The Institute

europerson

NADA wrote:

It's a school.

No, it's not. It's cold-hearted.

Fraggle Rocks

f®eak s&#169 wrote: »

That's such a load of bs. The application is what gets you the results.

I could have bought and read five books, revision or otherwise, on Leaving Cert Maths. You think doing that alone would get me more points? Nonsense.



If you're content with your school, why should it matter to you? The fact that the Institute ends up with many high achievers year on year must mean they're doing something right, hence it's reputation.

Of course there are going to be a bunch of people that think that the Institute is some magic building that will automatically get them high points. This is illogical and not the Institute's problem.

Well lets break it down a bit. Theres this kid who is willing to work but cant go to school and has none of the books. He does the LC. He fails miserably.
Then he goes to school. This costs money obviously, but he listens and does a lot better.
Then he buys the books he needs and studies very hard indeed. And lo and behold! His grades go up. Its only a minor point that these books cost money.
Then he goes for grinds, and again he's willing to work. These cost money, but by some miracle of god his grades go up! Astonishing!
Then he decides he'll go to the Institute (or any other private school for that matter) Now this cost mummy and daddy a lot of money but he's willing to work. He gets the best teachers, handouts,notes...and guess what? His grades go up.

If you're willing to work everyhting you do after that is buying grades. Simple as.

honru

Fraggle Rocks wrote:

Well lets break it down a bit. Theres this kid who is willing to work but cant go to school and has none of the books. He does the LC. He fails miserably.
Then he goes to school. This costs money obviously, but he listens and does a lot better.
Then he buys the books he needs and studies very hard indeed. And lo and behold! His grades go up. Its only a minor point that these books cost money.
Then he goes for grinds, and again he's willing to work. These cost money, but by some miracle of god his grades go up! Astonishing!
Then he decides he'll go to the Institute (or any other private school for that matter) Now this cost mummy and daddy a lot of money but he's willing to work. He gets the best teachers, handouts,notes...and guess what? His grades go up.

These are all hypothetical examples.

Fraggle Rocks wrote:

If you're willing to work everyhting you do after that is buying grades. Simple as.

No, that's called earning grades.

smemon

the bottom line is, money talks and the more you have, the more shut off from society you become.

we're all well off here, if we can post on message boards using broadband and laptops or home pc's, we can't complain.

the institute is the 'havard' of leaving cert, if you can cough up the cash, you'll have the people, books and surroundings you need to fulfill your potential.

it takes money to make money as they say. nobody can deny that the wealthier you are, the more opportunities you get.

Q.E.D

Fraggle Rocks

f®eak s&#169 wrote: »

These are all hypothetical examples.



No, that's called earning grades.

Earning grades through working and buying resources. And yes it is a hypothetical example, but one that is logical. You haven't really refuted the point I made.

honru

OK, so application and school books/Institute/grinds/etc. indirectly equals buying marks?

That would make more sense.

I'm an idealist, so I like to think that second-level education is more than simply getting a good Leaving Cert. With all these extra crutches however, it seems like the whole learning and enjoying aspect has been played down.

This is probably hypocritical of me, because I did go to the Institute. But with the great teachers there, their charisma made class memorable, even though the programme was in a heavily condensed form. During my time there, for the first time in years, I actually enjoyed going in to school.

So I do remember the Institute for other reasons than "buying marks". The atmosphere, the range of different people and the sound teachers really made it a unique place that I'm glad I was a part of.

Fraggle Rocks

f®eak s&#169 wrote: »

OK, so application and school books/Institute/grinds/etc. indirectly equals buying marks?

That would make more sense.

I'm an idealist, so I like to think that second-level education is more than simply getting a good Leaving Cert. With all these extra crutches however, it seems like the whole learning and enjoying aspect has been played down.

This is probably hypocritical of me, because I did go to the Institute. But with the great teachers there, their charisma made class memorable, even though the programme was in a heavily condensed form. During my time there, for the first time in years, I actually enjoyed going in to school.

So I do remember the Institute for other reasons than "buying marks". The atmosphere, the range of different people and the sound teachers really made it a unique place that I'm glad I was a part of.

Yeah thats what I was getting at. If you're not willing to work nothing will do you much good. But, if you are willing to work and you have access to better resources (which cost money) the better you will do.

And yeah while you no doubt enjoyed yourself there and there were many other positive aspects to it, I'm reckoning you went there primarily to get good marks?

Rockerette

how annoying are those photos of students from teh institute that are plastered all over the irish times every year?!


some of them have that annoying look about them.
basically look like clones of a few people in my year who's i'd love to slap back down to reality.


but of course you cant y'know, like judge people on appearances.
cos like, OMG, how unfair would that be?!?!?!?!
:rolleyes:

honru

Fraggle Rocks wrote:

And yeah while you no doubt enjoyed yourself there and there were many other positive aspects to it, I'm reckoning you went there primarily to get good marks?

Yeah, but I disliked my old school so a change looked inevitable. For a variety of reasons, Institute seemed to be the best choice. Now when I look back, I really can't think of many reasons why I would choose my old school over the Institute, and it was private.

