I stopped watching the Chelsea game . . [scores included/mentioned]

Kingp35

dirkey_wynne wrote:

II think Chelsea fans give out that people give out about the diving, but realistically, Chelsea do it more often than most. I'm Utd fan, and I know we have our own who do it, and it bugs the fnck out of me. But I still don't think we do it half as often - Drogba is regularly down, Robben, Duff, Cole etc. And people can say it's only because they're top, but I don't think so. Mourinho has a history of it - his Porto team was the worst I've ever seen.

I totally agree with this. Fact of the matter is that Chelsea have more players that dive and do it more often than any other team in the PL therefor its perfectly valid that they get more abuse from football fans and the media because of it. I understand Lemlins point that other teams cheat to a certain degree as well but no other team compares to Chelsea on the diving front.

I really think this is something Mourinho instills in his side becase as dirkey_wynne said his Porto team were a disgrace as well. Anybody remember the UEFA Cup final against Celtic? That was just shocking.

Chelsea deserve all the bashing, they bring it on themselves and Drogba is by far the worst of the lot.

TheMonster

Jimboo_Jones wrote:

But the offence that they admit to breaking are totally different, and in my eyes at least, one of them is much worse than the other.

Thats your opinion. Drogab admitted to cheating. Cheating falls under bring the game into disrepute and I believe this is the same rule Keane was charged under.(It is)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/2326105.stm

therecklessone

dirkey_wynne wrote:

I have no issue with the Drogba handball. I think 90% of footballers would do it, in the goalscoring position like that. Defenders at times will try to foul forwards (look at Carvalho the other week, nearly taking jersey off his designated forward, incidentally that's just issue i can think of, not having a go at Chelsea before someone flips out, it's just an observation) and defenders will handball to stop the ball going into danger zones, if need be.

I do however have a problem with diving. I only saw the SWP against Newcastle episode at the weekend. That was a disgrace. And because it was a 2nd yellow, this can't be rescinded and the ban must stand. I think SWP should be banned, myself. It was disgraceful.

I don't understand this. Why is one form of cheating wrong (diving) while two other types (handball and deliberate fouling) aren't? All three are contrary to the rules of the game.

gracehopper

The worst display of diving i've ever seen was Porto v Celtic in the uefa cup final. I dont even support Celtic and i was enraged watching that match. It seems to be part of the make up of Mourinho's teams as Chelsea are hands down the worst in the league at it.
I'm not Chelsea bashing because they are tops at the moment I'm just pointing out that 2 teams managed by JM are prolific divers

okidoki987

I was at the match :mad:
It was terrible to watch.
City down to 10 men for the 2nd half and Chelsea could barly manage a shot.
It was interesting to hear all the "London" Chelsea supporters around me.
Everybody was moaning/complaining about Drogba and that was after he had scored the 2 goals! Didn't see the handball as it was down the other end of the pitch. When he was walking off holding his eye towards the end, the supporters were not happy with his behaviour or his play and he knew it.
Strange that Morinho has all the money he needs to buy some quality strikers and he ends up with Drogba and Crespo.
Imagine what Chelsea would be doing if they had Henry or Ronaldino or
Adriano or Rooney etc?

dirkey_wynne

therecklessone wrote:

I don't understand this. Why is one form of cheating wrong (diving) while two other types (handball and deliberate fouling) aren't? All three are contrary to the rules of the game.

His dive was to get a player sent off. When ball comes itno the position in which Drogba was in, instinct took over to make him handle. I can half understand it. I just hate diving, it sickens me.

Jimboo_Jones

TheMonster wrote:

Thats your opinion. Drogab admitted to cheating. Cheating falls under bring the game into disrepute and I believe this is the same rule Keane was charged under.(It is)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/2326105.stm

well if you would like the same punishment for trying to break someones leg, then I guess there is no point carrying on the conversation.

