way etc.

joolsveer

Why can't the powers that be just put regulatory signs up so that drivers (and horse riders) know what's expected of them? I can't see what the reluctance is. There was a plan last year to make the Cabra and Ashtown gates one way but it seems to have been dropped.

joolsveer

I took some shots at Ashtown today to indicate the traffic flow there. Inside the gate there is a white line with a yield triangle painted on the roadway. There is not however a standard Yield Right of Way sign. I could not see any warning signs on approaches to the junction of the existence of the junction.

kdevitt

joolsveer wrote:

Why can't the powers that be just put regulatory signs up so that drivers (and horse riders) know what's expected of them? I can't see what the reluctance is. There was a plan last year to make the Cabra and Ashtown gates one way but it seems to have been dropped.

The OPW are trying to encourage traffic not to use the park, they purposely make life difficult because of this - closing Whites Gates being another example.

This road was resurfaced - as it used to be a completely different type of surface, ramps were added at the same time.