JC 2K3

Firstly, on private schools: If there were no private schools I doubt there'd be a massive drop in Leaving Cert points. It all comes down to the fact that with private schools the rich/middle class are excluded from the rest of society and that's snobbery. I don't believe people do any better in private schools simply because the schools are better. They're not better. They do not have better teachers. What they have is students with parents who are pretty much guaranteed to care about them and encourage them to study and do well. If private education wasn't available and they had to mix with lower class people they wouldn't do worse. They'd have the same motivation from their parents and same ambitions etc.

Anyway, the Institute is different. It's not like a private school and I wouldn't be against it the same way I'd be against private schools(although I'm sure it would be possible to have a successful "state-run Institute"). It's somewhere for those who are bright but easily distracted, not fulfilling their potential in their school due to lack of motivation for some reason or those who feel that the want to be treated more like an adult and that they can handle their education responsibly.(Sadly it seems many intelligent yet ditsy people who seem to have ad it drilled into them that they must do medicine also flock there). It's basically a different approach to the LC and, while it's not for me I'd be for it and certainly not against it like I'd be against private schools.

I love my school though, public, and I'm doing fine. At the end of the day no matter how shít your teachers are you'll get what you deserve in the Leaving. I couldn't go to the Institute personally. I'd miss the personal relationships with my teachers, the occasional class where they just talk about current affairs, the occasional days off for school concerts etc. I could go on forever about how I love my school.....

Garret

JC 2K3 wrote:

They do not have better teachers.

don't be silly, they hire the best teachers they can get and don't have to accept the dregs like many public schools do

JC 2K3

Garret wrote:

don't be silly, they hire the best teachers they can get and don't have to accept the dregs like many public schools do

How? Every teacher has to apply and the department still pays the teachers so it's the same salary. The only way this would be possible would be if the best teachers only applied for private schools, which simply can't be true. That's basically saying the best teachers are all snobs...

And, contrary to popular belief, public schools actually do have a board of management that cares about the school, and they DO hire the best teachers that apply, so they do get the best teachers they can get. There's also "dregs" in private schools. It just happens, the selection process isn't flawless.

Fraggle Rocks

JC2K3 wrote:

the department still pays the teachers

If thats true then where does all the tuition money that the students pay go?

Garret

JC 2K3 wrote:

How? Every teacher has to apply and the department still pays the teachers so it's the same salary. The only way this would be possible would be if the best teachers only applied for private schools, which simply can't be true. That's basically saying the best teachers are all snobs...

And, contrary to popular belief, public schools actually do have a board of management that cares about the school, and they DO hire the best teachers that apply, so they do get the best teachers they can get. There's also "dregs" in private schools. It just happens, the selection process isn't flawless.

they get they best they can but its slim pickings.

a maths teacher once came to me for help with a question

an honours irish teacher often needs help from some students to translate irish passages

im guessing this doesnt happen in the Institute

both my Englsih and Irish teachers have said that we should get our hands on the notes from the Institute because its the best stuff you can get.

model

There are so many who have posted who are simply idiots. No worse or better way to put it. First of all, to those who say you "buy" your education by going to the Tute. Look up the definition of "buy". You see what Im saying? Oh, you dont, no surprise there. Basically, to buy would imply you are playing for something definite, ie there is no variation and it will remain the same for everyone who buys the product. In other words, you are saying that everyone who goes to the Tute, will get exactly the same thing.

Obviously incorrect. The Tute is like any other private school, except arguably with better teachers. Why knock the Tute? There are one or two people who go on about how poor people cant afford the same education. So what? In order for everyone to receive the same education, everyone would have to go to the same school. Obviously impossible.

The fact is, some schools are better and worse than others. Just because you cant afford it you go on and mock it. Denial people.

The Tute requires you to do hours of study in order to get high points, just like any other school.

I didnt expect my post to be this long, but some people are really annoying me with their ignorance.

Rockerette

Garret wrote:

both my Englsih and Irish teachers have said that we should get our hands on the notes from the Institute because its the best stuff you can get.

i got a copy of the 5 French Dossier thingies from teh institute, and well....
i thought they were complete bollox.

so much irrelavant material.
if you were to learn all that you'd go insane.


it scared the **** out of me when i looked them first

compared to my 13 minutes of a french oral today, those sheets were completely useless....
not that i learnt much from them... but well.. hhmmm..

stick to the Francais Oral book and you'll be flying!






oh and the dept. doesnt pay all teachers.
i know in our school, the school itself has to pay some teachers, cos they have over the "required" amount, so the dept. will only pay X amount of teachers, but we have over... so some of our fees go on that..

Rockerette

model wrote:

I didnt expect my post to be this long, but some people are really annoying me with their ignorance.

i love annoying people.. its so much fun.

JC 2K3

Fraggle Rocks wrote:

If thats true then where does all the tuition money that the students pay go?

Towards paying extra-curricular teachers, sports coaches etc. and for facilities such as swimming pools, sports halls etc.