Ruskie4Rent

dirkey_wynne wrote:

His dive was to get a player sent off. When ball comes itno the position in which Drogba was in, instinct took over to make him handle. I can half understand it. I just hate diving, it sickens me.

Instinct? The amount of times he's been trying it, I can understand that. Maybe Mourinho should start beating him till he starts using his feet, like when left handed people were forced to write with thei right.

therecklessone

dirkey_wynne wrote:

His dive was to get a player sent off. When ball comes itno the position in which Drogba was in, instinct took over to make him handle. I can half understand it. I just hate diving, it sickens me.

I accept its a matter of degrees. I personally prefer a good old fashioned Chopper Harris foul to a Shearer elbow, but both are illegal.

Every attempt to gain an advantage by subverting the rules should be condemned tbh, to me there's equal dishonesty in winning a match with a handball (ask any English fan about Maradona) as there is with getting a player sent off by diving.

What if Drogba told you he dived instinctively, would that be ok?

Chucky the tree

gracehopper wrote:

It seems to be part of the make up of Mourinho's teams as Chelsea are hands down the worst in the league at it.
I'm not Chelsea bashing because they are tops at the moment I'm just pointing out that 2 teams managed by JM are prolific divers

Fergie told his players to "dive" in Europe. I am sure there are alot more managers that do this. Even players know this, European refs seem harshier then English refs, so you change the way you play accordinly.


Theres a very fine line to professionalism and cheating. Plenty of time were a player has commited a foul on purpose to stop an attack, always here the commentator say "he'll take a yellow for that" or something similiar, would that not be cheating?

WHat did people expect drogba to do in the handball situation? Every premiership striker would of done the excact same as him.

in saying that though, 2 weeks ago in the Roma Messina game roma were 1-0 and got a second goal from a mardonna-esqu handball, linesmen and ref missed it. Then tipped off again, but then the player turned around and told the ref he handballed it. Goal was taken away, very strange.

Ruskie4Rent

Chucky the tree wrote:

WHat did people expect drogba to do in the handball situation? Every premiership striker would of done the excact same as him.

It seemed to me that he could of avoided it. We know he is not the £20+ million player that's he's cracked up to be, but with all due respect he should've been able to put that chance away without using his hand. I'm pretty sure any other player could've too.

Blackjack

Have to laugh at the headline from Ireland.com's breaking news -

"Mourinho dives-in to defend Drogba"

PHB

What annoys me, and most people about Chelsea, is their attitude.

Everybody understands that diving and 'cheating' goes on to some extent within the game, and we accept it. We would want our strikers to do the same, most of us anyway.

Mourinho, is a team dived, would call them total cheats and complain about it non-stop. See Messi, who didn't even dive. He has complete double standerds and is doing it just to create a stir to detract attention from the team's preformance as a whole. He complains about teams who park the bus infront of their goal, but in no way gets annoyed at chelsea's defensive destructive football.
This is what annoys me about him and what annoys me about Wenger. They know its part of the game, but if someone does it to them, god help them. Cheaters, the lot of them

iregk

PHB wrote:

What annoys me, and most people about Chelsea, is their attitude.

Everybody understands that diving and 'cheating' goes on to some extent within the game, and we accept it. We would want our strikers to do the same, most of us anyway.

Mourinho, is a team dived, would call them total cheats and complain about it non-stop. See Messi, who didn't even dive. He has complete double standerds and is doing it just to create a stir to detract attention from the team's preformance as a whole. He complains about teams who park the bus infront of their goal, but in no way gets annoyed at chelsea's defensive destructive football.
This is what annoys me about him and what annoys me about Wenger. They know its part of the game, but if someone does it to them, god help them. Cheaters, the lot of them

Well done. The number one gift of a good manager is deflecting attention. To avoid people looking where you don't want them to get them to look somewhere else. Its a gift and only few in england are good at it.

