If Satan had a dog..............

Carb

it would be our dog. He is a Siberian huskie and he is turning into the dog from hell. He could literally be standing two feet away from you and he would completely ignore you when you call him. I've seen a thread here where the dogs owner was complaining about the dog continually pulling on the lead and getting very excited whenever they meet other people/dogs. TBH, if that was the case with ours, we would be overjoyed. Ours, for no reason will turn around and start jumping up on us, will get himself tangled in the lead, will bite us whenever we try to untangle him. To go into the back garden, we always have to change our clothes first as he will keeping jumping up us. If you try to pet him, he bites at us. When I say bite, I don't mean malicious, he's trying to get a reaction, so the sport can start. The bites can hurt though. We probably passed a milestone about two weeks ago, because he was possibly at his worst then, and if I didn't kill him then, I never will:D .

Has anyone any suggestions. Bear in mind this dog has already been away for 3 weeks training when he was six months old. He is now 1 year old. The training did work, but its all fallen apart in the last two months.

At the moment we're considering sending him back for training, but was also considering something like the pro training collar on www.vetmedexpress.ie.
Is something like this any use, or would it be just a waste of money.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Sigma Force

Did you keep up the training when he returned from the training session?
Some trainers are better than others and huskys as far as I'm aware tend to be stubborn so training needs to be an ongoing thing.

Mabey try a different dog trainer, each trainer has their own methods, it's better to train the dog at home I think anyway.

Here's a list dog training ireland and Maureen on the list are both good trainers and use humane methods of training.

http://www.irishanimals.ie/care/behaviour.html

hadook

At a year old your dog is an adolescent & is probably testing the boundaries like most teenagers do. (I don't agree with sending a dog away to be trained as the owner doesn't learn anything from it. )

I'd also strongly recommend contacting a behaviourist/ trainer so that you can correct these problems before they spiral out of control & learn how to reinforce the training that your dog has had. Everything that you learn with the husky can be used to prevent these problems with the st bernard. Every dog owner should be 100% able to control the actions of their dogs, especially large or giant breed owners & it's a hell of a lot easier if you start when they're young.

Hazel
- slobbered on owner of two dane monsters, a hairy lurcher monster & an evil-genius border collie.

mountainyman

Carb wrote:

... To go into the back garden, we always have to change our clothes first as he will keeping jumping up us. If you try to pet him, he bites at us. When I say bite...

Does the dog live in the garden unstimulated, bored and alone?
Why not let him in the house?
When he bites you give him a thump.
Go for a cycle and make him run along behind you.
Take him for a walk and throw him into a river, when he is tired he will be manageable (works for human 'teenagers').

If you choose to buy a big dog breed you MUST be able to control him.
1] Is there someone at home most of the time?
2] Is the dogn well walked daily?
3] Does the dog get much time out of the garden (in the house)?

MM

peasant

hadook wrote:

At a year old your dog is an adolescent & is probably testing the boundaries like most teenagers do. (I don't agree with sending a dog away to be trained as the owner doesn't learn anything from it. )

I'd also strongly recommend contacting a behaviourist/ trainer so that you can correct these problems before they spiral out of control & learn how to reinforce the training that your dog has had. Everything that you learn with the husky can be used to prevent these problems with the st bernard. Every dog owner should be 100% able to control the actions of their dogs, especially large or giant breed owners & it's a hell of a lot easier if you start when they're young.

Hazel
- slobbered on owner of two dane monsters, a hairy lurcher monster & an evil-genius border collie.

second all of the above and would like to add:

Nothern type dogs (Huskies, Malamutes, some Spitzes, etc) are somewhat more independent and less cooperative than your average dog.
Therefore it is all the more important that you and yours get training on how to train and handle your dog.

Do not just hand the dog in to "get fixed" ...won't work. He's clever enough to realize that he has to behave with the trainer yet can play you at will.

Get this sorted urgently, as with your new addition you have a willing apprentice waiting in the wings.

Dogs are incredibley fast learners when it comes to picking up another dogs' bad habits, yet surprisingly *dumb* when asked to copy a good example.

If you don't solve this problem now, chances are you will end up with two totally uncontrolable dogs.

As it is so urgent and as there are two dogs plus a small child, I would really recommend professional help ...possibly someone who does home visits to get the full picture of your situation.

