Afghan court to execute man for converting to Christianity.

BrianD

mloc wrote:

So are you saying we should just accept this and not do anything about it?

How do you propose dealing with the problem? As I said history repeats itself except the cycles are getting shorter. Just get used to it, it will be somebody elses turn next to dish out the terror in the name of religion. Human kind has demonstrated that they continue to excel in this kind of behaviour.

Rather us than them mate.

Need I say anymore!

mloc

BrianD wrote:

With modern mass communications the disadvantaged world can see how good we have it at their expense.

I'm not entirely sure how you can justify that statement. I think it is perhaps a bit naive and fantastical to think that thier disadvantage is caused by our fortune.

BrianD

mloc wrote:

I'm not entirely sure how you can justify that statement. I think it is perhaps a bit naive and fantastical to think that thier disadvantage is caused by our fortune.

Do you mean fortune as in luck? Certainly there are parts of the world that have an environment more condusive to the well being and development of man. Perhaps the fertile plains of Europe as compared to the Sub-Shaharan regions? However, in the modern world we have the ability to address the inequality in the world. However, the first world appears to be committed to ensuring that the "developing" world stays that way through trade restrictions, tarriffs etc. So while their disadvantage may have been caused by many different factors their continuing 'disadvantage' is at our behest. We produce GM foods that can survive famine conditions but I don't hear of it going to Africa, we can produce medicines that can alleviate major illnesses but we withold them. At the same time we are ready to leap in with military clout to protect the raw materials that the developed world needs to survive. no value is added to these raw materials in the countries that they originate from. So I don't really see it as being that naive and fantastical that are enjoyment of life in the west is at the expense of others in the world.

Thank God I can have Fair Trade coffee so I don't really have to worry about it.

Anyway, I think we have deviated well off the original topic.

samb

samb wrote:

Most reasonable commentators would see the WAR ON IRAQ as a failure, including the majority of the american public. Was the war in Afghanistan also a failure?

No, it satiated the American public's need for vengance. It achieved its goal.

Boggle

Well I generally believe that the "western world" is pretty bereft of morals and values ... apart from the ones that are convenient.

There's no doubt that many people have very dubious morals but that does not means that the western world is any worse than anywhere else.

Muslims don't blindly follow some ancient text anymore than any other organised religion does (or is supposed to!).

This is relevent to any religion, not just the muslim faith. Needless to say it is just an opinion but I always use my own judgement to decide what is right or wrong rather than a bokk that, while written with the best intentions, was still written in a manner to be acceptable to the people of the time.

And I really don't understand where you got the last line from. I'm all for everyone practicing their own religion and accepting the religious ethos of the majority of the country where you reside.

I was replying to:

and any values we have been watered down by being 'poltically correct' whereas those of an Islamic persuasion seem to be very focused and principled

I took it (mistakenly I assume judging from your response) that you felt our willingness to change and allow others to practice any religion watered down our principles.

With modern mass communications the disadvantaged world can see how good we have it at their expense.

I'm unsure about that though. I pretty much believe that, while there are probably examples of where some countries have used their power to suppress weaker nations for their gain I don't necessarily believe you can blame all western countries for that. I don't remember Ireland ever having the force to suppress any nation...

BrianD

Boggle wrote:

I'm unsure about that though. I pretty much believe that, while there are probably examples of where some countries have used their power to suppress weaker nations for their gain I don't necessarily believe you can blame all western countries for that. I don't remember Ireland ever having the force to suppress any nation...

I am not referring to specific nations, I am referring to particular attitudes or traits that are widespread accross the developed world. This would include economic power, the ability to set tarrifs, quotas and trade blocks that impede development. Mass consumerism where someone must produce the goods cheaply etc. for others to profit. For example, if the value was added to coffee in the country of orgin I don't think we'd all be sipping on our lattes on the way to work. While Ireland as a state doesn't suppress other nations literally - our economic policies and actions as consumers do to varying extents.

fly_agaric

BrianD wrote:

religion is just a convenient tag to place on a larger problem of poverty and injustice.

Well, you just tagged the holocaust (or the whole of WW2?) as being about "killing people for their religion", didn't you?
So in return I'd say "poverty and injustice" aren't enough of an explanation for the problems between "muslims" and "the West" either.

BrianD wrote:

Religion is the opium of the poor and we in the affluent world don't need an opiate to relieve of us the misery of poverty.

So how do you explain the Christian fundies and their megachurches in the US, Saudia Arabia, and the fact that the bestest Al Qaeda terrorists were the spoilt-brat offspring of parents who fled to wealthy countries and made good?
I think one of the London bombers fathers had a business and a property portfolio ffs!
Why are some of the most dangerous religious bigots so rich if religion and poverty go hand in hand?

Or maybe you think the Muslim zealots who blow people up are like modern Robin Hoods fighting for the poor who give bombs instead of taking money?