On the other hand (pardon the pun) we know Drogba is a cheat. Saying this as a Chelsea fan but its true. Chelsea fans hate him for it as well. Did nobody else hear the Chelsea fans booing and jeering him towards the end of the game. The abuse that he recieved from the fans walking off the pitch with his "eye injury" was a homecoming to Drogba.

The fact that after the game Lamps and Terry squared up to Drogba in the dressing room and told him to cut it out or get out also speaks volumes for how his own team mates feel about it too.

Of course jose is going to defend him, don't all managers do this. When was the last time you heard Fergie, Wenger or Rafa come out in an interview and say yes my player dived and im not happy about that. Never they all defend their players, or in Wenger's case just not see the incident.

dirkey_wynne

iregk wrote:

The fact that after the game Lamps and Terry squared up to Drogba in the dressing room and told him to cut it out or get out also speaks volumes for how his own team mates feel about it too.

Did they? What's your source on this? That's great news if it's true. I think something does have to be done about diving, it's going beyond a joke. There's barely a game nowadays without someone diving.

iregk

dirkey_wynne wrote:

Did they? What's your source on this? That's great news if it's true. I think something does have to be done about diving, it's going beyond a joke. There's barely a game nowadays without someone diving.

It was in one of the papers yesterday. Give me a minute and I'll post a link if I can find one.

WhiteWashMan

PHB wrote:

They know its part of the game, but if someone does it to them, god help them. Cheaters, the lot of them

*cough* man utd losing and blaming every other person on the earth and several extra terrestrial reasons instead of saying they got beaten fair and square, smell the hypocracy*cough*

this forum, and its regulars, never fail to make me smile in a really smug way.

Ardent

iregk wrote:

"The fact that after the game Lamps and Terry squared up to Drogba in the dressing room and told him to cut it out or get out also speaks volumes for how his own team mates feel about it too."

It was in one of the papers yesterday. Give me a minute and I'll post a link if I can find one.

That's bullsh*t, the whole thing smacks of PR. Let me guess, a London based rag published this story?

Drogba made a fool of himself by admitting to diving on national TV. Maybe there were translation issues during the interview but, regardless, he didn't come across as the brightest of people. And to admit to the handball and to diving in general, with an attitude of "so?".....well I'm not surprised the club is working overtime on damage limitation.

PHB

Yep, its Fergie deflecting attention. I don't mind that, it works for the team. When was the last time you heard Fergie come out and say he lost because the other team were cheating or diving, or parked a bus in front of their goal. Fergie looks for deflections due to crazy reasons, but its very rarely due to the other club that he blames, its normally something internal. [On big games however he tends to blame the other team if he feels he was justly cheated out of the win]
Thats the difference.

Fergie used to foster and encourage the hatred towards United.
Mourinho actually creates the hatred on purpose

Ardent

iregk wrote:

Well done. The number one gift of a good manager is deflecting attention. To avoid people looking where you don't want them to get them to look somewhere else. Its a gift and only few in england are good at it.

Oh Mourinho is special when it comes to deflecting attention alright. But it's more to do with deflecting attention from his own shortcomings rather than that of his team (although the two quite likely go hand in hand). The first leg against Barca for example, where he was comprehensively outwitted by Rikjaard. Would he give the other team or manager credit or, god forbid, even acknowledge the result? No, the game "was not pure". There was only 25 minutes or so of a game apparently. Typical Mourinho.

Mourinho encourages diving and cheating, I'm convinced of it. His Porto team were renowned for it and now his Chelsea players are in hot water every other week over it.

WhiteWashMan

PHB wrote:

.

Fergie used to foster and encourage the hatred towards United.
Mourinho actually creates the hatred on purpose

ive read those two lines a few times, and i cant wqquite understand the difference youre making. if youre trying to make one.

they both say the same thing.

on another note, im still wondering if Jm came out and said the things that Benitez said about spurs and defoe, would he have been lynched and had everyone on his back about that?
i still think benitez was out of order, and yet no one says boo about it.

PHB

Fergie harnesses the hatred towards united explains it better. He doesn't actively set out to make them hated, but used the hatred to his advantage.