Edited to add:

As for one of those remote control correction thingys ...

Stay well clear. They are useless, pointless and cruel. (outlawed in some European countries) In the hands of 99.9% of all possible users they actually make a dog worse than it ever was before the so called "training aid" was used.

Carb

Thanks for the replies. I know there have been a couple of factors that haven't helped. Up until the end of November, we were living in a mobile home beside my parents and our site. He had a pen that he could lie in watching what was going on, there were other dogs about, he got out a number of times a day to run freely and he got taken for walks. Then my wife had our child, which didn't really impact too badly, as obviously the child slept a fair bit during the day so the dog still got nearly the same attention, but eventually the weather turned too cold to stay in the mobile home with the child, and we had to head to my mother in laws. Personally, I think this has bee a large part of the problem as we are now in sort of an estate, there are stray dogs everywhere, we're along a road, so the dog has to stay in the back garden. He gets out for a long walk in the evening, and we do go out to play with him, but its not the same and I'm sure he is bored.

In fact, I hope its boredom, cause I see its giving 14 degrees this weekend so we might be getting close to moving back to the mobile, and hopefully this will calm things down a bit. It's also why we got a second dog, as we want him to have some company. The biggest problem at the moment is integrating the two dogs as the huskie is just so rough, and he is relentless. I think I'm going to have to run him for a couple of miles this evening to try and tire him sligtly beofoe lettinh the two of them together. Its prboably what drove me to post here today, as yesterday evening he would just not clam down. Not only would he not listen, he completely blanked us.

In terms of letting him into the house, I think the issue there has been answered above ie. Its not our house.

peasant

That makes the picture a bit clearer:

The Husky is locked out the back, bored while the new pup gets mollycoddled and showered with attention inside.

No wonder he's acting the maggot when you finally give him some of your time.

How do these "introductions" work?

Husky gets let into the living room, puppy sitting on carpet and everybody standing around expecting them to "play nice" ?

That ain't gonna work ...you're clearly giving the pup preferrential treatment
while more or less ignoring the Husky. You shouting and screaming at him while he's trying to figure out the pup his own way doesn't help either. It just further elevates the pup, in his eyes a gross injustice ...after all he's got seniority, he should be allowed "pull rank" on the pup, instead you're putting him down with your every action.

I'd say between the two dogs, new baby and the living arrangements you've bitten off a bit more than you can chew at the moment.

I strongly recommend getting in professional help, pronto.
You and your wife need some good, sound advice how to cope with this situation and how to behave and act properly so that your dogs know what is what.

This advice CANNOT be given via the internet.

Your current situation is confused enough ...you all need ONE set of clear rules that you can all work and stick to.

peasant

Just to add:

If this situation is allowed to fester, it might possibly escalate to the point where the two dogs harm each other.

Also for the puppy the first few weeks in a new environement are its most formative and have quite some bearing on its future behaviour and development.

At the moment the situation is somewhat chaotic.

So, if you don't want to end up with a chaotic dog the size of a calf running around your place you really have to act now, as inconvenient it might seem.

I wish there was some "miracle hint" that i could give you, but as you have a series of interconnected issues to deal with, you really need to get professional advice from somebody who has seen the situation with their own two eyes.

Carb

peasant wrote:

That makes the picture a bit clearer:

The Husky is locked out the back, bored while the new pup gets mollycoddled and showered with attention inside.

No wonder he's acting the maggot when you finally give him some of your time.

How do these "introductions" work?

Husky gets let into the living room, puppy sitting on carpet and everybody standing around expecting them to "play nice" ?

That ain't gonna work ...you're clearly giving the pup preferrential treatment
while more or less ignoring the Husky. You shouting and screaming at him while he's trying to figure out the pup his own way doesn't help either. It just further elevates the pup, in his eyes a gross injustice ...after all he's got seniority, he should be allowed "pull rank" on the pup, instead you're putting him down with your every action.

I'd say between the two dogs, new baby and the living arrangements you've bitten off a bit more than you can chew at the moment.

I strongly recommend getting in professional help, pronto.
You and your wife need some good, sound advice how to cope with this situation and how to behave and act properly so that your dogs know what is what.

This advice CANNOT be given via the internet.

Your current situation is confused enough ...you all need ONE set of clear rules that you can all work and stick to.