Oh and profit to the management

Garret wrote:

they get they best they can but its slim pickings.

a maths teacher once came to me for help with a question

an honours irish teacher often needs help from some students to translate irish passages

im guessing this doesnt happen in the Institute

both my Englsih and Irish teachers have said that we should get our hands on the notes from the Institute because its the best stuff you can get.

I said in my first post that the Institute was different to other private schools. The Institute pays its teachers and receives no state funding.

You mentioned maths and Irish teachers. Irish teachers are apparently generally appauling across the board(I wouldn't know personally since I'm in an all Irish school). I'd say it'd be hard to find a good maths teacher also, but asking a good student for help with a question wouldn't be so bad, I doubt it was a simple concept, even the most advanced maths scholars can get stuck sometimes. People seem to have really varying opinions on what constitutes a good maths teacher though, I have an absolutely brilliant one, but I've heard people think he's rubbish(he moves pretty fast and leaves a lot of the work up to us).

Garret

im not saying that there is anything wrong with going to the institute. You're not buying your education, people who go to the institute still have to work hard for their points. just they do have to realise that they are getting a higher standard of teaching than most other places.

if you can afford to go then why not

model

Rockerette wrote:

i love annoying people.. its so much fun.

Yeah? Well unfortunately you fail to realise how, well to me atleast, you come across as someone with an IQ lower than 100, ie below average. You're posts are ridiculously immature and add nothing but irrelavent, you've guessed it, ****e.

Im laughing at you, and yes, I know you dont care, but all you've got is a gripe against the more intelligent and wealthy people that "generally" go to the Insitute. Get over it.

Rockerette

grrrr. let it all out there mr. model.



you've no idea what my IQ is. nor do you want to know, as you may feel a bit eeh.. hhmm. anyways.

and you're bang on, i dont care that you're laughing at me.

BUT

people take it all too serious, we all need to laugh.
and if its at me, well so be it.


hope you're having a good time.


"you've got is a gripe against the more intelligent and wealthy people" i find that comment VERY interesting, as you really know nothign about me...
- what points im aiming for
- or my "wealth".



dont be so quick to assume things sir.

Fraggle Rocks

model wrote:

Yeah? Well unfortunately you fail to realise how, well to me atleast, you come across as someone with an IQ lower than 100, ie below average. You're posts are ridiculously immature and add nothing but irrelavent, you've guessed it, ****e.

Im laughing at you, and yes, I know you dont care, but all you've got is a gripe against the more intelligent and wealthy people that "generally" go to the Insitute. Get over it.

* at least
* your
* irrelevant

You obviously didn't read the part of the thread where myself and JC2k3 agreed that you weren't directly buying your education, but indirectly.Nowhere was it argued that simply going to the Institute would instantly grant you high points. Oh you obviously seem to have forgotten that you can pay for,or buy, a service.
Also your agrument has some more flaws: it was stated nowhere that everyone should receive the same education. It was however suggested that everyone should receive the same standard of education.
Below average IQ? Hmmm...

smemon

my aim is to beat the institute's average score. i hate seeing people with 600 points or 585 in the newspapers.

if i got that, i'd refuse photographs as it's unfair on the lads who work their asses off to get 300 points and don't have the luxuries of grind teachers or private schools.

we're projecting the wrong image of education in this country by showing off the people who got 600. success doesnt mean getting 600 points.

it's like taking pictures of people with mansions and ferrari's. when the REAL workers are single mums with 2 kids, working full-time.

Kwekubo

smemon wrote:

my aim is to beat the institute's average score. i hate seeing people with 600 points or 585 in the newspapers.

if i got that, i'd refuse photographs as it's unfair on the lads who work their asses off to get 300 points and don't have the luxuries of grind teachers or private schools.

we're projecting the wrong image of education in this country by showing off the people who got 600. success doesnt mean getting 600 points.

it's like taking pictures of people with mansions and ferrari's. when the REAL workers are single mums with 2 kids, working full-time.

Woah now, calm down there. The reason pictures of people from the Institute are plastered over the papers especially the indo is because they have deep enough pockets to pay for bucketloads of advertising.

I can't fault your plan to bury the institute's average, though...

GretchenWieners

For the people saying that the Institute not having the best teachers, they do but for the teachers it comes at a price because they do not join ASTI, they are on contracts and they can easily be terminated. i know this because my uncle runs one of these types of schools like Bruce, The Institute etc so they can hire whoever they want really.

Rockerette

GretchenWieners wrote:

For the people saying that the Institute not having the best teachers, they do

cmon you cant really say that now.

im convinced i have the best history teacher in the entire country... without doubt!


just because the institute might want them, they dont necessarily always get them... there are wondeful teachers in a lot of other schools too

model

Fraggle Rocks wrote:

* at least
* your
* irrelevant

I will concede your point, as that's unlike me. However the excuse I will give is that it was quite late and I was tired. Still though, your point remains.

x_TC_x

Wow little did I know when starting this thread it would get so controversial lol x

Fraggle Rocks

model wrote:

I will concede your point. Thats unlike me, however the excuse I will give is that it was quite late and I was tired. Still though, your point remains.

*That's

:cool:

Rockerette

aaah stop being so pedantic Fraggle


(but isnt annoying people fun...... :rolleyes: )