Mourinho on the other hand, actually actively creates the hatred then uses it to his advantage.

Hobart

WhiteWashMan wrote:

ive read those two lines a few times, and i cant wqquite understand the difference youre making. if youre trying to make one.

they both say the same thing.

Welcome to the world of PHB.

on another note, im still wondering if Jm came out and said the things that Benitez said about spurs and defoe, would he have been lynched and had everyone on his back about that?
i still think benitez was out of order, and yet no one says boo about it.

My take on it, and yes it is somewhat clouded as I'm a liverpool fan, is that he was simple being literal. His "desperate" comment was as it was meant, i.e. eager. For me Rafa is a breath of fresh air in the prem as he seems the straighest and most down to earth of all the top managers. There's bugger all spin or crap with him.

Ardent

WhiteWashMan wrote:

on another note, im still wondering if Jm came out and said the things that Benitez said about spurs and defoe, would he have been lynched and had everyone on his back about that?
i still think benitez was out of order, and yet no one says boo about it.

I think that's because everyone realises that Benitez is merely exposing the shenanigans behind the scenes. He is basically saying "cease and desist" in the only language Spurs seem to understand. I'm sure he can prove his allegation if it came to that, why else would he say such a thing?

WhiteWashMan

Ardent wrote:

I think that's because everyone realises that Benitez is merely exposing the shenanigans behind the scenes.

what shenanigans are these. please tell me, im 'desperate' to know. amazing how liverpool fans seem to know what their manager is talking about when no on e else does.

Ardent wrote:

. He is basically saying "cease and desist" in the only language Spurs seem to understand.

cease and desist what exactly?

that cisse's agent keeps linking him with spurs?

Ardent wrote:

II'm sure he can prove his allegation if it came to that, why else would he say such a thing?

oh, you mean you actually havent got a clue what he is talking about?

im glad to see your allegence to liverpool is so strong that you feel your manager is above reproach for his words, however, i still fail to see why his words go unnoticed in the grand scheme of things, and Mourinho's dont.

WhiteWashMan

besides, worse case of tapping up ive seen from liverpool in quite some time. im sure liverpool will be exposed for these 'shenanigans' sooner rather than later. trying to unsettle our players. its a disgrace.

iregk

Ardent wrote:

That's bullsh*t, the whole thing smacks of PR. Let me guess, a London based rag published this story?

Drogba made a fool of himself by admitting to diving on national TV. Maybe there were translation issues during the interview but, regardless, he didn't come across as the brightest of people. And to admit to the handball and to diving in general, with an attitude of "so?".....well I'm not surprised the club is working overtime on damage limitation.

Of course it is bullsh*t sorry Ardent. I bow to your superior inside knowledge on the subject. It wasn't a London rag at all, actually an Irish paper.

Its common knowledge thought that Drogba is not well liked in the team and that the english lads don't really get on with him. This has been bantering about the Chelsea fan sites for the entire season!!! But hey, being a Chelsea fan going onto such sites I know nothing of what I'm talking about. You obviously know a lot more than I do as I'm sure the Liverpool fan sites have a lot more info than the Chelsea ones do on the subject.

Of course the club is working over time on damage limitation what club wouldn't? I was watching the interview he gave and when he came out with that corker "sometimes I dive sometimes I stay up" without a slight trace of remorse in his tone I thought: "christ Didier what have you just said!"

I'm sure many were thinking the same? Personally I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him leave the bridge in the summer. The Chelsea fans don't like him, most of the players don't like him and he is finally for all his slowness, learning this fact.

Davei141

WhiteWashMan wrote:

besides, worse case of tapping up ive seen from liverpool in quite some time. im sure liverpool will be exposed for these 'shenanigans' sooner rather than later. trying to unsettle our players. its a disgrace.

As opposed to "cisse to spurs" every week. Looks like spurs are getting his brother to do the dirty work.