Wheras I appreciate all comments and advice, I don't think there is any need for the dramatics.

1. Pup arrived 36 hours ago so. This problem did not start 36 hours ago.
2. The huskie does not want into the house and never has since he first moved outside.
3. The huskie hasn't been brought in and expected to behave when introduced to the pup. The pup has been let out to him, and even then, there hasn't been any shouting or screaming. He has been about other dogs before and seen other dogs getting attention
4. The huskie recieves more attention/sport/walks than any dog I know of. If anything, its probably part of the problem.
5. There is always somebody at the house such as my mother in-law/brother in-laws/ wife, so there is always something going on.

So the facts are, the new pup has nothing to do with the problem, and the new baby had nothing to do with the problem, as the child was about a couple of months before this started. The location probably has a part to play, but my concern is this ever increasing defiance, which I don't think all the freedom of living on a 100 acre farm would solve.

peasant

Ok ...let's look at he Husky only:

He is from a "difficult" breed, not your standard Labrador, rather aloof, energetic and not always co-operative, always questioning your authority ...and that's him on a good day.

Now add to that the fact that he is currently in his rebellious adolescent phase ...he doesn't have "good days" ...and will not have them for yet another while.

He needs a strong (loving) hand and lots of focussed attention and training.

Instead he gets a change of environement and circumstances.

So he rebells some more.

And now he gets "competition"

What do you expect him to do? Co-operate all of a sudden?

Me being so dramatic in my last post is because the whole situation is teetering on a knives edge and could become VERY dramatic very quickly.

To introduce a new pup to an existing dog in ideal situation you would want the following:

- The existing dog to to be settled and to be sure of itself and of its surroundings.

- The owner to be in full control over the existing dog

- The existing dog to take over a "nanny" role towards the pup, teaching it the house rules and some basic doggy behaviour.


Now, from what I understand from your description of the situation, none of the above is the case.


You have an existing dog that is slowly sliding out of your hands just as you are going through the critical phase of introducing a new pup.

In my reckoning the husky feels rather harshly done by and there is a possible danger that he might actually turn against the newcomer ...especially as you have no real control over him.

Keeping the two dogs separate will make the situation worse, as jealousy and rank issues will establish themselves.

Introducing the two dogs to each other obviously insn't working that well either.

You don't know what to do in this situation.

I don't know either, because I don't know your circumstances and how you handle the situation.

That's why I repeat the message: Get someone "in the know" in quickly to assess the situation and to give you some guidelines to work to.

"Normally", in a settled situation, introducing a new dog (puppy or older dog) is somawhat rattling the apple cart for a few days ...but not really a big deal.

But, as in your case, when you have a confused existing dog, a somewhat confused owner and a puppy that can't be anything but confused after just having had to leave its mother ....that's wayyyy too much confusion going round and a recipe for disaster.

At least one party (YOU) needs a clear haed and a clear plan of what they're supposed to be doing.

Advice from the internet is not going to provide that plan, I think.

A good trainer/ behaviourist should be able to help you.

mountainyman

peasant wrote:

As for one of those remote control correction thingys ...

Stay well clear. They are useless, pointless and cruel. (outlawed in some European countries) In the hands of 99.9% of all possible users they actually make a dog worse than it ever was before the so called "training aid" was used.

The dog won't understand it; it will just feel strange inexplicable pain. It can't connect the collar and its mistsake and the pain. You would be far better off to smack him (not advocating animal cruelty but with 'big breeds' a smack does no harm).

Carb

Ok, you nearly think the dog was my child as I'm going to start defending him now.

On the plus side, generally, when he listens, he knows when he has done wrong and when he's done right, so thats always a start.
The jumping up on people is worse when he realises that you are not going to play with him (he bashes you on the leg with one of his toys). Hopefully the company will decrease the amount of sport he looks from us.
After mauling the pup for 45 minutes, he was actually better on the lead last night as I think he had some of the energy burned off.

I think you picked me up wrong when I said he was very rough with the pup. I meant rough as in he kept knocking him over, and jumping on him. There was no growling or snapping of any sort from the Huskie, it was all sport. The problem is that I don't think the pup would be able to get him to stop if needed. My wife was letting the two of them together today, so I'll be interested to see how they got on, All I know is there was no sign of aggreesion last night.