Hobart

WhiteWashMan wrote:

besides, worse case of tapping up ive seen from liverpool in quite some time. im sure liverpool will be exposed for these 'shenanigans' sooner rather than later. trying to unsettle our players. its a disgrace.

Tapping up? Now you are just being hysterical, there is no tapping up, going on.

dirkey_wynne

Davei141 wrote:

As opposed to "cisse to spurs" every week. Looks like spurs are getting his brother to do the dirty work.

This is priceless. So Rafa comes out, and literally says it in an interview, and he's faultless, blameless. But Spurs are getting his brother to do the dirty work? Case closed, that would hold up in court I'd say.

WhiteWashMan

dirkey_wynne wrote:

This is priceless. So Rafa comes out, and literally says it in an interview, and he's faultless, blameless. But Spurs are getting his brother to do the dirty work? Case closed, that would hold up in court I'd say.

indeed.
it appears someone here is on my wavelength today....

hobart, my post was meant to be ironic. its ok for a liverpool supporter to come out with something along the lines of what i said, but when i say it, its hysterical.
thats exactly my point. its utter rubbish.

spurs do not have an interest in cisse. they looked at him briefly in jan because we wanted a loan player to cover for mido when he was at the ACN. thats it. period.

if his agent comes out continually with some rubbish, i hardly feel that spurs can be to blame. perhpas benitez needs to control his players and their agents a bit better instead of some silly remarks about players at other clubs. i mean seriously, first i have heard of defoe being touted about the premiership.
but hey, if his memory is so good and professional, then so be it.

funny how a lot of people feel that defoe would be good for liverpool though...

Ardent

WhiteWashMan wrote:

what shenanigans are these. please tell me, im 'desperate' to know. amazing how liverpool fans seem to know what their manager is talking about when no on e else does.

First off, are you a Spurs fan? Just wondering where the passionate defence is coming from. I have no interest in getting into a slagging match, I'm just going to point to facts and give my opinion on them.

Shenanigans.
It seemed there for a while that every other week there would be a news story linking Cisse to Spurs and Defoe to Liverpool. Then you get Cisse's agent coming out recently saying that Spurs had been in dialogue with the player and they were expected to resume talks at some point. It seems to me that, for whatever reason, Spurs are using their friends in the London media to link Cisse to the club and Defoe away from the club. They even went so far as to fuel the story further by actually contacting Cisse's agent last January at a point when it would have been impossible to the player to accept the offer at such a late stage.

Benitez has since come out to draw a line in the sand over the whole affair - he doesn't want his player unsettled and he is not interested in Defoe. He has also had to call Levy's bluff on the whole affair, stating that Levy doesn't remember what he has been saying to agents (Cisse's agent in this case).

cease and desist what exactly?

All of the above.

that cisse's agent keeps linking him with spurs?

That's your way of looking at it.

oh, you mean you actually havent got a clue what he is talking about?

im glad to see your allegence to liverpool is so strong that you feel your manager is above reproach for his words, however, i still fail to see why his words go unnoticed in the grand scheme of things, and Mourinho's dont.

I don't claim to know the intricate details of what's going on but I can piece things together, just as you can for yourself, and believe rightly or wrongly what I think is going on.

Hobart

WhiteWashMan wrote:

indeed.
it appears someone here is on my wavelength today....

hobart, my post was meant to be ironic. its ok for a liverpool supporter to come out with something along the lines of what i said, but when i say it, its hysterical.
thats exactly my point. its utter rubbish.

I missed the irony bit tbh. I don't think it's ok (or correct) for any supporter to come out with any of this, and expect to be taken seriously (look at the knots some have been tying themselves in with the he hates this and he brings hate type rubbish).

I still don't get your point though. Rafa comes out and says it as he see's it, and yet he is getting away with something? What exactly is he getting away with?

edit** On Ardents post, I would disagree with one aspect. I do think Liverpool are interested in Defoe, most Liverpool based fora have been linking him with Liverpool for some months now, it looks like he is out of favor with MJ at the moment, and probably won't make Sven's squad, this might push him out of London onto pastures anew.

dirkey_wynne

Hobart wrote:

I missed the irony bit tbh. I don't think it's ok (or correct) for any supporter to come out with any of this, and expect to be taken seriously (look at the knots some have been tying themselves in with the he hates this and he brings hate type rubbish).

I still don't get your point though. Rafa comes out and says it as he see's it, and yet he is getting away with something? What exactly is he getting away with?

edit** On Ardents post, I would disagree with one aspect. I do think Liverpool are interested in Defoe, most Liverpool based fora have been linking him with Liverpool for some months now, it looks like he is out of favor with MJ at the moment, and probably won't make Sven's squad, this might push him out of London onto pastures anew.

I have to say, if Mourinho came out and said what Rafa said, I sincerely doubt you'd be saying he "says it as he sees it." In my opinion it's an attempt to unsettle a player. It has nothing to do with saying it as he sees it.

Hobart

dirkey_wynne wrote:

I have to say, if Mourinho came out and said what Rafa said, I sincerely doubt you'd be saying he "says it as he sees it." In my opinion it's an attempt to unsettle a player. It has nothing to do with saying it as he sees it.

I would probably agrre with you there (in so far as Jose V Rafa), however look at the 2 managers track records. Jose is a wind up merchant, Rafa has been fairly straight in his dealings with other teams and the press (imo). you are not comparing like with like.

As for unsettling a player, it's a WC year, Defoe is on the bench, there's speculation on the web and in all the sports press about his future, Rafa *may* be adding to this, but the player is fairly ubnsettled as he stands, imo.

Ardent

If Liverpool sign Defoe this summer it'll be a first for world football where the manager of the buying club uses reverse psychology on the selling club to get his man.

Come on folks, open your eyes - Benitez is effectively saying that Spurs have been linking Defoe to other clubs so much lately that they must be desperate to sell him. And you don't say something like that unless you have some proof at hand.

iregk

I have to agree with previous comments. If it was Jose you'd be shouting from the roof tops how arrogant he is and that he is tapping up another player etc...

But in this case we are talking about Rafa, the demi god of football who can do no wrong and only says what he sees. Funny the difference isn't it?

I love the way in this forum as well that Rafa can say something and of course he must have proof why else would he say it, where as Jose doesn't have any proof he is just arrogant and self obsessed!!!

Did nobody watch Spanish footie before Rafa came to Liverpool? Watch the season when Valencia won the title and you will see how "clean" your manager is. Jose and Rafa are two perfect wind up merchants. If Liverpool get to within reach of the title you will see what I mean, the real Rafa will come out!

TheMonster

Facts as I see it.
Rafa mentioned Defoe(this cannot be denied)
No one at Spurs has ever mentioned Cisse(His agent has done alll the talking)

Only 1 of the clubs cab be accused of unsettling a player based on the facts we have.

DaBreno

WhiteWashMan wrote:

funny how a lot of people feel that defoe would be good for liverpool though...

I take it you dont rate him? Ive always thought he's a great footballer, never seems to score a bad goal. A massive imrovement on Cisse anyway.

Ardent

TheMonster wrote:

Facts as I see it.
Rafa mentioned Defoe(this cannot be denied)
No one at Spurs has ever mentioned Cisse(His agent has done alll the talking)

Only 1 of the clubs cab be accused of unsettling a player based on the facts we have.

Here's some more facts for you to visualise:

1) Liverpool have never contacted Defoe.
2) Spurs had held negotiations with Cisse's agent.

But because Benitez makes an outburst against Spurs and mentions Defoe and Cisse, it's a ploy to sign the Defoe? Obviously very subtle, devious work by Rafa.