I think for the next couple of days, I might take mountainyman's suggestion of tiring him more. So I'll take him for a three or four mile run for the next couple of evenings and see how we get on. (I'll probably suffer more for it). If I was to answer my own question, I would say that he has too much energy and this is causing a lot of the problem. If this doesn't work, I'll look for a river:D

peasant

OK ...overall that sounds a bit better and less dramatic:)

I'm still a bit worried about the Husky - Puppy situation though.

From my (limited) experience from introducing a puppy to first one and then two older dogs (we got three dogs now) I only know the roles reversed.

Even the most energetic, stubborn, strong, wild etc, etc older dog became a patient saint when the puppy was around. Allowing the pup to pull the tail, tear out chunks of fur, lie down and let the pup "win" almost every fight ...
...up to a certain point and a certain age, then roles got reversed again.

So our two older dogs have each "helped" the puppy to gain confidence and strength before teaching it "manners".

So, watch out that your Husky isn't bullying the pup from the start ...he probably doesn't realise what he will be up against once the St. Bernard is fully grown and can pay him back:D

peasant

OK ...overall that sounds a bit better and less dramatic:)

I'm still a bit worried about the Husky - Puppy situation though.

From my (limited) experience from introducing a puppy to first one and then two older dogs (we got three dogs now) I only know the roles reversed.

Even the most energetic, stubborn, strong, wild etc, etc older dog became a patient saint when the puppy was around. Allowing the pup to pull the tail, tear out chunks of fur, lie down and let the pup "win" almost every fight ...
...up to a certain point and a certain age, then roles got reversed again.

So our two older dogs have each "helped" the puppy to gain confidence and strength before teaching it "manners".

So, watch out that your Husky isn't bullying the pup from the start ...he probably doesn't realise what he will be up against once the St. Bernard is fully grown and can pay him back:D

Carb

peasant wrote:

So, watch out that your Husky isn't bullying the pup from the start ...he probably doesn't realise what he will be up against once the St. Bernard is fully grown and can pay him back:D

LOL:D

Sort of reminds me of a small mongrel we had that was been very wicked to the huskie when he was a pup. I overheard my father saying to him one day "you watch yourself boy, or he'll knock your f**king head of when he's older".

TBH, the huskie is loosing his winter coat at the moment and you can really see the puppy look in him now. I never expected him to be a father figure to the new pup, but I just wish he wasn't as rough, after all he is a very powerful dog. I don't think it is bullying, obviously thing are a little more tense at feeding time, but that's to be expected.

I'll try running the sh**e out of him for a couple of days and see if this has any impact. I was going to do this anyway before buying the St. Bernard (got the runners the week before last), so it's worth a try. I'll keep you posted. I'm offf to the fitness forum now for advise on curing aches and pains:rolleyes:

peasant

Remembered something else that might help ...

Maybe you need to change his food. Have a look at the Protein content of whatever you're feeding him.

Too much Protein and he's going to be about as calm and collected as a birthday party of five year olds on a sugar-high.

Unless he's pulling sleds all day, 20% Protein content in his food is plenty.

More than that is just excess energy that needs to be burned off somehow.

Carb

peasant wrote:

Remembered something else that might help ...

Maybe you need to change his food. Have a look at the Protein content of whatever you're feeding him.

Too much Protein and he's going to be about as calm and collected as a birthday party of five year olds on a sugar-high.

Unless he's pulling sleds all day, 20% Protein content in his food is plenty.

More than that is just excess energy that needs to be burned off somehow.

I'll check this evening. I'd be surprise though as it's a Redmills dry mix that the kennels where he was trained use. I would suspect that the last thing the'y want is hyper students. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Carb

Well it seems the extra exercise and the company/extra sport for the huskie is doing the job. He hasn't jumped on us once since the pup was left out in the garden with him and he hasn't bit/mouthed us once either. What is even more surprising is that he'll actually stand to be petted now, which is something he has hardly ever done since he was eight weeks old. It seems he is actulally trying to please us now that there is competition for our attention.

There is also a massive improvement on the lead. There is always a slight pressure on the end of the lead, which just seems to be in his nature, but the serious pulling and jumping has stopped.

In terms of the two dogs integrating, they seem to be getting on great. There is plenty of sport, but there are also plenty of quiet periods. Yesterday, because of the weather, they both lay together all day in the their shed.

Hopefully things continue like this.