WhiteWashMan

not at all.
i like him as a player and i want him to stay at spurs.

i just find it humourous that people keep saying that its a fact that spurs have been trying to sign cisse. i have yet to see this proof.

ardent wrote:

Come on folks, open your eyes - Benitez is effectively saying that Spurs have been linking Defoe to other clubs so much lately that they must be desperate to sell him. And you don't say something like that unless you have some proof at hand.

unless its not benetiz, in which case its ok. since he was so strong in coming out with what he says, im surprised he didnt come out with this 'evidence' you keep insisting he has.

hobart wrote:

I still don't get your point though. Rafa comes out and says it as he see's it, and yet he is getting away with something? What exactly is he getting away with?

the fact that there has been an outburst by a manager and nothing is said, yet if it was murinho, it would have been jumped on by all the usual bandwagon hoppers.

ardent wrote:

I'm just going to point to facts

then stick to the facts.

there are no facts with spurs trying to sell defoe, or of spurs trying to buy cisse.
those are the facts.

now, go away and work with them.

ardent wrote:

That's your way of looking at it.

well, since its cisse's agent that keeps talking to the press about it, and not anyone from spurs or liverpool, what exactly are you talking about?

again, look at the facts, look at who is talking, and then go back and either reassess your thoughts, or just go away.
youre basing all of your opinion on wrong facts, and even though i keep pointing this out, you still keep seem to go back to them.
if thats wha tyo uwant to do, then fine, but if you are going to use 'facts' as an excuse from now on, then id be happier if you linked your 'facts' to hard proof, rather than imaginary things.

WhiteWashMan

Ardent wrote:

Here's some more facts for you to visualise:

1) Liverpool have never contacted Defoe.
2) Spurs had held negotiations with Cisse's agent.

But because Benitez makes an outburst against Spurs and mentions Defoe and Cisse, it's a ploy to sign the Defoe? Obviously very subtle, devious work by Rafa.

again, point out the facts here.
i want evidence.
you have an agent claiming hes had talks.

youve had the spurs chariman and the manager both claiming they are not interested. if there was a call in january asking after the availability of the player on loan, i would hardly call that negotiation.


come on, stay with us in the 'real world' will you.

TheMonster

Ardent wrote:

Here's some more facts for you to visualise:

1) Liverpool have never contacted Defoe.
2) Spurs had held negotiations with Cisse's agent.

But because Benitez makes an outburst against Spurs and mentions Defoe and Cisse, it's a ploy to sign the Defoe? Obviously very subtle, devious work by Rafa.

1. True - no one ever said they did
2. According to Cisses agent - no proof therefore not fact.

Hobart

WhiteWashMan wrote:

the fact that there has been an outburst by a manager and nothing is said, yet if it was murinho, it would have been jumped on by all the usual bandwagon hoppers.

So he's guilty of having an outburst, and your hopping up and down because he is getting away with it. :rolleyes:

Up against the wall with him I say.

Ardent

WhiteWashMan wrote:

again, point out the facts here.
i want evidence.
you have an agent claiming hes had talks.

youve had the spurs chariman and the manager both claiming they are not interested. if there was a call in january asking after the availability of the player on loan, i would hardly call that negotiation.


come on, stay with us in the 'real world' will you.

How many times has Cisse been linked with Spurs this season? I mean seriously? It's every other week as I have already said.

Cisse's agent:

"I don't believe the club will be against his departure if they can get €10 (£6.9 million) or €14 million. (£9.7 million) Next summer, Liverpool will need to sell to be able to buy. We know Tottenham is attracted.

"Last winter, they already tried to settle the transfer. On January 31 at 3 pm they contacted us. We didn't want it, a few hours before the end of the winter transfer window.

"What would have happened if we had started to try to make the transfer and it would have failed in the last minutes? Djibril would have endured a difficult end to the season.

"But the contacts should be renewed in the summer, and Djibril is really attracted. Tottenham is an improving club, which can offer him more playing time."

Martin Jol:

"I can be honest about it. Everybody knows we were looking to get someone in on loan last January.
"Of course all the names were there, we have lists. Somebody will have mentioned him. But nothing came of all the other players on the list and I made a decision we would be fine with Mido, Robbie Keane and Jermain Defoe. It has turned out to be fine.
"But as for Cisse for next season - there is no truth in it."

Rafa on Defoe:

" I have a clear idea they are desparate for selling Defoe and are trying to sell Defoe, they always use Cisse in the middle i dont know why but its not our problem. We are thinking about our players i dont need to talk with him(Cisse). he is our player he is working hard, they always talk about him when they talk about Defoe. Maybe as i said before they are desparate to sell Defoe and want to do something. At this moment i am happy with my strikers"

Rafa calling Levy's bluff:

"The problem is that the Tottenham chairman is not professional, but I am professional.

"If you read in the papers last month you can see who first started talking about Cisse, who started talking about Defoe and Saha.

"The problem is I have a good memory and he cannot remember when he talks with agents about these things. But I can remember and I have talked to agents and they tell me what has been said.

"He talks with the agents and afterwards he cannot remember, but I remember because I am professional and he is not professional.

"I talk with agents and they tell me a lot of things, but he cannot remember what was said.

"He must think about what he said to agents. That is all I want to say, it is very clear."

Rick Parry, Liverpool chairman, on Radio 5:

Radio5: Rick a couple of final points. Spurs got a bit irritated this week when Benitez made comments about Defoe. Can you knock on the head this morning that Liverpool are interested in signing Defoe?

Rick: I think that wasn't the comment at all Gary. I think we were irritated about the comments about Cisse. That was the issue. We are in dialogue with Spurs and I think it's an episode we want to put behind us and try to move on and I'm sure we'll do that. But I think at the end of the day they're making the point that they're not interested in our player and we're not interested in their player. I think we'll resolve that one.

It's pretty clear what's been going on. Why doesn't Levy make a formal complaint to the FA if what Rafa's says has no foundation?

TheMonster

Ardent wrote:

How many times has Cisse been linked with Spurs this season? I mean seriously? It's every other week as I have already said.

Cisse's agent:


Martin Jol:


Rafa:


It's pretty clear what's been going on. Why doesn't Levy make a formal complaint to the FA if what Rafa's says has no foundation?

Spurs tried to sign Cisse on loan - that is common knowledge. The rest is crap from Cisses's agent(Not Spurs) trying to get him a move.

Show me something Spurs did wrong.

Benitez clearly said Defoe wants to leave Spurs. This can very easily be construed as unsettling a player.

No take off the red tinted glasses and admit
1. Benitez could be seen as trying to unsettle Defoe
2. Spurs have done nothing wrong.

Ardent

TheMonster wrote:

2. According to Cisses agent - no proof therefore not fact.

I know you're a Man Utd fan and I think you're on a wind-up mission so I'm not going to humour you with a reply to that.

Ardent

TheMonster wrote:

Spurs tried to sign Cisse on loan - that is common knowledge. The rest is crap from Cisses's agent(Not Spurs) trying to get him a move.

Show me something Spurs did wrong.

Benitez clearly said Defoe wants to leave Spurs. This can very easily be construed as unsettling a player.

No take off the red tinted glasses and admit
1. Benitez could be seen as trying to unsettle Defoe
2. Spurs have done nothing wrong.

What part of "they are always trying to use Cisse in the middle" and "I am happy with my strikers" in his statement regarding Defoe do you not understand?

TheMonster

Ardent wrote:

I know you're a Man Utd fan and I think you're on a wind-up mission so I'm not going to humour you with a reply to that.

It was a serious point. An agent saying they have been in discussion does not factually prove anything.

TheMonster

Ardent wrote:

What part of "they are always trying to use Cisse in the middle" and "I am happy with my strikers" in his statement regarding Defoe do you not understand?

Show me proof of Spurs doing anything wrong - all you can show is
1 What Benitez said
2 What Cisses agent said